Why aren't soldiers deaf?

[Vincerama2]

I just saw some Falluja firefight footage on the net. How the heck can soldiers maintain their hearing with all that gunfire? I go to the range occasionally, and even with ear protection, it's loud as crap!

OK, I acknowledge that an indoor range with baffles there is a lot of echoing... but I can't imagine not going deaf with a big machine gun rattling next to my head!

Any non-deaf soldiers out there? Do you get issued olive drab earplugs?

V

[JR719]

Very good question.... I know during rifle quals, our .223's are deafening. I not only use ear plugs but, sometimes earmuffs. My little 9mm sub gun still has the supersonic crack and with plugs is loud. Some of the pics I've seen, those guys have plugs, some have headphones (communication). I think those guys must have some hearing loss. Of course, if it comes down to keep from being blasted, I would go without plugs.

[benonmsn]

your ears are pretty tough, i shoot w/o ear protection. and ride a motorcycle.. my ears are doing fine. all of the "ears are easily damamged by even blah lbah lbha" is a little misleading, while it is correct, it doesntmean you are gouing to have noticable hearing loss.

[Yukon]

Originally posted by benonmsn
your ears are pretty tough, i shoot w/o ear protection. and ride a motorcycle.. my ears are doing fine. all of the "ears are easily damamged by even blah lbah lbha" is a little misleading, while it is correct, it doesntmean you are gouing to have noticable hearing loss.

I just have to ask this. Why would you shoot without ear protection? Are you talking about firing a shotgun a couple times a year, or target shooting? When my wife and I shoot pistols, we would never do it without ear protection, and I don't know anyone who does. I don't know how old you are, but you won't notice the hearing loss that much until you hit your late forties to early fifties. By then, it's too late.

[aquaman67]

Small arms fire is loud but stand next to a 155 mm howitzer sometime or near an M1 tank when the main gun cuts loose...not good.

[Ritten]

My husband is a gun smith and spends a lot of time at the range at work. He does wear ear protection, but he still can't hear --- or is he just pretending?

[bkwudzjeep]

what?












;)

[Ritten]

Oh, you thought you were my husband - he he

[Razing Kane]

I lost alot of high frequency hearing while in the military eg: cant hear the beeping of a watch and constant small ringing in the ears.

[ProdigalPoster]

Originally posted by Razing Kane
I lost alot of high frequency hearing while in the military eg: cant hear the beeping of a watch and constant small ringing in the ears.

I was going to say, my Father was a Marine for 22 years and he has lost partial hearing in his right ear. He can't hear certain frequencies in his daily life.

[wee-reefer]

My dad worked in the engine room of a submarine. Can't hear a thing unless you yell at him. I know it's not gun fire, but still takes a toll on your ears!

[Putawaywet]

I 've had several coworkers over the years that have seen combat and every single one of them had some significant level of hearing loss.

The military seems to just make a lot of noise in general... both in wartime as well as peace.

The guys I most worry about are the ones doing the knock and talk over in Falluja. I'm afraid long-term hearing loss will be the least of their worries.

Brett

[Vincerama2]

I never ride my motorcycle without earplugs. I've heard stories of guys who rode for years and ended up with tinnitus (ringing in the ears that never goes away). I actually find that I ride better when I don't have to deal with the road noise...it's fatigueing!

Also I was the outdoor range once shooting my Enfield when the guy next to me fired his 7mm rifle. I pooed my pants when he fired it just because the soud surprised me!

V

[texasreefer]

your ears are pretty tough, i shoot w/o ear protection. and ride a motorcycle.. my ears are doing fine. all of the "ears are easily damamged by even blah lbah lbha" is a little misleading, while it is correct, it doesntmean you are gouing to have noticable hearing loss.

I used to think the same thing. Everytime I take a hearing test they always ask me if I can hear anything at all. I failed my physical for the marines the first time because I couldn't pass the hearing test. There is a large range of frequencies I can't hear. A lot of mine came from shooting guns and working at plants w/o hearing protection. Once you lose your hearing you can't get your hearing back. There are some advantages to not being able to hear though. You don't have to listen your wife/gf complaining. :D

[Runner]

Heck, you have hearing loss if you run yard equipment (lawn mower, weed whacker, blower) without earplugs. I worked in a textile mill but had no loss whatsoever until I bought a house. The next year I had 10 dB loss at the 4K range (where it begins). The next year is spread to 5dB in the surrounding frequencies. I always wore plugs in the plant at work, but I started wearing plugs at home after that. And I haven't had loss since. I definitely use plugs at the firing range. Every little bit adds up. I want to be able to chose to hear my wife when I am 70-years-old.

I don't know what the soldiers do for ear protection. Going door-to-door, you want your full hearing so you can hear the scuff of a foot around the corner. There are noise cancellation devices now that can take the edge off noise with an inverse sound wave. I wonder if the military uses them? We had them for the turbine deck of our power plant.

[johnny1]

I have fired alot of different guns but my 45 handgun and my AR-15 are the worst as far as how loud they are. I also worked in the car audio business as an installer. I wear ear protection while firing guns but I could not wear them while I worked (you have to be able to hear the speakers).

When I took my 2 year old daughter to have her hearing tested we went into a sound proof booth and just sat there I could see the doctor looking around and writing and then he opened the door. I asked what was wrong and he said she did great I asked if he had run the test and he just turned around and handed me a card and said come see me.

[rustang]

Not to change the subject, but I used to sell competition car stereo gear, these kids would run around with bass frequencies blasting up to 160 decibels. I would think the higher frequency of a gun shot would be considerably more damaging to an eardrum, especially if it were repetitive. I just read an article about soldiers in Iraq and ear damage, it is a serious problem..

[johnny1]

High frequencies are more damaging than low but alot of the systems I used to install had tons of high also. It wasnt so bad unless we were preparing one of the systems for a competition, then there would be hours of testing and fine tuning the system. Most of the time I didnt even listen to the radio on the way home after that. HEADACHE!!!!!!!!

[rustang]

In our area, for some ungodly reason, our black customers (young men) were into putting several horn type tweeters in the front of their vehicles, with massive amplification. When they drove by, it just sounded like very high pitched screeching, like fingernails on a chalkboard... It was terrible from the outside, I can't imagine sitting in the vehicle with over 100db of high frequencies and about 150 db of low frequencies. I tried to explain the virtues of mid bass and mid range tones, but all they wanted was massive bass and massive , ear bleeding tweeters...

[pnosko]

Originally posted by benonmsn
your ears are pretty tough, i shoot w/o ear protection.It boggles the mind.

[rustang]

I agree with pnosko... Once the damage is done, it is pretty much irreversable..... Lets all be safe out there, ok ???? He probably doesn't wear a helmet while riding his motorcycle either :confused:

[Putawaywet]

Well, I forgot to mention that while those coworkers would admit to being a little bit hard of hearing they would argue the point all day long that it wasn't as bad as the rest of us kept telling them.

The human body is very good at adapting, especially for deficits that progress slowly. So while we keep thinking everything is just fine the probelm is gradually getting worse and worse.

Brett

[otolith]

I'd like to think I'm somewhat of an "expert" in this area, having taken care of multiple vets for this problem. In general, a gun shot is one of the worst sounds to the human ear. It's fast, loud, and covers multiple frequencies, giving your body no chance at all to adjust to the sound.

There have been a few WWII Vets who I've seen for complete hearing loss in one ear from a bomb that went off right next to them--frequently knocking them through the air or at least unconscious. I'd ask them if it bothers them that they couldn't hear out one of their ears. For the most part, a frequent answer I'd hear is that they feel pretty lucky, since the guy on the other side of them died from the shrapnel of the same bomb. Another thing I'd frequently see is left-sided hearing loss in most/all right-handed shooters who didn't wear hearing protection.

A quick aside...these Vets were real men, not the whimps we are today. They got it done, and God bless 'em. It was such a privelege to be involved in their care. Truly living history, and tough as nails, to boot. (Mods, I apologize if this is political in any way...I just have a great respect for our Vets).

Now back to our regularly scheduled program...

benonmsn, not to rip on you...but keep it up, and it will eventually catch up with you. You may not end up completely "deaf," but probably with some sort of impairment. Whether it ulimately affects you is TBD.

johnny1--LMAO (I probably find this funnier than the average Joe, just, well, because). :)

Protect the hearing you have. There are ways to "restore" hearing. The simplest, and most frequently used, are hearing aids. The most advanced, are cochlear implants, which run around $100K. The best? Your own hearing. :)

[Acrylics]

Hmm, sounds familiar Brett. I worked with machinery for years, no problem. I shot weapons for years, no problem. Years go by, my wife says "why are you always saying 'huh?'" definite problem. IME, you don't realize there's a problem until someone else has to point it out. Now I have to have folks either talk *at* my face (recentl taken up lip reading I guess) or right ear to hear them. Sux.

BTW JR & Johnny, yep the .223 through the shortened Mini-14 in FA has to be about the loudest thing ever.

James

[GoldWing]

What, Type LARGER!

[pnosko]

:lol:

[Flanders]

I can't believe there are people out there who think your ears are tough.

[zenguitar]

I rarely shoot but went out one day with a friend to shoot his glock. One discharge and it felt like I had a pillow over my ears accompanied by the loudest ringing in my ears I had ever experienced. Freaked me out a little bit actually. I of course put in ear plugs after that. I don't understand how anyone could shoot anything over a .22 without earplugs. Protect your ears, hearing loss is permanent.

I used to have ringing in my ears after playing shows because the band was so loud, I've since worked on getting a quieter but well mixed stage volume and my ears don't ring anymore after playing a show. So much better. My drummer does wear earplugs when performing by the way and even in rehearsal.

[Flanders]

zenguitar, are you saying you don't wear earplugs while performing because of the comparatively lower stage volume? If so, at least consider the possibility that your ears don't ring anymore because of scar tissue in your eardrums from the damage you've already done. You can't mix cymbals to a lower volume if you're standing near them, and IMO, that's what's going to beat the hell out of your eardrums besides the guitar.

[Paul B]

A lot of Vets are partially deaf. I served in Nam and Cambodia and I was a Commo Chief attached to an 105 mm artillery battery.
We had no ear protection (hell, we didn't even have underwear) and we would fire six guns at a time through most of the night for an entire year. I usually slept right under the gun barrel. The noise from our guns was louder than when the Vietnamese would fire morters back and the rounds would land near you. That sound is deeper. The sound of our outgoing artillery was higher and your ears rang all the time.
We also used to have what we called "Mad Minutes" where everyone on the LZ (landing zone) would fire everything we had into the jungle for about a minute (or until your M 16 exploded)
we had tanks, M 16s, 50 cal machine guns, 60mm machine guns, artillery, 105, 155 and 175mm cannons. Also firing around us from other firebases and cobra gunship hellocopters. You want to hear noise, I can show you noise. (I even have a few mad minutes taped) One major fight I was in which caused us to go into Cambodia our 8" artillery exploded killing many people and bursting the eardrums of almost all of us on the Firebase.
Here is a link to the firebase where that happened the day I was there.
By the way I can still hear, just not high pitched.
Take care.
Paul
http://www.fwb2.homestead.com/

[Vincerama2]

I heard (ha ha) that it's easier to understand what someone is saying if you can see their mouth as they speak. Even if they spoke at the exact same volume. I guess the human brain is pretty good at filling in the pieces, so given the extra clues, you are actually subconciously lip reading!

Aslo, I've seen an eplxmae taht sohws taht as lnog as the frist and lsat lterets of a wrod are in the rgiht palce, yuor bairn can dcyeephr it whtuiot too mcuh tlbruoe!

(Also I've seen an example that shows that as long as the first and last letters of a word are in the right place, your brain can decypher it without too much trouble!)

V

[tyoberg]

I have some hearing loss in the upper freq's from working in a submarine engineroom. It isn't ear-ringing loud back there, just uniformly noisy. Heck, I probably wore earplugs more than anyone else on board!

Anytime you end up with ringing ears, your hearing is getting damaged (and just because they don't end up ringing doesn't mean your hearing is safe either). I shoot competitive highpower rifle. I wear both plugs and muffs.

Guys in combat just take the loss.

[Jamesurq]

muffs.... he he...