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View Full Version : LPS Woes.... at my wit's end.


Dakota_reef
07/28/2004, 02:02 AM
Okay. I have a 50 gal tank with a 10gal sump that has
been running for almost a year (10 months). I have had
some problems with some of my LPS. My hammer is in
terrible shape. He's been in ther the longest. Out of
the 4 stalks of my torch, two of them are never open
and their flesh is receeding (not as bad as the
hammer). The other two stalks remain 1/2 open most of
the time. My open brain appears to be closed most of
the time as well. At night, however, it will open up
and show the little filter feeding things. But it
never looks like when I got it, or any other open
brain I've seen. I've had the hammer since last NOV;
the torch since JAN, and the brain since MAR.

All of my other corals (especially my xenia) are
suffering NO problems. In fact, their just plain
beautiful. My xenia's growing like a weeds. My leather
has grown a bit too; mushrooms have begun to spread. I
cannot, for the life of me, figure out why my LPS are
all "dying." The only problem with the tank is that
the alkalinity has been hard pressed to keep above 3.0
sometimes. Not sure why. Also, my fish dont' seem to
be growing much either... at least my ocellaris. I do
not know why either. Vitamin defficiency? They appear
healthy..... If anyone has any ideas on what the
problem could be PLEASE help me. Below are my tank
specs and parameters.

~Eric

858-693-3714

It is currently filtered by an aquaclear 300 and
skimmed by a Euro-reef ES-6. I have an approx. 700 gph flow rate with 2 175 gph powerheads (one in upper left pointed toward the front, one in the lower right, pointed to the left along the back). I have my return line angled front right and it is placed to the right of the aquaclear 300 which is on the left side of the tank. The return line is approx. 250-300 gph.)

--220w PC lights.

Currently inhaitants are:

1 skink cleaner shrimp
1 neon goby
1 yellow watchman goby
1 tiger pistol shirmp
1 yellow clown goby
1 ocellaris clown
3 emerald crabs
Various snails/hermits
(there may be some peppermints in there, but they've
since disapeared w/o a trace). (most recenlty added livestock, within the last two months.)

Corals:

Lots of xenia
leather
ricordia mushroom
yellow polyps
zooanthalids(sp)
open brain (most recenlty added)
Hammer
torch

tank specs:
Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate = 0
phosphate - 0
temp ~80-82 in summer, 79.5 in winter
pH 8.2
alk ~ 3.0 - 3.5
Ca 450 ppm
SG - 1.025

Bi-weekly Additions of eco-system REEF SOLUTION and
Reef-pure IODIDE.

Feeding of cyclopseeze to corals every week or two, when open.

10% water changes weekely, skimmer cleaned weekly,
sponges rinsed weekly, weekly diatom scrub, and
monthly addition of carbon.

sjvl51
07/28/2004, 07:01 AM
Since you are adding iodine, what is your reading? Too much iodine will adversely affect your corals.

I would increase your water changes to 20 to 30%. This article explains how effect 10% vs 20 to 30% water changes are - http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/april2004/short.htm

Vickie

EricHugo
07/28/2004, 08:57 AM
possibly allelopathy - a reaction by the stony corals to the chemical compounds produced by the thriving soft corals in your tank. I would do water changes galore and run carbon heavily and see if you start to see any improvement. It may take a while to see re covery, or they may look immediately relieved.

Dakota_reef
07/28/2004, 12:28 PM
Thank you so much. That'st he first theory about what could be wrong I've heard in a LONG time! Would you suggest a larger quantity weekly, or perhaps smaller quantities 2x a week or more? And if/when my LPS recover, does this mean I should not have them in the same tank as my softies? Or just stick to more water changes in the future? Thanks!

~Eric

PS I haven't' tested for iodide... but maybe that means I should :-/

MCsaxmaster
07/28/2004, 04:19 PM
Not to step on Eric's toes, but "water changes galore" and "run[ning] carbon heavily" is more than what you're thinking.

As the soft corals are producing allelpathic chemicals (literally poisons designed to harm other organisms) the water your hard corals are in is literally poisonous to them. Every moment they are in this water they are further harmed. As such, removing this water from them as quickly as possible should be a goal.

If it were my tank I'd do a ~50% water change everyday for the next 3-5 days. I'd also use a large quantity of activated carbon and run this continuously. Going about things in a manner less aggressive than this likely will not work. We really want to get as close to 100% of the old water removed as possible in a relativley short period of time.

As Eric said the stony corals may immediately respond and start looking better (think of them as giving a sigh of relief) or it may take them a little time to recover.

Trying to keep all these corals together may work in the future if you run lots of carbon often as well as doing large, frequent water changes. The stony corals and soft corals, however, may never get along requiring separation to different systems of water.

In any event, I'd get mixing water and check back in in a few days.

Cheers,

-Chris

EricHugo
07/28/2004, 07:00 PM
Thanks Chris....you took my next post's words right off of my fingers. Exactly right.

Dakota_reef
07/28/2004, 07:31 PM
So how often shoudl I change out the carbon? And I wont' be able to age my SW mix for very long if I'm changing 50% a day. . . is 24 hours enough?

Also, I may move the LPS so a 10 gal QT tank for a while to recover. Will 55watts be enough in there? And will that little tank need a skimmer? I just feel that maybe I should get them out of the current system. . .

~Eric

thedude
07/28/2004, 08:46 PM
Just in case, you should also test your iodine levels (as sjvl51 said). A good rule of thumb is to never add something that you aren't testing for regularly.

A high iodine level can do a number on your tank. Although I would think it would affect all the corals and not just some. Just the same, test for it, and see where you are.

michaelg
07/29/2004, 06:50 AM
Can someone elaborate more on what "run carbon heavily" means? Large quantity, or moderate quantity with frequent changing? One of thos ambiguous terms I've never had quite explained.
Thanks.

EricHugo
07/29/2004, 08:27 AM
That's a good question, and I don't have an answer. The way I interpret it is take whatever the recemmended usage is, multiply by 2, 3, 5 or more, and change twice as often.

I think others might interpret according to running it in a designated media unit constantly vs. a few hours a day. Not sure if that has any functional meaning, as I am not sure if we know how fast and how effective various carbons are at ab/adsorbing various things.

Since I have a bag of carbon roughly the size of a large mulch bag, I'm a little more generous with it than if I were buying 8 oz containers for 12 bucks or whatever. I am chunking in a couple "gallon size bags" and changing it every 2-3 months into 650 gallons

Dakota_reef
07/29/2004, 04:50 PM
okay... I'm going to get myself an iodine test kitl. But I'm in Seattle till Tuesday. I was also told that carbon in a SW tank should be changed out no longer then one week. . . . . I've heard others tell me a month is fine. The bag I have in there now had been in there since Sunday. As soon as i get home, I'm gonna do the 2 50% changes, and then go from there. so is 24 hours good enough to let the salt mix? Thank you all again.

~Eric

TurboRook
07/29/2004, 06:16 PM
I would also recommend running a Poly Filter (by Poly Bio Marine) as well. It will help pull out stuff the carbon might not get.

EricHugo
07/30/2004, 07:56 AM
Good call, Turbo.

Eric, yes that sounds like a fine plan. As for carbon changing, it depends on what and how much the carbon is removing, the flow rate through it, the condition of the carbon's surface, and the quality of the carbon.