Test Kits

[SpaceFish]

Through reading, everyone seems to agree that Salifert test kits are the most accurate. Also through reading, everyone seems to agree that the single most important thing is system stablity and maintaining the readings.

So this being the case, why does it matter how specific the tests can get as long as they stay the same. I mean, I read in another thread that someone said that their reading was "normal", and they were instructed to get a new test kit to show numbers. That doesn't really go along with the theory. Test kits get so darn expensive, why not stick with the more generic ones and just focus on "maintaining" readings?


I thought of it when I was on my scale at home. My scale is off compared to everyone elses but it doesn't really matter since I always use the same scale. I know that if it stays the same, then I'm ok. If it goes up or down then, I drink more or less beer.

~R

[Muttling]

Two things come to mind....

First is the issue of precision and repeatability for the tests. Many of the cheaper test kits aren't very precise in their measurements and may give the same result over a fairly wide range of concentrations. Additionally, some of the test kits have repeatability problems and will give different results for the same concentration.

Second is the cost comment. When you look at cost on the basis of $ per analysis you'll find Salifert is actually pretty reasonably priced as many of their kits give 70+ analyses where the cheaper kits often give 20 or so for half the price.

One final note, there are other kits on the market that provide similarly reliable results. (Hauk and LaMotte are the first that come to mind.) However, Salifert is my favorite because it's more reasonable priced then Hauk or LaMotte and I've been really impressed with the Salifert chemist that frequents Reef Central (Habib.) You have a technical question concerning a Salifert kit, just ask Habib....he's taken good care of a LOT of people and is a product quality freak.

[Hobster]

Funny thing about those Chemists, they also want to be so darn precise and accurate!:lol:

Stability and consistency is always a good thing but if the reading is consistently wrong then what good is that?

There are other kits out there that are OK and maybe not as expensive, see what works for you.

[Muttling]

Originally posted by Hobster
[B]Funny thing about those Chemists, they also want to be so darn precise and accurate!

Just tell em to go PARC the car.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Through reading, everyone seems to agree that Salifert test kits are the most accurate.

While many of them are fine kits, I would never claim that they are always the most accurate. Other equally fine kits are available from Seachem, Hach, and LaMotte.

So this being the case, why does it matter how specific the tests can get as long as they stay the same. I mean, I read in another thread that someone said that their reading was "normal", and they were instructed to get a new test kit to show numbers.

Normal may mean different things to different people. Is 2 meq/l normal? It might be, for a fish only. Is 4 meq/l normal? It may be for a reef aquarium. So what does it mean?

Test kits get so darn expensive, why not stick with the more generic ones and just focus on "maintaining" readings?

That presumes that the reading that you are maintaining is a desirable one. :D

[SilverLantern]

For a while I felt as you do. I would just buy whatever cheap kits were on the market. Still, within the pas 6 months, I decided to go from 4 1/2 years of FOWLR to Reef. Around a month ago, I became OCD with my water parameters, and let me tell you, having used kits from RedSea and Aquarium System's Fastest for most of my SW career, I was very unhappy with these kits, and how the colors on the charts never really seemed to match what I had in the tubes, and I often times had to do equations.
Well, after hearing everyone here and on my Reef yahoo group praise Salifert, whom admittedly, I had never even heard of in my LFSs, let alone seen, I went out a few days ago to 6 LFSs and finally got my hands on a Salifert Phosphate kit for a couple dollars more than I had been spending on the other aforementioned kits.

Let me tell you man, WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!

Honestly, it was like I had been playing with childrens' toy kits, and now I actually got a real adult test kit. While the kit is still a "compare to a color" test, it worked wonderfully. None of this compare with a white background in a flourscent light garbage. No, this kit brings the back ground, and tells you where to place the vial for comparison. What REALLY astonished me, was that the color in the vial, actually matched one on the comparison chart. The chart gives one measurement per color too, not this X-Z range stuff.
I am not someone who whimsically endorses a product, but the Salifert Kit I got, while only one kit, is of MUCH HIGHER QUALITY than the other tests I've used. I called a LFS, and ordered two more, which I will pick up this week. It was THAT GOOD!
If you've used the other kits I'd buy a single Salifert kit to try and compare, you will be amazed at how easy and well it functions. Good luck.

HTH,
Rene

[SpaceFish]

Muttling you got it right... I guess I was captivated by the number thing. I went and checked the tests I've been using and crunched the number to find that it really doesnt cost much more to get the Salifert tests.

Thanks for everyones feedback. As I suspected, I'll be ordering some Salifert tests and am sure I'll be more than satisfied. :)

~R

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'll be ordering some Salifert tests and am sure I'll be more than satisfied.

That sounds like a good plan. Happy Reefing. :)

[Hobster]

Now if we can just get Habib to market some kits for us colorblind (PC: color vision impaired) individuals so we don't annoy the wife and kids (significant other, family members):D

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, you can use a pH meter in the alkalinity kit, and monitor the endpoint by pH instead of a color based indicator. :)

[Habib]

Originally posted by Hobster
Now if we can just get Habib to market some kits for us colorblind (PC: color vision impaired) individuals so we don't annoy the wife and kids (significant other, family members):D

It is my intention to send, somewhere next week, you and some others I know, pictures for approval. :)

[Hobster]

Ah ha! He is lurking about:D
Looking forward to testing. I knew you didn't forget us.:lol:

[BobbyB]

I am new to the hobby. I am in the process of selecting a test kit for my reef system ( which will eventually be set up..in nera future)..Please tell what Salifert kits I would need to purchase to do proper testing...TY

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Please tell what Salifert kits I would need to purchase to do proper testing...

I'd start with calcium and alkalinity (and ammonia if you are cycling a new reef aquarium).

This article should help:

Reef Aquarium Water Parameters (a summary general article)
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.htm

[plankton]

I've always liked the test kits that have been calibrated to how much titrant is left in a syringe (e.g. Salifert). I very much dislike having to count how many drops drop into a beaker or having a vague endpoint. e.g. stop counting drops when solution kinda sorta changes from a purple/brown to a blue/grey color for more than 30 seconds. Give me a break. Some of the cheaper test kits of such a bad end-point and the titration alliquotes (spelling) so large you could be easily off 10%!!

I'll stick with Salifert test kits.

Scott

[Orochimaru]

I just think it is funny how we all think Salifert test kit is the most accurate (and it's probably is), yet we are using a plastic syringe to deliver the titrant. Are the tick marks on it really accurate? Just thought I ask. Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of Salifert.

And is it unethical or illegal to try to figure out what are the components of Salifert CA test kit? I always seem to run out of one of the components before the others. Since component 1 and 2 in the CA test are not the limiting reagents in this titration, the amount use or normality shouldn't really matter. It is the titrant that I am curious about. I really don't want to pursue it ( to figure it out it's molarity identification) if it is unethical or illegal....even though there are test method for calcium in literatures already. What do you think?

[jfinch]

Are the tick marks on it really accurate?

Much more accurate then drops, imo.

It is the titrant that I am curious about

It's hardly a secret. It's a very easy calculation. 2ml sample taking 1ml of titrant resulting in 500 ppm Ca... It's 0.025 M (M/40) EDTA.

[Orochimaru]

I guess component 1 = sodium hydroxide and 2 = hydroxy naphthal blue indicator then?

[jfinch]

Component 1 could be either NaOH or KOH. Component 2 is where the magic occurs and is what makes one kit better then another. I honestly don't know what salifert's component 2 is. My chemistry texts only reference ektachrome black T but I think calgamite is also used. It's likely that each test kit manufacturer has their own proprietary "blend" of indicators.

You could always ask Habib, he frequents this forum. But with a name like Tetra he might not be inclined to offer much info :lol:

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Tetra:

And is it unethical or illegal to try to figure out what are the components of Salifert CA test kit?

No, it isn't illegal or unethical. It is what business competitors all reasonably do with competiting products. It may not be very useful, however, unless you have access to chemicals.

You could always ask Habib, he frequents this forum. But with a name like Tetra he might not be inclined to offer much info

I expect with a name like Jon (or Randy) he won't either. :D

[Orochimaru]

No, it isn't illegal or unethical. It is what business competitors all reasonably do with competiting products. It may not be very useful, however, unless you have access to chemicals.

Just thought I check first and yes it is very useful.


You could always ask Habib, he frequents this forum. But with a name like Tetra he might not be inclined to offer much info

Tetra, short for tetrahydrofuran....:)

Thanks for the headups!

[Habib]

Tetra, short for tetrahydrofuran....

THF :)


I just think it is funny how we all think Salifert test kit is the most accurate (and it's probably is), yet we are using a plastic syringe to deliver the titrant. Are the tick marks on it really accurate? Just thought I ask. Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of Salifert.


It is always good to ask such things. :)

The syringes are quite accurate and we even don't use for the reagent dispensing syringe and the sample syringe the same brand.

The choice is based on things like accuracy, correct and easy readability of the sample and reagent amounts etc.

HTH :)

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Just thought I check first and yes it is very useful.

OK. But I don't know what the ingredients are. :D

[Habib]

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
Just thought I check first and yes it is very useful.

OK. But I don't know what the ingredients are. :D



If I would tell that secret would you forget it immediately?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Maybe you already did? :lol: