"oceanencounter.com" "BAD EXPERIENCE"

[Chaotic Reefer4u]

hi everyone here at reefcentral:D i just had a bad experience from these guys online>ocean encounter.com i ordered a 10k 400w evc halide bulb from them, to my dismay when i turned the light on it was yellow in color:( im thinking that 10k's are blue/white colored right? good for reefs! i e-mailed vince at ocean encounter and told him my misfortune:( he replied by stating that he could not do anything for me unless it was defected:confused: i told him i made a simple mistake and ordered the wrong one if he could correct it and send me the right one:rolleyes: he never replied to my calls and e-mails:confused: i also noted that on oceanencounter website they dont put any information about the kelvin or colors of the lamps?i really thought i was going to get a nice halide bulb reef ready blue/white colored together,i guess not and shame on me for ordering it in the first place with no information on it:( i just want to know what or have you had any experiences with this online merchant? thanx for your feedback, a reefer who's confused about ordering from this person for the first time. i have never purchased anything online before, and when i do i get gaffled:confused: thanx everybody.

[VinceC]

Hi,
Just to respond. I did email you back every time you contacted me. You stated that you were not happy with the color of the bulb after you used it for awhile. You stated the following in your email:
i want the white and blue in one bulb, daylight and actinic together, i guess i need the 20k bulb because it has both, and the corals seems to do better

You stated that you ordered the wrong bulb in your first email. You used the bulb and that is why I could not exchange it for a 20k bulb. If it was defective and yellow then I would gladly replace it which I told you in my email. You then called me and told me the bulb was not defective but you had just made a mistake and ordered the wrong bulb.Then you emailed again and again I told you to return the bulb if is yellow and I will replace the bulb. If you were not sure what kind of bulb you needed to get the blue affect you should have asked and I would have recommended the 20 k instead of the 10 k. As far as the web site not mentioning the kelvin the 10k is the kelvin.


Vince

[seatown76]

It does state right on the website the kelvin rating:

400 watt 10K $54.00

[Chaotic Reefer4u]

first of all i did not tell you that the bulb was not defected! i told you i put it on my reeftank and it was yellow in color. and when i did e-mail you, your reply was,send it back and i will give you another 10k bulb thats supposed to be a crisp white and not yellow correct? i stated that i wanted a 20k bulb with the blue instead. thats what i wanted in the first place but got these two wrong thinking the 10k would have a tint of blue also? furthermore you said that you would only send me the same bulb in return after you examine the one i send back to you! if its proven to be defected. if you would be more informative and have a description on each color on the bulbs your selling this wouldnt have ended the way it is now. you need to take some lessons from hamilton technology's website on halide bulbs! they are very informative and let you know everything about the bulb before you buy it to make sure you order the right one. a customer shouldnt have to call you and ask you these questions! thats why we order online. besides you dont even answer your calls......???? since i tried to be one of your customers for the first time, you would think ok just a simple mistake let me send him the right one and then send me a prepaid return package to send the one i got back to you. but your not so thats why im here posting my experience with you @ reefcentral to let everybody here know> "Buyer Beware" when ordering from this merchant! usually all online vendors will correct the mistake even if its on the buyers part. no questions asked! to make the customer happy and coming back. if you would have corrected this matter the way that you should have i would be very pleased to keep ordering from you. i just ordered the wrong bulb for gods sake! you should have sent me the right one right away as soon as i informed you about it! oh,well i will learn from this......"THE END" and for you seatown76, this issue isnt about the kelvin rating!

[DT's_Reef]

I've bought lots of halide bulbs and do not know of any retailer that will let you send back a bulb after you use it, even if you mistakenly ordered the wrong bulb. The retailer can't sell it as new, so why should they eat the cost because you made a mistake? If the bulb is defective, it's a different story as they can send it back to the manufacturer for credit.

I can also see why some retailers do not put descriptions on the bulbs because it can be highly subjective. I've seen descriptions claim the bulb is white when it actually turns out yellow. Or, maybe the bulb is white, but because your water has a yellowish tint, it looks more yellow than it actually is. Again, it's very subjective and I really feel it's up to the consumer to know what they're buying before they order. I think the retailer should be helpful and answer questions about color, etc. Keep in mind bulb color can also depend on the type of ballast driving the bulb (e.g., HQI type, electronic).

As far as Kelvin rating is concerned, it seems to me the issue *is* about kelvin rating. If you were an informed consumer you would know that 10k bulbs do appear yellowish. If they appear truly white, then it's much more probable they're 13k or 14k. You were unhappy with the bulb's color, thus you're unhappy with the fact that the bulb is 10k (10 Kelvin).

It just seems that you're thinking halide bulbs can be returned if you're not satisfied with the performance. It's not like buying a shirt from Nordstrom and then returning it because you don't like the color. That's different. Nordstrom is a large company and they price their clothing higher in order to accommodate this convenience/cost. Most online vendors are small and can't afford to do business this way, and price their products low to begin with. And no, I'm not a vendor, just a hobbyist who doesn't want to see a vendor unfairly slighted on a public forum.

[Zigzag Man]

Okay, first let me state that this is the first time I've even heard of Ocean Encounter, so I have nothing at stake here and nothing to gain...

Now that I've made that statement, let me comment on a few things:

i stated that i wanted a 20k bulb with the blue instead. thats what i wanted in the first place but got these two wrong

So right up front you admit that it was 'your' mistake.

furthermore you said that you would only send me the same bulb in return after you examine the one i send back to you! if its proven to be defected.

This is standard practice with electronic items... once an electronic item has been 'used', it is no longer considered 'new'... for him to simply exchange bulbs would be his first loss of $$ due to your (admitted) mistake. (Are these 'Russian' bulbs? I keep seeing the word 'defected' floating around... LOL :D )

if you would be more informative and have a description on each color on the bulbs your selling this wouldnt have ended the way it is now. you need to take some lessons from hamilton technology's website on halide bulbs!

Well, if the vendor doesn't have a description of the bulb listed, you can either: (a) e-mail them and ask, or (b) post a thread and ask here... don't just order a non-returnable item blindly.

a customer shouldnt have to call you and ask you these questions! thats why we order online.
Uh... I think I have to ask more questions when ordering something online than buying locally... I don't order online because it allows me to ask 'less' questions... the questions have to make up for you being able to see, touch, smell, etc. a product, since basically you're purchasing something after looking at a pretty picture.

since i tried to be one of your customers for the first time, you would think ok just a simple mistake let me send him the right one and then send me a prepaid return package to send the one i got back to you.

And now you expect the vendor to pay yet again for 'your' mistake... they have no responsibility to prepay the shipping on an item you're returning, unless it was 'their' mistake...

but your not so thats why im here posting my experience with you @ reefcentral to let everybody here know> "Buyer Beware" when ordering from this merchant!

Actually, you're kinda embarassing yourself in this forum... so far you sound pretty unreasonable to me... it appears the vendor was attempting to rectify the situation had you received a 'defective bulb, and would have replaced it without question.

usually all online vendors will correct the mistake even if its on the buyers part. no questions asked! to make the customer happy and coming back.
I agree that this is 'above and beyond' customer service, which makes customers happy, but in no way is it 'required'... in fact a lot of merchants I know will make you pay return shipping, and will inspect the product before either replacing it or exchanging it for another... so exactly how is this business any different?

I just ordered the wrong bulb for gods sake!

Once again you admit that it was 'your' mistake.

you should have sent me the right one right away as soon as i informed you about it!

... and once again you imply that it was the vendors responsibility to rectify your mistake. :rolleyes:

...this issue isnt about the kelvin rating!

Well, then exactly what is it about??? you ordered the wrong kelvin bulb and are unhappy with the color... it appears to me that this is exactly the issue at hand.

Sometimes when you're on one side of an issue, it's hard to see the other. What most other people would have done, is buy the second bulb, then post a thread in the 'For Sale and Trade' forum and gotten rid of the first... not attempt to browbeat the vendor into submission in a public forum.
Don't get me wrong, if the vendor is at fault, then I'm all for them 'making good' on an order, but in this case I don't think it's warranted... just chalk it up as a learning experience where you didn't do several things that you should have done before buying.

Please don't think I'm flaming you... just am trying to show you how you look to some of us out here.

[Chaotic Reefer4u]

ok, dt's-reef since im an uninformed consumer and my water has a yellow tint! thanks for the put down and flames, lol, i will count my losses here. and for zig-zag man, thanx for the flames and saying that im embarrassing myself! i just will have to be more careful with what i purchase online from now on! peace be with you, and also with you.......:o)

[redFishblue]

CoralsOfTheworld,
Picking mh bulb can be really tricky. Even the blueness of the 20K bulb will vary according to the brand. My XM 20K looks purple next to my AB20K that looks white w/blue tint.

[Brewboy74]

You are not being flamed Coralsoftheworld. They are just pointing out some of the flaws in your logic. If your ready to post a complaint about a merchant then you need to be ready to accept folks questioning your claim. In this case you really don't have anything to complain about. You made a mistake in ordering the wrong bulb and thats it.

Expecting the merchant to replace the bulb after you have used it is unreasonable.

[Zigzag Man]

CoralsOfTheWorld,
Please don't take my comments that way... sometimes it's hard to get your point across without sounding like you're flaming somebody (which is why I added the disclaimer).

I understand you're upset with the whole situation, but I think you're shifting the blame from yourself to someone else, which is the point I was getting at.

Oh, and peace be with you, too. ;)

[JCURRY@WESKETCH]

I've purchased almost $3K in drygoods from Vince and I must say he was great to deal with. Whenever I wasn't sure about something I would just email him my question before ordering and he always responded promptly. I will definitley continue to do business with Vince @ Ocean Encounter.

Jeff

[Crusty Old Shellback]

I've never bought or dealt with oceanencounters so I want to state that up front. Corals of the world, I bought two 10K 250W MH bulbs from two different manufactures. I put the new bulbs on a new ballast. One was blue/white, the other was yellow. It had nothing to do with who I bought them from. Different manufactures make differnt bulbs that even though they may have the same Kelvin rating, will look very differently. To come here nad flame the vendor as you have because of you being uninformed is not a good way to start. Most vendors that you find on RC seem to go more than the extra mile to take care of people, otherwise, they don't stay in bussiness very long. I think OE tried to help you but you did not want to accept what was a very friendly gester to help you situation. Maybe next time, you should do some research before you buy something you can't see. There are a lot of good threads here at RC on just about everything. Sanjay has done some extensive testing of various MH bulbs and posted his results on here. Do a search for him and I'm sure you will find it. Good luck with your tank and please don't let this deter you from continuing with the hobby. Peace be with you as well. ;)

[Joeldb]

I can't find the link right now but there is a good bulb comparison page somewhere on the net where you can compare 2 different bulbs side by side. If anyone has this link and would like to post it that'd be great. I think anyone who has been into reefkeeping for very long has eaten a pair of bulbs that they didn't like (I have). What that taught me through a $200 experience is that I need to ask questions and pay attention to what other nice looking tanks have on them. I had a semi-bad experience in the past where an e-tailer (don't remember who) sold me csl 10k bulbs but shipped me blueline super blue 10k bulbs. The e-tailer informed me (after I received the bulbs and was unhappy) that they had discontinued the csl bulbs and they were no longer available so they substituted the Bluelines instead. After talking with them they did buy me a pair of csl bulbs from another e-tailer and sent out a call tag for the Blueline bulbs. I was ultimately satisfied but was still a little miffed by not being informed of a substitution. (the invoice even said Custom Sealife 10k 175w bulbs, but the bulbs were stamped Blueline) IMHO it sounds like this vendor has done their job but it just doesn't make sense to let everyone try out bulbs til their happy with the color. The e-tailer should only be responsible for providing what you order, and the product arriving damage free at your door. Any other issues (workmanship etc) are ultimately the manufacturers deal but most good e-tailers (and retailers) will handle the warranty stuff to keep you coming back.

[db138]

I think this is the link you are talking about Joeldb:

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=254667