Need some fluid dynamic help here

[harris611]

I'm upgrading to a 1/3 hp chiller for a new 200gl and thinking of going in-line -- want to know how much head loss their is before chosing a pump for it.

I am going to run the sump return through the chiller (Aqua Logic -- says max flow of 2100gph) and then T it off to two 3/4" Sea Swirls.

I was thinking about a CSL T4 that runs about 1400 gph, but I'm wondering after running through that chiller and the SS and all those 90 degree elbows, how much turn over am I going to get????

I will have an AmpMaster 3000 on a closed loop with 1" SS's, so I really only need about 700-1000 gph total out of the returns. Will the CSL be enough, or should I get a second AM?

HELP! I need to order the pumps this week.

Thanks,

Harris611

[Xol]

FWIW,hope you can use this...http://www.fishwish.com/HeadLossCalcInputForm.htm

[smiller]

Could somebody explain to me how to determain your friction factor???:confused:

[nematode]

The calculator will give you exact #s, but I believe it is roughly 1 foot of head per sharp elbow, 1 foot per foot of elevation gain. You might consider using the sweeping elbows that the electrical PVC conduits offer. I swapped from sharp elbows to sweeping elbows in places where i could fit the curves. This substantially increased the flow of my system. I am pumping the water from the basement to my tank and head loss is very signifcant.

[3_high_low]

Originally posted by smiller
Could somebody explain to me how to determain your friction factor???:confused:

Hi smiller, I don't get the friction factor either. But if you substitute different values you'll see that the ff isn't that significant. The major factors are elbows and piping diameter.

Harris611, I'm no expert but you might be better off with a pressure rated pump like the T3 or Iwaki RLT models. The t4 is not pressure rated. Check out this chart from Champion Lighting (http://www.championlighting.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?page=Products/Pumps/specs.html&cart_id=6318643.19273) . I hope it helps you.

BTW I've ordered an Iwaki MD55RLT to return from the sump and power a small skimmer. the return portion will route through my 1/6 HP chiller which calls for 400-1000 gph. I hope I picked the right pump:) It should arrive this weekend, I'll let you know how it works out.

Good luck!

[Adam]

Harris,

I would contact the chiller manufacturer for two reasons.

First, they may be able to tell you what the approximate head loss will be.

Second, and probably more important, they may tell you not to subject the chiller to the kind of back pressure you will create by putting it in line with your other devices.

If you are willing to spend the $$'s on another pump, a smaller dolphin or even a large magdrive will probably run the chiller just fine.

HTH,

Adam

[harris611]

Thanks for the advice. I'll start calling some of the manufacturers and post my findings.

Nematode -- Where could I find those "Sweeping elbows." I'm very interested.

Thanks again guys!

[nematode]

Home depot.
Just go to the electrical department. They have PVC tubing that is grey for electrical work in 1/2" 3/4" and 1" and perhaps bigger sizes also though I have never checked. They have 22.5 ,45 and 90 sweeps. they are opposite to standard elbows in that these are male on both ends rather than female on both ends. I just connect them to straight tubing with standard straight couplings.
Here is another thread that discussed it breifly where someone had trouble gluing the stuff. But I had not problems at all.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=38805

I was pleasantly surprised to see your upgrading after the cu problem you had earlier. you must really have the bug bad. email me when you have it set up.

[harris611]

Nematode--

Thanks for the info. And ya, I realized that I need some clinical help when even after loosing about $2000 in the copper fiasco I still found myself dreaming about plumbing closed loops.

As far as the other tank disaster goes, got lucky and found a guy who wanted to start a FOWLR and did not care about the Cu. Got maybe 2/3 of my $$ back on tank, stand, rock, equipment and was able to rescue enough of the coral and fish that I have quite a bit of credit at Clayton Pet.

So, what do you do when you have some newfound cash lying around and credit at the LFS? NEW TANK!!!

Anyway, thanks and I will let you know how the tank turns out. Hoping to get water and rock in it by Christmas.

Hey, by the way. I met a guy who says he is opening the "biggest salt water / reef store in the Midwest" in Clayton. I sold him 20 bags of that Southdown and he paid me with a business check under the name Saltwater City (and yes, the check cleared). Talked with him for about 1/2 hour on the new store and it sounded amazing. His goal back in Aug was to have the store up and running in Dec. Have you heard anything about it?

[JohnL]

Originally posted by smiller
Could somebody explain to me how to determain your friction factor???:confused:

http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc.htm

There are 5 curves on the graph. Each curve is for a different diameter pipe.

An example would be for a flowrate of 1,000 GPH, using 2" pipe, the friction factor would be .020.

[JohnL]

Originally posted by 3_high_low
I don't get the friction factor either. But if you substitute different values you'll see that the ff isn't that significant. The major factors are elbows and piping diameter.

It can become very significant when using pipe of 1" or less.

[nematode]

I heard that also/ heard november for a start date. I also heard it was going to be in clayton, but I haven't heard /seen anything further. I imagine if this thing really goes through we will hear about it soon enough. With places like tropicorium and inland aquatics, "biggest salt water / reef store in the Midwest" is a bold statement to make.

[3_high_low]

Originally posted by JohnL


It can become very significant when using pipe of 1" or less.

I think it may have been irresponsible of me to make such a declaration :rolleyes: about the friction factor. I'm not really sure I'm using the calculator correctly. But if I am, I think I can say the friction factor value used in the equation to calculate head loss is far less significant than pipe diameter, and to a lessor extent, number of elbows. If you double the friction factor,the head loss increases a bit. If you half the pipe diameter, the head loss grows exponentially.

[smiller]

Thanks John.

BTW did you get my email last week about my refugium design??


Steve