T5 vs MH

[Xayvian]

I have almost decided to get the Tek 48" 4 bulb fixture for my 72G bowfront but I thought I should get some last opinions about going the MH route.

I have looked for some prices from local stores and I think 2 x 175W MH will cost about 30% more than T5 and 2 x 250W MH will cost about 42% more than T5.

If I go for the T5s will I be limited in what I can have in my tank? Will I be cursing myself in the near future for not going MH?

[mygreengoldfish]

Try taking another look at metal halides. They have many benfits to both you and your tank inhabitants. For you, they provide natural looking "glitter lines" and give lighting like what you would see in nature. For what lives in your tank, metal halides give better growth and coloration. Also for a tank like yours, it requires quite a few flourescents to get the same wattage as a metal halide and the metal halides light the bottom of the tank better than fluorescents.

In my opinion you should look into two 250 watt bulbs. This will give enough light for moderate care SPS corals and LPS corals will thrive. I have metal halides and I am very happy I bought them instead of the VHOs that the fish store was trying to sell me.

Here is a good deal that you should look at: http://oceanencounter.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=OE&Product_Code=E2R&Category_Code=EVMHR

Good luck on your choice!:)

[Cearbhaill]

I don't think that anyone would argue that T-5's are better than MH's in terms of reef lighting. They are not.
What they are is cooler.
I already have room heat issues in my home and using lighting that further increased my A/C costs was simply something I am not willing to do.
For that reason alone I went with T-5's. A good T-5 system can cost more than DIY MH systems, but you only have to replace the bulbs every 18 months so some of the money is recouped in time.
I grow SPS and clams but am limited in terms of placement in the tank.

Lighting is the hardest decision in reefing- just take your time, read everything, and check the dates and T-5 experience of everything you read. It is a relatively new technology and a large percentage of the naysayers have no experience with it.

[jda]

Totally depends on what you want to keep. If you eventually want SPS, clams and stuff, then go ahead and buy MH now and save the cost of buying T5 and having to upgrade later.

Most people who buy MH rarely regret it. They have no light limitations and can keep anything that they their systems can handle.

If you do go with MH, get the 250W instead of the 175W. They penentrate into the water better.

FWIW - when I kept sofites and LPS, they looked better and grew faster under MH than under VHO. They did fine under the VHO, but when I switched, they really took off.

[Aaron]

I have had PCs, T5, and a 250MH on my 29 gal.

Of all the lighting I liked the T5 coloring the best. For growth the MH is the best... though I have had some problems with my Candy Cane (LPS) losing color and not liking the more intense lighting but all other softies and LPS are loving it.

I'd say go with the MH just make sure you get the color bulb you will like, as most has a ton of yellow.

[moonpod]

It's a matter of what you want to keep and what type of heat problems you have. MH is the brightest, period. do you need that with what you want to keep? You have to decide. Next, what type of heat problems do you have. T5 is much less heat generating than MH.

[Xayvian]

Once my tank has be running for quite a while I can see that I will want to add some SPS. Will four 54W T5s be enough light in a tank that is about 18" deep?

I won't have any heat problems. The weather is quite mild here. It does hit the upper 80's for short periods in the summer but it isn't a concern. I suppose the extra heat from MH will be useful in the winter but daytime highs in the winter are almost never below freezing here so it won't make much difference.

[mygreengoldfish]

The wattage of all of your T5s will not even equal the wattage of one 250 watt metal halide. If you decide on the T5 setup you just mentioned, you will be limited in what you can put in your tank.

[prespr]

I just bought a 54X8 T5 light system. As I have no experience with metal halides, all I can say is that T5's seem to be pretty cool in terms of temp. This is one of the main reasons I decided on these lights to begin with as I have children and I did not want to hang my system from the ceiling or burn them. THere was another thread that discussed what you can keep with the t5 set up. Do a search for T5 on this forum and maybe you can find it. Many of the folks there said they could keep SPS and even a few said clams. Again, I do not have personal experience with this but my total system with lights, fan, legs and shipping was $389 through ebay and pet supply liquidators for a new unit with fan and two separate switches. My system is 454 watts total and I have a 75 gallon 18" deep tank. I also did not want to have to buy a chiller later and I know several people keep halides without a chiller but many do end up needing them.
This is what I decided on.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4317794724

[Xayvian]

Originally posted by mygreengoldfish
The wattage of all of your T5s will not even equal the wattage of one 250 watt metal halide. If you decide on the T5 setup you just mentioned, you will be limited in what you can put in your tank.

From what I've read, you just can't go by wattage with all these different bulb technologies. Add into that the various reflectors and things are even more confusing.

I would have thought that someone (most likely a T5 vendor since it is the newest bulb type) would do a comprehensive comparison of all kinds of bulb/reflector combos.

[prespr]

P.S. I am not a DIY'er and needed a complete already built system that I could just pop over my tank and call it done. If you are creative you can prob. get close to this cost with halides. There are lots of sells on ebay on lighting, and No I am not affiliated with ebay or any of their suppliers.

[mygreengoldfish]

prespr-It is true that complete hoods with fuorescents are usually cheaper but in my opinion, buying a canopy and retrofitting it with halides is the most cost effective and better looking. But that is only my opinion and anyone else can do whatever they want for their specific situation.

Xayvian-You are right that you can't go by just wattage but it is usually the most important part. Reflectors make very little difference as do the shape of the bulb and type of ballast. And I made the mistake of the misreading the 8 for a 4 on your setup. This should make a good deal of light for your tank but may not be enough lighting for bright sps corals. That looks like you got a good deal on the lights for only $340.

[moonpod]

mygreengoldfish--where do you get "reflectors make very little difference"? As a Berkeley Student (assuming a fellow Golden Bear), please don't make statements like that--it makes me wonder about the state of the University--Just kidding, don't take that first part seriously. Seriously, reflectors make a world of difference. T5s can friggin' triple their output over a tank with good reflectors vs "parabolics" or lining the canopy with mylar or something. 250w DE generates higher PAR numbers than 250w SE b/c of bulb shape and reflector considerations. Any chump with a light meter can see the difference with quality reflectors. It's not "precise", but the differences can be huge. This is where the whole 250w DE vs 400w SE debate got started. Not the output of the bulbs, but b/c of what reflectors do for you. Similarly if you go fluorescent, T5s advantages lay in what you can do with a reflector b/c of the slim simple geometry.

In the end though, T5 is not really limiting in the sense of what you can keep. I can say that as one of the original T5 users on this board. What it does do is limit growth and sometimes things brown out on ya. But, I had no problems keeping Croceas alive and growing with T5s at 12-14" or so.

However I also agree that if you are primary $$ constricted, 250w SE is about as good of a lighting bargain as you can find.

[arpaz]

prespr, how do you like your T5's.
I am planing to order the same one from ebay also. How was the service from the seller?
What tank you have? My problem that they pointed that fans ae on the side and I have a 72 galon fish tank with the canopy. So my concern if the opening will be enough for the fans

[pecosbill]

Have you looked into t-8 bulbs and workhorse ballists.. You will have a much greater choice of lamps with t-8. Also with the workhorse ballists you can overdrive the lamps. I have a 90 gal. with 6 t-8 bulbs in the canopy and everything seems to do well.

[masterswimmer]

I concur wholeheartedly with Moonpod. I've got the TEK 6 x 54w T-5's. I have been able to keep a plethora of corals in my system. I am currently keeping only one SPS as a test. I have an ORA Acropora Tortuosa Blue. In the time I've had it, about 3 months, it has grown 30-40%. Not bad in my estimation. Looks beautiful. I keep it at the very top of my rock about 7" from my T-5's. Keeps branching and growing beautifully.

Would a 250w DE MH be better? Definitely, but with the 12 - 18 month bulb replacement, cooler running temps (a concern of mine) and various bulb/color configurations I am most pleased with my selection of lighting.

Russ

[Xayvian]

Originally posted by arpaz
prespr, how do you like your T5's.
I am planing to order the same one from ebay also. How was the service from the seller?
What tank you have? My problem that they pointed that fans ae on the side and I have a 72 gallon fish tank with the canopy. So my concern if the opening will be enough for the fans

That fixture looks like one of those that don't have the good reflectors. They have fit 8 bulbs in a fixture that is only 8.5" wide so there can only be one big reflector. From what I've read you want a fixture where there is a separate reflector for each T5 bulb.

My guess is that a Tek 4 bulb fixture like the one I am looking at will be brighter than that 8 bulb setup. Just a guess though.

[masterswimmer]

Originally posted by Xayvian
That fixture looks like one of those that don't have the good reflectors. They have fit 8 bulbs in a fixture that is only 8.5" wide so there can only be one big reflector. From what I've read you want a fixture where there is a separate reflector for each T5 bulb.

My guess is that a Tek 4 bulb fixture like the one I am looking at will be brighter than that 8 bulb setup. Just a guess though.

I agree.

[R33f3r]

Yeah, I agree as well. The whole basis of T5 technology is based on the individual slr/sls reflector. I have been able to even keep s. haddoni carpet anemones on the sandbed. That's a good 18 inches from the light and look great, although MH is still the first choice, but it can be done IMO.

[mygreengoldfish]

moonpod-I didn't think that reflectors could really make that much of a difference. I know that it would redirect the otherwise "wasted" light going in the wrong direction back down but I would have never thought it could triple their output. And don't question the state of the University, I am only a junior in high school and I haven't reached the subject of light related topics yet in my physics class. Sorry for any false information.

[moonpod]

Reflectors are huge dude. "Efficient" lighting is all about reflectors. A light bulb produces "X" amount of light, but in a 360 deg pattern right? So the trick is to avoid restrike (where the light bounces back into the bulb) and to minimize photon energy loss as you direct it where you want it....into the tank. The smaller profile the bulb, the easier it is to make a nice reflector. It's actually one of the banes of PCs. PCs produce a decent amount of light....the catch is that a LOT of it bounces back into the bulb b/c of the inherent geometry problems. SE MH is bulkier than DE, hence the increased effeciency of DE reflectors that are optimized to take advatage of that geometry.

[prespr]

I like my light fine. I only run half the bulbs so far as I do not have corals yet but I haven't had to turn on the fan yet. I got the feet to raise it above the water.

Shippment took a while because my light arrived broken twice but the shipping department took care of it quickly and replaced everything plus threw in an extra bulb and a new foot that I broke. It came from Cal to MO so I think it was just bad luck.

I agree the wooden hoods look better but as I am not a DYI'er and I don't already have a hood, the retrofits were definately out of the question.

When I turned on the light first time I turned on the whole thing looking straight at it and couldn't see for a half hour. Now I know that is not scientific but I am telling you it's bright!!

I have a 75 gallon 18X18X48" tank. And I like the color of the light. It is half actinic and half 10000K bulbs. I don't think that was the perfect color according to all your posts but it looks good to me, sort of like a sunny day right in my living room. I will try to take a picture and post it for you all.

[prespr]

PS. the fan is actually on the top and the things at the side are vent holes it draws the heat through.

As for the reflector, I didn't even know they made the other kind when I bought it, but I figured 454 watts is overkill for a 18" tank anyway. Time will tell as I get something other than live rock and fish but most people speak pretty highly of the t5's. that is why I bought it in the first place. Again, I only bought my tank last year so take me with a grain of sand:)

[thrlride]

I paid a little over $300 for my twin 250 watt metal halides retro with two 54 watt T5's. All brand new. It can be done if you look hard enough.

[prespr]

I could not get a retro fit as I do not have a wooden hood and I agree that you can get a retro fit for same price I paid for my complete hood. But then I would have had to build or buy a hood.

Wanted to correct myself though, my lights are half 10000k and half marine blue bulbs from TOTA. And I am very happy with the color mix.