Water Testing - Help!

[markreefer]

My 260 gallon reef tank has been running now for two years (see gallery and www link for shots). I have never been able to keep hard corals longer than 2/3 weeks. I have Leathers, Xooanthids, Star Polyps, Red Sea Pulse, which all thrive. I am confident that my parameters are all ok. My LFS is well respected in the business and very knowledgable and has been very helpful. Considering chemical warfare may be to blame I removed some of the softies, and changed 75 gallons of water. I tried Montipora and Hysterix after the change and they started to deteriorate within days. I am dosing Ozone in a very small dose with the idea that it would oxidise any toxins present.

I don't know what else to try? Is there somewhere that I could send a water sample, where they could undertake tests to track down the problem?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am confident that my parameters are all ok.

The main things that I know of that impact hard corals and not those soft corals would be calcium, alkalinity, and phosphate.

Have you measured those? How? What do you get?

Organic levels can also be a concern, as some can inhibit calcification. Do you skim or use carbon?

FWIW, I've not experienced a problem with mixed aquaria, and think the concerns may be overblown (although you may have a particular problem coral). In any case, additional carbon and skimming should help that concern.

Is the ozone a new thing to try, or has it been done all along? Are you passing the effluent over carbon?

[markreefer]

Thanks for your reply. Calcium is always around 400 (Salifert test kit), Alkalinity 8/9 (JBL test kit) and Phosphate is 0.015 - undetectable (I use Rowaphos in a reactor and test with a Merck kit).

I skim 24/7 using a Deltec TS1060S and I use Carbon which is changed every 4 weeks.

Ozone has been running for 5 weeks and is introduced through the skimmer with the effluent passing through a net containing carbon

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Do you use tap water?

Ever use copper in the setup? Or on the rock in the past?

What salt?

What exactly happens to the hard corals?

[markreefer]

I use R/O water which is then passed through an Ultragon filter. Copper has never been used in any way. I use Tropic Marin Salt.

Here are two shots of corals introduced 8 December, Montepora, Hysterix and one other. The polyps extend less and less as the days go by. It doesn't start from one end but all over.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/markreefer/P1070129.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/markreefer/P1070130.jpg

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Boy, I don't really have any clever ideas of what might be the trouble.

Anyone else?

[markreefer]

Is there any way the water can be tested to find the culprit?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Testing without knowing what one is looking for is incredibly expensive, and probably would give ambiguous results as to a cause.

[markreefer]

I'm running out of ideas

[Hobster]

Perhaps try Anthony or Eric in their forum if you have not done so already? Best of luck finding a solution.

[markreefer]

I've had several chats with Eric thanks. Which Forum is Anthony?

[Hobster]

Sorry, All things Salty. See his post about his schedule, so it may be a while, but there are other knowledgable folks.

[spshead]

have you tried running carbon along with water changes

[inlandreef]

My Star polyps caused one of my SPS to bleach because it came in cantact with it. I though Star polyps were peacefull? Just a thought.

[markreefer]

Yes I run Carbon and change it every 4 weeks

[Habib]

What value is the salinity at? How is it measured?

[markreefer]

Thanks for your interest Habib. 1.026 and measured with a glass hydrometer. I have checked the calibration at my LFS

[jdieck]

Can you provide a little information on the Ultragon Filter? Does it uses coloidal silver by any chance?

What about your lighting?

[markreefer]

Not sure but I only installed Ultragon 8 December. Lighting is 2 x 250W Metal Halide 5500K and 2 x 250W Metal Halide 20,000K. The Blue is on for 11 hours and the white 9 hours.

[jdieck]

Can you tell what kind of a filter it is? Is it DI or other?

[markreefer]

Its a mixed bed resin filter.

[aqua5]

possibly keeping carbon in there for a while could leach back nutrients it collected thus causing your problem.

[jdieck]

Originally posted by mordekai
Its a mixed bed resin filter.
Thanks, I just wanted to be sure as I have seen some using bactericidal filters which really create issues in the tank.
Other than that the only things I can think of is that some of the testing may be off (Happened some time back with a wrongly cal refractometer) and the other thing is that there has been some reported cases were the Rowa has caused bleaching and RTN. Long shots.

[markreefer]

My LFS had checked my levels so there cant be a problem there and I wasnt using Rowa for the first year and I have experienced problems from the start two years ago. Thanks for trying.

Mark

[goliathus]

Hi,

I have just purchased a Hanna Instrument C200 water tester that has 36 different tests. I originally purchased it for myself because of my colour blindness. I have difficulty getting an accurate reading with the varying shades of colours on the charts. I already have people that want me to test their water. I have decided to setup as a small business to help others get an accurate readings for them. The cost of the instrument is around $800-$900US however the real cost is the reagents. If you decided to buy reagents for all 36 tests you will be spending 3 times the cost of the instruments. Perhaps you may find someone in your area that may have one of these instruments. Just a suggestion

[markreefer]

Thanks goliathus

[markreefer]

Randy, I am continuing to struggle with this problem. On a hunch I asked my LFS to test for copper. He has compared the result with his water and mine shows a slightly stronger colour. We will test further and I intend to send a sample to the Water Research Council here in UK for testing. Considering that the soft corals are looking superb, is it possible that there is a level of copper in my tank at which soft corals will survive but the hard corals will not?? I have tried a polyfilter but no colour change was visible, maybe the level of copper is not sufficient to change the polyfilter?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do not actually know what copper levels become a problem for specific corals, so yes, as far as I know that might be possible.

Are you able to keep other inverts? Shrimp? Snails? Crabs?

[markreefer]

Thanks for your reply. Yes - all 3. Its just the Hard Corals which deteriate from day 1. Red Sea Pulse, Leathers, Xooanthids, Medusa, Star Polyps - all look superb.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That doesn't sound like copper to me. Most folks notice copper first in the more mobile inverts,like snails, crabs,shrimp, etc.

[markreefer]

Could be that the test kit is showing another heavy metal? The most obvious answer is chemical warfare from the softies, but the large water change I did should have diluted whatever was there. I am thinking along the lines that a piece of equipment may be the culprit.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Could be that the test kit is showing another heavy metal?

It might, yes. It might also be nothing special.

The calcium and alkalinity are what right now?

[markreefer]

Calcium 400 and alkalinity 8

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Well, I don't have any good answers. Sorry. :(

[markreefer]

Thanks anyway. I'll let you know if I resolve it but its looking unlikely!

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You're welcome and good luck.

Do keep us updated!

[thackray]

Predatory Crabs, Starfish, Sea Urchins? Are they wild colonies, or aqua-cultured, or frags?

Phil