SeaClone Skimmers - Experience?

[RockTheCasbah!]

I was wondering if anyone out there has tried the SeaClone line of skimmers. If so, are they any good??

[JAAYS32]

Sorry dude. I bought one and gotta sat that it was a waste of money IMO. It was a major pain trying to adjust that beast. Constantly released bubbles into the water. Just a waste although the pump that came with it powers another skimmer I had so I guess it wasn't a total loss.

[Pacific Intent]

I had one for about a year, and the production was minimal at best. Most people will tell you that they are a waste of money. I was about to drop another couple hundred bucks on a berlin.
However, I did some modification to my seaclone, and now its production is incredible. My collection cup fills up every day. I modified it in such a way that air flows gets pumped in through a wooden airstone as well as the pump. I can adjust the air intake at either point to skim as fast or a slow as I want. Also, while some skimmers have a decreased water flow as production increases, my water flow is always at its max because of the multiple air sources.

However, as they are sold, they are not very productive. If i would have done some research before I got mine, I probably would have gone with a more reputable model.

[Stoli]

That Sea Clone modification sounds great. Can you post some details. How did you do the modification? What size air pump/stone? I have a Sea Clone currently molding in a closet and I wouldn't mind adding some additional skimming if it was worth the effort.
I've also heard that some people cut the inner reaction chamber down to improve contact time. Might not be a bad idea.

[Snailman]

Stoli



[welcome]

[dattack]

http://www.reefcentral.com/diy/seaclone_modifications.htm

[EdKruzel]

Pacific Intent,
If your skimmer cup fills every day that is a terrible sign.
It means that your skimmer is not adequate enough to handle the bioload you present.

Think of this way.
A large paper product manufacturer has a 24-7 operation and puts a very small dumpster behind his building. His employees cut enough paper waste to fill the dumpster before lunch. Even though the dumpster is dumped daily the entire afternoon the employees are up to their eyeballs in paper waste.
Sorry for the simple analogy, please don't be offended.
The point I'm making is that you need a bigger and better skimmer.
A skimmer that is half full once a week is about adequate.

[Pennoyer]

EdKruzel,

How can you make such a broad sweeping generalization that a skimmer that produces half a cup a week is about right. Wouldn't it matter on the size of the collection cup and the moisture content of the foam. Also, unless Pacific's seaclone is located in the tank (which I am pretty sure is impossible as all seaclone's are of the hang on variety), "or the dumpster is locate inside the work area", the fish or the paper workers afternoon's waste would be overflowed onto the floor and would not remain in the system.

I am not trying to offend you only trying to present a viable explanation for the reason why Pacific has to dump his collection cup once a day. Considering the amount of air that is being forced through such a small reaction chamber it is quite possible that Pacific is getting very wet foam thus the increased production.

Pacific, before you replace your newly enhanced Seaclone, are you having any problems with your tank? For example algae blooms, signs of distress in your fish, etc. If not, I would say that your skimming is probably adequate how it is, especially given the small size of the seaclone's collection cup. You should be trying produce the dryest foam possible. What you are looking for is a frothy mixture with very little water in the cup like what you see washing up on a beach during and immediately after a large surf event.

If however, any problems materialize, you know where the first area to look for the cause. Sounds like you are on the right track though keep up with the DIY projects :)

[EdKruzel]

Let me get this straight, if the skimmer isn't located in the tank or since the cup is full and not overflowing you believe that theres no build up of excessive nutrients in the tank?
If you want detail so be it.
The size of the cup won't matter, or the substance if you have half of a clue to what your doing. Since he can read and post we'll give him that.
EVERY skimmer sold by a manufacturer is rated for tank size.
The basics also mention waste as they describe adjustments.
They all call for a dry as possible thick sludge in many colorful phrases depending on the company.
What most companies don't explain is bioload as it pertains to waste and the amount generated in a specific time frame.
My "generalization" was assuming his skimmer is on a recommended sized tank and adjusted properly.
You make the statement that it's probably too thin, or just water filling the cup, which you may be correct, but then you tell him that's fine. How is that fine? Let's get back to a proper function and the sludge is dry and thick...
If you put a $10 skimmer rated for up to 20gal on a 300gal tank, you'll have more problems than emptying a skimmer cup on a daily basis. People cut corners, but in this hobby they read. This forum is proof that people are attempting to educate and possibly share some knowledge themselves.
His comment of how well a skimmer works because it draws a cup full a day is probably the most common mistake in the hobby. As I explained, a manufacturer said to watch for a dry thick green/brown sludge, "the damn thing must be in high gear, look at how often it's full". Easy and common mistake.
Maybe I generalized and assumed too much? I usually do with the people on here for there is quite a bit of experience out there.
As far as SeaClones, I've replaced too many of them for clients who went from living tanks to thriving tanks and got to add more livestock after replacing a SeaClone. If you have to modify and enhance a piece of equipment you paid hard earned cash for then it's garbage. There are many quality companies building solid no nonsense products out there to fool with rest.
For real details you need to ask allot more questions from PI.
Size of tank, types of filtration, bioload, feeding habits, maintenance schedule, water source, and even lighting plays a role in nutrient breakdown.

[Pacific Intent]

EdKruzel,

Perhaps my point was missed. I'm not advising anyone to go out a purchase something that they will have to rebuild before it works properly. My point was this:

For those of us who have availed ourselves of the perhaps substandard seaclone skimmer, there is a way to make it produce. Simple as that. Maybe I need a better skimmer or not. That's not the point. People seem to be upset with the seaclone because of its lack of production. There's no point is tossing the thing in the trash if it can be made effective. Once again, I'm not advising anyone to purchase the item, I'm only trying to help those who already have.

My tank has never been healthier since the modification. I'm chopping zenia down by the handful, visibly new coraline every day, fish are healthy, bubble coral gets bigger each day, pods of all kinds everywhere, no unwanted algae blooms, etc., etc,. I try to learn something new each day in this hobby. That's why I ask questions and try to give input as to my experiences. That's all I did, was share my seaclone experience. I never claimed to know something that I don't.

That's not to say that I couldn't use a larger skimmer. In fact, I plan to do so in the future, as my load increases.

Insofar as your replies go, I was able to gain some knowledge in the midst of of your rambling boilerplate language, which exuded an unmistakable heir of superiority. I question neither your expertise nor you knowledge. However, when I am warned "not to be offended," I, as most people, will immediately become predisposed to be offended. I was offended by your replies. I find your offensive manner to be ill-suited for this forum of friendly discussion. I see no reason why you simply could not have presented your knowledge of the subject in a civil, informative manner.

Therefore, I thank you for your input and knowledge, and I will disregard your rambling dictum, which exudes a feeling of superiority.

As far as my skimming goes, Pennoyer must have been to my house before. He seems to know exactly what's happening in my tank and sump. Moreover, he presented his case in terms of "perhaps and maybe." He wisely chose not to attack on the basis of groundless assumptions. Regardless as to whether he or you are right, I would much rather side with reason, than with needless offensiveness. Pennoyer "speaks the king's language." In other words, he can relate to people, which makes him an effective communicator. You immediately place people on the defensive, thereby rendering actual communication nil.

Thank You Mr. Pennoyer. I appreciate the civil manner in which you communicate, and your point has been very well received

[EdKruzel]

My rudeness was directed to pennyover.
For that I was wrong, I should have ignored his attack.
My analogy is what I asked you not to take offense of;
It was quite simple almost elementary in level. I didn't want you to feel as if I was talking down to you.

One more point I didn't get across is that if you purchase a piece of equipment that's not appropriate then return it to the store. After an item sits it drives up overhead and dealers will be forced to carry quality that they can move quickly for a profit.

Since you've added some of your inhabitants I'd like to mention a very positive thing you are doing. You mentioned you xenia that you refer to as "chopping down"... Excellent! Many reefer grow xenia and/or macroalgae to prune often as a nutrient export. Quite a few are so successful with this process that they no longer require or use skimmers.
Good Luck with your tank.

[Pacific Intent]

Thanks!

[seasquirt]

I have a SuckClone (har!) skimmer, and I'm curious about the addition of an airstone fed by an airpump. Where does the tube go into the skimmer? How far down and where do you place the airstone? (I guess it would be in the innermost tube where you see the little "tornado", but correct me if I'm wrong.) Right now my SuckClone only works when it wants to, and if the water level in the tank drops too low from evaporation, it won't produce any sludge at all.

[Pennoyer]

Edkruzel,

I was not attacking you or your knowledge on the ways and means of how a skimmer works in the process of nutrient export. I was simply presenting an alternate, and extremely possible explanation for why Pacific's collection cup could be filling up once a day. This was in response to your immediate declaration that this was a "terrible sign" and that he had too much bioload in his tank for the seaclone to handle.

You made this conclusion absent any further information about the rest of his set-up. You acknowledge this fact by stating:

"For real details you need to ask allot more questions from PI.
Size of tank, types of filtration, bioload, feeding habits, maintenance schedule, water source, and even lighting plays a role in nutrient breakdown."

Therefore, you agree that there could be many more explanations, besides excessive bioload, to why the skimmer's collection cup would need to be emptied once a day. However, none of these reasons were presented to Pacific prior to your proclamation that he was receiving a terrible sign from his tank.

Without the other side to this discussion, and according to your first post the only thing left for Pacific to do was to throw out the seaclone and spend hundreds of dollars on an upgraded skimmer which could quite possibly be an unneeded costly purchase.

As for returning the skimmer, good luck on walking into a store with used skimmer and getting anything other than a crazy look. Therefore, Pacific did the best he could with a bad situation and was simply passing on his experience with improving the skimmer to others in the same predicament he found himself in.

Finally, as I said before my intention was not to attack you only to offer another side to the story, if you took this as an attack I am sorry.

:)

[Pacific Intent]

http://www.reefcentral.com/diy/seaclone_modifications.htm

Try this article. It's where i started. However, when it came to the air stone, I had to tweek the plan a little. It turned out fanulous. I wanted to use a wooden stone because of the bubble size. The problem was that i couldn't find a small enough stone to fit though the riser tube (after i cut it to about 2 1/2 inches as provided inthe article). That's where i got creative.

The additional parts needed were:
1. 1 inch PVC coupling, threaded on the inside at one end(female), just big enough to fit the airstone through
2. threaded cap (male), fitting the above coupling
3. air tubing
4. wooden air stone
5. air pump(the hagen model featured in pet solutions works great for me)
6. PVC cement

Instead of running the air tubing and stone through the top, like this article says, i made a hole just big enough to allow the stone to get into the base (the bottom chamber where the water from the pump enters, but NOT that hole, a new hole). It wasn't so much of a simple hole drilling as it was a carving. The key here is a dremmel tool. Just keep shaving out the hole until the stone I unsed a dremmel tool because it was more of a carving operation. Remember to not put too much pressure because the acrylic will crack. After that, i needed to close off the opening. I took a 1 inch PVC coupling, threaded on the inside at one end(female). Make sure your stone will fit through the coupling. If not go to the 1 1/4 inch. Then, using the dremmel tool, I carved the end opposite the female threading until it fit as close to flush as possible up against the cylinder (seaclone base). Once i was satisfied, i used PVC cement to attach the coupling to the base, around the new hole (where the stone fits). Use as much cement as it takes, but it shouldn't take too much. Hold that in place for a few minutes, until it stays on its own. While that dries, make a hole in a the threaded cap (male) just big enough to fit your air tubing. It should be a snug fit. Feed enough air tubing so that the stone will be in or near the middle of the base, under the riser tube. You may have to play with it a little because to don't want the stone to block the water flow. When you find the right spot, you can use either a little PVC cement or silocone to secure the tubing to the cap. At this point, all you need to do is insert the stone into the tubing, screw in the cap, plug the other end of the air tubing into the air pump, and fire it up! You can use the same maxi jet pump that came with the skimmer. Just be sure to use the intake piece that came with it so that you can attach air tubing to it as well. This will serve as a second adjustable source of air intake.

Also, I removed the loose outer tube between the innermost riser tube and outermost tube, and attached it to the collection cup with PVC cement. Then with the magical dremmel tool, I took about 1/2 inch off of the riser tube inside the cup.

When mine was done, it took a little adjusting. But once I got the production i wanted, i was very satisfied. I get 2 full cups a day of some really nasty dark stinky sludge.

It's an interesting little project, but well worth it.

Good Luck!