Nitrate Issue

[Scuba Oz]

Ok, as you know I am new to this reef stuff, So I have one heck of a question.

1) I have read a million times on RC to get rid of the "bio material"

A) How come every LFS and friend has this "bio material" and have the BEST looking corals I have ever seen? AND they have had the SAME corals for years not weeks or months!!!!!!!!!!!!

2) They all use this forbidden "Oceananic Salt"

B) They have NO algea break outs, No ammonia when mixed, no CRAP whatso ever!!

3) They DONT use Salifert test kits, and when I bring MY SALIFERT kits over they read the same, and to be fair in some occasions close! (FAST test) (Hagen) (and belive it or not those test strips) are dead on, the reast not even close.

So, what is the deal here?? I have read until my eyes are blurry, and it sounds like most of it is just malarky, You like this, you like that, well is there any proof why you bash this and bash that!!

NOT from my hours on this forum!!!!! How many people like CPR Bak Paks verus AquaCRemora's. I bet we could have a 100 page debate over this.

I think we BASH (yes "we" I belong here) to many vendors that DONT subscribe here, there are MANY products that are good, many ideas that are GREAT, why do we bash one from the other? I started looking, and found that the ones we BASH dont advertise here, or DONT want too!! weird!!!!

Look I am in NO WAy bashing RC. I love this site, and all it has taught me. The threads are great ect, But has anyone ever thought like I have now? Come on.

[parliament28]

So what does this have to do with a nitrate issue?

In all due respect, a lot of the people that recommend these things are the best of the best in reefkeeping. Take a look at the tanks of the people who are recommending these things to you. Some just regurgitate information that they've read, but almost all of these recommendations are based on experience, which in the end is all we have to go on.

Your LFS might have a very good reefkeeper maintaining it, test kits aren't the only way to figure out what's going on in your tank. Some can look and see whats going on based on the look of their corals. There's something to be said for that too.

[Scuba Oz]

Thats what I am looking at, Experience. All the ones with it have these bio-materials and all is well.

Granted I went off on a little tangent there, I am sorry. I got on a roll there, and I know I am not the only one

[CrystalAZ]

1) I have read a million times on RC to get rid of the "bio material"

A) How come every LFS and friend has this "bio material" and have the BEST looking corals I have ever seen? AND they have had the SAME corals for years not weeks or months!!!!!!!!!!!!

Because the bioballs can cause buildup of nitrates which can cause problems in the tank. Of course, you CAN have a successful tank with them. Otherwise they wouldn't make them and NOBODY would buy them.

2) They all use this forbidden "Oceananic Salt" B) They have NO algea break outs, No ammonia when mixed, no CRAP whatso ever!!

MOST people who use Oceanic do so with no problems. But lately a larger than normal number of people are reporting problems with it. If you use it, everything will likely be fine. It's up to you whether to take the risk or not.

3) They DONT use Salifert test kits, and when I bring MY SALIFERT kits over they read the same, and to be fair in some occasions close! (FAST test) (Hagen) (and belive it or not those test strips) are dead on, the reast not even close.

Salifert has a proven track record as a very reliable test kit series. This doesn't mean others are bad... just that Salifert is good. If another one works for you, speak up when a newbie is asking for recommendations. :)

I think we BASH (yes "we" I belong here) to many vendors that DONT subscribe here, there are MANY products that are good, many ideas that are GREAT, why do we bash one from the other?

It doesn't have anything to do with whether a vendor is a sponsor or not. We all listen to each others' experiences, and when you hear enough people who lose their tanks to Rios for example, you want to avoid Rios and you want to help newbies avoid Rios as well.

I for the most part don't even know who is or isn't a sponsor. But I recommend products that I consistently hear good things about, and don't recommend the ones I always hear negative things about. That's all there is to that.

Crystal

[onecrzyboi4u]

ok.. do you really know whats behind the tanks? do you really know what all there usin? because i know most lfs make things look real easy to get people intrested in something.. ( say for me i was a sucker ) .. i always wanted a saltwater tank but was scared to try cos i heard they was so hard to keep .. well my lfs was like no your hardest part is the first month, blah blah blah.. well i did it.. (not sayin i regret it i love my fish) altho.. i am now trying to find me a good lighting system for my tank. because i'm wanting to keep a anemone.. but you know i aked my lfs if my lighting i had was good before purchasin a anemone.. and they said yes over and over.. and actually told me not to believe what i read or hear online..sooooo.. the point i'm trying to get across is do you think maybe some of the things ur seein is for show?

[hammbo]

If by bio material you mean biological filtration, then it is only needed in non-reef (fish only) salt water systems. In a reef system, the live rock and sand perform all the biological filtration needed.

Most stores keep the fish, invertebrates, and live rock in separate systems. That requires the systems to have bio filters. Also, the systems can be set up to treat disease and parasites. Often, low salinity and chemicals are part of the system.

[Scuba Oz]

CrystalAZ
Yes I know that it could cause a batriea nitrate fatritory. But after 5 years!!!!!! makes me wonder. I have known this man for a long time, nothing has changed. Same Boi media ect.....

[Scuba Oz]

Originally posted by hammbo
If by bio material you mean biological filtration, then it is only needed in non-reef (fish only) salt water systems. In a reef system, the live rock and sand perform all the biological filtration needed.

Most stores keep the fish, invertebrates, and live rock in separate systems. That requires the systems to have bio filters. Also, the systems can be set up to treat disease and parasites. Often, low salinity and chemicals are part of the system.

As I said he has corals, and they are thriving

[TGBrown]

How many gallons of water does he have in comparison to those LFS's you're talking about?

[Scuba Oz]

Originally posted by FlashPoint
How many gallons of water does he have in comparison to those LFS's you're talking about?

Beate the hell out of me, he has a 240g, 175 bow, 90 bow and a 30g

[km133688]

Keeping 50 gallons of marine tank seems quite different to me from keeping 5000 gallons of marine tank. Lets see if we can figure some of this out:

1) In most stores, all their tanks are plumbed together. This gives them great stability and surface area capacity. How stable would my 55g be is I had another 2000 gallons in the basement plumbed to it providing things like bacteria surface area, temperature/salinity/ph stability, nutrient uptake etc. I could do just about anyting with my 55g and they whole system would even blink.

2) I work for a living, come home, and spend some time goofing on my tank enjoying the moment and maybe watching it for a while. This IS their job, all the time. They have people who clean the tanks every day (can't sell nothing if the customer can't see nothing). MY tank would look pretty good too if I cleaned the glass and siphoned out cyano every day. As it is I have to rely on the inverts to do this for me.

3) Most people who open a marine pet shop do it only after aquiring considerable experience in the hobby. A bank gives better rates on loaned money if one of the partners actually knows what the hell he is doing in the business and you bet they ask too. Most of the rest of use are just beginners learning as we go (ah part of the fun and one reason why we started).

4) In spite of these facts, I have seen plenty a tank in a store that "don't look that good". There is one LFS local to me that has stuff that looks like it is dying all the time. They can't keep a clam to save their life. I watched a frogspawn waste away over a 3 month period. Looked great first time I saw it, now only three out of fifteen heads are left and they are weak. Etc. Etc. So although many of them do a great job, its not by any means a given.

Yes, the experiences are a bit different from each other and so are at least some of the things you need to do ad hobbiests. That is why a place like RC, and local reefer clubs are so necessary.

This hobby shows clearly how there is no one way to do something. And, this hobby keeps improving what it does over time. Nice cause it means there is lots for us to explore. Bioballs were a huge advance when they first came out. Freshwater keepers still use them all the time. But as science and amatuer knowlege move forward, things change. Bioballs are no longer in favor and there is a reason why.

I am no expert. I program computers for a living. But, I can still tell you about my experience and maybe if there is enough common consensus we can make an asertion based on it.

When I first go my tank it was an ongoing concern I purchased from a fellow on Ebay and the nitrates were so high no test kit would read them (he had poor husbandry but his tank suited him so he was fine with it). I did three 50% water changes and finaly test kits said 80, you do the math. My LFS owner said this was likely because the last guy was using an "older" style of reef keeping in that he employed CC and Bioballs. "Dump the CC and dump the Bioballs and your nitrates will drop like a rock" he said. I did what he said, and he was right. Nitrates went to 20 and stayed there for a while. Then after I had enough of the right bacteria, nitrates dropped to <5 all the time and usually not readable at all. Hmm... is this a common thing? Well, turns out it is and many a new reefer has a similar experience with nitrates.

Things like HOT filters, CC, and Bioballs trap gunk that eventually get broken down by bacteria into nitrate. Unfortunately these devices don't provide the conditions needed to grow nitrate eating bacteria so the nitrate is never converted to nitrogen and thus can't bubble out of the tank. Unless you clean this stuff quite regularly, you are going to get higher nitrates than would otherwise be indicated, and you won't get them down without some kind of cleanup job. That is a lot of work. And lazy reefers don't like that. I find it interesting that today, some types of marine tanks can be easier to keep that freshwater tanks. Cleaning is a great example. I don't. The freshwater guys I know spend half their Saturdays syphoning gravel, scraping glass, and rinsing out filters and bioballs (being very careful not to destroy too much of their good bacteria). I don't have any filters nor any Bioballs to rinse (don't use them), no glass to clean (my critters do it), no gravel to syphon (Conchs and cucumbers can do that work); not sure I'd want a freshwater tank now that I have been a salty, too much work.

Well, this is one opinion based on one experience. Anyone else have a different experience they want to share?

Good luck.