Bare Bottom Tanks

[fishandkids]

Okay, I don't think I am a fan of BB tanks but doing some research. Will I have issues with a 2" Sandbed down the road? Do the negatives "Old Tank Syndrome (OTS) only apply to DSB's? I have a Jawfish that I would really miss if I went bare bottom with my new tank, but I do want to keep SPS.

Questions:

1. Do you have a DSB?

2. How long have you had a DSB?

3. What should the max depth of a sandbed be to avoid future problems?

Thanks,

--Scott

[Misfit6669]

I didn't go DSB, mostly didn't like the look. Now I am kinda glad I didn't. I am at 1" to 2" depending on the flow. I would like to setup my sump to have a DSB down the road. I think the negatives of DSB's are highly debated based mostly on opinions and not facts.
This is only my opinion based of very little facts.

[fishandkids]

Thanks Brian, I was reading a post about tanks mysteriously crashing after five years or so and the current "Bare Bottom" trend, I got curious. I wouldn't run a DSB in the main tank but depending on the day my clowns pile the sand pretty high 3-3.5" and that has me a little nervous.

Anyone have a Bare Bottom Tank? I benefit I could see and have read about is increase flow.

--Scott

[artful-dodger]

The only benefit I could see in bare bottom is ease of cleaning. I keep my quarantine tank bb, but I sure wouldn't like the look in a display tank. (The jawfish or goby burrowing issue was just one reason.)

[Oyster]

I am glad to hear this topic among our club,Brian (please bare with me as i have not had a tank set up) does junk collect on or in youre sandbed?How are youre parameters...how often do you need to do waterchanges,do you have a fuge?I would Love to Hear Stormbringer Chime in...As i remember you have a romote DSB...How has This worked for you Pros,Cons....To youre otherset ups in the past.This is one of The questions I Think about commonly at 4am....its driveing me Bonkers...lol .Thanks in advance.

[WifesaysImnuts]

I have a 4" bed in my current tank and I'm going to use a thicker one in my new tank.

Going by the many threads (or flame wars ;) ) about them, I get the impression that they'll last 3-5 years before going south. During that time there seeems to no question that they work as advertised though. I'll probably have to move in that amount of time anyway, so I figure I'll put one in and see how it goes. When I move, I'll take measure of how well it did and decide again from there.

It seems to me that most of the arguement boils down to whether you want to tear yor tank down every five years or vacume every week. It seems like the same amount of work to me, so the choice is do it all at once or spread it out over 5 years.

[Misfit6669]

I would say my sand is pretty clean. I have lots of cleaners that do a pretty good job. I have 1 cuc, 1 sand star, bunch of horny hermits, lots of different snails, lots of shrimp and a conch in a pear tree. I have lots of those spaghetti worms and they will grab anything within there reach in the sand. I went thru the standard algae and cyano (sp) breakout at the beginning but all seems to be good now. I do water changes every two weeks or so. That reminds me, need to check parameters this weekend. Will get back with you on that one.
Brian

[fishandkids]

Gary, ease fo cleaning would be a plus but I don't vacume my sandbed now.

I enjoy the sand life part of my tank too much to give it up.

Patrick good point about the 5 years, moving or redoing. Plus having to vacuum every week, but that may be pretty easy to do....

Maybe I'll try it on my FOWLR, I don't get much benefit from my CC anyway and with the Fish Only I can't keep any sand stirrers or other cool stuff......

--Scott

[artful-dodger]

Doing a weekly sand cleaning would pretty much disrupt the potential benefits of a DSB. The whole objective (as I understand the arguments) is to create an anaerobic denitrification layer down there. Some sand sifters make sense, but regular cleaning wouldn't.

[dubitup]

5yr life span huh! I read D. Ron's sand bed book prior to installing a 3-4" southdown sandbed and I do not recall reading anything about a 5yr life span. I've had my new SB in the tank now for a little over a month now, it seems happy, but now you've got me worried - but I guess it was better than the CC SB I had before.

What happens near the 5yr point?

[fishandkids]

Gary, Totally agree. Vacuuming would only work on a BB, I wouldn't do it with sand, that's why we have critters.

[fishandkids]

Dubitup, mysterious/unexplainable dying off, according other reefers. I just did a search and read some horror stories.

[COreefer]

If the sb is 2" it will require maintenence after a while(stiring, vaccuming, etc...). 1" and less no maintenece and dsb minimal maintence required The dsb debate is one without resolve...its like a cornhole if you catch my drift.

The thought is that dsb's trap organics and they sit there breaking down into no3 and po4 (3-4" in the dsb). If disturbed the organics could be released into the system causing problems after a couple of years of decay. With a BB or 1" sb the organics are removed via skimming and or a remote dsb housed in the fuge. The thought is that a remote dsb is easily removed after it has aged versus a dsb in the main system which is a pita to remove due to the fear of contamination.

This is a brain damage topic that is totally opinionated right now. There is no data to support either or, nor is there evidence to discredit either or.

IMO 1" and less sb's are the best, but not if you plan on keeping a jawfish or other burrowing organism. This is where it comes down to each individual's preference for aquascaping.

[DrMilhouse]

I'm using a DSB in my display and in my fuge. It's anywhere from 4-6 inches at any given point.I probably could have gotten away with less in the display and gone with just two inches, but there is literally no maintenance that I do for the DSB in either and both seem to be quite healthy. I've been set up this way for 20 months with a move 8 months ago. All seems well.

[rock455]

Mine is 3" to 4" setup this way for over 15 months ... no moves ... all parameters are good and have very little issues with spikes of any kind. I too like the look of a DSB. I have a couple fighting conchs and plenty of cleaners ... my SB stays pearly white on the upper layer most of the time. Haven't heard of a 5 year lifespan though.

[jdallred]

We have been running a 4" dsb in a 55 for right a 2yrs w/great success, so far. We do however have a pistol shrimp/goby pair that does a great job disturbing not only the top layer but as deep as 3" into the sb :mad: . Although I have read many threads stating that a disruption of the deeper layers of the sb can be detrimental our tank has shown no ill effects because of this constant disruption and has never had any problems. I have posed this question many times with no one being able to explain why this is. I have often wondered if this disruption affects the efficiency of the dsb however with only 8% water changes conducted every three or four weeks (if that) the nitrates are negligible. I personally do not like the look of the dsb in a display and plan on going w/a 1� to 1 ½� sb in the new 300 with a dsb in the fuge.

[Oyster]

Correct me plz..but i have heard that there is a min surface area for which a dsb would be effective.What i mean is if i set up a 90 gallon tank How large(surface)fuge would i need to house the 4''to6'' sandbed?Also would a Remote sandbed only filter what is in the water column?Would a 1''to 2''sb cause more sand storms associated with powerhead flows?I know i am bombarding with questions but i figure here is my chance.

[scchase]

I have had a sandbed setup in my 150 for 5 years now had to restock it last year after bug fogging killed most my critters and the only algea problem I have is Bryopsis which seems to grow well no matter the type of filtration you are using. Stinkin devil algea nothing eats it and it likes the same conditions as my corals. In my high nutrient no skimmer tnak it does worse then in my SPS reef tank with skimmer and all go figure. I am working on an idea that would involve shallow 6 inch trays approx 3'x3' stacked on top of one another with 4-5 inch sandbes that drain down into a sump providing a massive amount of sergace area. When I move into my next house I will implement this fileter situation. Dr Shimek was optomistic about my idea. 6 plates stacked on each other draining down would have a total surface area of 54 sq feet. Thats a lot of surface area be like covering a small room in sand.
Scott

[fishandkids]

Eric, Thanks you are making me feel bad I brought it up! :) BTW I have a bar of cyclopeeze for you. PM me. I know it is a dead horse and opinions will very. Thanks for yours.

Dr. appreciate the input.

Jallred, I have a number of critters that do a job on my sandbed, 1" here 3.5" there I hope them stirring it up keeps my toxins down....

Scott, sounds like one huge filtration system. What does Byprosis look like? I have a cyano like algae in my FOWLR that is too tough to get rid of. Good luck killing it.

[gkmartinez]

I am planning on a 180 and I am thinking about using the starboard, somewhat barebottom. The one thing I disliked was the loss of viewing surface. Was skiming a thread by Eric B. in which he showed that their was no life whatsoever in the sand at the ocean. Kinda swayed me.

[reefing in FtC]

I switched to a bare bottom tank two months ago. It has been great so far. I have an acrylic tak and it was too easy to scratch with the sand when I was cleaning. I was also battling cyno before the switch; and now it is gone. I have a turnover rate to 45x per hour which tends to keep detris in suspension for the Lifereef skimmer.

I have had to dose more buffer since removing the sand, but all other water parameters have stayed the same.

[saline]

Always a fun topic...
The store I worked at many years ago, we had our 175G display tanks bare bottom. They held up just fine for over 8 years until we moved them to a new location. Gonipora, leathers, polyps, anemones, etc, all thrived in the tank. The tanks ran on different filter systems, but had the same results. One tank had a wet/dry, protein skimmer. The other one used the Rainbowgard filter system, no protein skimmer.
After the move one tank was switched to fresh and one tank stayed a reef. The reef received a 4" mixed bed with the wet/dry skimmer combo and has been running without problem now for over 5 years.
Myself, I have one 29G reef with about 2" of crushed coral on the bottom, a hangon filter, no skimmer. Never touch the bottom, never even do water changes (just top off). The tank is going strong into it's 3rd year without any issues. The minimalist approach, in the case, has worked out very well. Of note is that the tank only has 2x18W 50/50 lighting which nicely works well in promoting the growth of many different mushrooms and polyps.
I also have a 75G that is set up with wet/dry, skimmer, and 4x96W PC. About 1yr old now and just managed to pick up some cyano from a recent addition. I'm trying to clear it out manually before I resort to Chemi-clean...