Yet another MgCl question

[Hobster]

Randy,

I just received a product data sheet from a company that produces a MgCl de icer . Under chemical analysis it states:

Magnesium Chloride Hexahydrate

MgCl2 6H2O 100% Typical

No additives--Pure Mag Chl Hex

There is also some screen analysis data, weights and pallet info.etc.

Is this possible for it to be 100% pure?? I find that hard to believe that there is no impurities of any kind.

I have replied back for clarification. I did not post the data sheet as do not want to get folks excited to soon:)

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

No, it isn't 100.0000%. But it might be pure enough.

FWIW, The Aldrich chemical company sells that exact chemical at 98%, 99%, 99.99%, and 99.995% purity. Even the 98% is $31 per kg. The 99% is about twice that. The 99.99% is $200 per pound, and the 99.995% is $1000 per pound. So I'm suspicious of 100% claim on deicer.

[Hobster]

Randy,

Based on the information below, how does this look to you for a source of MgCl ? If OK I was going to mix with epsom salt per Craigs article. Sorry,the typical and range got distorted from the PDF.

Thanks :)





PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
Industrial grade magnesium chloride flakes produced
by industry standard solar
evaporation technology. The product is then treated to
remove sulfates, filtered to remove impurities, flaked,
quality control tested and packaged.
Magnesium Chloride Hexahydrate Industrial Flakes are
thin, opaque deliquescent flakes containing approximately
six moles of crystallization per mole of magnesium
chloride.

Typical Analysis Typical Range
Magnesium Chloride MgCl2 (%) 47.0 46.2 – 49.8
Potassium Chloride KCl (%) 0.38 0.19 – 1.15
Sodium Chloride NaCl (%) 0.75 0.5 – 1.0
Calcium Chloride CaCl2 (%) 0.55 0.28 – 1.39
Magnesium Sulfate MgSO4 (%) 0.25 0.12 - 0.50
Lithium Chloride LiCl (%) 0.43 0.00 – 0.68
Potassium K (%) 0.2 0.1 – 0.6
Sodium Na (%) 0.4 0.2 – 0.7
Sulfate SO4 (%) 0.2 0.1 – 0.4
Calcium Ca (%) 0.2 0.1 – 0.5
Lithium Li (%) 0.07 0.00 – 0.10

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It may be OK, but it is the nonlisted things that might be more of a concern. Arsenic, copper, lead, etc.

Is that the same one that said it was 100% MgCl2 6 H2O?

[Hobster]

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
It may be OK, but it is the nonlisted things that might be more of a concern. Arsenic, copper, lead, etc.

Is that the same one that said it was 100% MgCl2 6 H2O?

Yes, but they sent me a data sheet for their Industrial flake/crystal and stated the production is the same. Is it possible that the product does not have the "unlisted" elements or does just about everything have some trace metals in it?

It sure is difficult to try and find alternative sources of Ca, Mg etc other than the name brands. The Kents, Seachems etc. of the world must get their bulk chemicals from one of these places. I doubt they are selling food grade material.:rolleyes:

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Is it possible that the product does not have the "unlisted" elements or does just about everything have some trace metals in it?


Nope. It is just a matter of how much.

The Kents, Seachems etc. of the world must get their bulk chemicals from one of these places. I doubt they are selling food grade material.

They may. That doesn't make it any better, but at least with lime they claim various sorts of grades.

FWIW, from the impurity profile, I suspect that Warner and ESV get the CaCl2 from the same production methodology as Dowflake, while Kent liquid and solid is quite different.

[henn]

To the same topic... I bought last year CaCl2, MgCl2 and MgSO4 in bulk ;) You can see the bags and sertificates here (http://meri.akvarist.ee/viewtopic.php?t=116) When you read the MgCl2 sertificate you'll find out that the assay of MgCl2.6H2O is 100.7% and water (H2O) 52.7%. The latter I can understand, but 100.7% of MgCl2.6H2O :rolleyes:

Randy, could you comment what does it mean? If you have an idea, of course. :D

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

. The latter I can understand, but 100.7% of MgCl2.6H2O

It just means that there is some noise in their assay. These specs always run above 100%. One wouldn't want to throw away a 100.0000% pure batch of something because an assay said it had 100.1% in it.

For example, in my limewater article this month (link below), I show many of the specifications for various grades of lime. Some are stated as "95 – 100.5% " for this reason. :)

What Your Grandmother Never Told You About Lime
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.htm

[jfinch]

Thanks for the pm Hobster.

Hob mentioned to me that this material is from the Great Salt Lake here in utah. I was told by Hovanec himself that the MgCl2 from the GSL was unsuitable for use in IO because of the high lithium content. And sure enough, from the look of the analysis they sent you I'd say it's pretty high. It's 70X higher then the Dead Sea material that Greg Hiller bought.

If you were to use this material to raise your Mg concentration by 100 ppm, you'd increase your lithium concentration by 0.6 ppm. The NSW level of lithium is only 0.2 ppm to begin with. Hiller's material will only raise lithium by 0.008 ppm.

Maybe Randy or someone else can comment on wether or not elevated lithium is of concern??

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Maybe Randy or someone else can comment on wether or not elevated lithium is of concern??

It has traditionally been one of the reasons that folks have knocked Coralife salt (90x NSW) in the past:

The Composition Of Several Synthetic Seawater Mixes
http://web.archive.org/web/20030608135355/http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/aqfm/1999/mar/features/1/default.asp

Larry Jackson said he had trouble keep sarfish in Coralife, but was able to after switching away. Where that was lithium or something else (or a random event) I do not know.

[Hobster]

Originally posted by jfinch
Thanks for the pm Hobster.

Hob mentioned to me that this material is from the Great Salt Lake here in utah. I was told by Hovanec himself that the MgCl2 from the GSL was unsuitable for use in IO because of the high lithium content. And sure enough, from the look of the analysis they sent you I'd say it's pretty high. It's 70X higher then the Dead Sea material that Greg Hiller bought.

If you were to use this material to raise your Mg concentration by 100 ppm, you'd increase your lithium concentration by 0.6 ppm. The NSW level of lithium is only 0.2 ppm to begin with. Hiller's material will only raise lithium by 0.008 ppm.

Maybe Randy or someone else can comment on wether or not elevated lithium is of concern??

Well I am glad to see that IO salt doesn't want to have high Lithium, just high ALk:lol:

So Randy, as the commercial says: Am, I gettting a NO on this?
High lithium and no specs on other trace metals.

Thanks

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Edited out my math mistake.

0.07% Li.

I wouldn't use that.

[Hobster]

Thanks, I give up searching for alternatives :(

As a side, is Lithium a metal and is it the same used in Medications for mental illness??

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Lithium can be a metal, yes, just as sodium can be. In nature it is always Li+ in a salt. Yes, it is the same as in the medication.

[jfinch]

0.43% LiCl means 0.16% lithium.

That's even worse then the lithium content listed at the end of the spec sheet of 0.07% Li.

Well I am glad to see that IO salt doesn't want to have high Lithium, just high ALk

I'd laugh but it hurts too much :( :D

[jfinch]

Hey Hobster, which brand was this?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

0.43% LiCl means 0.16% lithium.

That's even worse then the lithium content listed at the end of the spec sheet of 0.07% Li.

Oops, my math mistake. LiCl is 16% lithium, but that translates to 0.07% lithium by weight in that product.

[Hobster]

Originally posted by jfinch
Hey Hobster, which brand was this?

http://www.nasalt.com/index.htm

The freezgard/dustgard.

Now take a drive on over there, knock on their door and ask them for some of the "good pure stuff":lol:

[jfinch]

North American Salt? Never heard of them :lol:

Bonneville, Cargill and Morton Salt companies are all very close though...

[Hobster]

AKA, GSL Minerals, Ogden Utah.
Aka, Compass Minerals

http://www.nasalt.com/production/index.htm

[jfinch]

Ahh... the north end of the lake.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ahh... the north end of the lake.

Is that the bad side? :lol:

[jfinch]

Is that the bad side?

Believe it or not but it is the bad side (although I think GSL mineral is located south of the causeway). Here's a photo from space (north is down in the picture)

http://www-class.unl.edu/geol101i/images/structure%20images/Salt%20Lake.jpg

About 40 yrs ago a railroad causeway was built across the lake which basically cut it in two. Since most, if not all, fresh water inlets to the lake enter from the south, the north side is now so saline that even brine shrimp find it difficult to survive. The only thing alive in the north is sulfur reducing bacteria (that phrase probably rings a bell in Bombers office :lol: ). Here's how the salinity has trended lately:

http://ut.water.usgs.gov/salinity/images/saltplot2.gif

[Hobster]

So Jon, can't you just go down to the lake with your portable solar evaporation pan and collect all the salts and minerals needed for your tank?:lol:

[jfinch]

So Jon, can't you just go down to the lake with your portable solar evaporation pan and collect all the salts and minerals needed for your tank?

:lol: It's been tried and found lacking :D I know local hobbyists who've tried diluting it for use in their tank and I know of a guy who did his master's thesis on using GSL water to raise and breed lobsters. Ionicly it's not that much different seawater (see here (http://www.ugs.state.ut.us/online/PI-39/pi39pg9.htm) ) with the exeption of calcium which is under 100 ppm. It's the trace elements that are the problem. But the brine shrimp are easy to catch. Last time I went collecting I filled a 5 gallon bucket in about 1 hr just standing on the dock!

I've posted this before, but there is a warm saltwater spring next to the lake that has a dive shop and is full of reef fishes! Angels the size of large frying pans and 5' sharks! http://www.seabase.net/

[Hobster]

Pretty amazing!
All those minerals and production and none can be used in a tank:(