Zoo's Melting

[reefbeauty]

I caused a high salinity spike in my tank, and since then;
everything has gone haywire. I brought it down to fast.
I have researched this forum, but I want to make sure I
do the right thing for my zoos. I just want to double check.
I have a brown film growning over them, just like the
white film I have seen in this forum. Is the brown stuff
a fungus also?
The peroxide dip is the one I want to use right?
Some zoos are also being covered in a red turf algae.
It's taking over my tank. I am growing macro algae also,
but the turf is getting the upper hand. I had it before,
but when my macro grew; the turf was almost gone.
My rock is turning green.
I ran my tank at 1.023 from day one. I was so proud
and bragged constantly on my first ever salt tank. :) It
was perfect. It was completely cycled in almost 3 weeks,
and with no additives. I never had to do anything, but water
changes and top offs.
I'm not so proud of it anymore. :( I do love my tank tho,
and I want to nurse it back to health. I am just so
aggrivated because my zoo's are dying.
Thanks,
RB

10 gal
96 watt power quad
Salinity 1.026
Nitrates 0
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Temp 82
Can't test calcium or alk yet.

[yuhsuen]

Algae problem -
That usually goes away after the cycling, but if you just had a major stressor on the tank, it's probable going through another cycle again. Keep up the water changes if things don't look better. Make sure to use RO/DI water to cut out all potential pollutants. Get a small clean up crew like hermits. I'd use turbo snails only if they are small...they are bulldozers.

Salinity -
1.026 is way too high IMO for a 10G tank...drop is slowly with water changes and top offs to close to 1.022-1.023. This could also contribute a algae blow...or that's what I was told by my LFS

Dips -
peroxide dip is pretty extreme...if you have to sue it, be prepared to lose possibly the entire colony. If it's fungus, then I'd risk it. I usually use iodine dip with lugols (you can find many posts about this) and freshwater if that doesn't touch it.

I'd increase the circulation if you don't have enough. Zoas tend to do better IME with good circulation. Since you are running a 10G, a protein skimmer is probably a bit overboard, but in such a small system, it can be difficult to keep the waste down especially if you don't do frequent water changes. I'd go with every reefers chant "I need a bigger tank" :)

Check out the nano tank forum, I'm sure there are good tips in running a small system.

HTH

[reefbeauty]

Thanks yuhsuen.
I have one blue legged hermit. I have lost 2 over the 5 1/2 months the tank has been up. Their time to go. I also have
5 astrea snails and 3 narcissus snails.
My turbo was way to large, so I got rid of him. I have always
done weekly water changes.
I can't use RO/DI water, so I treat my tap water. It does
fine.
I have a power head putting out good circulation.
I'm sorry, but even with only 5 1/2 months experience; I can't
jump on the I need a bigger tank bandwagon.
I love my 10 gal. It has been easy to take care of. Top offs and weekly water changes, and some feeding is all I ever did.
Untill I caused a salinity spike I had no problems with my tank
at all. It was my own fault, so I'm paying for my mistake.
Everything is easy to reach.
What about Dr. Ron's advice of 1.026 for tanks?
Thanks
RB

[bkiba]

i keep my tank closer to 1.030. Between 1.027 and 1.030 (when I get lazy) everything is fine. I always (thought I) understood that inverts like corals enjoy higher salinity.

[yuhsuen]

high salinity...not to the best of my knowledge and from all the reading I've done so far everything suggests a salinity between 1.023-1.025 is ideal. And for smaller tanks it's actually safer to keep at the lower end because of small evaporations can cause a high salinity change.

bkiba - you are right, I have kept my livestock alive for 2 months in a rubbermaid storage bin because of my 10G nano blowing its bottom out. the salinity got really high because I had to rely on someone else to take care of it while I was away and although some stuff died off, most survived. I think after slow acclimation, corals can live a higher salinity levels.

[Izsabelle]

Anthony Calfo "The specific gravities of oceans around the world have a significant range, but aquarists can be satisfied adjusting their systems to 1.025-1.026. ........For the purpose of coral propagation, however, lower salinities are unnatural for most species and dilute desirable nutrients for growth and good health. Lower salinities have been demonstrated to reduce reproductive success as well.......I favor specific gravities in reef invertebrate dominated systems on what is considered by most to be the higher end of the range: 1.025-1.027." pg 164 Book of Coral Propagation Volume one, Version 1.0

Just thought this might help.

PS get a refractometer. Those hydrometers are horrible and should be outlawed in the hobby. :P

[bkiba]

I agree hydrometers are like duplo blocks when it comes to equipment. Refracto for sure! My salinity seems to want to stay in the range of 1.026 to 1.030. I never seem to get it down to 1.025 for some reason - no biggie. I prefer the higher salinity for reasons mentioned in the literature and also from my personal experience diving in reefs. In north carolina (no reefs) the salt content doesn't hurt my eyes (IE I can iopen my eyes underwater). In the FL keys (reef area) my eyes are easily irritated by the salt in the water but I can still keep my eyes open. In cozumel mexico I remember jumping in the water and opening my eyes and it felt like someone had poured acid into my eyes, they wer sore and dried out for the rest of the day!

Anyways my eyes seem to tell me that the more coral life there is the saltier the water is.

[mrpink44]

I don't have the book in front of me, but I'm 99% sure Eric Borneman's "Aquarium Corals" recommends the 1.024-1.026. I keep mine between 1.025 & 1.026 without any problems.

Originally posted by Izsabelle
Anthony Calfo "The specific gravities of oceans around the world have a significant range, but aquarists can be satisfied adjusting their systems to 1.025-1.026. ........For the purpose of coral propagation, however, lower salinities are unnatural for most species and dilute desirable nutrients for growth and good health. Lower salinities have been demonstrated to reduce reproductive success as well.......I favor specific gravities in reef invertebrate dominated systems on what is considered by most to be the higher end of the range: 1.025-1.027." pg 164 Book of Coral Propagation Volume one, Version 1.0

Just thought this might help.

PS get a refractometer. Those hydrometers are horrible and should be outlawed in the hobby. :P

[dmorel]

Couple of things in this thread...

There are NO absolutes in reef keeping, we all know that, but one of things that is widely adopted is the 1.025 number. Reducing below this is often used for FO tanks to help avoid parasites, but in a tank with any inverts, 1.025 is the target mark. While I agree that corals can be acclimated to both higher and lower levels, this is one of the "rules" of thumb I believe in following. bkiba, nothing personal, but the fact that the water hurts your eyes in Mexico being your rational for keeping your SG considerably higher than what is commonly used is a tad thin. If it's working for you at that level, I won't complain, but I'm not sure how why you "can't get it to 1.025" just don't use so much salt! ;) As for the literature, I don't think I've read anything that says 1.030 is "good" I would presume your low end of 1.027 is immaterial.
BTW, I don't mean to blast you at all. Just don't want someone who is clearly a new reef keeper to go letting his SG get that high.

I do agree that in a small tank, shooting for something a tad under 1.025 is a good idea due to evap if there is no auto-top off in place, which is something I would consider a "must have" on a tank that size.

And that sort of leads me to my next point, reefbeauty you talk about never having to do anything to your tank, it was cycled and rolling in three weeks, etc... A reef in your house is an extremely delicate thing. While I don't suggest you should be tinkering with it for two hours everyday (though some of us certainly do that kind of thing;) ) you need to accept that this is a hobby with commitment. Particularly with such a small tank, you are so susceptible to change, the environment can be destroyed in mere moments. A reef takes dedication, or a quality service person, to take care of properly.

I'm not saying you're not doing a fantastic job, I just got sort of a weird vibe from your post. Maybe I'm being overly sensitive because there are suddenly a ton of newbies running around in my local club and I fear for the health of so many specimens at the moment...

-dm

[mrpink44]

Originally posted by dmorel

And that sort of leads me to my next point, reefbeauty you talk about never having to do anything to your tank, it was cycled and rolling in three weeks, etc... A reef in your house is an extremely delicate thing. While I don't suggest you should be tinkering with it for two hours everyday (though some of us certainly do that kind of thing;) ) you need to accept that this is a hobby with commitment. Particularly with such a small tank, you are so susceptible to change, the environment can be destroyed in mere moments. A reef takes dedication, or a quality service person, to take care of properly.

-dm

I think it all depends on the system and what the person wants out of the hobby. Some of us love playing with our tanks every day and like the hands on approach. I met someone on Sunday who dumps 5 gallons of water into their sump once a week and feeds there fish a few times a week. That's all they do (minus a monthly water change) and it works for them.

I read the bio for one of the speakers at the Chicago IMAC and for the last 4 years he has run minimalist reef tanks using only indirect sunlight for lighting. Basically running a really low maintenace system.

Not arguing...I just think some people enjoy it to be as less work as possible and it works for them. I personally enjoy playing with.....in my tank :D

[dmorel]

Point taken. I guess I take the hobby more seriously than some, and definately less seriously than others.

I recognize that my post sounded harsh, and it really wasn't meant to be, so I appreciate your restraint and the civil manner of your response.

And while I agree that a tank can be maintained with a small investment of effort on the part of the reefkeeper, I tend to think that the IMAC speaker probably had the know how to pull something like that off, while I expect a new reef keeper is going to need to understand the ramifications of running a tank in that fashion. That knowledge itself in some way sort of replaces the effort aspect.

I don't know how to have this conversation without seeming like I am lecturing or something like that and it's really not my intention to do so, but in the end I really do think the hobby itself requires a certain level of dedication to achieve the kind of success the animals we force into our care deserve. I'm struggling with making a really lucid argument, but I hope you get the point I'm making. Apologies to anyone that might find my posts in this thread gruff.

-dm

[mrpink44]

dm - I didn't take your post as harsh and didn't mean to imply that. Personally, I spend a lot of time working on/in/with my tank. I sometimes do 2 small water changes a week.....just because I like working on it. I sometimes forget that others have had success doing minimal maintenace and always find that interesting. I hope to some day have a larger tank (like most reef keepers) which I'll stay busy with and then a smaller reef that is very low maintenace. I know what will happen though....I'll eventually end up micro-managing both :-)

Any way, happy reefing!!

[reefbeauty]

dmorel,
I wasn't happy about your post. and immediately said I would never post on Reef Central again.
I don't appreciate having my commitment or dedication judged.
Why do you think my tank was running so smoothly, and that everything was so perfect? It wasn't due to low maintenece.
If I had not been taking great care of my tank, it likely would have had lots of problems; and would not have been as easy
to maintain.
I don't think an auto top of is a must for me. I'm sure it is handy.
but I do that myself.
If there was no dedication to my tank, there would not have been great success; and it would not have been perfect.
If I didn't care, I would not have asked for help after I made a mistake; and my salinity spiked.
My tank finsihed cylcling in less than the 6 weeks I was allowing
because of my great care.
Vibe or not, I don't think one should assume from a post or anything else.
Questions should be asked first.
I also read that you didn't mean to be harsh and so on,
but it didn't set well with me.
And yes, my post is harsh.
ReefBeauty

[dmorel]

dmorel,

that would be me...

I wasn't happy about your post. and immediately said I would never post on Reef Central again.

Well I'm glad you got past that, it's an extremely useful resource and shouldn't be written off just because I was acting like a jerk one day.

I don't appreciate having my commitment or dedication judged.

Yeah? Sorry about that I guess.

Why do you think my tank was running so smoothly, and that everything was so perfect? It wasn't due to low maintenece.

OK, odd since you said in your OP:

I never had to do anything, but water
changes and top offs.

If I had not been taking great care of my tank, it likely would have had lots of problems; and would not have been as easy
to maintain.

It did have a problem, that's why you posted right? You can tell me I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure your tank is not even a year old right?


I don't think an auto top of is a must for me. I'm sure it is handy.
but I do that myself.

OK


If there was no dedication to my tank, there would not have been great success; and it would not have been perfect.

Well I am dedicated too, and my tank is far from perfect, so congrats on reaching that milestone. I've yet to do it.


If I didn't care, I would not have asked for help after I made a mistake; and my salinity spiked.

Never once, not even for a second was I suggesting that you didn't care. Further, my first post was written almost exclusively for your benifit because I feared you thinking that a high salinity was OK since someone had posted something to that affect.


My tank finsihed cylcling in less than the 6 weeks I was allowing
because of my great care.

Really? What extra care did you give it that caused it to cycle in 3 weeks instead of 6? And where did this 6 number come from? Are all tanks supposed to cycle in 6 weeks or something?

Vibe or not, I don't think one should assume from a post or anything else.

You are probably right there. I'm usualy a really nice guy, check out my history of posts, I promise I'm not a complete as$ all of the time


Questions should be asked first.
I also read that you didn't mean to be harsh and so on,
but it didn't set well with me.

Clearly.

And yes, my post is harsh.

I got that.

Not sure what you want me to say. I still think you are a new reef keeper with an attitude. I apologized in advance for coming across gruff but that's about the best I can do. But you know, I'm just some nameless guy on a message board. Try not to let it bother you too much as RC is really a valuable resource for the new and old reef keeper alike.
-dm

[reefbeauty]

dmorel,
I intended to reply to your post at least, but waited till I cooled down some.
You guess you are sorry for judging me, and my dedication to my tank? Ok.
All I did was water changes, top offs, and used my test kit a few times. nitrate,nitrite, ammonia, and high ph indicator.
It didn't have a problem for 5 months. Then I had caused a
salinity spike by forgetiing the salt doesn't evaporate with the water. I have trouble with memory at times.
I was still taking great care of my tank.
Perfect to me is no major problems, my tests where they should be; and all the inhabitants are healthy and happy. I have had unwanted algae and so on.
I knew from the information I obtained before starting my tank, that a high sg was not good. I brought it down to fast. One, becasue I didn't check info. I was to worried about it being to high, and reacted to quick.
I am still gathering information all the time.
You did say," I'm not saying you're not doing a fantastic job."
I know you apologized, and that you didn't intend to seem to be lecturing. I got all that.
But you also said, that I needed to accept that this is a hobby with commitment, and that a reef takes dedication; or a quality service person to maintain it properly. Can be taken as an
assumption.
Nothing is always the same for everyone as you know. And you know the answer to your question, Are all tanks supposed to cycle in 6 weeks or something?
That was what I went by from my information. It didn't mean it would or wouldn't cycle by then. I didn't say anyone should go by that. I know my great care helped in it's cycling in less than 3 weeks,actually. I did more water changes as well as a few bigger ones than I normally do. I also tested.
I didn't have an attitude until I read your post.
It's over and done with.
I do know you apologized for anyone finding your posts gruff.
Can't help how I felt.
You probably are a nice guy.
You don't need to say anything more.
As far as you being an ***, I never thought that.
My tank is now 6 months old.
Thanks for the sg info, and opinions everyone.
ReefBeauty

[bkiba]

Jesus - People are getting catty in here.... anyways... I had some more input on your problems reefbeauty. It's been a few more days, how are the zos doing? I was thinking your light may be to bright - if you just got them that may be the problem. You mentioned a fungus, it usually cakes on and kind of looks like jello. I had some yellow fungus on my zos and did a peroxide dip, seemed to work well I also targeted the fungus with a syringe and some double power peroxide dip solution. Another general solution for ailing zos in increasing the flow, it seems to help them "breathe" and it also helps keep algae and other undesireable stuff from settling on them.... good luck .

PS - take a pic and post it that will help a lot in the diagnosis.

[reefbeauty]

bkiba,
I have solved the problem as far as I know.
I just took what I could find on RC, and treated for bacteria.
I still wasn't sure, but I had to treat right away. I saved some
zoo's, but it upset me to loose the others.
The problem could have been stress form the sg spike,
and bringing it down to fast; or the new zoo's had a bacteria.
That's just my thoughts.
All is well for now. My other zoo's are thriving.
Thanks anyway. I appreciate you, and the others for your help.
Meow LOL
I am ok with DM. :-)
ReefBeauty