FISH with POPEYE? HERES THE PIC

[PistolPete73]

Please Help, this is my 1st time dealing with this issue on my fishes eye, is this Popeye? Something else a combination of diseases? How do i treat and for how long? Copper is in the tank for about 5 days, and doing nothing at all. FO tank 72 gallon, I hope the pic is good enough to get a good look at it. I've had this Cow Fish for about 4 years now, and I don't want too lose this fish. Any other specs needed please let me know. ThaNKS

[TerryB]

How are you doing? You used to IM me all the time when I was on AOL (Homereef). Looks like a bacterial infection to me. Did you net the fish in the past week? When it is in one eye like that it is usually caused by an injury. Copper is counterproductive. Remove the copper and make a large water change. If the eye doesn't soon look better or gets worse move the fish to quarantine (no nets please) and treat it with Maracyn-Two at the DOUBLE dose each day for 7 days.
Terry B

[PistolPete73]

Hey Terry long time no talk, yeah I was looking for u when this happened. I still get MFM and that's a big help. I had a Maroon Clown in the tank, who when the cow used to go down and get the food, the Clown would then attack my Cow, The Clown has been since removed and is now doing well in my friends Reef. Now to get the Cow Better.
:)
Ok. I will remove the copper ASAP and reintroduce the carbon back into the tank, I've never had Popeye or whatever this is with any of my fish before in my tank.
I will get that Mayrcan today from what I've been reading there's a Marcyan and a Marycan 2? Which is better in this case? I have a 72 Gallon Tank how long do I treat this for and how many capsules do I add?

[TerryB]

Hi PistolPete,
Do not even bother with Maracyn, Maracyn-Two is the medication that you want. Do not treat your display. Here is what I wrote in my previous post. "If the eye doesn't soon look better or gets worse move the fish to quarantine (no nets please) and treat it with Maracyn-Two at the DOUBLE dose each day for 7 days."
Terry B

[PistolPete73]

Yes the eye is getting worse after getting the other fish out. I don't have a QT Tank :(
I really do not have the room for one in the house i'm in. :(
Anyway this cow is LARGE that's to say the least. he's bigger the my hand in the mean time i just went out to the LFS and showed them the pic as well. Below is a pic on what The Cow's Eye looks like TODAY.
I'm treating with AUQATRONICS: EYE FUNGEX
Now I can not net this fish, nor would i net any fish if i didn't have to. I used a continment center. since what this fish likes to do when he's mad is stick it's head of out the water there was no need for me to handle this fish. ( Thank God, cause it's huge ).
EYE FUNGEX is
1 PART SILVER NITRATE ( 2 Drops )
1 PART POTASIUM DICHROMATE ( 3 DROPS )
everytime it stuck it's head out of the water I applied the drops to it's eye.
Will this treatment work? Is it OK if I have to handle this fish?

[PetConnection]

Aquatronics makes an excellent product called Eye Fungex. It is a two-part solution of potassium dichromate and silver nitrate. You must catch the fish and take it out of the water to administrate it. Have used it sucessfully on expensive angels, which seem prone to getting these types of eye problems. I think they still use it on new born babies to prevent eye infections!

[PistolPete73]

I haven't actully handled the fish to put it on it's eye. When the fish pops it's head out of the water, i was able to use the dropper that way.. is this acceptable? This fish must be an ez 9 inches in length.. and then the with another 3 inches, plus this is a box fish so it has toxins in it as well.. should this fish even be handled?
:eek1:

[PetConnection]

Sorry did'nt see your above posting...

It is preferable to handle the fish rather than use a net. Nets can of course abrade the skin. Just wet your hands first, or if you are more comfortable use a clean wet towel to cradle the fish. A cow should be easy to handle, since they can't really flop around too much. Should'nt take more than 30 seconds to do it...I always have someone "spot" me and either help hold the fish or administer the drops. Good luck!

[PistolPete73]

nah i wasn't using a net. Just a large tupperware bowl, as soon as i put it in it.. it pops its head right out of it.

[PetConnection]

Its probably okay as long as you saw all the drops actually go in the eye (potassium dichromate kind of crystallizes when it is dropped on the eye). Toxins are only exuded from the fish if it dies. The fish is safe to handle, only toxin to humans if eaten.

[TerryB]

I do not recommend the course of action that you are on. Fungus infections are rare in SW fish. I have seen hundreds of fish with symptoms like this and it is usually bacterial. I already suggested an antibiotic and what you are doing can (and appears to be) make things worse.
Terry B

[PistolPete73]

Eye Fungex is Anti Fungal - Anti Bacterail

Ok. The Eye doesn't look any better YET, and the LFS is now telling me, I'm doing everything I can, I am also adding Penicillin to the tank for Bacteria/ Popeye.. Mayrcan 2 is SOLD OUT. I guess it's that time of year?! The LFS is saying I'm trying everything I possibly can ( some reason I doubt it )
I'm double dosing on the PENICILLIN, but dosing every other day.
There telling me the stage it's at now the infection could be under the eye do to this was probably from a fish BITE, and the eye might burst.
For some reason they think I should feel like I'm doing everything possible.. and what happens happens.
( They told to be happy I had the fish for 4 years most can't keep these fish for a year ) but I really feel helpless when it comes to this I've had this fish for 4 years now.. and I'm not gonna lose it without a fight! :) ANY INFO WOULD BE GREAT! THANKS!

[TerryB]

I will once again emphasis that IMO you are on the wrong course. I guess you have decided that you are getting better advice from your LFS. Penicillin is only effective agains gram positive bacteria and almost all SW fish infections are caused by gram negative bacteria. Besdies that doubling Penicillin is probably dangerous to the fish and the biological filter. I would STOP the treatments you are using, make a water change and get the rest out with carbon.
If there are no other LFS in your area and you cannot get Maracyn-Two (which is one of the only antibiotics that penitrates the blood/brain barrier), then look for nitrofurazone or kanamycin.
I hope its not too late.
Terry B

[PistolPete73]

Ok, I've found M2! I will double dose, every other day... unless otherwise told! Geez finding this was an ADVENTURE! 2 Places SOLD OUT.. Finally found PETLAND who wanted $17 a box. Ohh well The Meds now cost more then the fish, LOL! But that's no worry as I want this fish better!

[PistolPete73]

The Maracyn-Two has turned the tank Green! :eek1: My guess is this is a normal phase of this. But I just wanted to be sure. I have a 72 Gallon Tank so 14 Tablets were required. The next dose of 14 will come Friday Night. Anything else I should be doing here.. fish is eating well in the meantime.

[TerryB]

I take it that you found the freshwater formula that suggests one tablet per 10 gallons. That will just have to do. The SW formula contains vitamins. Use the double dose every day, not every other day. The SW formula suggests one (larger tablet) per 20 gallons. It all works out to be the same milligrams per gallon. Continue using the double dose each day (like in the instructions for the first day). Yes it will turn the water kind of brown. It is best to treat in quarantine, but it sounds like you are treating the entire display. You had better keep and eye on the ammonia and nitrite. I did say not to treat the display. If you don't have a quarantine tank I know that you know better. It probably won't kill your biofilter, but its still much better to treat in quarantine. Keep your fingers crossed and we will hope that the damage done by the delay and the drops in the eye can be reversed.
Terry B

[PistolPete73]

I'm using the SW Formula it has B Complex Vitiamins but it asks for 2 Tables per 20 Gallons for the 1st day on the next round 1 Tablet per 20 Gallons.

[billsreef]

Pete,

Sounds like Terry has you on the right track, as usual ;)

PetConection,

Boxfish/Cowfish can and do release toxin in response to stress, they don't need to die to release it.

[PetConnection]

I think eye fungex works the best if the infection is caught early, when it is generally on the surface of the skin. If it is advanced (more than 4-5 days) I would have to agree with TerryB's treatment. I would also soak the food you feed the fish with maracyn 2 or penicillin.

Yes, you are right Bill, cowfish and boxfish can release tetradoxins when they are stressed or near death...but i personally have not had any problems with other fish in the tank unless the cow/box had been dead for awhile and was of a significant size...

Oh and if the eye on the cow "pops" (turns red or white, and sheds some skin). The fish will most likely lose the eye, but they can adapt to feeding with one eye. Even mostly blind fish can be kept, as long as you put food right in front of them!

[PistolPete73]

What seems to be happening inside this fishes eye on a day to day basis as this gets worse, the best way to decribe it is when u cook an egg as the eye is getting worse it looks like an egg white inside the eye getting thicker and whiter as it cooks. Well it gets it's double dose of M2 today. All Foods are soaked usually in ZOE... then again LFS was out.. ?! This LFS is usually well stocked.. So Using Vita Chem in all foods for now.

[TerryB]

Remember, a double dose EVERY DAY, not every other day.
Terry B

[PistolPete73]

Ohh? I thought I was double dosing but following the every other day Plan? Ok. When double dosing now every day I'm doing following the 1 Per 20 Gallons now right? Not the 2 per 20 as directed for day 1.

did all my tests
PH 8.2
Nitrite - NIL
Nitrate close to 20
Amonina - close to .20

[TerryB]

I think that I clearly stated that you should be using the double dose EVERY SINGLE DAY (just like the directions for day one). I have no clue where you got the idea that you only need to medicate every other day. Please go back and reread my posts in this thread.
Terry B

[PistolPete73]

What I was saying was U told me to double dose. In the directions it told me to dose. but every other day. How long should i be medicating the tank? For how many days? 10 - 5?

[PistolPete73]

YES your absoluty right. for some reason, I read the directions wrong, it does call for a double dose day 1.. ( Which I double that dose ) then day 2 THRU 5 single doses ( Which I'm doubling as well.. I thought the directions called for doses every OTHER DAY. my mistake thanks.

[TerryB]

By gosh, I think you may have got it right now. Amazing what reading will do for you. Yes, you treat every single day using the same dose as on the first day. This is double the amount in the instructions after the first day. Treatment should last at least 7 days. If the eye does not look completely better you may have to treat 10 to 14 days. It will take at least three days OF THE CORRECT DOSE before you will probably see any improvement at all. Hopefully, it is not too late for a full recovery, but the eye looked pretty bad.
Terry B

[PistolPete73]

I've had the doses and days correct for the last 2 days now. I've only missed 1 DAY for a correct dosage. Also I have put the M2 In the tank 3 out of the last 4 days now. And Will continue with anything further..

Where should I start to get concerned with Amonina and Nitrate for a WATER CHANGE, while Medicating the tank?

[TerryB]

Just check the ammonia and nitrite daily. You may not have a problem with it.
Terry B

[PistolPete73]

Still Treating the Tank/Fish with M2.
Cow fish is completley Blind in 1 eye with a clouded Eye.. also a thick cotten layer that keeps slowly building up in it's eye.. what should i be doing? Anything nothing.. staying the course? Any help would be great thanks.!!

[TerryB]

You have been treating with M2 now for about 12 days and the eye is not healing. I was afraid that medication may not help because of the delay in using M2 and the eye drops the fish was given. The damage done to the eye is probably permanent. I would make a water change and discontinue the M2. It would be worth trying nitrofurazone. It is available as Furacyn. The directions say to double the dose in SW and I suggest that you DO NOT SKIP treatment every other day. Use the double dose as directed for SW but every day for 5 days rather than every other day. Sorry, but antibiotics won't correct physical damage. Try the nitrofuazone and if that doesn't work all you can do is make large water changes and hope the fish heals itself given enough time.
M2 and Nitrofuazone are compatible but it would be better if you made a large water change and got most of the M2 out before adding the new medication.
Terry B