Well water

[edfish]

I may be moving to a house that uses well water. Have people had big issues with that? I use RO DI.

Secondly, the well may be high in sulfur. Will RODI take that out sufficiently? Thanks

Oh yeah, I'm keeping a bit of everything with DE bulbs, etc

[jtkld75]

I too would be interested in an answer to that question.. Im getting very high TDS readings after running thru 6stages of ro/di, anyone??

[billsreef]

Well water can vary tremendously in quality. I'd start with getting a sample analyzed at a lab first. With that information you can than look into what is needed for your particular situation. That said, there are a couple of generalizations that can be made. You will need a pressure booster pump, and some kind of warming system to raise the temperature of the water in order to increase the efficiency of any given RO system ;)

[jtkld75]

bill, we have a pressure tank, with a psi gague coming out of it, it reads 60 psi.. How does this seem, also there seems to be some kind of pump there too, its a small grey "square d" box with 2 wires that go into a fuse box? i believe this is thepum[ as i have heard it turn on, anyway to increase teh pressure?

[billsreef]

The "square d" box is the pressure switch. If you were to watch the pressure guage as the tank empties, the pump switches on and refills the tank you would the pressure fluctuate. Generally bewteen about 30 psi and 70 psi depending on the system and the settings on the switch. RO systems are more efficient at high pressure, so that drop really hurts the efficiency and hence the need for a booster pump on the RO system. It also tends to come out of the ground rather chilly.

[jtkld75]

so how much extra is this going to cost to get it actually working,,, and what about the high tds?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You should not have high TDS after a DI. How high is it?

from this article:

What is TDS?
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-04/rhf/feature/index.htm

"

7. If you are using a TDS or conductivity meter to monitor the performance of an RO membrane, then the measured value should drop by at least a factor of 10 from the starting tap water. So, for example, if the tap water reads 231 ppm, then the RO water should be less than 23 ppm. In many cases, it will drop much more than that. Less of a drop than a factor of 10 indicates a problem with the RO membrane.

8. If you are using a TDS or conductivity meter to monitor the performance of an RO/DI system, then the measured value should drop to near zero. Maybe 0-1 ppm. Higher values indicate that something is not functioning properly, or that the DI resin is becoming saturated and needs replacement. However, that does not necessarily mean that 2 ppm water is not OK to use. But beware that it may begin to rise fairly sharply when the resin becomes saturated. Do not agonize over 1 ppm vs. zero ppm. While pure water has a TDS well below 1 ppm, uncertainties from carbon dioxide in the air (which gets into the water and ionizes to provide some conductivity) and the TDS meter itself may yield results of 1 or 2 ppm even from pure water. "

[dendronepthya]

I am dealing with something similar with my well. It is the nastiest water I have ever heard of, and unfiltered does very strange things. First off, it has a TDS of 900. I am also seeing all sorts of precipitation at the bottom of the tank. It is crazy.

For me to get this water useable, I will likely have to spend a good deal of money on a sediment pre-filter, carbon pre-filter, water softener, RO, and then a DI. If I go with much less, the individual filters will be quickly expended.

[edfish]

Aditional info: the well has hard water. Do you'all think this is better / worse/unknowable t han softwater. I understand there is a softener in the system. Thoughts?

Thanks

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I wouldn't use well water, regardless of how hard or soft it is. The issues around copper and other metals remains.

[billsreef]

Randy, even in some areas with "city" water the water comes from wells ;)

[edfish]

If not using well water in a rural area, I guess you have to order distilled water.

Any way to do this cost effectively/ in quantity?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy, even in some areas with "city" water the water comes from wells

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I wouldn't use tap water from any source, wells or otherwise. :)

I would (and do) use RO/DI to purify the tap water.

[edfish]

Ok. Randy, In your experience, does RO/DI treat all/most well water sources? Thanks

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

RO/DI, if functioning properly, will make any water suitable for a reef aquarium. :)

[dendronepthya]

Technically, a DI would pretty much make pure water out of anything. The resin would be depleated quickly without the RO system in front of it. Likewise, if your water is very hard, the RO system would quickly clog if you didn't have a softener in front of it. The worse your water is, the more you have to invest in technology so you do not blow through expensive membranes and resins.

[npaden]

Dendro,

I'm not sure, but I think you may not have your hard vs. soft water theory correct. A water "softener" just trades out one set of ions for another, it doesn't really take anything out of the water that would otherwise clog a RO system. I have what I considered to be pretty bad well water with a TDS near 400 and IMO the best way to get it useable is a series of sediment prefilters starting at 5 microns and getting down to .5 microns. It still is very hard on RO membranes and eats up DI cartridges so I just use DI for top off and regular RO for water changes.

FWIW, Nathan

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

RO membranes sometimes get "scale" deposits of calcium and/or magnesium carbonate on them that can clog them. So if the water is very hard, that might be a concern in some areas.

[dendronepthya]

npaden,
Pretty much what Randy said. My well water started precipitating out cornflake-sized flakes of what looks to be calcium carbonate. That stuff would certainly clog up a RO membrane. You are right though, the water softener basically binds up the Ca, Mg, Fe, etc. ions and replaces it was Na which does not scale like the others.

[npaden]

Have your tried the series of sediment prefilters? I know mine turn a nasty brown slimy color in a month or so. But my RO membranes only seem to last a year or so as well. I was thinking that could be more of a pressure situation instead. Also my lack of doing a membrane flush more than once a month.

[dendronepthya]

I'll be sending the a sample of my well water to a lab to get it checked. I was on the phone with Spectrapure, and they recommended I get the water tested before they sold me anything. Depending on what's in the water, a prefilter before the RO may be necessary because dissolved organics can foul the membrane.

Are you using a pumped RO system? Those larger membranes are supposed to last several years.

[npaden]

I do need to put a booster pump on and I'm sure that would extend the life and efficiency of my membrane. And I'm sure running the flush kit every few days would help also.

I am running 5,000+ gallons of RO per year so that probably also cuts down on the life but I'm sure you are going to be using much more than that.

[jtkld75]

you guys have seen my water problems,, do you think this unit would help out at all or are the extra couple filters a bunch of smoke and mirrors?
http://airwaterice.com/Neptune.htm
thanks,i was also looking into the typhoon...Where doyou send your water to to have it sampled?

[dendronepthya]

jtkld75,
If you DI your water, the last thing you should see is a high TDS reading. The only thing I can think of is the resin is spent and no longer binding charged ions. If that is the case, recharging or replacing the resin should fix your problems.

How old is your filtration system anyhow? It sounds like both the RO membranes and DI resin are done.

[jtkld75]

its only 5 months old and only had 30g of water run thru it, prior to myself.. it worked fine when i got it:)?

[jtkld75]

ive gotton the tds down to 35ppm,,, is this even somewhat acceptable?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

TDS is not a target, it is just an indication of whether you have purified the water or not. It might be OK,and it might not, depending on what was in the water to start with.

It suggests that the DI just isn't working, however.

[jtkld75]

also,, i was curious ... it took me4 minutes to make a cup of rodi water, whereas, it only took ahhhh,30sec. to fill up the waste cup... how long should it take to fill up a cup? under normal circumstances, on a110gpd sys? thanks

[sjvl51]

From what I have read, depending upon your temperature of the water and pressure (psi) of your system, you will have from 3:1 to 5:1 waste/good water ratios.

Vickie

[rcmike]

Well water can vary greatly in quality. Sometimes it depends on how the well was drilled also. It is true that some city water comes from wells. In some places it all does, other places use little or none. Personally I would much rather drink water out of a properly produced well than a nasty lake, but I may be a little biased.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Personally I would much rather drink water out of a properly produced well than a nasty lake, but I may be a little biased.......

Occupation: Well Drilling

:lol:

I don't disagree, and I've never dug a well. :D

[coralfarm'n]

dont go by tds

I had mine tested by the nc state lab

inorganic chemical analysis in mg/l

alk as CaCo3 0
arsenic <0.001
calcium 6.6
chloride 22
copper 0.05
fluoride <0.20
iron 0.25
hardness as CaCo3(Ca,Mg) 37
magnesium 4.9
manganese<0.03
lead 0.007
ph 4.5
zinc 0.06
nitrite as N <0.10
nitrate as N 8.83

not sure why they did not do a phosphate test but it dont matter I have used it so long I know it has to be pretty low

this test was done in 2001

this is not the very best water & it would depend on the tanks filtration or if macros & mangroves are used as I do but it has worked very "well" for me with these readings

also they may vary yearly(tds)

[coralfarm'n]

randy
is it possible as I have read before ( in your opinion )
that the few heavy metals in my readings could be bound by sediments etc?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Once added to the aquarium, they may get bound up, yes. That amount of copper is about 4-5x what is in my aquarium in its steady state.

[coralfarm'n]

also are'nt heavy metals also removed by heavy skimming?
copper readings are undetectable in my system with regular test kits
Ive never used carbon but i guess that could help also?

I have stags that look like they wear fur coats with their polyp expansion

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Copper should be undetectable in any reef with a kit. You need special methods to detect the low levels that are typically present. Some metals may be removed by skimming.

I discuss metal export mechanisms in this article:

Reef Aquaria with Low Soluble Metals
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-04/rhf/feature/index.htm