Newb Tank Help

[LiteEmUpGood]

I just want yo know what my setup is lacking or is fine.

10 gallon tank

Penguin Filter that can turn over 170 gallons per hour

I added 20lbs of live sand

My light kit has regular bulbs????

salinity is 1.02


I have this thing called fish cycle, but i should just put a raw shrimp inside?

Im ready to ehar any or all advice and tips

[elliottsa]

Can you get a larger tank? I don't think anyone on RC is gonnna tell you to start with a tank this small.

[Avi]

I'd say that elliottsa's right. I've heard that people are successful with all kinds of unconventional methods but your taking a walk on the wild side with a 10-gallon tank and a filter like that, which would make for a very unstable tank, with a potentially very high nitrate problem. IF you're intent on going ahead with a 10-gallon tank because of money constraints, I'd say go to:

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums

and read a whole lot over there before you go ahead with your project...a 10-gallon tank will work, I have a friend that is successful with his...but it takes some real understanding and I think you might need some more background.

[t4grls324]

well i have just stared up with a small tank. a ten gallon just like u. i think u should start small and learn then go big. i would suggest that u raise the salinity up a little to 1.023. then i would suggest that if ur going to do corals get better lights. i just ordered mine from www.hellolights.com i payed like 110 for a 96watt system. the only problem that u will run in to with a small tank is that u can not keep alot of stuff. mine is in my sons room so it workes out. if u have any questions just let me know.

[LiteEmUpGood]

That's exactly what I'm doing, starting small and then going big. This is sort of a test tank for now, a test that I don not intend on failing either. I wasnt interested in having corals just yet, I wanted to go with a fish or 2 and some inverts. Im not looking to spend a lot on this tank, as I'd rather see it go into a bigger one.
So what's wrong with the filter? How would I combat high nitrite levels? And should I look into a protein skimmer?

BTW I do have salinity at 1.023, and how long does it take for the sand to settle in the tank? I aded sand intot he water early yesterday evening and its still cloudy, should I run the filter?

[Avi]

If you're really going fish only, then the filter's probably okay....just don't clean it completely when you do maintenance....just rinse it off. That will keep the bio-filter going so that you don't get an ammonia or nitrate spike after cleaning. Do regular water changes in the tank of about 15% each week or so. I'd also add some live rock if you can and rely on that rather than the sand. (But while you have sand in there, definitely run the filter.)

As for the protein skimmer, the popular wisdom seems to be that you don't use one on a 10-gallon tank or smaller for some reason...I think it's got something to do with stripping the trace elements to quickly, but I'm not sure...but from my friend's experience: He got a huge hair algae growth in his 10-gallon tank and only when he listened and got a skimmer did that go away. So, I'd say that you ought to get one, the problem being that there aren't many choices for a tank that small. You probably will have to go with a Lee's or one of the few other airstone driven skimmers that are available. As for stripping the trace elements...just get a good trace element additive and use that according to the directons.

[phenom5]

give you my take.

HOB filter and bio wheels
bio wheels help convert organics in the nitrification cycle. problem is they work too well. as a result they end up producing nitrates unless you clean them throughly on a weekly basis. thats why they are generally avoided in the reef hobby. if your going to go with a FO system, the elevated nitrates shouldn't be too much of a problem, as long as you don't let them get way out of control. personally, i'd consider going with a FOWLR. if your not looking to spend too much money, pick up some base rock, should run you around $1-$2 per lb, then add in a couple of lbs of live rock. over the course of the next 3-8 mos the live rock will seed the base rock. this is a little slower of a process, but is a cheap way of making use of live rock. the more flow you have moving over ht elive rock and base rock the better. this will also get your cycle going, personally i've found those bottles of stuff to help the cycle along to be little more the snake oil. if you decide to go the live rock route, remove the biowheel and use you HOB filter for added water movement, and it will also provide a place to run carbon/ phosban/ etc...

nanos and skimmers
the general idea regarding nano tanks and p. skimmers is that everything that they remove from the water can be removed with weekly water changes. and in small tanks skimmers work a little too well, removing many of the good along with the bad. i would look into the aqua c remora or the cpr bakpak, but ike i said, a skimer is not needed on a tank this size.

lighting
no special lighting is needed if your not going to keep corals, but i would suggest getting a bulb of the correct color, 50/50(half 10k daylight, half actinic) would probably suit your needs best.

Trace elements and additives
first and formost, don't add anything to your tank you don't test for. trace elements will be replenished with water changes, and IMO i wouldn't add them as an additive for two reasons, one, do you know what all is in the trace elements you add? and can you test for everything thats in them? and second, you don't need to add them, so save your money IMO.

nitrate levels
if nitrates are a concern in your tank, i would add a refuge. a refuge is a place to grow pods, and more importantly a place to grow macroalgea which will export nutrients that would otherwise cause nuisance algea in your display. CPR makes a HOB fuge, or you can DIY one for relatively cheap.

beyond that, the major concerns in a nano is that b/c of the small amount of water volume, changes can come quick, so you've really got to be aware of whats going on in your tank. evaporation can be a problem, so daily or every other day freshwater top offs are generally needed. sand can take anywhere from a couple of days to a week+ to settle.

HTH:thumbsup:

[LiteEmUpGood]

Thanks a lot, that was a great post.

So heres my tank as of now

I have
10g Tank
Penguin filter
Rio 180 Powerhead
4-5 lbs of live rock I just threw in (it smells)
Jebo 50 watt heater
20lbs of live sand
1 ugly light bulb and 1 super bright one

The tank cleared up a lot since last night when I put the sand in.
I'm debating adding another powerhead and a skimmer.

Im getting varied salinity 1.022 - 1.024readings 0 amonia and 8.0 ph. When should I add a fish?

[jer77]

live rock takes the place of fish cycle plus much more good stinky eating helpers.

I'd test ammonia later cause it shouldn't be 0.

Add a fish when live rock stops stinking and ammonia and nitrite=0

Decide what kind of tank you want first. You have limited options and space, but still can be just as good if you plan it out. Try and choose species that coexist and occur together naturally cause this will mos def help and more enjoyable!

Maybe those in-tank refugium boxes could add more options. Refugiums can act as a filter and can provide a place for natural tiny delicious animals to breed and eventually act as food for many of the small fishes like gobies, blennies, dottybacks, dartfish, firefish, and lots of snails, shrimp, feather dusters, crabs, anemones... Read about refugiums

Be patient, plan on adding on.

[phenom5]

when did you put the live rock in? if it stinks, its not ready.:D i guessing you put the live rock in recently? if so, your ammonia probably hasn't spiked yet. keep testing it, also test your nitrites, and nitrates, see where those are at.

[LiteEmUpGood]

I put the Live Rock in a couple of hours ago. When Im doing tests im not getting much color in the vial. Ill keep on checking. Ill look into adding a refugium but space is very limited. This is pretty much a test tank, Im looking into a 35 gallon with 24x18x18 dimensions, or a big 90. But this right now is a test im not looking to fail. Eventually this could be a hospitable tank or an invert tank. Rigth now im considering 1 or 2 fish eaither a goby or a blennie and maybe harlequin shrimp and snails.

So the Live rock should be odorless?? I'll go smell it in a little bit:D

[jer77]

I'd save my nose from any immediate tests of stank and wait at least a few days, probably a week or more. If the rock stinks it will stink for a while, trust me. Change 50% of your water every few days, and use a nylon brush to scrub off the dead rotting stinking slime- best to do this in the water you just took out. General rule, always wash things like rock, sponges, biofilter media, occasionally if ever, more so for foam sponges or mechanical filter stuff, with water from the tank. This ensures you don't wash away filtering bacteria that is living happily inside.

Harlequin shrimps look cool in pictures, but I haven't seen anyone
try and house one. They only eat the little suction cups off of starfish, so unless you have lots of live starfish sitting around maybe a cleaner or coral banded shrimp. If you can feed a harlequin definately get one, I would in a second.

[LiteEmUpGood]

I never scrubbed my live rock. I thought i needed it to have all of the bacteria on it, why would i want to take it off? Also why do i need to change 50% of my water every few days? I thought i needed to build up stuff in it?

[phenom5]

Change 50% of your water every few days

you can do this, it will keep more of the hitchhikers alive, but will slow down the cycle.

I never scrubbed my live rock. I thought i needed it to have all of the bacteria on it, why would i want to take it off?

you want to remove some of the decaying dead stuff. don't worry, there plenty there to get the cycle going. just mix up some SW and let it circulate for a day or so, the take out the got and swirl it in the newly mixed water in a clockwise/ counterclockwise motion. you can also lift the rock out and dump it in several times, and you can use a brush to scub it. it shouldn't take moer then 10 minutes..but its worth it.

as for the cycle, i would give it a day or two, also double check to make sure your doing the test right(i.e. read the directions)...i made that mistake back when i first started out:D.

[jer77]

Change 50% of your water every few days

This is just what I have done if the rock is poorly shipped and stinks and turns the water a nasty color. Clear water has to be added sometime. I think replacing with some clean water helps to rid the rock of more decay which makes the rock more porous or useful. Just a suggestion, depends on the quality of the rock and your preference.

Just leave it alone for a while and keep testing is cool.

[LiteEmUpGood]

Im taking a water sample to my LFS now and there going to check it for me.

Im thinking about lights for this tank, i have the scre in type hood? What should I get for that? Can I switch to power compacts?

[LiteEmUpGood]

Ok i had perfect water conditons. I added in two clown fish today 1 imperator angel and a sand shifter goby. Teh goby is hiding under live rock and i havent seen him since. I added half a pack of brine shrimp in the water. The only problem Im having now is that the temp keeps rising up towards 82 when i have my lights on.


how do i maintain steady nitrate nitrite and amonia levels in my tank? Any additives I should be using?

[phenom5]

whoa...might want to slow down...i'm guessing you haven't even started your cycle. also, the angel has no business in a 10g...and 4 fish is too many for a 10g...2 clowns...OR a sand sifting goby IMO. i'd take the fish back and get a test kit instead...once your NH4, NO2 are at zero and your NO3 is low...lower then 10ppm IMO...then you can add a fish.

[MartinH]

Originally posted by LiteEmUpGood
"Ok i had perfect water conditons. "

According to the LFS? All the advice I've heard on RC says get your own test kit. Of course they'll say that, they want to sell fish to you!

"I added in two clown fish today 1 imperator angel and a sand shifter goby. Teh goby is hiding under live rock and i havent seen him since. "

Is that the LFS's advice too? Adding 4 fish at once to a tank that probably isn't done cycling? You should take them back and find a new LFS man. Just my opinion of course, but it goes against experienced advice on this forum. I also believe that the angel is definately not suited to a 10G. Forget all that, a pair of clowns would probably be the limit IMO, but you'll hear other views I'm sure.

"I added half a pack of brine shrimp in the water. "

In a 10 G, that much will only pollute your water and add to the water quality issues you are going to have anyway. Popular advice says feed only as much as your fish will eat, especially when they are new (they may not even eat for a few days until they settle in).

"how do i maintain steady nitrate nitrite and amonia levels in my tank? Any additives I should be using? "

Let it finish cycling! If your live rock was smelly only a couple of days ago, it's still curing and your water quality is gonna be erratic at best. And don't use any additives at this point, just take back the fish so they do not die or suffer. Everything you've written leads me to believe that your tank needs time to cycle and stabalize.

Priorities if I were you at this point-->take back the fish, let the tank cycle according to the advice given by others above (water changes, etc.), patience, patience, and then research the fish you want. Best of luck.

[MartinH]

Ahh crap, phenom5 you beat me to it...

[LiteEmUpGood]

Ok, so a total of 4 fish in a 10g is way too much? I see the only solution to this is to start a 20 gallon and everything is solved :)
But seriously, ill to take the fish back, and let them keep the goby, i dont see him anyway. the angel is just there temperaroly(sp). I dont want to see the fish suffer. I gave the guy my water and he tested it and said it was fine. Time to find another store i guess.

the brine shrimp packet is the freezer ones about the size of a bulion cube btw.

these fish are all real tiny right now, is there any way to make this work?