do you really need to change water

[mustang51js]

i wanted to know everyones opinion about water changes, is it really needed? i have had my tank up for about 3 months and never did any big water changes, all my params are fine and i have a fuge, isnt adding top off water enough to give some minerals back, and then add some calcium. the more i read it seems better to do a weekly change and then you read that other people dont. so im still up in the air about it. is doing maybe a 5% change good. i dont have any big containers to do a 10-15% change, thanks for any help

[fred says]

I've heard that the water which evaporates is the pure water. Meaning that you will have to do water changes and if you don't your tank will be full unpure water. Correct me if i'm wrong.

[bertoni]

The purpose of water changes is to move the tank's parameters (all of them) back towards clean saltwater. If you don't do water changes, over time, the ionic balance, etc., of the tank can shift and cause problems. For example, using some calcium additives will increase the sodium content. So I'd say it's safest to change the water regularly.

If I could change only 5% at a time, I'd do a water change once a week. There are no scientific studies, but that seems like a reasonably popular number.

[mustang51js]

thanks

[Johnnyfishkiller]

I do a 50% water change every 6 to 9 months whether I need it or not.

Everybody's happy, healthy and growing. If it's not broke, I don't fix it.

Here's a good read for you. http://www.reefs.org/library/article/t_brightbill_wc.html

[power boat jim]

I dont know of a single case of anyone doing any damage to a tank by changing water. Cant say the same for not doing water changes.

[Johnnyfishkiller]

Originally posted by power boat jim
I dont know of a single case of anyone doing any damage to a tank by changing water. Cant say the same for not doing water changes.

What about those people who ended up with bad batches of salt a few months ago. ALk was through the roof. More than one person lost their tanks. Sure they should have done a full battery of tests on the water before it went into the tank, but who actually does that? I test 2 things, salinity and temp. I'll bet 99% of all other hobbiests do the same.

Then there's the human error factor. I tried to find the thread here on RC but the search feature isn't working. Someone here lost one of the nicest tanks I've ever seen because of a water change. It was TOTM quality. It was his error that caused the crash, but the error was directly related to a water change.

Now you have 2 examples of things that I only have to worry about once or twice a year. Not 52 times or even 12.

[kenny77]

i dont do big water change but i do a weekly water change always. why because by doing that i can get rid of some nitrate and i add some element wich my coral need. also afetr adding make up water to my tank the SG lower a little bit so by doing water changes i keep the sg at 1.025

[AnemicOak]

What about those people who ended up with bad batches of salt a few months ago. ALk was through the roof. More than one person lost their tanks. Sure they should have done a full battery of tests on the water before it went into the tank, but who actually does that? I test 2 things, salinity and temp. I'll bet 99% of all other hobbiests do the same.
I could see SG & temp being the big things you check every time (maybe pH & Alk too?), but wouldn't you run a full batch of tests on the first batch of water when you start a new pail of salt? Seems like it'd be a good idea to me.

[power boat jim]

OK, I should have said any water change done properly, I thought that part would be understood. As far as bad salt goes, That was a disaster waiting to happen even if you change water only once a year, or if a new tank was set up. So maybe it is safer not to add salt or water to the aquarium when you set it up this eliminates the possibility of any errors or bad salt.

[principal skimmer]

5 gallons per week is perfect for my 90 display and my 30 sump.

[Larry Waughon]

I do a 10% every 2 weeks.

[Johnnyfishkiller]

Originally posted by power boat jim
OK, I should have said any water change done properly, I thought that part would be understood. As far as bad salt goes, That was a disaster waiting to happen even if you change water only once a year, or if a new tank was set up. So maybe it is safer not to add salt or water to the aquarium when you set it up this eliminates the possibility of any errors or bad salt.

Yes thank you for that bit of grand advice. All I'm saying is that with the increased frequency of water changes, there is an increased frequency of errors. Did anyone actually read the article that I posted a link to? If we make an example of principal skimmer (sorry you're the last one to post numbers) and his water change volume of 4.17% per week to a few of the charts that are included with the article, we'll find that it would take years to effect any real change. With that in mind, why would I risk the possiblilty of chemical or human errors more often than I had to?

I agree that people with nano tanks should change water, and lots of it, at least monthly. I just don't see the same benefit with larger tanks.

[bertoni]

Okay, before the situation starts to go down-hill, let's make sure the rhetoric stays civil.

I have read the article, and agree with it as far as it goes. Unfortunately, he doesn't consider the effect of calcium additives, etc., mostly just the macronutrients. He's right about the macronutrients, IMO, but the water changes also dilute chemical output of corals and deal with smaller-scale changes.

Likewise, the problem with larger changes is that they can be riskier in terms of shocking the animals, although some people are successful with them.

[jhcivicex]

I have a 46g with about a 10g sump. I take out 5 gallons every other week and it seems the day that im getting ready to change the water all my corals look better than after the new water sets in. Maybe im crazy but I have checked all parameters before changing the water and its not the greatest. I hope thats normal.

[principal skimmer]

no problem Johnny, i havent had any problems with th amout of water changed, so i keep it up. 6 years ive been doing this. maybe its because my DYI filer system keeps less ditrius than other tanks, i dummo?

[JENnKerry]

We change 10 gallons once a month in our 55.

[O'Coralman]

25-30 gl.....every 2-3 weeks....in my 125s....there is a difference noted in coral expansion.

[Xtasia]

JohnnyKF...

I feel that the jist of your comment is similiar to this example...

Because there could potentially be rash inducing chemicals in my freshly washed underwear (tainted salt mix), I should not change my underwear every day.

I don't neccessarily NEED to change my underwear everyday, but some people suggest it. Altho it has been suggested that changing my underwear would be better, I would rather keep on a dirty pair of underwear that is sure to not cause rashes, than to freshen up with a pair that MAY cause me a rash.

<blinks>

[Xtasia]

oh.. and its' due to human error in laundering my panties, that cause me to be so concerned....


IMHO, For error, there is also diligence and quality assurance. You've heard the horror stories, so you should know the value of testing your water from a new bucket before using it in your tank. With everything we do in this hobby, we are fully aware that each thing that goes into the tank will have a direct effect on its inhabitants.

We should be diligent in checking EVEYRTHING that goes into the tank, be it food, livestock, our hands, water.... EVERYTHING..

2 cents plus 14% sales tax.

[thrlride]

I change about 15% of my water once every week or two. My water looks clearer afterwards and the corals look happier.

[O'Coralman]

thrlride....she is a cute(your avatar)....boy are you gonna have fun when males other than you start paying attention. I just got my first grand daughter....she like her mother will be trained to kick tail if needed....you should consider this:p I am going to be in Charlotte.....for an Irish Stepdancing comp.....in Dec.(3-5). It would be fun to cross paths...PM me if so and I'll give you contact info. I wiil be trying to qualify(with my youngest son of 17).....for the National Championships. I have been told it is entirelly possible:rollface: and the Worlds are also in my sights......Steve

[thrlride]

Thanks Steve! Hopefully I have a long time before I have to worry about that, she is only 22 months old right now.

Where are they having the Irish Stepdancing Comp? I might be able to arrange a meeting. Maybe show you some of the LFS's around here.

Ryan

[O'Coralman]

I will pm you on this.... Ryan is my son-n-laws name....you know the one who is blind...but we went there awhile back.....no need to return. Seeing the LFS would be cool......later.

[Xtasia]

hah..thats the weirdest thing! I was delighted to see more post to this thread, but I came in to find stepdancing...

Anyways.. back onto water change discussion...

[thrlride]

Sorry about that Xtasia!

[MichaelMichelson]

I couldn't imagine not doing water changes. I do 5 gal. every week on my 55 FOWLR (only 42 gal of water in the systerm). When I take the water out of the tank and fill up a 5 gallon bucket, and compare it to the RoDi water I'm about to put in the tank, there's no questioning which one is better. The old water is yellowish in tink. All of my parameters are under control, but you can tell which water is better for the system. Besides, I try to clean out all of my media (filter, sponge before the skimmer, filter on bottem of one of the powerheads) in the dirty water. Always good to try and keep those things semi clean, but still have the bacteria in them. Like most of us, I'll have atleast one tank the rest of my life, and I'll always be religious on water changes.

[O'Coralman]

Originally posted by Xtasia
hah..thats the weirdest thing! I was delighted to see more post to this thread, but I came in to find stepdancing...

Anyways.. back onto water change discussion...

:hammer: I did put in an offtopic disclaimer:D .......I have been drinking too much cola....time to change water:D .....excuse me. you must be of scottish extraction......we Irish understand. The bagpipe by the way was ment as a joke.....The Scotts just did'nt catch on. Since we are off topic....Ireland was just named to safest and happiest place in the world to live....herehttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6529893/

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Originally posted by Xtasia
hah..thats the weirdest thing! I was delighted to see more post to this thread, but I came in to find stepdancing...

Anyways.. back onto water change discussion...

Imagine the people who came in here looking for waterchange discussion but instead found a post mentioning underwear rashes! :eek1:

Back on topic - you can mess up at any point in the hobby. What if I trip when I'm feeding the fish and accidentally dump the whole can of food in? oops.

In addition, take a look at an analysis of "trace" elements from a salt mix some day. Are you dosing every single one of those and testing for the level of each? Certainly not. So how do you plan on keeping them at the proper levels?

[NewbieDeb]

Originally posted by O'Coralman
25-30 gl.....every 2-3 weeks....in my 125s....there is a difference noted in coral expansion.

Same here. Yesterday was my waterchange day. I drain about 1/3 of the tank and add new SW. With the wc yesterday, a Chili Coral that I aquired 2 weeks ago tomorrow, FINALLY fully opened. He absolutly LOVED the wc! I was so excited to see him so big and full.

There's not much information to be had on Chili Corals so it's more of a guess on how to care for him, but he's with me for 2 weeks now and still the same as he was when I got him.

I would say water changes are necessary because of the trace elements that need to be replenished. My father in law agrees. He's a chemist.

[O'Coralman]

Originally posted by NewbieDeb
Same here. Yesterday was my waterchange day. I drain about 1/3 of the tank and add new SW. With the wc yesterday, a Chili Coral that I aquired 2 weeks ago tomorrow, FINALLY fully opened. He absolutly LOVED the wc! I was so excited to see him so big and full.

There's not much information to be had on Chili Corals so it's more of a guess on how to care for him, but he's with me for 2 weeks now and still the same as he was when I got him.

I would say water changes are necessary because of the trace elements that need to be replenished. My father in law agrees. He's a chemist.

Debbi....I too am a chemist(Chem E).....and the 1/3 is a great amount.....'specially if you make your own water....as I do. 50 to 60 gl can get you every two weeks in the pocket....my LFS charges 1 buck per gl(after 100 they give you 10 free)......................I just DI.....my water where i live is excellant and RO(the waste is awefull) is necesary for me. Oh and thanks for helping me get back on topic :rollface:
Steve

[O'Coralman]

Originally posted by Xtasia
JohnnyKF...

I feel that the jist of your comment is similiar to this example...

Because there could potentially be rash inducing chemicals in my freshly washed underwear (tainted salt mix), I should not change my underwear every day.

I don't neccessarily NEED to change my underwear everyday, but some people suggest it. Altho it has been suggested that changing my underwear would be better, I would rather keep on a dirty pair of underwear that is sure to not cause rashes, than to freshen up with a pair that MAY cause me a rash.

<blinks>
Imagine coming here to find out about water changes and end up reading about soiled panties and rashes.....I believe you also are off topic...or something.....throwing stones while we live in a glass house......now now!:mixed:

[Drano]

To change or not to change? Depends....

But seriously folks, I can't imagine not changing the water regularly, testing it often and keeping the chemistry right.

A thread on another forum asks the question about vacuuming during/before a water change. I'd like to hear people's thoughts about where they put the water (directly in the tank; in the sump; etc.) and how they put the water in to avoid a lot of stuff getting stirred up.

Oh...I'll seeya in Charlotte, thrlride; I'll be there too! I'll pm ya :rollface:

--Gayle

[thrlride]

I only have a 29 now and it has no sump so I only add to the display. I lightly vacuum the top layer of sand when I do a water change. In fact, I have to do that tomorrow.

[scooters reef]

I must admit, I am lazy, and having operated many tanks, of many sizes, for around 30 years I have not always kept up with water changes as much as I should.

I'm no chemist, but as a child my father explained the reasoning to me this way: (This was long before RO/DI was even mentioned in any magazines of the time). There are many impurities in tap water, even poisons and heavy metals. They are in such small amounts they don't hurt us or the fish. However, as water evaporates the concentration increases. When the tank is just topped off, more impurities are added. Through time the concentrations can rise to unhealthy or lethal doses. So, even if all tests and appears fine, I "try" to keep up with regular water changes.

Obviously, the widespread use of RO now has greatly reduced the danger of not doing changes (as compared with tap water). However, even RO/DI is not 100% pure. Also, I don't think anything we add to our systems is ever 100% pure. It would be far too expensive for a manufacturer to even attempt going that far. Salt mixes, food, and other additives are all likely to have impurities that are no problem, until they accumulate and reach a higher concentration. For some above that base it soley on test results, did you test for arsenic, mercury, and how many other substances there could be that are harmful? With no way to test for these, I've always felt safer doing changes even if they are on my own haphazard schedule of "when I feel like it."

[thrlride]

Well put Scooters Reef.

[Johnnyfishkiller]

Originally posted by Xtasia
JohnnyKF...

I feel that the jist of your comment is similiar to this example...

Because there could potentially be rash inducing chemicals in my freshly washed underwear (tainted salt mix), I should not change my underwear every day.

I don't neccessarily NEED to change my underwear everyday, but some people suggest it. Altho it has been suggested that changing my underwear would be better, I would rather keep on a dirty pair of underwear that is sure to not cause rashes, than to freshen up with a pair that MAY cause me a rash.

<blinks>

You missed a couple of key points here. First, in your example you would be changing 100% of your underwear every day. To make the analogy work, you would have to change 10% of your underwear every day without regard to which 10% you changed the day before. In fact, as soon as you changed 10% of your underwear the clean fibers would mix with the dirty fibers and make it impossible to avoid changing some of the clean 10% the next day. The end result is that you NEVER have clean underwear on except for the first day you started wearing underwear. Second, you left out the possibility of an wardrobe malfunction. If the underwear were installed incorrectly after the 10% change there could be significant discomfort. The part of your analogy that will never work however is that a wardrobe malfunction will never cause your death. Even a small malfunction would not cause the death of your invertibrates. I think if death or death of the invertibrates were a possibility, you would just as soon go commando.

Deb - I agree with your water change method. A 30% change is enough to make a difference. 5 gallons in 120 gallons of water IMO isn't enough to make it worth while.

[O'Coralman]

Originally posted by Johnnyfishkiller
You missed a couple of key points here. First, in your example you would be changing 100% of your underwear every day. To make the analogy work, you would have to change 10% of your underwear every day without regard to which 10% you changed the day before. In fact, as soon as you changed 10% of your underwear the clean fibers would mix with the dirty fibers and make it impossible to avoid changing some of the clean 10% the next day. The end result is that you NEVER have clean underwear on except for the first day you started wearing underwear. Second, you left out the possibility of an wardrobe malfunction. If the underwear were installed incorrectly after the 10% change there could be significant discomfort. The part of your analogy that will never work however is that a wardrobe malfunction will never cause your death. Even a small malfunction would not cause the death of your invertibrates. I think if death or death of the invertibrates were a possibility, you would just as soon go commando.

Deb - I agree with your water change method. A 30% change is enough to make a difference. 5 gallons in 120 gallons of water IMO isn't enough to make it worth while.

jfk....:lol: dude there is supurb logic in your words.....I think 30% judging from my corals and that method....works for me

Steve

[power boat jim]

Cant believe someone tried to mathmatically analyze the whole underwear post and is trying to tie the death of inverts with going commando. Please tell me it is a joke,Right?

I must admit, this is one of the most interisting posts I have ever seen.

[power boat jim]

Sorry, ment to say threads not posts, my bad.

[Johnnyfishkiller]

Originally posted by power boat jim
Cant believe someone tried to mathmatically analyze the whole underwear post and is trying to tie the death of inverts with going commando. Please tell me it is a joke,Right?

I must admit, this is one of the most interisting posts I have ever seen.

If someone is going to try to ridicule me by making an analogy such as changing ones underwear, then I'm going to make sure that the analogy is accurate. The death of inverts was my way of trying to remain politically correct as this is a family board. If you need me to draw you a map, I can pm you with the less than pc version.

And yes, it was tongue in cheek. Some people got it.......

[power boat jim]

Easy on the venom dude, dont get your inverts in a knot. Sorry I misunderstood,sometimes its hard to know when you are kidding and when you arent. Noone needs takes this stuff quite so personal. I will now refrain from any further responses other than the technical sort.

[Johnnyfishkiller]

My apologies Jim. As you know, sometimes a person's tone doesn't transmit very well over the message board. I'm sure you didn't mean anything the way that I read it, and when I read my post again I can see that I was out of line. It didn't seem that bad when I wrote it, but it is that bad.

Will one of the Mods please eliminate the offending post? That is if it's possible without deleting the whole thread as parts of it can be entertaining.

[power boat jim]

JFK, apolgy accepted, That is the trouble with reading stuff off a tube. A dry sense of humor doesnt always translate. I think that may have been the problem for me. Anyway, back to helping those who have yet to spend as much money as we have in this hobby.

[O'Coralman]

Originally posted by power boat jim
Cant believe someone tried to mathmatically analyze the whole underwear post and is trying to tie the death of inverts with going commando. Please tell me it is a joke,Right?

I must admit, this is one of the most interisting posts I have ever seen.

fellas you have given me an idea......since there was(and quite popular) a thread on peeing the shower and beyond.....maybe we should go to the lounge with a "How Often Do You Change your Underwer" thread:lol: maybe someone will tie-in water change frequency....or is that break water:rollface: We have seen worse and all got a good laugh.......me I change mine everyday....or more:D Depends..........

Steve:bounce1:

[Johnnyfishkiller]

Depends huh?? Do they even count as underwear or are they a supplement? Remember don't add supplements unless you can test for their need.

[abfleck]

Originally posted by mustang51js
i wanted to know everyones opinion about water changes, is it really needed? i have had my tank up for about 3 months and never did any big water changes, all my params are fine and i have a fuge, isnt adding top off water enough to give some minerals back, and then add some calcium. the more i read it seems better to do a weekly change and then you read that other people dont. so im still up in the air about it. is doing maybe a 5% change good. i dont have any big containers to do a 10-15% change, thanks for any help

Yes.......water changes are important. Please do them or you will be sorry!

[O'Coralman]

Originally posted by Johnnyfishkiller
Depends huh?? Do they even count as underwear or are they a supplement? Remember don't add supplements unless you can test for their need.
:lol: I will keep that in mind:D

[O'Coralman]

Originally posted by abfleck
Yes.......water changes are important. Please do them or you will be sorry!

write that down.....things in a reef happen quick.....water changes are a good maint. thing....right on abfleck....safe over sorry

[greenbean36191]

I wrote a nice long reply to this earlier, but somehow it got screwed up when I tried to post it, so hopefully this try will work.

Yes.......water changes are important. Please do them or you will be sorry!

IMO comments like this are based on the brainwashing we get as newbies (when it IS important because things are changing so fast and chemistry can be confusing) and sketchy, mostly unsupported reasoning. I doubt any of the people advocating 5% weekly waterchanges have even tried going a much longer period of time without a WC. Show me an established, stable, thriving tank that has had a catastrophe because of a lack of WCs (and don't tell me there aren't any stable thriving tanks without WCs, because I know better). Unless your tank is packed, I really don't think weekly or even monthly WC are needed once you know what you're doing. I don't think you can go forever without a change, but changes every week seem ridiculous to me, especially with the minimal effect they have on the tank.

My tank is mostly SPS with a few LPS and even a BTA. It went the first 7 months with no WC and when I finally did one there was no noticable change. Just out of curiosity I continued the WCs weekly for the rest of the month, still with no noticable difference. I haven't done a change since early August and my coralline is out of control, my corals are growing faster than ever (except two acros that had a recent case of red bugs), and I've never had any algae problems.

One of the members of one of the clubs I'm in only changes water in his 260 acro tank once a year and his corals are some of the best I've seen.

I think trying to reason why anyone who doesn't follow your WC regimine is doomed without any experience or objective analysis shows the close-mindedness of the hobby (...well you don't do the same thing I do so things must be building up or being depleted... or something... so your wrong and everything will die...). Doctors use to say that high speed travel would be impossible because we wouldn't be able to breathe and look at us now. Sometime sketchy logic just doesn't stand up to personal experience.

Rant over, now flame on and tell me how soon my corals will die.:D

[Xtasia]

God, I'm sorry I used the farging underwear example. It was the only way I could think to explain my confusion over theories against water changes. I did not choose underwear to ridicule Johny's post, merely to offer a devil's advocate view.

I don't feel it was off topic as it was hmm a metaphor(?) for what I was trying to explain.

Mustang, I found your argument amusing. but I would argue that if you changed 10% of your panty (via panty liner) would be much fresher than if you didn't change your panty at all...

I've only recently started adding my 2 cents into these posts to reefcentral, and I regret that I have.

[mustang51js]

but what if your filtration is very good, and you add the right amount of trace elements, then would anything be wrong, and doesnt other things get used by the inhabitants, does anyone know what elements are left in the water after it evaporates that filtration wouldnt get rid off and would be harmful to the fish.

in a way you would never have to change your panty liner if you had a filter in there to keep them clean, and you shouldnt regret saying your opinion because i've learned alot from people like you, because everyone has different ways of doing things and thats where i learn this stuff from
thanks

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Originally posted by mustang51js
but what if your filtration is very good, and you add the right amount of trace elements, then would anything be wrong, and doesnt other things get used by the inhabitants, does anyone know what elements are left in the water after it evaporates that filtration wouldnt get rid off and would be harmful to the fish.

1) Show me filtration that can actually accomplish that

2) Show me the list of trace elements you're going to monitor and the levels you're going to keep them at.

Seriously, not changing water and then trying to actually monitor *all* the stuff you'd need to would seem counterproductive. Look at the list of elements in a bag of salt mix and then try to find test kits for all that stuff - and that's only the "good" stuff - now, try to find test kits for all that stuff, too - or even an exhaustive list of what you'd need to be looking for.

In the end, doing waterchanges is a pretty failsafe way to keep *everything* in your tank in check. It won't keep every single parameter spot on, but it will surely do a very good job at keeping a VERY large number of parameters within reasonable limits.

I've only recently started adding my 2 cents into these posts to reefcentral, and I regret that I have.

I hope you change you mind - some people get too worked up over internet forums. Stuff like your undies analogy brings a breath of fresh air, even if other people want to tear it apart. ;)

[Johnnyfishkiller]

Originally posted by Xtasia
God, I'm sorry I used the farging underwear example. It was the only way I could think to explain my confusion over theories against water changes. I did not choose underwear to ridicule Johny's post, merely to offer a devil's advocate view.

I don't feel it was off topic as it was hmm a metaphor(?) for what I was trying to explain.

Mustang, I found your argument amusing. but I would argue that if you changed 10% of your panty (via panty liner) would be much fresher than if you didn't change your panty at all...

I've only recently started adding my 2 cents into these posts to reefcentral, and I regret that I have.

I wasn't the least bit offended that you used underwear as an example, I just saw some rather large holes in your analogy. A better analogy may have been a flu shot.
Many doctors reccomend that you get one even though you may not have any medical problems at the time. Do some people benefit from them? yes. Do some people contract the flu anyway? yes. Do some people actually get the flu as a direct result of the shot? yes. Do some people have an adverse reaction to the shot? yes. Do some people have a bad enough reaction to die from it? yes. If you elect not to get a flu shot, are you treated as though you are a danger to yourself and those around you? no.

By all means continue posting here. It's good to have someone with a sense of humor on here. Just be prepared to defend your position down to the last pair of soiled panties.:D

Everyone needs to remember that there are 10,000 ways to run a reef tank. Most of them are right as well as wrong. The only one that works every time is the one that mother nature runs.

[bertoni]

To greenbean36191:

You raise a good point. Some people seem to manage without water changes, or at least with infrequent changes. Many variables enter the pictures: how do you dose Ca and alkalinity, what kind of corals do you have, etc.

So when I started, I ran my tanks for quite a while without water changes. Over time, I decided that with the chemical I was using, etc., they'd be a good idea. 2-part additives and calcium chloride were part of the issue. Soft coral toxins, etc., were another.

In any case, sadly, there's unlikely to be any scientific studies on the issue. I don't know what percent of reef-keepers don't bother with water changes, but I've decided not to run that risk.

[Acolin]

There are indeed studies showing how much water change is effective on new and established aquariums. A recent study was published just this year in Freshwater And Marine Aquarium magazine. On a newly established aquarium, less than six months old, with new pets added frequently, water parameters should be tested regularly. Test and change water weekly when you are adding creatures; monthly when you are not. New pets should be added only when nitrites and nitrates measure their lowest levels. Once the miniature tropical marine reef aquarium is fully stocked and established, which can take years with slow additions, then the nitrite and nitrate levels indicate the need and amount of necessary water changes.

At the minimum, if nitrite or nitrate levels are too high for fish or live corals, clean the filters, vacuum up bottom waste and change 25 to 50% of the aquarium water with fresh aerated saltwater of the same temperature. The smaller the percentage of water changed, the less valuable the water change. However, the more water that is changed, the more dangerous or stressful the change can be for reef inhabitants. Two typical paint buckets changes six to ten gallons – about right for a 29-gallon reef. Continue with weekly tests and water changes of 25 to 50% until the nitrite and nitrate diminish to safe levels. Thereafter, test monthly and make water changes as often as you can; ideally 25-50% each time, monthly, if NOT weekly.

For trace element replacement, quarterly changes of a bucket or two should suffice. When I was a smarter and had larger tanks, I kept a new garbage can with a cheap air pump, for 25-gallon supply of freshly aerated saltwater mixed and ready to go in my basement. Weekly, I would vacuum the main display tank in the living room into the bucket, toss the old saltwater out, add filtered water to the garbage can and pitch in a cup or two of ocean salt. The process took about 15 minutes.

[Drano]

Acolin, thanks for that reply. I'm about to establish a 75-gallon reef, and your answers are getting printed out, laminated and posted on my wall above the tank! Thanks again!

:rollface:

--gayle

[manderx]

any waterchange less than 25% is worthless in my opinion. nitrates aren't as good a measure anymore on overall 'water quality' with the better skimmers and fuges that are commonplace these days, resulting in much lower nitrates (many of us have no detectable nitrates, but that doesn't mean our water is perfect and doesn't need to be changed). what i'm worried about is other 'stuff' that we can't measure easily or even understand, whether it's something that is depleted or something that's toxic.

[Drano]

what i'm worried about is other 'stuff' that we can't measure easily or even understand, whether it's something that is depleted or something that's toxic

Is that stuff which hasn't been identified yet? Or stuff that has been identified but is not yet quantifiable. I guess what I'm asking is how extensive or complete is the research on that which could be found in artificial salt water.

[O'Coralman]

Some very valid points have been made on both sides of this issue....the answer lies in the water itself. We have addressed the quantifable things and the results of each individual here and thier own methods.... again all very valid. So where is the answer? I think we must look deeper and ask ourselves.....Does the water really want to change?:D

Steve:dance:

[Drano]

I think we must look deeper and ask ourselves.....Does the water really want to change?

Only if it's bright enough to realise it NEEDS to change if it will ever be happy.

Which brings us to the question of Metal Halides....

:rollface:

--gayle

[Rueg]

I do 10 gallons a week on my 180 gallon. Is it making a difference? Beats me. Certainly isn't hurting anything. One of the most successful aquariums I had (120 gallon) I hardly ever did water changes on. There are so many things in salt mixes we can't test for. So many different types of metals and what not. I don't think research has really been done on this. There were some water studies done a while back. I think it was done by Schimek and focused on metals. I am sick of doing water changes weekly but I will keep doing them. I have a hair algae problem right now. I think what it comes down to is how your tank and inhabitants are doing. You have an algae, parasite or some other type of problem? Then you should do water changes because there is something in there that needs to be removed. If everything is doing great then don't do changes as often. Toxins in the water build up slowly. If the water is building up in toxins there should be signs of stress on the inhabitants. If after a water change the corals look better, then you probably want to do the water changes. If you don't notice a difference then don't do them as often. It just depends on how the system is doing. There is no one answer.

[Rueg]

Another thing too is additives. If you are not adding calcium and other items separatly that corals need to grow then you should be doing water changes to replenish the items. If you are then if everything is going great then less frequent water changes are probably fine. Base it on how the inhabitants are doing. If there was only one answer to these types of questions and it was easy to keep reef aquariums then we wouldn't need this bb. And how fun would that be? :)

[Drano]

If there was only one answer to these types of questions and it was easy to keep reef aquariums then we wouldn't need this bb. And how fun would that be?

Ah, Ruegg, so what you're saying is that reefkeeping is more art than science! Works for meh :thumbsup:

[wahshk]

In my experience, the less water change the better. I do change 5-10% every two weeks, but some times I let the tank set for a month with no change just to give the microscopic creatures a chance to thrive with the extra nutrients in the water column. I used to have a FO 55G tank for more than 10 years with not a single water change.

[wahshk]

Oh, I just add make up water. Not a single fish died. This is of caurse at the time I never knew that water change was good. I never heard of ammonia or nitrate too nor phosphate. I didn't have test kits then.

[power boat jim]

All I know is that since I do weekly water changes I no longer need to add calcium, strontium and all those oter things hard coral rapidly consume. And I dont understand why some people START to worry about water changes when nitrate levels start to get high, weekly changes dont usually allow the levels to get high in the first place, thats why a 10% change does no good when levels hit 20ppm. Just my 2cents.

[O'Coralman]

All I know is that since I do weekly water changes I no longer need to add calcium, strontium and all those oter things hard coral rapidly consume.

That's a pretty good reason to do the weekly water changes. Since soft corals don't need so much calcium, etc. I wonder if the method of doing fewer water changes...on the theory that microorganisms could be a good thing... might be worth considering, if the reef was all soft coral?

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Originally posted by O'Coralman
I wonder if the method of doing fewer water changes...on the theory that microorganisms could be a good thing... might be worth considering, if the reef was all soft coral?

The vast majority of micro-life - wether bacteria or 'pods, etc - live on or very near the substrate in our tanks, so we don't really have to worry about physically removing them by doing water changes.

Are we killing them off by removing too many nutrients when we do water changes? I don't think so. We're constantly dumping *tons* of nutrients into our tanks on a regular basis (fish food) and, basically, we're in a constant struggle to remove all that stuff from our tanks. Consider the fact that it's basically impossible to maintain a tank at NSW levels in respect to nutrients in the water column (specifically nitrogen and phosphorus) so it's not like we're restricting the micro-life any more than they'd be restricted in their natural environment.

Plus, it's a known and obvious fact that the majority of the corals (and fish, to a lesser extent) do better when the water contains lower levels of those nutrients. So even if the higher levels were better for some form of micro-life in the tank, do we want to stunt the growth of our corals to accomplish that?