never built a sump... got a few questions

[Jpizzle]

So here's the simple design I came up with.. the picture is too small but you get the idea (doh!)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/jpdobrin/sumpdesign.bmp

Anyways here are the specs.

40 gal. acrylic display tank w/ 1 in. bulkhead.

30 gal. glass sump (36x12x18). Simple design with skimmer section on left, refugium middle, return pump on the right. I'm not sure if my baffle design is correct.. basically 3 on each side of the refugium.


1) how thick should the glass baffles be? I read somewhere 1/8 in. thick?

2) what about spacing between each baffle? 1 in. sound ok?

3) what I'm really confused about are the dimensions I should have for each baffle. I have two sets of 3 baffles. I'm wondering how tall the 1st and 3rd baffles need to be. Do the dimensions of the 2nd baffle (which don't touch the bottom of the tank) really matter?



any suggestions would be appreciated.

[katchupoy]

You have to mark the parts by number so we can talk about it individually...
be sure that the right-last part of the baffle where the pump sits, has enough water volume-space to it. This is where you put your level controller, your pump, etc.

[Jpizzle]

Originally posted by katchupoy
You have to mark the parts by number so we can talk about it individually...
be sure that the right-last part of the baffle where the pump sits, has enough water volume-space to it. This is where you put your level controller, your pump, etc.

How could I ensure that the return section has enough water volume/space to it? Just by making it bigger?


Sorry I know the picture is bad and this can get extremely confusing trying to do this just with text.. but..

I guess for the ease of labeling: there are a total of 6 baffles in the diagram I posted. Let's label them baffle 1-6 going from left to right.

To restate my 3rd question in my original post:

How high should baffles 1, 3, 4 and 6 be?

With the middle baffles- numbers 2 and 5 : I was wondering if their dimensions really matter as long as they're elevated off the bottom of the tank by a few inches?

[katchupoy]

Now remember that No 6 will be the one to dictate the water level inside the sump... unless No 4 is higher than no 6.

You have to decide. But in doing so, you have to consider also how much water level do you need. Meaning you have to consider the skimmer requirement if you have one of those skimmers that rely on walter proper water level.

Make No. 4 the highest like say 1 inch below the lip of your tank. This will create a largest volume of water possible which is needed and one major reason why we add sump.

Make No. 6 half the size of No. 4 so that the water going down to the water level of the last chamber is minimized. If you have to much then it might create bubbles because of splash from water current going down.

Also you have to decide how much water level you need. Is the pump going to be outside or inside. The difference is water level. If its outside then water level can be as low as possible.

[katchupoy]

If you decided that No. 4 will control the waer level then it is imperative that No. 1 is the same size.

I believe that No. 1 is not even required because you have No. 3 which is redundant to No. 1.

Make your spacing of baffles as big as you can do it... Maybe at least 2inches max. For easy cleaning and to make the water in low pressure mode. This way, the bubbles will just go up instead of going with the flow...

The concept is... the slower the pressure the better. I mean pressure and not flow. Pressure is different than flow.

Example if you have a 600gph in a 4 inch diameter pipe compared to 600gph in a 1/2 inch pipe. You know what i mean? We like the effect of the first.

[katchupoy]

The thicker the glass the better. Or you can do acrylic. But thats a little bit harder but doable.

[katchupoy]

what is your gph for the return pump?

[katchupoy]

Make No2 and No. 5 elevated at least 2 inches.

[katchupoy]

what skimmer?

[Jpizzle]

Originally posted by katchupoy
Now remember that No 6 will be the one to dictate the water level inside the sump... unless No 4 is higher than no 6.

You have to decide. But in doing so, you have to consider also how much water level do you need. Meaning you have to consider the skimmer requirement if you have one of those skimmers that rely on walter proper water level.

Make No. 4 the highest like say 1 inch below the lip of your tank. This will create a largest volume of water possible which is needed and one major reason why we add sump.

Make No. 6 half the size of No. 4 so that the water going down to the water level of the last chamber is minimized. If you have to much then it might create bubbles because of splash from water current going down.

Also you have to decide how much water level you need. Is the pump going to be outside or inside. The difference is water level. If its outside then water level can be as low as possible.

that is very crucial for me to know... i had no idea.

thanks so much - once we labeled the baffles this makes way more sense.

I'm planning on a mag 9 - to return to tank via a SCWD plus two returns. (submersed).

For skimming I'm going to use a ER ES5-3 (which is supposed to be run in 6-8 in. of water) since my tank is 18 in. tall I was planning to use egg crate w/ pvc legs to get it higher so I can have more water in the sump.

[katchupoy]

I made a simple diagram for you...

[Johnnyfishkiller]

katchupoy, the sump layout you drew is remarkably close to what I have. The only difference is that baffle no. 4 isn't necessary. I increased the height of no. 3 to above the height of no. 2 and moved it out to about 4 inches from no. 2. I also have it closer to the bottom of the sump, only about 1 inch from the bottom. All the bubbles from going over the falls at no.2 spin striaght to the surface and very rarely to the last section. I almost never suck a bubble into a pump.

I used cheap glass from HD and siliconed them in. I also use an auto top off the keep the level in the return pump section at the proper level.

[8BALL_99]

Some people keep the return pum in the middle and have a fuge on one side and the skimmer chamber on the other. That way the fuge can stay full while the sump and skimmer keep a 8" or so water level You can find some good sump designs and pics here http://melevsreef.com HTH

[Johnnyfishkiller]

I've been amazed at how well my fuge works with 100% of the water flowing across it. The top inch of water flows pretty fast, but under that it's just a slow turn of the water. Lots of litter critters in there that have no problem free swimming around the fuge.

[katchupoy]

Hi Johnny.

I created No.4 so that there will be a water level that will receive water from No.2

There is no point of making No. 3 higher because the water level is being controlled by No.4

Actually we can remove No.3 all in all because of No.4.
No.4 will absorb all the bubbles created by No.2. And in this case not too much compared to letting if fall full height of the dam which is 10".

8 Ball. I really like your idea. In this way, she can add more water volume to the sump without affecting the skimmer.

I will try to change the diagram to make that work. Lets see...

[katchupoy]

Here is the new diagram.

[Johnnyfishkiller]

Looks good except that the water level in the skimmer portion will be at the level of baffle no. 2.

[katchupoy]

You are right. I totally missed that one.... So the only solution is close down No.1 from the bottom, like No.4

Thanks, will update the image later.

[8BALL_99]

Nahh keep baffles 123 All the same height. You want plenty of water in the return pump area to allow for evaporation so the pump doesnt suck air. Probably have all the baffles around 8" also you will want either a ramp or some pvc drains in the return going down from the refuge to the return pump area so its not loud. Remember if the baffles are at 8" then the water line will be more like 9" Most skimmers recommend 7-9" water depth.

This should give you an idea. Not a blueprint by no means but a good idea of what I'm talking about.HTH

http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL514/944495/5364694/69543420.jpg

[Jpizzle]

thanks a lot for the help everyone.. especially the diagrams.

Seems like I can just copy the updated version of katchupoy's diagram.. with minor adjustments so that the skimmer section will have enough water.

[woodstockaz]

I am about to assemble the exact same sump as the one in the first picture of this post, only without the number 1 baffle. I am using a 20 gallon tank. I am going to put my skimmer in the center refugium part.

Does anyone see a problem with that?

I am doing this tonight, so an immediate response would be appreciated. Thanks.

[katchupoy]

I dont see any problem with that plan.

Actually, you can keep No.1 and raise it really up. Then put your skimmer on the second chamber.

Why?

This way you can increase volume of water and use it for refugium.

[katchupoy]

Here is the modified Sump 01 design.

Hope this works.

[Jpizzle]

interesting.

From what I've read, people don't like to have the skimmer section after the fuge section because apparently the impeller for the skimmer's pump chops up pods.. or something like that.

I'll be using your very first sump design katchupoy thanks for all your feedback and those diagrams help a lot.

[woodstockaz]

Won't the return pump just chop them up anyways if they get that far?

[Jpizzle]

that's what I would think but apparently that's not the case from what I read... but I think your right because that logic makes no sense.

*one pump for the skimmer that shreds pods and the other magical return pump that doesn't.*

[ken495]

Why not make the baffles a littler higher....like around 11" or so? Since the tank is 18" high, this still leaves room for overflow, and also gives more volume to the overall system. The skimmer will want to sit at about 9" or so, but this can be raised with some egg crate.

[katchupoy]

Raising the skimmer with eggcrate is very good option. But you have to take into consideration if you have the headroom to remove the skimmer, etc.

I have a 36 high stand. I have a 6 inches high subfloor for my sump area. That leaves me 30 inches of headroom. And my ES6-1 is 24 inches high. I think 5-3 too is the same height. So that leaves us 6 inches of room.

And in my experience, it is a PITA to remove my skimmer for cleaning.

My 0.2 cents.

[woodstockaz]

Jpizzle is hot : > Thanks for the reinforcement.

[Jpizzle]

lol- that's not me.

but yea.. she hot.