HADTOVENT Give me a good reason to support OUR LFS THE AQUARIUM CENTER :(? Long

[daghostryder]

I live in landover md. and decided to support our LFS (AQUARIUM CENTER) after much trepidation and feeling guility for not supporting them but running to them ONLY for emergency. I decided to buy a fish from them even though I went for another anemone. (there a 90 mile rountrip for me, but suppose to be one of the better LFS) Besides I gave them a load of business with set-up when I was young and didn't know any better. It's obviously been awhile when I looked at the prices I was blown. I can buy these same fish for HALF the price, but wait you get to pick the specimen you want. (do you really??)So that should mean you get the best one. Well Fiance' loved the pretty Bi-Color blenny so what the heck I'll take that one. (this is 8:50pm Friday) First mistake was not making them feed the fish. Not that it would have mattered there were atleast 6 in the tank with other fish the first one she scooped out was breathing strenuosly (that should have been my cue to walk away) she said it was cause they were running. LOL strenous breathing ang running from "THE NET" are two diffrent types of breathing. She relunctly fished out another. Was it the one I had first eyed I'll never be certain. Long story short get the guy home acclimate and set free, lights out see ya in the AM. Next morning no blenny...maybe shy... feed some nice mysis shrimp and green algea formula II. There he is BUT wait he's not eating. Oh brother poof he's gone and never seen from till Sunday morning 8 am He's breathing is labored sorta like the first dang blenny i had at Aquarium Center. Quickly set up for emergency extraction to nurse him back to health. Too late when I got the net and fished him out with little fight he was dead. Call the fish store. "Sorry sir it's not our policy".......What R&D in landover mall (a dump IN MY OPINION) offers a 72 hr return on salt water. (NOW I REMEBER WHY I DON"T BUY FROM LFS.) I plead with the manager about my plight, 90 mile drive roundtrip, tank params are PERFECT, can we please do something. "NOPE it's POLICY sorry and sorry for wasting your time. Bye." THEN IT HITS ME AGAIN WHY MANY OF US DO NOT SUPPORT OUR LFS. I really don't care about the money but it's the PRINCIPAL. I WILL NEVER SUPPORT ANOTHER LFS UNLESS THEY ARE WILLING TO SUPPORT ME. IF YOU CANT GUAREENTEE YOUR FISH THEN WHY SHOULD I SUPPORT YOU. NOT TRYING TO SLAM AQUARIUM CENTER BUT THEY ARE ONE OF THE LARGER AND MORE RESPECTABLE LFS WHY CANT THEY SUPPORT US WHO ARE WILLING TO SUPPORT THEM. I EASILY DROPPED 2K PLUS WHEN I WAS SETTING UP THEY SOLD ME EVERYTHING BUT THE KITCHEN SINK THAT WAS ABOUT 3YEARS AGO NOW I NEED A LITTLE HELP AND IT'S SORRY. THE NERVE. AHHHHH I feel much better now. Am i wrong to feel this why and guide other away from LFS. My neighbor is in the process of getting a salt water up and i had mentioned Aquarium Center for reasonble prices and good fish. Ofcourse after this happened I changed my tune and told them what I would do is order from the net...sure you have to wait 3~4 days but it's even cheaper AND you get AN ARRIVE ALIVE GUAREENTE. Do these fish store care about word of mouth business anymore. what happen to CUSTOMER SERVICE. Poor fishy....I HATE TO SEE FISH DIE, IT SAYS ALOT ABOUT THE STORE AND THE PEOPLE THEY GET THEIR FISH FROM. I THINK AQUARIUM CENTER HAS COSTED ON A GOOD REP FOR SO LONG THAT ARE STARTING TO CUT CORNERS NOW. How can i say this on one fish dying? easy i'm not the first and looking at the selection of fish it's obvious they buy bulk of certain fish nothing special. I've been to other shops where the store is not the most pristine but the selection is one where the owner appeared to get certain fish I think some of you follow me.

~~Aquarium Center I'm surprised at you even when I called and explained the situation you could have supported me the way I supported you. That was a manager call skip the POLICY you guys had broken policy for me time and time again when I was in first buying stuff 3 years ago. Guess that's what happens when the "big" money stops. It is my mission in life to let people know how i was treated over a 20 dollar fish that died for no apparent reason in less than 2 days since YOU WILL NOT GUARENTEE YOUR FISH. At a minimum you should have a 48hr return on them. Are you not confident in your supply/supplier?


tank is almost a year young.
temp 80 ph 8.2 amm 0 nitr(i)(a)tes 0 po4 0 ca 480 alk 10.2/3.66
spec grav1.024 inocculated withe two detrites kits(inland & ispf) LR, 4inchplus sand bed. plenty of algea red & green culerpas/halimedia. Rather nice tank. NEVER had a fish die less than 3months. I acclimate very slowly and properly ever 15 min add remove water this method has never failed me. Tank mates: Mandarin (no flames he's fat and healthy and pooping like its going outta style) a pair of clowns with an anemone; shrimps; crabs; snails JUST added a lawnmower and purle tang. Will order another Bi-Color :( Tank size is 75g with a 20 gallon sump/refegium 4 x96 plust 2 stock lights

[fishymissy]

I understand your frustration with the LFS. Most of the stores I frequent have a return policy of 48 hours with a large sample of your tank water. They won't give you money or credit for the fish without that sample either, which is good and for their own protection. Why the LFS that you went to refuses to back up their stock in ANY way is beyond me.
But, what I don't understand is why you bought the fish in the first place if you had doubts about it. That is exactly why it's great to be able to see and watch the fish before you buy it.
Then again, I don't understand why you would put a newly purchased fish in the main tank. A quarantine tank would have let you observe the fish on the next day and return it or treat it if you noticed the fish having problems.
As far as buying over the net and having the "arrive alive guarantee"- I don't see how that would have helped you? The fish did, after all, arrive at your house alive......

[geofloors]

I've never experienced the problem with fish but trying to get help with any livestock is impossible. If you want LR, snails, corals, etc. you'll wait a half hour, even when there's not much business. Only two or three employees can handle the invert system. I understand that policy but when you pay a premium for the livestock shouldn't there be more people who are trained for that? Over the years of doing business there, the AC has definetly gone downhill. Even the huge 500g+ display tank is looking worse everytime I go there. The store is the best place for drystock in Baltimore but I no longer buy livestock from them.

George

[reefer74]

Sorry to hear about your unfortunate encounter with your lfs but again I believe it to be an isolated incident with your lfs. While many people do encounter the problems with lfs's I believe it to be a minimal few who believe that they cannot support theyre local stores due to theyre lack of interest in the hoby and more of an interest in the final mighty dollar. I guess I'm lucky to have AquaTek as my local lfs among others. Roger not only supports all of his clientel by offering his knowledge of species and accessories but also supports our local Reef Keeping Society. Hell he even has our frag tank at his store. He is one of many lfs's here in austin that support the hobby. So again I'm sorry to hear about your ordeal with the lfs but I guess some of us are just luckier that others. Good luck with your online ordering as it seems that you will have much better luck that way.


Johnny G.

[mindrone]

daghostryder: sorry to hear about your experience, I feel your frustration. I stopped frequenting my LFS over a fish as well. This was a place that I had given probably 3000+ dollars to personally over the previous 9 months (as well as referred a few friends to), and when I asked them to hold a fish for me for 2 days (I would pay for it up front) while I got my q.tank up and running, they refused. How's that for service? I walked away with the solid belief that if they didn't believe in the quality of their livestock anymore than that.. neither did I. The local petco will even hold a fish for you for a few days for crying out loud! As a matter of fact, my local petco will even hold without a deposit or any type of payment, and mostly, the fish don't look much different than they do at Aquarium Center.. I realize my local Petco is probably the exception rather than the rule.

I don't buy from Aquarium Center anymore either. Not due to any particularly bad experience, it just seems that the people there don't care a whole lot about the animals or the customer.

One thing that Aquarium Center is great for is meeting Dr.Mac when he goes to buy salt. I arranged to meet him down there over the weekend and get a couple clams and an anemone. Now there is a vendor that will bend over backwards to try to help a fellow hobbyist out.

Personally.. on drygoods, if you can.. check out That Fish Place in Lancaster, PA.. it may be a little more of a drive for you maryland types, but the prices are much better IME, and you're not paying for the staff to know anything at either place. Just something to think about.

[mastaJ]

I feel for your loss. I always WATCH the fish eat before I buy him, and I make sure he has been there awile. When you buy from a MO fish place it may "Arive Alive" but who is gonna say it will eat? So, I don't think a MO place would have given you a refund either...

[Kengar]

Mindrone, you're in York yet going to Petco? Shame on you; you've got fishy mecca (TFP) right in your back yard. Been there twice (live in D.C. area (Bethesda)) and was like a kid in a candy store.

Daghostryder, I agree that your taking that fish was probably ill advised in view of the condition of the others in the tank (breathing strenuously), and I can say that I understand LFS'es generally being reluctant to gurarantee their saltwater livestock. (It's a very large loss-based side of the business, since so much of the livestock is wild caught and takes a beating in transit and could be (and often is) suspect (cyanide).)

That having been said, I agree with you that AC seems to have problems of late. My recent experience: Went in late evening -- right there, big mistake, since decisions tend to be rushed -- to pick up a couple of Red Sea Raccoons I had been told (by phone when starting to drive up) were there and available. Arrived only to find a single raccoon. The raccoon appeared to be alert and active, and had been in the tank for about a month (based on the sticker date of arrival). I also had had my eye on the tank of semilarvatuses for several weeks, and saw that there was one left. Because the group of semi's covered in lympho which Kyle had steered me away from a month beforer were long gone, and because Kyle represented to me that the one left was doing fine and eating, and given the amount of time the fish had been in the store, I decided to take the semi and the raccoon ($225 worth of fish).

Brought the fish home and put them in quarantine tank with well seeded filters (yes, multiple). Next morning, the semi was dead, with bloody red streaks all over it. I pulled the fish out and froze it. (Kyle's assessment when I took it in later in the week: bacterial hemmorhaging, which is the same problem (if I recall correctly) some of the others in their earlier shipment of semis had been suffering from.) Not having time to mix up another ten gallons of water to set up second q-tank (had to get to work), I decided to take a chance and go ahead and put the raccoon into the main system. When I got home that night, the raccoon, too, was showing bloody red streaks. Having time, I mixed up ten gallons of new saltwater and set up a second q-tank (with yet another well seeded filter) (using the ten gallons of new water to replace ten taken from system for the q-tank).

I nursed the raccoon for three weeks, and when the bloody wounds were healed, put it back into the main system. It seemed to be fine for about three weeks, then started acting lethargic and just gazing, then died within two days of showing those symptoms, once again showing bloody red streaks. The day after, one of my two Pakistani b'flies (also purchased at AC) died, after showing the same lethargy/gazing behavior. (I put a 30 watt U.V. sterilizer on the tank at that point and ran it for about six weeks, which seems to have rendered the system stable. Also added three cleaner shrimp. System now appears to be well stable for two months, with remaining fish clean, active, and getting fat!.)

As noted above, I took the bloody streaked semi in and showed it to Kyle. I acknowled their policy regarding saltwater fish, but asked him if they would make some sort of accommodation in light of the amount I had spent on that fish -- the raccoon was still alive at that point -- and the fact that at the time I bought it I had expressed my intention to buy two more (to take advantage of the lower, three-or-more price). Kyle agreed that he would sell me a replacement at their cost, which I figured was fair (and certainly better than nothing.) At that time, I also picked up a couple dusky jawfish, a couple pearly jawfish, and five royal grammas (another hundred plus bucks on fish). A week later, when calling to see whether they had received their next shipment of semi's (so I could take them up on their offer of accommodation), I noted that one of the royal grammas and a couple of the jawfish had died after a couple days in quarantine, at which point Kyle told me -- almost accusatorily, it seemed -- that it was MY system that was to blame, since their b'flies and grammas/jawfish weren't even on the same system at the store. (Never mind the fact that the grammas/jawfish were in second ten gallon q-tank which the semi/raccoon had never been in -- it was in the closet, dry at the time -- with filter that had been percolating in my reef tank, not the FO where the raccoon had gone.)

As a result, I will not buy fish from AC again -- including foregoing their accommodation re the semi. For higher end fish of the sort I've become fond of, I will order them from places such as The Marine Center, in Texas, where, it is my understanding, they quarantine and ensure the health of their specimens before they ship. (In fact, I have had an order with them for some more Paki's, and the night it was going to ship, Randy there called me up to let me know they were going to hold up the order, since one of the fish had a touch of lympho. Not fatal or much of it on the fish, but not a perfect fish, either, and they didn't want to send it if it wasn't. :thumbsup:

And finally, the thing that sticks in my craw the most? In order to make more room for b'flies/angels in my 200 and to keep the substrate in place, I simply gave my beloved porcupine puffer Fatboy (five inches and very healthy), along with my 18 inch long, two inch thick snowflake to Kyle and one of the other saltwater guys there (Larry?). Even though it might be seen as them doing me a favor, he never even said "Thanks" :furious:

[mindrone]

kengar: with all due respect... you couldn't possibly be suggesting that TFP is an acceptable (let alone great) place to buy fish.

I don't know what things were like when you were there, but the fish I have seen from that place are horrid. As I previously said, I do buy an awful lot of dry goods there though. Corals are hit or miss. I tend to try to get there right after the shipment, as ANYTHING left in those tanks for more than a week ends up in the dead or dying category. I'm not sure about it being a fishy mecca at all. I look at it more as a warehouse store for fish supplies. The help is not knowledgable at all, specimens are frequently misidentified, fish are sick, etc. Not jumping all over you here, but TFP should not be confused with a great place to buy fish is my point.

--Brad

[Clyde]

I know what you're talkin about.


when I vist my family back east - I tend to check out the store - ONLY for dry goods. nothing else.

wont check livestock - its too gross - too dark - too ugly IMHO and stickers EVERYWHERE 'want your tank look good as this, use triton tubs'

that turns me off and bascailly wont go past the drygoods area - closest to the livestock area I get to is check out the glass doors right next to the endtrance, and I M O UT OF THERE. and I hit The Reef Tank.... love the guys there

[Kengar]

Midrone,

wasn't even thinking in terms of buying livestock there. was just kidding around with you about going to Petco. as a place for dry goods, tfp's great. re livestock, much agreed.

[absolutc]

To make a long sorty short,

I spent 5K in a setup from my LFS. I buy all my goods there as well. I have bought 2 blue tangs, 3 sweet lips, 3 gree chromis, 1 flame angel, and a few others. All died within 2 days. Everytime i try to get an "exchange" it never happens. No credit, nothing. No stay alive policy at all. I try NOT to buy fish, but only corals and dry goods. Never had a problem with corals. But fish, never live from my LFS. However .. all those fish are from the same store. I have shopped other stores and purchased fish. All are still with me to this day. That was 6 months ago :) I buy online or a place that is dirty and grungy. Seems to be the only place that buy "quality fish" not quantity.

[JEMichael IV]

I feel your pain. I went to my LFS here a couple of months ago and I got a Blood Fire Shrimp. He was gorgeous and he was selling for 39.99. I asked the owner (who knows I am in there 3-4 times a week and spend to much money there) if he can do anything for me on him because I thought he was a little overpriced. He told me that he would give him to me for 34.99. I said ok, ill take him. I really wanted one now.

I get home the little bugger is in the bag and looking ok. I Float him for 10 minutes and slowly pour some water into a plastic collection cup that hangs over my tank (the kind you see at your LFS) and net him and put him into there. I slowly start adding my tank water every 5-10 minutes. After 15 minutes into this process he's on his side and dying. I did not get it.

It couldnt be the collection cup because I just aclimated my new diamond goby right before the blood shrimp and he did fine.

I call the LFS (THAT DAY about 1 1/2 later) and tell him that he did not even make it through the aclimation process and he said he was doing fine in our tanks (the famous line). I said well, he did not even make it to my tank. I have his body, when can I bring him in to get another since I am within the 24 hour garantee. He said that he is not going to garantee him because he gave me 5 dollars off on him. I said you should have told me that before I bought him. I would have paid the extra 5 dollars to get that little bit of security. He said, Im sorry I dont know what to tell you John, you can go somewhere else if you need to but I cannot do anything for you.

This was frustrating as I am a regular customer there and he knows me by my own name. I have been going there for 2 years. And over 5 dollars he lost my buisness. I was strickly going there for live brine and frozen food.

The place is under new owner ship now from what I heard, so I am going to go check it out. HOPEFULLY these guys are cool.

[JFish]

I love my LFS's...I have two great store's right in my area <30 min away. The Reef Tank as mentioned above is great. The store itself is tiny but the livestock is in excellant shape and the people working there are the most knowledgable I have ever seen. They'll show you every component of their display tanks and they even have 'special people' come in every once in a while who specialize in certain aspects of the hobby...like the last time i was there there was a person that knew everything about lighting and could tell you anything about all types. He got me into the HQI lighting which I am looking up now.

I also have another store about 15-20 min away called "The Marine Scene" the entrance to the store is a narrow little hall that opens up to their huge display tank. They have the best quality fish I have ever seen. None dead or sick. They never overcrowd the tanks and they even seperate clowns that they have noticed to pair off. (don't know that it is that special that they do this buy hey...) they have about 6 - 75 gallon tanks of corals, anemones, fan worms, you name it. I just can't stop with all the great comments.

Sorry to hear you have crappy LFS's...I happen to like mine :P :D,

[Scholesy]

I sympathise with you guys... I guess it's like any service like car workshops etc... find one that you get on well with, and stick to them like GLUE. I am testing what I think is a good one now; 500 miles away from me - it's the nearest decent one - and will be directing my orders thru them if they work out.

Pretty tricky with livestock as a dead fish is no good to anyone. Even if the shop bore 1/3 to 1/2 of the cost of the fish - upon evidence of customer's good water quality - that would go a long way to ease the pain and stress of losing a new fish so soon.

My .02

[Scholesy]

p.s. the store I'm checking out have Flame Angels for approx $US70.... so I'm being very cautious....

[daghostryder]

To all:
Well it's 11 pm my yanks lost, my Giants lost and my fish is dead :( this was not agood day. HOWEVER i would like to thank everyone who took the time to read my LONG post and respond. To answer the main question first posed WHY DIDN"T I USE THE Q Tank well ...........about a month after I was up and running I had some extra sand, extra rock ohhhh and extra rio 800 hey I could turn this Q. Tank into a species tank to house a cute little puffer. THAT"S WHERE MY DANG Q. Tank is. Ohhh wait didn't i get another because YOU HAVE TO HAVE A Q. TANK...oh my I forgot to mention those sea horses that the fiance just had to have. Did I ever get another Q. Tank OHHHHHH NOOOOOO no more tanks for this guy and I know I'm not the first person this has happened to. No I take my chances like many of us do EVEN though WE ALL KNOW BETTER. In an emergency I use the brine shrimp "lab" and can throw a fish in there with an airstone to observe or treat, fortunetly (knock on wood) I have never had to do that. Yes I should have followed my first instict and just walked away completely, but you know we all think we can save the word. "my tank is perfect" "ohh with a little TLC and the right environment hell be ok" and worst of all "but honey he's so cute"

JFISH~ been to the reefstore saw alot of aptasia in the tank kinda scared me. Don't need any of that, but yes the live stock looks very good. Where is this other store you mentioned ( the marine scene?????

True the fish may not eat, but at least there is a cushion of 5 days for you to notice that your fish is having problems that need to be addresed. 5 days is a long time. IMO only a really inexpereiced person would not notice that a fish is no good whe it does not eat any food after 5days. The gaurentee says more than that though it say to US, the consumer, hey I trust my product. And if it dies send me your water so I can blame you :eek1:

~BOWSIE??? maybe Aquarium Center REP? :rolleyes: An arrive alive policy that exist is usually 5days hence i would have been able to pack that sucker up and send him back. I applaud you on alway using your Q. tank as you read above you see where mine went. Does that justify MY fish dying I think not . That is just sheer carelessness on my part and a bigg no no if I do not want to contaminate my show tank. It has no bearing on the life/death of my fish. So I have to disagree with you strenuously. Just because i look at a fish and the second guy I looked at was breathing in my "laymans" eyes aok. I do not pretend to be an expert on fish I notice the obvious thats it. I read and try to find things i read or avoid those things that is all i can do.


Well it was reassuring to hear also that my assesment of Aquarium Center getting a swollen head was not just due to my recent loss and anger at there disregard for selling bumb fish. Sure they take a risk in this market but they make up for well in the prices they charge so that mubo jumbo about risk and dying dosent float well with me. LFS need to offer some sort of assurence to the consumer that you can trust us....somewhat:rolleyes:

Again thank u all for the kind words. U GUYS ARE THE BEST;)

[JFish]

The marine scene is in Herndon VA...don't know exact directions off the top of my head...they are in the yellow pages and you can get their number and ask for directions.. it is a really nice store.. much better than the reef tank imo... they are both nice though.

HTH

[JohnL]

[moved]

[Kengar]

take the dulles toll road west from the beltway to the fairfax county pkwy (1700), exit 11. go north on the parkway for about a 1/4 mile, and it curves around to the left in a 180 degree turn. Dumps you out right onto the surface street. Take a right onto that surface street, and the Sunset shopping strip will be right there over to the left. Turn in and there about half way down the strip, on your right. (And while you're there, head on to the end of the strip and say hi to my friends at Splash Dive Center and get yourself certified, if not already.)

[THEPHISHGUY]

Just wanted to agree with you that AQUARIUM CENTER SUCKS SO BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have spent well over 5 grand in there and everytime i go in they are ruder than the last time. They treat you like s**t and trying to get help in there is like pulling teeth. I finally befriended one person who worked ther but he quit. There is a unbelievable lfs right off exit 32 a on 695 called EXOTIC AQUATICS. There sps's are UNREAL. Aquarium Center is 2 minutes from my office so I do ther to get dry goods and the occasional invert. Basically only get ldrygoods there, the rest SUCKS.. Sorry about all the colorful language its just gets me so mad when other people tell me how bad ther experince with them was ......reminds me of all of mine...... Dave

[JRM]

And it really isn't their fault. It has everything to do with economics.

The small stores are pretty much garage operations run by someone who loves the hobby, often as a side business. Good customer service, usually very high quality livestock but with very limited selection ("yeah, I can order one of those for you, pick it up in two weeks"). Hard to find sometimes, but well worth the effort to locate.

The large stores pretty much shine fish. What fish they do sell are mostly freshwater eclipse systems to parents who feel it their obligation to demonstrate the nature of death firsthand for their children. They're too busy selling dog chews at 5000% markup to worry about the small margin on SW. They hire minimum wage high school kids, give them a nice green collar polo shirt, and set them loose. Training is inconsequential because 99.9% of the people they sell to are going to crash the tank, flush the fish while Timmy cries, and quit. Don't expect anyone to know anything. You don't ask electronics questions in a Fry's, do you?

Now it's the mid sized LFS that really have earned my ire. They are much more insidious. They dump on the garage guys as amateurs, and the chain guys as impersonal. They pretend to be your friend, but always remember you are nothing more than a dollarsign to them. At the first sign you might possibly cost them money, they bail on you.

They hire college students for cheap who have a bit of experience. Maybe even own their own small tank. But here's a question: Ever hear the phrase "I don't know" uttered by anyone working in a medium sized LFS? I didn't think so. The one in my town will make up the most horrendous lies rather than admit there is some facet of the hobby that eludes them. And don't dare point out a mistake (common courtesy implies you not do this anyway if other customers are present. Although sometimes the welfare of an animal mandates intervention).

Mid sized LFS make the majority of their money off screwing you on the initial purchase of your tank. They sell you horribly overpriced, sorry gear (how many of you were sold bio-wheels when you first started? Wet/Dry?), because you trust them. Then, after you've been in the hobby for a while (and realize that three big tangs can't live in a 20 gallon tall, even though the LFS guy recommends them as great first fish. "Oh yeah, you have to buy more than one, they're a schooling fish"), you get ****ed because you realize how badly you got screwed. But in the interest helping the local economy you continue to buy livestock there, even when they often die. And then when you try and take something back, they point to the "no guarantee" sign and shake their head). I've had orders of magnitude better service from MO. And while shipping is steep, they could triple it and still beat the LFS prices. Who the heck ever heard of paying $20 for a Royal Gramma? I'll never buy another fish from my LFS again. I'll drive to LA first.

And don't believe that pile about tanks and stands being a loss leader. I went to PetCo and bought a new 72 gallon bowfront for less than *half* what the midsize LFS wanted for it. True, the PetCo children weren't really sure about my not buying the stand and canopy (building my own), but it didn't take long to convince them that each piece was in fact a separate item ("No, just try scanning the tag on the glass. It'll ring up, trust me"). Someday I might even finish the stand (but since I don't have the coin for the MHs yet anyway, it isn't a huge priority).

In little hick towns like mine we're doubly screwed, because they're the only game around. Nothing like having an emergency, and going in there to find they've jacked the price of meds and dips beyond the stratosphere.

I find the medium sized LFS good for one thing. Water. I buy RO water from them. And I will continue to do so, because I have my own well, and it has phosphate issues (kinda scary that I constantly drink what I won't put in my tank). I go in there and ask questions purely for my own amusement. Don't get me wrong, I'm on expert, but I do know just enough to be dangerous. For kicks, grab one of the little weasels, point to two *completely* incompatible (but expensive) fish, and ask, "what do I need to do to keep those two together?" Or my other favorite is to play, "Is this fish reef safe?" especially with the triggers. They might actually figure the game out if they managed to keep the same guys for more than the two weeks it takes me to use up my top-off water.

So my hat is off to you if you've got a medium sized LFS that you like. You're either very lucky or very gullible. Either way, you're very much in the minority.

[Scholesy]

A Royal Gramma for $20?? Sheesh; I'd pay that in a flash! LOL - if we can get them here (maybe a few times a year); the starting price is around $50....

good pt about LFS'.

Where I lived 10 years ago there was a small shop run by a guy for 20-odd yrs - prob still going. He only did Fwater fish tho. Clean tanks; nice shop; reasonable range; could get stuff in in under a week if he didn't have it;nice personality; wife helped him; always had time for advice - or if he was busy we would phone you later. Not cheap; but not expensive. Would not sell you stuff you didn't need - always checked what equip and fish you had first. I bought all my stuff there; and he remembered it. Sometimes if I bought 10 Neons etc he would charge for 7; and throw in a plant if I wanted one.

Fantastic; and that's the way I think it should be.

[seasquirt]

I've been to the Aquarium Center twice and both times I got excellent service as far as the employee talking to me, asking questions, not seeming rushed, etc. The second time I went, I bought some astrea snails and blue-leg hermits. The guy who bagged them made sure the hermits were moving and made sure the snails were eating (he only pulled snails off the glass so I could look and see their mouths moving). Good service in that department, as far as I experienced. Haven't bought a fish there yet, but will keep daghostryder's experience in mind if I'm ever in there and something [that I can afford] catches my eye.

However, the first time I was there, I talked to a different guy about lighting options and he tried to sell me PC's right off the bat, when I clearly stated that I was looking for the least expensive option. I ended up getting my VHO's from my LFS in Southern Maryland, and I'm happy with them.