Need Acrylic Glue? Make your own.

[lowbudgetreefkeeper]

I accidently stumbled on to this while searching for computer mods. Though I never used this myself.... I thought it would be useful to the rest of you DIYers. Heres the article:

http://guides.pimprig.com/modding/diy_acrylic_cement.php

Enjoy.

[Seifer]

good idea, but is this going to build a strong enough bond to hold up to the pressures of a fish tank? computer cases are one thing, big tanks are another :)

[lowbudgetreefkeeper]

This may be true for some applications where the ability to bond plastic pieces together is critical due to pressure rated applications (such as contructing a sump or aquarium in which the pressures of large volume of water will be exerted on the joints of acrylic being welded), however, there my be uses for this in which water pressure would not be an issue such as attaching acrylic baffles to acrylic sumps, construction of protein skimmers, and construction of external overflows (and maybe even internal overflows).

[mvandepeer]

HAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA that is one of the most ghetto glues I have ever heard of!!!!! LMFAO--if it works, it works......
IF..te he he.. IF you were to do this .... just a suggestion... use a dremel or router and shave the acrylic down finer than chunks... lol... basically what you are making is a "slurry" This is usaully done to make a thicker solution to fill gaps inbetween plastics of all kinds (diff glues of course...)
Just do it the right way and get some WELD-ON or if you can find it look for METHYLENE CHLORIDE.
he he he he he.... good luck with this one...

[jfinch]

As mvanderpeer says, MEK is a better acrylic solvent then acetone.

But, you can use a similar method to turn Weld-on 4 (or 3) into Weld-on 16 if you're in a pinch. Just drop some small pieces of acrylic scrap into a bottle of Weld-On 4 (or 3) :D

[OceanNwisconsin]

mvn? did you read the whole site??? the acrylic disolves and turnes into a glue.. i would hardly call it a slurry... and it looks like it would work great for non pressure rated applications ie overflows,rock racks, frag racks, good find LOWBUDGETREEFER!

[mvandepeer]

I didn't read the whole site but....Why use something when there is something better? If you use methylene chloride you will end up with a glasslike edge...the weld-ons are a thicker solvent like model airplane glue...MC is like water and flows sooooo nicely on a glue joint...heck, with MC I put a model helicopter together lvl3 in about an hour fully dried.... te he he
I would suggest for a non stress application to just use aquarium silicone.
I would also be concerned about toxins from acetone......

[H20ENG]

I think the acetone will dry up before dissolving into the "recieving" piece. The stuff in the "glue" will then harden back up, but it will not fuse the 2 properly.
I first glued acrylic years ago with acetone (somebody said...). It basically tack welded it, but the stuff just dissolves too fast to make a good joint.

[Bishop]

Not to mention, acetone leaves a residue... in labs for instance we always wash with acetone first to clean a surface, methanol to wash away the acetone, and DI water to remove the methanol, and then snow cleaning (CO2) to remove the water.

acrylic adhesive is so cheap! (ok maybe not 4l of mcbond.) but weld-on certainly is, why would you want to waste time, and risk failure on expensive materials by making it?

[stainlessdonkey]

WHY!! You can buy medical/food grade silicone for $1.89 that uses any standard caulk gun!

[LordRiper]

Originally posted by mvandepeer
I didn't read the whole site but....Why use something when there is something better? If you use methylene chloride you will end up with a glasslike edge...the weld-ons are a thicker solvent like model airplane glue...MC is like water and flows sooooo nicely on a glue joint...heck, with MC I put a model helicopter together lvl3 in about an hour fully dried.... te he he
I would suggest for a non stress application to just use aquarium silicone.
I would also be concerned about toxins from acetone......

Yea... this is true, but if u live in mexico... finding weldon is an imposible task...

WeldOn have acetone....

[H20ENG]

Search for a guy named kanakeban, or kanankeban.
Hes in Mexico and has built his own tank with Weldon.
Maybe he can direct you to a source.

[dragon_slayer]

Originally posted by stainlessdonkey
WHY!! You can buy medical/food grade silicone for $1.89 that uses any standard caulk gun!

you should do more research before making such a suggestion, silicone will not bond acrylic, it only temporally holds it in place with minimal effort required to remove it.

if you cant find MC or Weld-on the MEK mixed with acrylic or PVC shavings works well, it just crazes the joints so you don't want to use it in visual appealing applications.

i don't recall whom said MC was thinner then weld-on but that is incorrect, Weld-on #3 is the same viscosity with both leaving a bit of crazing if not very careful with application, #4 is a better choice for those with less experience.

hth
kc

[mvandepeer]

i don't recall whom said MC was thinner then weld-on but that is incorrect, Weld-on #3 is the same viscosity with both leaving a bit of crazing if not very careful with application, #4 is a better choice for those with less experience.

hth
kc [/B]

MC is just as thin... water...weld-on...
I use MC just about everyday and have never had any crazing.
You will get crazing if you flame polish an edge and then glue it though.
I agree with you for the newbs.... and when glueing thicker mat'l it is better to have thicker consistency... less bubbles.
MC dries about as fast as alcohol... quick... A slower set is a stronger bond....

[Acrylics]

Originally posted by mvandepeer
and when glueing thicker mat'l it is better to have thicker consistency... less bubbles.
Not trying to argue this one *too much* but solvent viscosity has little to nothing to do with bubbles IME. To me, it's all about edge preparation and technique. We do 2"+ with exactly the same solvent as 1/4". Material brand/type does change the solvent solution but not the viscosity. The only reason IMO for using thickened solvents such as #16 is simply to make up for imperfect edge preparation which it will do to a certain extent else it's solvent or #40/42.

James

[mvandepeer]

I found that with thinner glue..straight MC it dries too quickly and allows for bubbles to form...
If it is mixed half/half with I believe MEK it dries slower and has less bubbles.
Yes surface prep is a big help.. ie a jointed edge is better than sawcut....
Weld-on, acryfix, Meth.chlor..... can't we all get along? LMAO

[Acrylics]

Acryfix? Does Cyro still make that stuff? methylene chloride & nitromethane - fun stuff ;)

James

[dragon_slayer]

Originally posted by mvandepeer
I found that with thinner glue..straight MC it dries too quickly and allows for bubbles to form...


i find just the opposite and only get bubbles when using thicker blue such as #16 to build fillets, the joint made with a perfect edge and #3 is crystal clear and the fillet has the bubbles.

kc

[dragon_slayer]

Originally posted by Acrylics
............ nitromethane - fun stuff ;)

James

especially when you use it at a 30% mixture for R/C helicopters. makes a 0.60 cubic inch engine produce close to 3 hp. :)

kc

[MarkS]

Originally posted by Acrylics
Acryfix? Does Cyro still make that stuff? methylene chloride & nitromethane - fun stuff ;)

James

Sounds both explosive and poisonous!

[mvandepeer]

Originally posted by Acrylics
Acryfix? Does Cyro still make that stuff? methylene chloride & nitromethane - fun stuff ;)

James

I haven't seen it for a while..... used to have it at my last job...
nice buzz

[ReeferAl]

Originally posted by mvandepeer
I would also be concerned about toxins from acetone......

You should be much more worried about the toxicity of methylene chloride than acetone- considerably nastier stuff.
Allen

[Poseidon's Vortex]

I aggree totally doc, I use a lot of Chemicals and this stuff IMHO is the worst...Anyone got a better substitute that would work the same and cost the same.. Im open.. just nasty..

It really messes with the heart beat, tends no matter how careful you are to somehow get on your hands, (I use latex gloves too) im uisng my respirator from now on when im gluing..and in the glue room when done.. Not even sure if that will stop it... I use mostly WE4 and 16 occasionally. I just wonder after the symtoms stop what the REAL DAMAGE WAS?

I have good air flow and open windows and fans going in my shop, but I notice my heart is effected anyway after using the glue...Not a pain or anything, just jumps around or beats irregular.. stops after a day or so depending on my exposure, but im sure it's the glue..

I have really considered a plastic welder to be honest, though im told the airless cheapies wont do the job.. And dont anyone tell me you cant plastic weld acrylic... EuroReef does it all day long.. Though I will say they weld acrylic to (c) PVC?? not sure about doing it with ACRYLIC to ACRYLIC.. they have some good shots of the weld on their site along with the new union they got goin on..

I posted some below.. looks like they use PVC welding rods (grey) to weld the acrylic..? Wonder if it works ACRYLIC to ACRYLIC? I dont think they make ACRYLIC WELDING Rods someone correct me if im wrong... Ive looked on a few sites and didnt see any..

What are some good plastic welders out there for good $$ that will weld like this below?

Here... Nice looking joints..eh? Not sure you could weld a section and then router it flush? Looks like you have to have a lip of some sort to support the weld...

But welding would be nice for certain jobs..

http://www.euro-reef.com/images/Default%20Images%20Folder/Elbow%20Weld%20Bead%20001.jpg

http://www.euro-reef.com/images/Default%20Images%20Folder/Weld%20Joint%20Close%20Up%20003.JPG

[Acrylics]

Originally posted by MarkS
Sounds both explosive and poisonous!

Acryfix was actually designed to have lower overall VOCs than the old Weld-on #4. #4 used to contain ethylene dichloride which has been removed primarily due to OSHA regulations on this chemical which is far, far worse than methylene chloride but and incredibly good solvent.

Cyro sold this stuff to mass production display and POP (point of purchase) shops in the early '90s as a solvent to use primarily on extruded material. While it was *more* OSHA compliant, it sucked as a solvent and AFAIK went by the wayside when IPS reformulated the Weld-on #4 to be the same contents as #3 - just in a different solution.

As far as toxicity goes, methylene chloride is not *that* nasty compared to other plastic solvents many of use use often in this industry & hobby. Eg., the tetrahydrafuran in PVC pipe cement just destroys the gastrointestinal tract and would be banned altogether if anything works half as well. Same goes for methylene chloride. Not making excuses for anything, just the reality of it.

***

One of the problems with welding acrylic is even heat distribution - esp on thicker materials. Acrylic "fries" at a fairly low temp and keeping an acrylic welding rod heated so it goes into solution without frying the material to be welded is nearly impossible. The only method that has been proven effective is ultrasonic welding but only with thin materials (<.090")

The PVC-acrylic welds are more like brazing than actual welding as the PVC rod melts and sticks to the acrylic but never gets the acrylic hot enough to actually "weld". I am unsure of the actual bond strength of some of these "welds" and if you tried to route the bead off - you but routing off the actual seal that you wanted to begin with.
You could *probably* do the same thing for acrylic-acrylic joints but you'd have to use a dissimilar material which has a lower melting point and wouldn't be a true weld nor nearly as strong as a solvent bonded or even a cast joint. Coupled with this is the fact that you'd be destroying the aesthetic value of the material and more than likely - stressing it severely.

As far as heart problems with MC, never heard of it though I'm sure it's possible. I'll do some checking on it and see what I find out.

James

[Poseidon's Vortex]

I had the same/similar heart effect just the other day when walking into a house that was using oil based paint. not as bad as the w4/PVC glue thing. Surprised too since here in SO CALI they have basically reduced the VOCS in the Oilbases down to mud and took out all the "good"? stuff that made it easy to work with and would last. Oil bases are much better than they used to be as far as fumes but it was NOT good either way.

Not sure If im just ultra senstive and build up in my body (used to paint houses) But im pretty sure there is something in the stuff that can cause irregular heartbeats..

I also agree with you about PVC glue, that is pretty nasty stuff as well, I use them both a lot and around the same time while building my skimmers in the same shop.. Now that you mention it I will have to be careful and watch and see if it was that in COMBO with the W4 causing the effects...

I also wonder if the times Ive spilled a bit of it accidently on my hands (when filling dropper bottle mostly or clearing needles etc) could have increased the results vs just breathing it in..

On the weld...yea thats what I figured it looks like its almost like plastic caulk on there.. just on the surface hot enough to "stick" to the PVC and Acrylic..

I think we have covered this ground before james, I think the reason that ER can get away with it because they also CNC a groove in the base units? for the acrylic tubing to be inserted into giving extra strength to the joint similar to tongue and groove, or mortis and tenon.. Im not positive about the groove, but im assuming they do it.. Either way It must hold or they would get lots of returns and bad press?

Whats amazing to me is the PVC penetration into the Acrylic tubing in the picture above.. its amazing that that the PVC pipe would not pretty easily break away from the tubings hole, and or crack it..(granted they use cast on higher models) that is pretty high stress point for a skimmer, so it must hold pretty good without leaking?

Anyone out there have an issue with the joints of ER? Im not sure how it would do with No groove just putting the "bead" of pvc on there to hold it..esp if your doing Acrylic Base to Acrylic Tube..vs PVC base?

James I think you told me the airless plastic welder I posted on the other thread were no good for this application..mainly for auto repairs etc..

Is there an affordable model out there than can get the results that ER is getting? And I think you also said that it takes "forever" to lay the bead with the air welder? I have never used one or seen a weld being done.. I always wondered how long it would take to weld a base to the ACRYLIC TUBING.

But i think i would prefer to weld an extra few minutes than have my heart jumping around for the next few days..(if w4 is the culpret alone)

[mvandepeer]

We have a msds/safety person come in once a year for general training on whatever.... There was talk of MC being carcinogenic..
I asked about it since we were always exposed to it and yes it is carcinogenic.... to rabbits...injected with large amounts of it over long time...In their words.."you have nothing to worry about with daily handling"
The other glues that VORTEX and ACRYLICS had mentioned...he he he too right... i'm not saying in anyway shape or form to be careless with any of these...always use caution!!

[markthomas]

Originally posted by Acrylics
Acryfix was actually designed to have lower overall VOCs than the old Weld-on #4.
James

Anybody know where to get this weld on stuff or acryfix?

[Acrylics]

You can get Weld-on at just about any plastic distributor in the US. Look in the yellow pages under "Plastics, distributors, sheet, rod, tube, film" or something to this effect. If unsuccessful in your area, try www.tapplastics.com I am unsure if Acryfix is even made/sold anymore. You don't have to use Weld-on per se. Craftics makes solvents and many distributors have their own "brand" which is quite similar to the Weld-on.
Whereabouts are you located? many times, readers here on RC will be able to help.

James