HQI Halogen DIY Fixture Working! (many pictures and details)

[jgwinner]

Folks:

As I mentioned in a couple of other threads, my DIY HQI Fixture is up and running :dance:

I'm using a 500w Halogen outdoor 'yard light' fixture. Here's a picture of the inside without the internal reflector or glass, showing how I cut away the metal retaining brackets for the Halogen ceramic holders to make room for the HQI holders:

http://www.dazsi.net/images/_tmp/fixture-bare-1.jpg

I used a dremel moto-tool with a ceramic cutting wheel to cut the aluminum flanges off - you can see the bright silver areas where there were these halogen holder flanges.

It took about 2-3 days to carve this out; it's a bit tight in there. My other plan was to cut off the 'top' where the new ceramic would go and bolt from the top. This might be easier; or attaching a plate to the fixture. The holders I got did NOT have the connecting bar though, so I needed something to hold them at the right distance - thus the holes.

You might see four holes where I put some stainless screws to hold the ceramic HQI holders:

Another view showing both ends and the holes:
http://www.dazsi.net/images/_tmp/fixture-bare-center.jpg
Here it is with the holders loosly assembled

Here
http://www.dazsi.net/images/_tmp/fixture-ends-close.jpg

Now, the complete fixture with screws loosly assembled, the aluminum reflector that came with it, and my Dog's leg for scale(25 lbs of beligerant pug :p ) :

http://www.dazsi.net/images/_tmp/fixture-assembled-1.jpg

Note that I had no way to orient the 'nipple' :cool: as the holders only fit in one way.

I then put the plate of glass that came with the fixture back - it withstands the heat fine and already has a couple of small water spots on it - so it's withstood small splashes.

The bulb is closer to the glass than I'd like - the only way to move it back would be to cut a larger hole in the fixture.

However, with the bulb where it is, it defocuses the light JUST PERFECTLY to cover the bottom of a 24x24x48" tank. The light is approx 10" above the tank. I used the cover from an outdoor light socket to screw the end of the fixture into - if you have more room, you could just use a junction box as is. (I wanted the fixture as high as possible).

I am running this on the L&N 250 watt ballast from Lamps Now. I am also running a 250w Mogul base Ushio 10K bulb on a standard Advance ANSI ballast (I forget if it's M58 or M59, the correct one).

When I first fired up the fixture, I had it sitting on the carpet for about 15 minutes, and the entire fixture was cool enough to put my hands on. However, after running for a longer time, the fixture does get quite hot. I have a fan blowing across the front of the glass; it reduces the heat considerably and doesn't seem to change the color or intensity of the light.

The light is definitly brighter and bluer than the 250w.

The Halogen fixture I've had for probably 15 years, so I don't know if it's exactly like the ones you could get now at Home Depot / etc, but it should be pretty similar, as these longer halogen bulbs are pretty standard.

Whoo Hoo! Time for a cold one :beer:

== John ==

[jasonchi]

Hey, how do you like that, we posted it about the same time. And We have the exactly the same setup :)

I didn't take time to sand off the surface of the fixture, I just brake them off. I got the 250W socket with the center brace, I drilled a hold in the middle of the fixture and mounted it that way.

You are right, the fixture gets VERY HOT!!!. like touching an oven.
The LN Ballast gets a little hot as well, but it's touchable temperature, unlike the fixture.

I got the fixture from HD, it's also 500W ones. the internal structure looks almost identical to the one you have. they go for $12.

Compare to the ones PFO's Double-ended mini-pendant. I think we've done a pretty decent job :)

[jgwinner]

I know, it's pretty funny!

As you noted, I couldn't just break off the little tabs as I needed a flat base - yours is superior if you order the brackets with the bar! When I ordered the brackets he didn't have the little bar, and I didn't feel like buying another set. It took a long time to grind down the aluminum, so when I do this again in a year (when my mogul bulb gets old) I will use your method. Probably I'll use the same fixture too :) I would have gotten the white one, but this one was 'off the shelf' (literally :))

== John ==

[Fazm79]

Damn impressive guys. Do you think it’s too hot in there? I’m well aware that in order to operate efficiently HQI needs to run in a hot environment, but do you think drilling some holes for ventilation would be detrimental to the quality of light you receive? I was thinking if it was too hot it might reduce the quality of light as well as the lifespan of the bulb. Also has anyone toyed with different ballasts, such as PFO, Hamilton, Icecap, etc? I was planning on going the same route, except attaching a heat sink to the casing or drilling holes to allow for some heat dissipation. So how high do you think the bulb will have to be from my water level if I want to illuminate a 2X2X2 cube of water?

[jgwinner]

I have no worries about the heat - the fixture encloses the quartz bulb completly and all the heat is thus inside the Aluminum enclosure. Those halogen fixtures get plenty hot - a 500w halogen bulb, being incandescent, probably puts out more heat than the 250w HQI anyway, even if the HQI inner quartz vial is pretty hot (3000).

The only reason I left a fan blowing on the fixture or near it was because the fixture was making the VHO bulbs and the top of hte tank fairly warm to the touch.

== John ==

[piercho]

I just want to say that I am impressed and envious. Sure wish that DIY HQI thread got started before I bought all my parts for Iwasakis. Keep us posted how that LN holds up for you over the long haul.

[David Grigor]

Interesting comment about the color. I have 400W versions of Ushio 10K running on a blueline ballast and the color is virtually the same. Couldn't really tell anykind of difference myself ( color that is ) .

I have the 250W DE HQI Ushio 10K with 150W of VHO actinic running on my prop. tank now for a little over a month. Coral coloration is so so ( IMO ) but still waiting to give it more of a chance. Most cases I like the parent colony under the 20K Radium show tank a better ( Only exception being a pinks birdsnest ). Biggest difference has been a lime green milepora under 20K looks blah under the 10K HQI.

[Roadtoad]

Great post!

I was wondering if you would like to create a complete parts/price list/basic instruction manual so I dont forget anything when I start ordering.

[jgwinner]

The parts I used were old, but you can substitute the 'regent' fixture; Jason used this and it seemed to work (see his post).

1 250w L&N Ballast, from Lamps Now
1 HQI socket, with bracket, from Lamps Now.
1 250w Ushio double ended bulb (Lamps Now)

tools:
pliers,
screwdrivers as appropriate
wirenuts,
elec tape, etc.

My version:
4 Stainless steel bolts of the right length (check it, my fixture you won't get), plus 8 nuts.
Drill bit to drill above hole
Dremel moto-tool with cut off wheels (use the heavy duty / fiberglass coated one)
WEAR EYE PROTECTION THE WHEELS WILL, NOT MIGHT, EXPLODE.

NOTE: if you use the Regent fixture and the HQI socket with bracket, you may not need the above - just break off the inside flanges with the pliers.


wirenuts

If you need extra wire: Oven repair wire from an appliance store (I didn't need any).

I think that was it.

== John ==

[Roadtoad]

Thanks JGwinner

[Scleractinian]

Coincidences... serendipity. I just finished my 150w HQI version... saw another DIY HQI post about using a Regent halogen luminaire, realized I wasn't as uniquely intelligent as I had though ( :( ). You even figured out my secret: breaking off the extraneous bits with pliers. :)

So... my 150w will run cooler than your 250's will, but I'm still worried about the lamp being so close to the glass. Any problems with yours so far?

Also, I intend to install 2 or 3 of these (I have them built, just waiting to get water back in the tank...) on a 58 Oceanic Reef Ready. Planning on Fast growing Acros and Montis... Think I'll need actininc supplemeentation with these (Ushios)?

Anybody?

[jgwinner]

I actually had this idea over 5 years ago, but didn't have the HQI ballast to run them, or the lamp holders! Ideas are cheap, I can't really take credit for it - it's the doing that's important.

In any event, my glass has been working fine :) ! It does get hot though, so I have a fan that blows on it, but the fan cycle and the light cycle aren't equivalent, so the glass by itself has no problems with the heat. A halogen 500w fixture gets VERY hot as well, I'd say hotter, although I haven't done formal temperature tests.

Given that an incandescent is mostly IR, I'd think a 500w Halogen would be much hotter longer term than even a 250w HQI MH bulb.

I have some 'rain gutter' plastic covers as small reflectors over some VHO's on the tank; the top of the rain gutter is the brown plastic. Oddly, some of the brown plastic (paint?) looks 'UV faded' although it could be from heat also.

By the way, I used a dremel moto-tool to cut off and actually flatten the 'extraneous bits' . I think that Jason's method is better, that little metal bar on the other fixture doesn't require any of the cutting and stuff.

== John ==

[Scleractinian]

John, have any pics of the fixtures as installed and/or your whole system? How'd you mount or hang them?

[jgwinner]

Actually, I don't, although I have some fairly detailed pictures of the tank stand itself (do a search, about the same time I posted this thread). The top is more or less the same architecture.

Right now, I just have a wooden 'box' around the top with the light mounted to a board over the top. The fixture is about 8" from the top of the acrylic tank.

When I finish it I'll post pictures - still working on the top. Slow, I know, I had some issues with the tank, which I'll post later.

== John ==

[fredman]

Have many lighting ? whats HQI? why don't people use halogen or mercury vapor? Thanks FREDMAN

[jgwinner]

Fredman, the answers to your questions have filled books.

Mercury vapor is the wrong 'color'. I myself have tried it off and on, but these HQI lights are bright, white, and good for coral growth.

HQI lights are a type of Metal Halide.

Live corals need a lot of the right wavelengths of light. Think about being underwater - everything is white or blue depending on how deep you go. (Mercury vapor is blue/green, but has a big 'red' spike to try and whiten it for our eyes, which is unnatural for the ocean).

Halogen is HORRIBLE for a reef tank. As it's incandescent, most of the light is yellow / red, and infrared. Your temperature will raise, it'll look yellow, and I actually broke a top support in a glass tank using a Halogen light once (due to the extra heat from the infra red).

Read up on reef lighting - either articles here on other areas (most DIY's already know what kind of lighting they want), or in the general reef section.

== John ==

[drscheck]

I see everyone is using the "Regent fixtures" to enclose their HQI's.

Has anyone tried building wooden fixtures, or do the bulbs create too much heat for this?

[jgwinner]

Actually, I didn't use a regent fixture and I give specific mention of this. However, I use something similar to the Regent fixture (it's still a 500w outdoor Halogen fixture).

I have seen some people use wood, but you need forced cooling or need to have standoffs between the wood and the reflector.

That's not the big issue though - the big issue is the UV protection. Some HQI bulbs have no UV protection. You need to enclose the bulb in something that filters out the UV, or have potentially permanent vision issues.

== John ==

[drscheck]

I understnad the UV problems with these bulbs, I was thinking that you could router out slots just above the bottom edge of the wooden fixture, parralel with the bottom that you could slide a piece of glass into.

[jgwinner]

I believe that would work.

I think some people are actually doing that, I think there's a screen shot on PFO's site??? Not sure. My fixture is done so I'm not shopping around any more ;)

== John ==

[DerrickT]

Where are the pics? ;)

Anyways, I plan to drive a 150HQI with an Adance Ansi M81 ballast. Has anyone tried this? How many of those pendent should be use to cover 48"?


Thanks! Great job, guys.

[jgwinner]

Ack :eek1: time flies, still haven't finished the top :rolleyes:

I do not believe that the M81 will work, but I have not tried it.

== John ==

[DerrickT]

Nevermind. Actually I think that will work. All the 150 HQI bulbs I've seen use M81 to run them. I will try it and let you know how it goes. So how many of those pendents are used on your tanks?

[afss]

can someone post a total cost break down for the complete setup, especially the cost of the differrent bulbs etc.
Thanks
Scott

[BSHANE651]

NEW TO THEW HOBBY AND ON A BUDGET UNFORTUNATEKY
I HAVE A 37 TALL TANK AND ONLY 3 FLOURESCENT TUBES (COST FACTOR), UNFORANTUNATELY MY TANK LENGTH IS ONLY 30 INCHES
WHICH ONLY ALLOWS FOR 24 INCH TUBES AT 20 WATTS EACH THIS ISNT MUCH LIGHT AT ALL, I DID SWAP OUT ONE
FIXTURE FOR A 25" BRIGH STICK @33 WATTS TOTAL WATTAGE NOW 73 WATTS, AND AND TRYING TO EITHER RAISE MY LIGHT CHEAPLY OR FIND SOME INEXPENSIVE CORALS THAT CAN THRIVE ON THIS AMOUNT OF LIGHT, ANY IDEAS

[tdksound2005]

hi guys iam planning to light my 2x2x2 cube with lowbay 250 watts metal halides. what bulb do you think i should go for.
and has anyone tryed these units plz let me know if they get to hot etc.

[ficklefins]

I have this setup right now in my room, and it gets really hot! I have bumped it a few times without burning myself, but it gets pretty hot and I wouldn't touch it on purpose.

I don't know what you mean by bulb. Each bulb has its own specific color spectrum and your choice may differ according to what you want to get out of it. I went with the 14k Phoenix 250w DE bulb because it gave great light to my zoanthids without any extra bulbs. Great bulb, but it leans more towards the blue end then what you would consider natural light.

[sharemaster]

Guys to solve the heat problem buy a decent pc processor cooler, coolermaster or similar.
Attach it to the rear of the fitting, if possible use a dremel or sandpaper to remove the paint and make metal contact on the casing. High temperature epoxy should hold it but fasten it also I used screws and metal brackets so I can unclip it if neede. The amount of cooling is quite substantial and will make it almost touchable.

Now in repayment for this magical method ;)
I need to build one of these but am from the UK so hard to source parts any web addresses for the holders etc?

cheers
Scott

[jgwinner]

Sharemaster:

Have you actually tried that?

A Metal Halide bulb is hot enough to melt glass, which is one of the reasons it's behind a quartz envelope. They put out a lot of heat. Attaching a coller to the rear of the fitting won't help the heat going out as IR out of the front of the unit. Putting your hands on the top of a tank 8" from my light fixture is uncomfortably hot, and touching the front of the unit would burn your fingers.

No offense but I doubt it would help that much.

I use a 120v fan to cool down the inside of the hood. Still a temporary hood though.

On the bulbs, I like both the 10K's (white) as well as the 14 and 20K's which are more bluish. I have a 10K and a 20K over my 120G now, and they look pretty good.

== John ==

[ficklefins]

Scott,

I got my parts from
www.reefgeek.com &
www.oceanencounter.com

Also, that is a good suggestion for cooling the pendant, I just don't think I would try it (or have the spare parts). But working in IT I'm sure you got a few parts sitting around and could show us some pics later ;)

[alljap]

John,
Would you give more infor ( website,....) about the store: Lamps Now that you bought your parts from.
Thanks

[jgwinner]

http://www.hellolights.com/

(lampsnow.com still goes there but Hellolights.com is the newer link).

As this link is quite old, I'm now using 3 ballasts:

Hellolights original 250w ballast
their new ARO ballast
an Icecap MH ballast

All 3 seem to work fairly well. I'm using of course the double ended bulbs.

They also sell a premade canopy and the DE bulb holder with the metal bar in the middle, which is MUCH easier to use.

== John ==

[alljap]

Thanks John

[lendef]

Can anyone tell me if they have heard of using the flourex bulbs. Supposedly, These lights actually put out 500w but use 65w. They are flourescent type but not exactly. 6500K in color and from what i've seen folks are using color filter gels to up that to 10k and 12k. Any info would help. I have 2 flourescent hoods(well waiting for 2nd now and plan on doing the metal halide DIY that you have done but in the mean time these seem like a real good inexpensive option to supplement the power compact.

[rsteagall]

lendef,

Do you have any more information ont hese flourex bulbs?

[BeanAnimal]

lended I think you would have a lot better luck starting a new thread with an apropriate title, instead of tacking an unrelated question on to a 4 year old thread.