Do you fight to pay the check when dining out with friends and family ?

[oz]

or do you prefer to split the check ?

When going out with friends, I usually like to grab the check and pay for it but would expect them to do the same and pay for the "next time". Then our turn, their turn and so on. Even when its their turn, I would sometimes reach for the bill (just to be polite) or offer to split.

If dining with family and close relatives, I usually insist on paying.
Rarely we get into any fighting over the check here though. We seem to know the protocol. It has to do with who you are in the family, your age, your ability to pay, how much money you make etc.
When I was young, I never had to pay and it was always my older family/relatives who pay.

For those who usually split the bill, do you split it 50/50 regardless of what food you got or do you insist on paying only for whatever you ate ?

[iCam]

One of my best friends and I go out and eat alot. If it is just me and her, we split 50/50. If I am with a larger group of friends, we usually pay seperately.

[Fat Man]

I usually just pass the bill to my wife and let her figure it out. Women seem to be better at this, and she's already raided my wallet any way.

[Wilafur]

it depends on the people i got out. there is the "crew" in which we take turns. and there are the other folks were i know they are cheap so we split the bill.

[H22ATypeS]

I just split the thing down to the cent if I'm with a bunch of "friends".....mainly because I get sick and tired of getting stuck with tip / tax / drinks.....damn "friends" always seem to forget to include that portion....But when I am with close friends I just end up paying for the bill.

[dc]

Definately depends on who is with us. We usually buy tho. Sometimes Dan hands me the check and says "You buying?"
:lol:

[emilye2]

Who ever extended the invite is assumed to be paying the bill. At least with our friends and family! :)

[derek_setter]

hmmm we alwasy just all get seperate checks when we go out, me and my friends. Unless it is just like one person then like whoever didn't drive should pay (make up for not paying for the gas) (which it tkaes a lot (2hrs) to drive to and from where we are going).

[CrystalAZ]

With both my husband's family and my family, we always end up paying. Nobody else ever even offers. I would guess that since we have more $$ than they do, they just assume we'll buy.

Not so bad most of the time, but it is annoying when they load up on drinks.

Crystal

[mellen]

Having experienced both sides of the fence on this (by night, I'm a fine dining restaurant server), I would say that most folks just split evenly if it's friends and family, or one pays if it's a business dinner (whoever wants to sell, buys! hah hah!).

If you're the type who likes to treat everyone, just discretely pull your server aside and slip them your card after the dessert/coffee question has been dealt with; a faked trip to make a cell call is the perfect sneaky method, and we'll meet you with the card voucher or change back somewhere out of your partys' view. This avoids drama at tableside, and your server will be glad to play the role of "naughty/dumb" spoiler, too, when you're trying to get back on par with a big shot "I insist" type.

Whatever you do, please please let your family and friends pay when it's your birthday! You'd be amazed how many Dads and Grampas insist on paying for these special nights out, and all it does is make everybody frustrated and resentful/hurt that you wouldn't let them honor you on your birthday or anniversary or Fathers Day with this small courtesy! Also, let your young adult children pay now and then; once again, because this is a chance for them to show their appreciation, and for YOU to demonstrate that you regard them as competent adults, even if you did change a million diapers for them umpteen years ago ;)
.
On the problem with the presumptuous, liquor soaking moochers...er, I mean "relatives", ask the server to make a separate check for alcohol (this will not violate a "no separate checks" house policy, if there is one; government employees cannot use their dept. cards to buy alcohol in most states, so that exception is always allowed). Ask the server to present this freakin' huge dirty martini tab to them and the bigger (?) food bill to you. I can't think of a better hint, 'cause if they kvetch about it out loud, they will be owning up to their parasitic tendencies in public. At least, in that case, you'll have the satisfaction of watching them make complete, undeniable fools of themselves, and what could be sweeter or richer on the palate? Tira misu? Nawwww! If only the Springer Cam could be there, too!

Now, on behalf of my fellow restaurant workers, I would like to point out that the IRS requires that we claim tip income based on our sales, whether we actually make that percentage or not. You all probably already guessed as much, but the problem that comes up quite often is when "mixed media" payments are made on a tab. Some folks put in cash for their share along with a tip, all together in one pile, then others add a card or two telling the server to subtract the cash and divide the remainder to run on the card(s). O.K., fine so far, right? What happens all too often is that the folks paying on the cards don't realize that the server has no idea what amount of the cash is supposed to be their tip and has no choice but to subtract the gross total of cash tendered. When you total and sign the card vouchers with tips based on the cards top line amount, you just unwittedly helped yourself to that servers personal income and gave yourself a discount. The server must pay income taxes based on 14% or more (depending on IRS contract per restaurant) of the entire bill, but may be left with half or less that amount in fact! Plus, servers must tip out other employees; always a busser and bartender (10% & 5% of gross earnings, respectively) and in some places, must also tip out to a captain or wine steward or food runner and the kitchen, too. One can be left holding the bag for income taxes on sales well over what one actually earned sometimes! At no restaurant that I know of is an employee EVER allowed to comment or question a tip in any way shape or form, even if it is just to inquire what dollar amount of cash tendered on a mixed bill payment is intended for them; you must tell us directly, or place the cash tip in a separate pile well away from the bill payment portion. We are at your mercy, as much as at your service, ladies and gentlemen! : D

[oz]

I usually tip 15-20%. Most of the time, its closer to 20%.

A few times when food is very late or not as you asked, waiter was never around, you keep asking for water and whatever and you get it 10 minutes later, etc. I would leave only like 10 percent.

A handful of times going to lunch with colleagues at work, service was very lousy where we basically felt waiter forgot about us and we basically got no service, we left no tip at all.

At one restaurant, a colleague/friend of mine got drinks spilled all over her new white furry coat by the waiter. The coat was brand new, the restaurant owner/manager offered to pay for the dry cleaning. She got them dry cleaned but the stain did not come out completely so she took back the coat and show them then asked the restaurant to pay for a new coat. She even showed receipt of the coat she bought but the restaurant refused to pay her for a new coat. I think that was very shortsighted of the restaurant owner/manager because we told everyone at work about this and we basically boycotted that restaurant.

[Mitchell]

I usually just end up paying.
Most of my friends and family wind up saying "He must be loaded. Did you hear how much he spends on his fish tank?"

mitch:eek1:

[thrlride]

My In-laws pay most of the time. When with friends we usually just have them split the bill. Then I leave extra tip because they think 10% is good. Burns me up!

[thrlride]

Originally posted by Mitchell
I usually just end up paying.
Most of my friends and family wind up saying "He must be loaded. Did you hear how much he spends on his fish tank?"

mitch:eek1:

chances are if you have ologist as the last part of your job title, you are loaded. :D

[mellen]

Mitchell, were it possible, I'd love to wait on you and your tank inhabitants; T Bone for tha doc, Sashimi for tha gills!

As for getting bad service, yeah, I've had the same experience. My best advice is to look at the crew; if more than half are 30 or older, they are either life long pros or at least take the job much more seriously to support their families, and they've got good reason to ride herd on any slackers who cause the place to lose clientele!

[Mitchell]

chances are if you have ologist as the last part of your job title, you are loaded.

Yes, I am loaded.;)

But why do I have to take everyone out to dinner?? Actually I enjoy paying for my family. When I go out with friends, we typically just split the bill.

And I always tip at least 20%

mitch

[mo]

We always pay the tab. Which is fine but no one ever offers to buy next time or just pay their half. Because my husband and I are in the service industry we tip around 30%. We pretty much go to the same restuarants so everyoine knows us and then they fight whos section we get to be in.

[CrystalAZ]

I always tip according to service. I do take into account whether the server seems like they have too many tables or if it is a very busy time, but if my water glass is empty and they are over there giggling with another server about something, it affects the tip for sure.

We've been known to leave huge tips if a server is on the ball and never keeps us waiting. :)

Crystal

[Wilafur]

quality of service = amount of tip. no questions asked.

[mellen]

And that's the way it should be; a tip is called a gratuity because it is a thank you, not a requirement. I have reamed out more than a few inexperienced or "blinder-wearing" servers in my years in the business, because most of those people simply do not belong in any sales or service job; they have no manners and are too self-centered. A slacker staff member or two can cause an otherwise good restaurant to lose tens of thousands of dollars in business from bad word-of-mouth advertising in no time flat! Rather than just jilt the slacker and never return to the place, pull aside a manager or server captain or the host/concierge and calmly explain what all was bad about your service in detail. Better yet, get to someone before your dinner or lunch experience is ruined. If the service is bad because the server is slammed with too many tables, you should still grab someone and alert them - the server won't get yelled at, they will be helped out. It's easy for a less experienced server to get tunnel vision while desperately running around trying to get caught up, and that is when they make mistakes! Sometimes it is caused by inexperienced host/hostesses who don't communicate and just fill the servers station up all at once to clear the line of staring, bored people away from their desk! There is no reason to be shy about complaining (calmly, though); any restaurant that deserves the title wants to make people happy. You are doing yourself and the management a huge favor by being pro-active. Chances are, a much better server will be assigned to mop up the mess and smooth things out, and management will make substantial adjustments to your bill.

The place I work at has been around for 15 years, is busy as hell, and has local, regional and national award plaques plastered all over the walls up front - we didn't get there by letting people walk out P.O.'d!

[Tahoe Ocean]

I'm spoiled. My parents would never let me pay. They hold onto the last little threads of the apron strings and insist that they buy meals for us. They still need to occasionally feel like "providers" and I am not going to argue.
As for dinner out with friends, we generally take turns. When it's acquaintences, we get seperates.

As for tipping, I was never a waitress, I could never do that job, so I pay at least 20% of not more. They deal with way too much crud, they deserve more than they get in many cases.

[mo]

We over tip even the bad ones in hopes they will remember us and try harder the next time. We really don't go to places where you put your name in and wait. Those kind of places you get what you paid for and hope you have an apt server. As I posted this is coming from a bartender / server so I'am not to objective when it comes to tipping. As posted by Mellen a tip is called a gratuity because it is a thank you, not a requirement. Remembethat server is getting paid well under the minimum wage.

[Medaka]

Split...or whoever is rich pays for it.
Especially some multi thousand dollar bill....

[ClemSnide]

I really want to say something lengthy about the food service industry as I've worked it for some years, but I can't. But here's what I can say.

If you order food for delivery and it is within the expected time with no items missing (in regards to the driver's responsibility, which can be different from the kitchen's), give the guy at least 3 bucks even if there is a delivery charge. And in the same vein, have some understanding if there's 2 feet of snow on the ground and you're concerned if your food is fresh hot from the grill/oven/fryer/etc... over the life of the person delivering the food to you.

If you buy a cup of coffee for a 1.79, screw the 11 cents and put itin the servers tip jar. It's not a lot, but it adds up and makes the small purchases (e.g. cigarettes, gas, etc...) take a little less bite out of the check.

And if you order for pick up, and it's a rather large order, and all goes well with it (no problems, blah blah blah...), a buck or two every once in awhile will really make that persons day and they will likely think of you when that person spends it. Seriously.

Mayabe it's not so short, but then I'll have to go into fat, greedy, off the boat Italian bastards taking away tips from poor Mexican immigrant workers because he didn't make enough money off of a party thrown by his coke addict sons.

[iCam]

Just a friendly suggestion: you might want to edit your above post. I am sure somebody will come along and label it as racial, and I think we'd all enjoy for this thread not to get closed as so many others do. Thanks :)

..and I agree to tip delivery people :)

[BrianD]

Mellen, the "reported" tips is just an estimate on your W-2 of the tips you received. Your actual record of tips received is what you should be declaring on your tax return.

[mickey57]

Originally posted by Fat Man
I usually just pass the bill to my wife and let her figure it out. Women seem to be better at this, and she's already raided my wallet any way.
....Damn,You get to keep your wallet;) I just give my wallet to my wife when we go out.NO JOKE:rolleyes: Don't really remember how that started but I believe alcohol had something to do with it,when I used to drink the stuff:confused: I think I will try to keep my wallet next time and see what happens:rollface:
..................Mickey...........

[Fat Man]

Mickey, she doesn't want to carry it She doesn't bring her purse either just reaches for my wallet.

[nolofinwe]

yes, but only when I'm sure the other party is willing to fight just a little more.

[mellen]

BrianD. - 14% is the minimum allowable claim if there were a situation where not all tips are recorded either on charge vouchers or the automatic 18% service charge for large party checks...at most restaurants, just about all the clientele use cards or their bank check card, so really all of our tips get reported. The problem with the IRS is that even though they ackowledge the fact that we must tip out anywhere from 15% to 25% of our gross tip income to other employees before we leave work (they tax those tipped-out tips that those empolyees recieve and demand records be kept of same by management), the server is still taxed on the FULL GROSS of their recorded tips or sales-based tip claim percentage minimum (the 14%). Also, there is no form or code in the tax law that allows servers to deduct lost income from walk-outs; the server must pay for the entire bill and of course, claim that non-existent tip, too, and tip out the other employees as usual even if they were totally wiped out by the walk out...Restaurants and especially bars do not "cover" walk outs generally because it makes them vulnerable to fraudulent claims on non-occuring walk outs by dishonest employees. I've been in the business for 26 years and have been a co-owner and manager and general manager, too, so these are straight facts I'm giving people here... I prefer being a server by far; it is the most income for the fewest hours and is always fun and challenging, especially when you are lucky enough to work for a great restaurant.

Another interesting fact about the government and tipped restaurant/bar employees...we are paid sub-minimum wage ($2.15 to $2.65 per hour) because it is known we will at least earn minimum wage when tips are accounted for; hey, that's fine! I'm all about low labor costs where possible and not hurting anybody> The problem is when you apply for an FHA mortagage;
FHA considers restaurant work to be "part-time" "casual" work, and will not allow you to claim more than 80% of your W2 total earnings as income for qualifying for a loan, even if that is your sole job/profession for 25 years (it happened to a friend,too)... Excuse me? Huh? Why? Nobody knows why, it's just on the books and caused a lot of heartache when I applied to buy a great big old rundown house that I was itching to restore...which I could have done really nicely, too. As it turned out, I ended up with a much smaller house than I wanted or should have been able to qualify for, had the playing field been level. Cie la Vie...

[mo]

:beers: to mellen

[mellen]

:jaegers: back atcha, mo! (click my gallery, last pic!)

[BrianD]

Originally posted by mellen
[B]BrianD. - 14% is the minimum allowable claim if there were a situation where not all tips are recorded either on charge vouchers or the automatic 18% service charge for large party checks...at most restaurants, just about all the clientele use cards or their bank check card, so really all of our tips get reported.

You are confusing the computation of allocated tips with the amount a tipped employee declares on their tax return. If you keep records of your tips or have other proof (copies of receipts, etc), you should report (and pay taxes on) your recorded tips, not what your employer estimates you received.

The problem with the IRS is that even though they ackowledge the fact that we must tip out anywhere from 15% to 25% of our gross tip income to other employees before we leave work (they tax those tipped-out tips that those empolyees recieve and demand records be kept of same by management), the server is still taxed on the FULL GROSS of their recorded tips or sales-based tip claim percentage minimum (the 14%).

Incorrect. The IRS specifically provides for netting tips received against tips paid out.

Also, there is no form or code in the tax law that allows servers to deduct lost income from walk-outs; the server must pay for the entire bill and of course, claim that non-existent tip, too,

Also incorrect. You never pay taxes on income you don't receive. If someone walks out, it may artificially increase the amount of "allocated tips" (but only if the restaurant hasn't accounted properly for this), but you STILL are only required to pay income on net tips you received.

I've been in the business for 26 years and have been a co-owner and manager and general manager, too, so these are straight facts I'm giving people here...

If you want the straight facts, check out the IRS publications on tipped employees.

Bottom line, "allocated tips" are not included on the income line of your W-2 because it is up to YOU to determine the correct amount to report, and the "allocated tips" number is a way for the IRS to determine if people are underreporting tips. Obviously if you receive more in tips than is reported as allocated, you should report the higher number, but you will usually be safe as far as the IRS is concerned if you report at least the reported tips number. Keep good records, and you won't have to worry about it.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p531.pdf

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc402.html

[mellen]

Allocated/gross tip income to all employees per restaurant must equal the contracted amount per IRS agreement per restaurant. Waiters and bartenders will get audited (as will the establishment) if employess or management under-records tips. For this reason, all restaurants/bars keep the original merchant copy voucher receipts (with tips recorded) and all closed check copies for 5 years - this takes up a huge amount of storage space, and the file cartons must be organized properly in case of audit. The small corporation that owns my restaurant and 7 others has 2 full time comptrollers and a CFO who is a CPA to slog through all the thousands of individual checks and vouchers generated by all these restaurants. Specifically, server and bartender checkout reports are inspected by management prior to the employees being allowed to leave the premises, are reconciled to gross/net sales reports from the POS computer service ordering systems reports by the GM and one of the owners next morning prior to being sent over for detailed in-house auditing by the CFO and staff at the corp ofc. Walkouts are not covered by the house. All tips are recorded on paper. And bartenders and servers pay income taxes based on the GROSS, not their net after tipping out other workers as required. IRS regards tip outs as "voluntary" when the tipped-out employees earn fed min wage. Nobody will work in this industry (full service restaurant) for minimum without tip income. The industry is much too labor intensive to pay front of the house employees more than minimum or subminimum with tips. I know of no restaurant/bar that would allow a server or bartender to remain on staff were they to refuse to tip out their bussers/barbacks, bartenders, foodrunners, wine steward, maitr d', or whoever else is on the required tip out list. I can read my checkout report and know that I will see my gross daily tip total add up to equal what appears on my paycheck, as do all employees in my dept.

Here's another fact: denied charges (chargebacks) are paid back to the house by the server or bartender who ran the card for payment on a check on their sales account. There is no option but to pay it; POS means point of sale. Sale being defined practically as this; the server bought your meal from the house when they rang it up on the POS computer, the customer re-imburses the server by paying the bill. If the customer walks out, the server has already paid for that bill - it is on their sales record. Believe me, BrianD, I wish it was elsewise, and corporate wishes it was elsewise; my company has helped with tax attorney fees the few times their workers have been audited, and those employees prevailed in the audit every time because of the careful record-keeping used by my company. There is very little in the way of unrecorded cash tip income, and corporate really doesn't care about it because they know their tipped employees are over-paying income taxes in the first place...and that those tipped out tips are being taxed twice before they leave the house; server pays on gross, including the tipped out income, and the bussers/barbacks, bartenders, maitre d', etc. pay tax on those same tips, too. IRS is usually happy if the total of all recorded tips at least equal the minimum; in fact, the amount reported to them greatly exceeds that minimum (our clientele are generous, and rarely tip under 18%).

I must leave for work now, and am very interested to read the links you kindly provided when I get home late tonight. I will also discuss this with our CFO, who happens to be a friend from way back in the industry. Believe me, if there is any reasonable way for us to avoid having to make servers/bartenders less vulnerable to lost income from walkouts, we will want to act on it immediately. Other than that, though; don't worry. I most definitely pay my fair share of income taxes, and then some : )...

[BrianD]

Allocated/gross tip income to all employees per restaurant must equal the contracted amount per IRS agreement per restaurant

Correct in part. A restaurant can enter into a TRDA or TRAC in which the restaurant agrees to increased reporting, for which the IRS will allow the restaurant to use a computed tip rate for all employees.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/foodtrda.pdf

The caveat is that all employees must report tips on their tax return to equal or exceed the agreed rate. Wonderful if you are tipped at that rate, not so wonderful if you are not. Basically if you sign off on this agreement as an employee, the IRS agrees not to audit you. If you dont' receive tips at that rate, there is little incentive to sign onto the program.

By the way, you can see on the above reference that there are specific computations reducing tips for "stiffs", "tip outs", etc.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1872.pdf

Tip-outs DO NOT have to be reported to employer, only the amount of TIPS RETAINED. This is per the above IRS publication. Please cite your reference that states that you must pay taxes on "gross tips", because that is contrary to all of the above IRS publications.

Here's another fact...

See above publications.

[mellen]

Thanks, Brian. That were some interesting PDFs. I'll be talking to corporate and verifying what they are doing, and if they are fully aware of these IRS forms and doc rules. Could turn into an interesting conversation, too.