Stopping a Gurggling Sound

[lossman]

Getting a periodic gurggling sound from the inflow into the refugium. Suspect airbubblesor impeded flow? Already tried shutting all the pumps off, letting it settle and restarting. Again, not a steady gurrgle, just once every couple of minutes or so.

[reefamania]

a balanced durso pipe. when you get the right sized hole for air they are silent!! the loudest thing in my tank is the sound of water cascading over the overflow. quite relaxing.:D

[lossman]

I have a feeling we need more water from evaporation, because one pipe kinda surges. Making RO water as we speak.

:D

[lossman]

Actually, one line surges. Both run normal for about 30 seconds, then one surges. You can see the force of the water increase for a second or two, then it subsides again.

[lossman]

Topped the tank back, but to no avail. Surges in one line of the two continue. Removed the pre-filter bags, but as I suspected, no help. I'm guessing it's not the pump or BOTH lines would be impacted.

Had the tank since Wednesday. Surges just started yesterday.

Only thing in the tank is water, and in the refugium, mineral mud and aragonite sand with one little strand of a plant.

My guess is someone has seen this.

HELP !!!!!!!

Thanks

[lossman]

More info

The overflow that is surging has MUCH more air bubbles than the one that isn't. Put a level on the tank, and it is level. The water flow into each one looks the same pretty much. Again, one overflow has a lot more bubbles and it surges.

[lossman]

Did some more investigative triage.

One overflow's water level stays steady. The one that surges' (like someone cranks up a faucet, then turns it right back down) water level drops when it surges, then comes back up.

:rolleyes:

[Avi]

Check out this thread and see if anything in there might help.....

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=341192&highlight=micro+bubbles+bucket+sump

[mfinn]

Sounds like you need to adjust the size of the air hole on the one that is flushing.

[Patwa]

just add ball valves on the lines that go into the fuge.......then slowly close the ball valves to restrict flow (amount to close it will depend on you)....this will create a column of water in the hose from the overflow to the valve....that will help to regulate the flow and make it more steady.....stopping the surging

I had the SAME problem with my overflow....for no apparent reason.....so i installed the ball valve and it worked....no more gurgling and surging

Zach.

[mfinn]

A correctly made Durso Standpipe does not need a valve to regulate the water flow to the sump to prevent the flushing.
If you read the information at this link, it will explain.
The size of the air hole does make a big difference.

http://www.rl180reef.com/frames.htm

[lossman]

Talked to the store where we purchsed the unit. They were perplexed. They did suggest repositioning the hose that drains into the refugium and that did help, a bit. The surging has slowed down to now once every 15 minutes instead of every 15 seconds. The airhole is clear and is not adjustable. Adding a valve is not an option, we are not "handy" people. It's just odd that the surging only started on Sunday and it's only from one of the overflows. The normal sounds from the tank are not a problem, it's just this surging.

[Avi]

get the plans for the standpipe...print them out...take them to a plumbing supply place and they'll oput it together for you and all you have to do is place it into the hole at the bottom of your overflow. You might have to try some end caps on top of it with different sized holes until you get the one that stops all the noise. That should take care of the problem.

[lossman]

Originally posted by mfinn
A correctly made Durso Standpipe does not need a valve to regulate the water flow to the sump to prevent the flushing.
If you read the information at this link, it will explain.
The size of the air hole does make a big difference.

http://www.rl180reef.com/frames.htm

Well, my durso's both look correct. The water is up on the bend. Wife checks the air holes. They were clear. Just seems odd that one overflow surges and one not.

[mfinn]

Yeah, it is odd. Try making the hole a little bigger. You said you just got this setup, maybe it didn't work completely right to begin with.
The air hole is a critical part of the stand pipe. If it is not big enough, the drain builds up to a certain point and then flushes and over and over.

[Avi]

I also found that the size of the hole on the top of the standpipe was literally critical. I had to drill holes in a few different pvc caps, with each one being the smallest fraction of an inch different in size and only the one with the 3/32nds of an inch hole silenced everything completely...and I do mean completely. PVC caps with holes that were small fractions of an inch larger or smaller than 3/32nds of an inch just didn't silence the overflows and their returns to the sump.

[Patwa]

thanks for the info Avi....i'll give it a shot...maybe i can do away with my ball valve if this works.......what size of pipe is your durso standpipe? i have 1.5" drains...would that 3/32nds work on mine?

[Avi]

Mine's also 1.5 inches but I don't think it's possible to predict which cap hole size will work for you...or me, without trying it. I believe that it's all a matter of water flow and pressure and all that physics stuff....Start with 3/32nds of an inch and if it doesn't work, go up and down in minute increments till you get there.

[Patwa]

ok cool...might give it a shot.....

but can you clarify what you mean when you said this particular sized hole made everything "completely silent"....do you mean the flow into the sump had no bubbles?......like what you'd get when you make a siphon when doing a water change?

would this simple caluclated drill hole solve this problem: video (http://www.sage-wisdom.com/web/return_flow.avi)

???

Zach

[sparkys24]

I think what he meant by the hole size is that by changing the diameter of the hole in the standpipe, you are more or less changing the amount of air that is allowed out.

We had to experiment with 6 different sets of PVC caps, before we found the right size hole that silenced the system.

In addition, we stuck a piece of flexible clear tubing down about 4 inches into the standpipe, and like others have said, the only sound we hear, is that of the water falling over the overflow box.

Hope you find a solution!

[Avi]

Sparky's right....now I get no gurgling sound at all, and while I used to get (in addition to the gurgling sound) a kind of flushing sound that came periodically when air collected in the return tubing from the overflows to the sum, though only one of the two overflows did that, that noise doesn't occur anymore either. The only sound I get now that the Stockman standpipes are on there with the "correct" size hole, is a very slight bubbling from the water going back into the sump from the overflows, like you show in the video.

[lossman]

Good stuff. Thanks

Our only problem is the pipe isn't capped. It's a solid elbow. Little leary of drilling and having shavings go into the tank. Now it does drain into pre-filter bags. Maybe that will catch shavings preventing any potential problems.

What do you folks think?

[mfinn]

The shavings wouldn't hurt anything, except if a fish were to grab some. Might be kind of hard to pass.:eek2:

[Patwa]

i'll give this air hole thing a shot too.....but i wonder if my air hole would have to be larger than 3/32".....my return pump is a big one, for a 65g, that is...it's a MAG 12...if i factor in the curves in the (flexible) pvc and the SCWD...i may be doing about 750 to 850gph....is there a strong correlation b/w gph and the size of the hole?

anyways i'll start with the 3/32' and slowly drill larger and larger.

Zach.

[lossman]

mfinn, I went to your webpage for the Durso pipe and it looks fairly similar to ours. The only difference is where the elbow bends back down into the water. That elbow on our unit has a nipple at the top of it with an airhole. I do not know if that elbow can be removed from the long pipe nor do I know if, when we drill out that hole, the motion might damage the connections down below. The LFS that we purchased the set up from has been less than helpful. They told us to remove the whole pipe from the overflow to see if something may be clogging it. (what, I have no idea as we have nothing but water in the tank with maybe 2 cups of sand!) They told us to drain the refugium down a bit because once we remove the pipe, all the water in that overflow will drain down into the refugium. However, I notice slits up at the top of the overflow that water from the tank drains into. We will also have to drain the main tank down below that level also, correct? Then, I also notice slits down at the bottom of that overflow, near the bottom of the tank. So, do we need to totally drain our 150 gal tank in order to remove this pipe to see if something is clogging it? I'm about ready to drain the tank, pack it all up to return it and go purchase a new set up from another, more knowledgable store. Any thoughts? Thanks

[mfinn]

Then, I also notice slits down at the bottom of that overflow, near the bottom of the tank.

If there is an opening of any sort at the bottom of the overflow box, the entire tank should drain out if you remove the stand pipe. If I understand this right. Don't do it!!!

[mfinn]

That elbow on our unit has a nipple at the top of it with an airhole.

See if you can make the hole a tiny bit larger. Maybe a bit of salt in it?

[mfinn]

I'm about ready to drain the tank, pack it all up to return it and go purchase a new set up from another, more knowledgable store.


I don't think that you need to do that. It's just something simple. I still think it has to be the size of the one air hole.

[lossman]

Thanks guys

[mfinn]

Here is another thread.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=516877