Read this book!

[Thunnus]

If anyone is looking for a good chem book relevent to our hobby I would highly recomend CHEMISTRY OF THE SEA by Michael Pilson. Dr. Holmes-Farley and Boomer recommended this to me a while back and it was well worth my investment.

I think that some basic college chem is necessary for complete understanding, so break out the old texts!

I paid about 50 for it but it was worth it. I found the book very relevant to the hobby. Obviously there is nothing about additives or aquariums, but the chemical processes are basically the same.

Jason:)

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

:thumbsup:

I'm glad that you found it interesting!

I also like "Chemical Oceanography" by Millero. :)

[Boomer]

:thumbsup:

Yes Jason it is a nice book, glad you liked it so much. I also have Millero but mine is an old edition

so break out the old texts!

No need for that Jason, get this :D

Seawater: Its composition, Properties and Behavior, by Open University. Buy an old use copy paperback. The hardcover or a new one in pp, is way over priced. This is the one I recommend to hobbyist's. It is self teaching and one of the best books I have seen. I would be lost without it. ;)


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/offer-listing/0080363679//102-3055384-5269724?condition=all

[Thunnus]

Wow, for once in this hobby something that didnt cost me an arm and a leg. $5.90 is my kind of price! Thanks Boomer. I will let yall know what I think of it in a few weeks.

[Boomer]

:thumbsup:

[jfinch]

Regarding Millero's book... I bought a used copy through amazon.com for $8 (plus $4 for shipping). So be sure to check there.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Wow, that's a good deal. That's the 1996 version (second edition) that they normally have new for $119?

[jfinch]

No, the '92 edition (and paperback). The listing said it was used, but it came looking brand new. Even though it's the older edition... how could I pass on that price?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

:thumbsup:

[jfinch]

Before this thread dies, I would really like to know what books you everyone else has and likes. Or has this been covered in a thread somewhere else? These are the book's I would like to get (any comments?):

Pilson's Introduction to Chemistry of the Sea
Pankow's Aquatic Chemistry Concepts
Spotte's Captive Seawater Fishes (ouch that one is expensive even used!)

What else should be on that list? A search on Amazon for "chemical oceanography" generates a fairly long list...

Are there other books not specifically related to chemistry that you find yourself reading often?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have Pankow's book. It is perfect if you like mathematical treatments of water chemistry issues. It is nearly all directed to freshwater, but if combined with seawater parameters from Millero, it can be used to calcualte all kinds of stuff (which I used in many of my articles), like buffering capacity, solubiliuty of CaCO3 (e.g., Aragamight), etc.

Spottes book is also very good. Not mathematical, and nothing about corals, but quite a bit about aquarium issues.

I don't have any others that I read regularly, although I have a good one at home on organics in seawater (forget the title right now).

[Thunnus]

Is Tullock's WATER CHEMISTRY FOR THE MARINE AQUARIUM reading?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I haven't read it. Anyone else?

[Thunnus]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0764120387/qid=1089866180/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-5808936-3175916?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 (http://)

It is available for 6.95 at amazon. It looks pretty basic, but I am going to check it out

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

No go on the link. :(

[jfinch]

Try this: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0764120387/qid=1089866180/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-8767098-7531211?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Looking at the table of contents I'd say it isn't too in depth but might be a good primer for many. Books like that always leave me with more questions then answers though.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks. Did you see the Table of Contents on line?

[jfinch]

Yes, try this link or click on the "search inside this book" link just under the book's picture.TOC (http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0764120387/ref=sib_rdr_toc/002-8767098-7531211?%5Fencoding=UTF8&p=S004#reader-link)

You can read an excerpt and see the index at the back of the book too.

[Boomer]

I would really like to know what books you everyone else has and likes

Hmmm, not a smart thing to do with me lurking here Jon, even Randy knows that :lol:

My list

All those you posted and Randy mentioned +

Carbonate Sedimentology, by Tucker and Wright (1990). I LOVE this book :D

Marine Chemistry by Horne. The book that started it all. Nice book for way back then in 1969

Chemical Oceanography, Vol, I & II by Riley and Skirrow, editors. The old master classic set volumes

Introduction to Marine Chemistry by Riley and Chester (1971). The old std college text book for 3 decades, now replaced by Millero and Pilson. Where I learned how to do Buch-Davies Equations the easy way and on my own

An Introduction to Marine Biogeochemistry by Libes (1992). One of Millero's grad students. Best general overview and intro book on the subject

Water Chemistry, by Benjamin. The news book on water chemistry. More to Randy's liking I would think.

Water Chemistry by Snoeyink and Jenkins (1980). The old standby, my favorite general book. Also has things on ozone treatment, chloramines, hard water deposits. I would be lost with out this book.

Principles of Aquatic Chemistry by Morel (1983) . I do not like this book. Hmm, how did I forget to put this in Randy's care package :(

The Geochemistry of Natural Waters: Surface and Ground Water Environments, by Drever (1997). I really like this book, the best in its field

Carbon Dioxide Equilbria and Their Applications, by Butler (1991. A 250 page master piece. Seawater and FW. Where I first learned about ion pairs in seawater (has a section on it) and has a table on seawater ion pairs in %. Don't know how many times I have copied fig 5.1 on seawater and handed it out to people. It shows the alk components and many of the ion pairs, important cations on a pC-pH diagram. The graph is an illustrates the acid-base behavior of seawater. i.e., Na, Cl-, Mg, Ca, Si, K, OH's, CO3, HCO3, Borates, Sulfates, CO2. Hmmm, no phosphate, just noticed that.

And last but not least, 2 books by GOD, they have others

Werner Stumm & James J. Morgan

Aquatic Chemistry: An Introduction Emphasizing Chemical Equilbria in Natural Waters.

I do not believe Randy does not have this book. When I first got this book I tuned it upside down, as I thought the print was backwards. Nope, then on one page I say the words "with" and "for" and new it was right-side up. This is a deep-sixer

Chemistry of the Solid-Water Interface: Processes at the Mineral-Water and Particle Water Interface in Natural Systems. Another one for Randy, lots on surface chem

I have a few more :D

[Thunnus]

I just got SEAWATER: ITS COMPOSITION, PROPERTIES AND BEHAVIOR in the mail today. I have only looked at it far about a half an hour so far but it looks excellent. Aside from the useful chemistry stuff, it has some great stuff for science geeks like me such as currents, hydrological cycle, temp distribution, etc. This book is well worth the 5 dollars that I paid for it. I bought it used but it is in excellent condition.

[Boomer]

Jason

Well, if that is the case, I should of mentioned this is a vol. series book with others in the field, all formatted the same, price and page size.

Look on te back cover, their shoiuld be a list, there are 6 vol. to this series, the other 5 are listed.


Jon

I forgot one important one.

Seawater Aqauariums: The Captive Enviroment by Spotte. When it come to aquariums and chemsitry I drag this out more than any. I am now on my secondy copy:eek2:

[Ocean Image]

This is a great thread. I just recieved SEAWATER: ITS COMPOSITION, PROPERTIES AND BEHAVIOR in the mail today also. And again...$5...excellent condition. Thanks for all the information everyone.


If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up...:lol: :lol: Boom!

[Thunnus]

No-go on Tullock unless you are new to chem and reefs. Very basic.

[tatuvaaj]

One more: "Biogeochemistry of Marine Dissolved Organic Matter", Hansell and Carlson (Edited), 2002

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0123238412/qid=1090041598/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-0340928-1664712?v=glance&s=books

[Boomer]

Tatu

We need this one for Randy and Habib

Methods of Seawater Analysis
by Klaus Grasshoff (Editor), Klaus Kremling (Editor), Manfred Ehrhardt (Editor)

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/3527295895/qid=1090056276/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_5/102-0136366-0675334?v=glance&s=books

[wds21921]

Just ordered my copy off amazon.com for $5.85 should be here sometime next week :), total with shipping was under $10, I've paid more for batfish.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Which book did you order?

[wds21921]

Seawater: Its Composition, Properties, and Behaviour (Oceanography Textbooks)

[tonylamas]

Originally posted by Thunnus
Is Tullock's WATER CHEMISTRY FOR THE MARINE AQUARIUM reading?

I'd give this one a pass. It's basically just an overview of water chemistry that one will find in almost any other basic aquarium primer. Granted, I have a chemistry background, but it only took me about 5 minutes to realize it was next to worthless. One of my students loaned it to me.

Randy: Are you aware of any good marine natural products books, specifically their biochemistry and synthesis? Sci-finder doesn't list much...especially anything approaching comprehensive. Surprisingly few review articles too....Might be an interesting project to put one of my students on....

[Boomer]

Tony

Baker, J. T. and Murphy, V., Handbook of Marine Science Compounds from Marine Organisms, Vol 1 & 2 CRC Press

Or

Kennish, M. J., Practicle Handbook fo Marine Science, CRC Press, pages 419-689, Section 9 ( a combined review of the 2 vols above) gives a list of 901 compounds, their formula chemical, structure, organism and compound number with ref. The ref section of Sec. 9 has 283 ref and many show some articles on synthesis.

also

Bioactive Compounds from Natural Sources: Isolation, Characterization and Biological Properties
by Corrado Tringali


Synthesis of Marine Natural Products 2 Nonterpenoids (Bioorganic Marine Chemistry, Vol. 1-6)

Chemistry of Marine Natural Products
by Paul J Scheuer

A Secret World: Natural products of marine life
by Francesco Pietra

Marine Natural Products: Chemical and Biological Perspectives
by Scheuer

Ecological Roles of Marine Natural Products (Explorations in Chemical Ecology)


Natural Products Isolation (Methods in Biotechnology , Vol 1- 4)
by Richard J.P. Cannell, R.J.P. Cannell

This is just a few go here for a even bigger list

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/102-2282936-0864143

[tonylamas]

Thanks boomer. Looks like Kennish's book section would be a good start.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don't have any to add to those.

[Boomer]

Looks like Kennish's book section would be a good start

Yes, and the there is all that other data in their :D

Table of contents

http://www.vista.gov.vn/ptnt/mls/Mucluc/2003/Lt/Lt2395.htm

Be careful, this is the third editon and is quite different than mine, which is a 1st ed. I do not see a section on Compounds of Marine Organisms in this new edition. Mine has 270 pages of tables on these compounds

Go here for first edition cheap and used

http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?tn=Practical+Handbook+of+Marine+Science&ph=2&imageField.y=4&imageField.x=33&cm_re=A*Search+Box*Form&sts=t

Don't even think of the second edition it is much smaller than the first or third. Get both :D

[jfinch]

Originally posted by tonylamas, re: Tullock's WATER CHEMISTRY FOR THE MARINE AQUARIUM
I'd give this one a pass. It's basically just an overview of water chemistry that one will find in almost any other basic aquarium primer. Granted, I have a chemistry background, but it only took me about 5 minutes to realize it was next to worthless. One of my students loaned it to me.

I agree and kinda disagree :). It's much more chemically indepth then any of my other "hobbyist" books. It's 100 pages dedicated to water chemistry. BUT... he completely screws up the density/specific gravity relationship. Big bomb there!

I've got two pet peeves (they're actually related to each other) that I judge reefing books by, the specific gravity/density relationship and recommended tank salinity. I hate it if an author suggests keeping tank SG at 1.023 and doesn't justify it. If you're going to suggest something different then NSW you should at least give reasons why. Tullock does fine with his salinity suggestion, 35 ppt, but then goes on to butcher the SG/density measurements :( But a quick scan through the other 90 pages looks good to me. Other's probably don't have the same peeves that I do :lol:

[Boomer]

but then goes on to butcher the SG/density measurements

What you mean Jon, they all do that in books and articles except Randy :lol: Tullock does the same in his reef book. He gives density and then some how magically ends up calling it SG. A Density, such as that the he gives, of 1.023 is correct for 35 ppt at 77F. On a 59 F (15 C) hydrometer that would be about 1.024 SG. Bad thing is, there is no mention of what temp the hydrometer is calibrated to, but it appears as most do in books and articles to be 15 C, or lets say the tables show that. But those tables or density tables and not SG :lol: In his book is says 35 ppt, then gives an SG of 1.024 ( but that number is really Density) and a temp of 75, which he says is 35 ppt but is really 34.2 ppt , if we actually went by SG

Check your e-mail :D

[jfinch]

they all do that in books and articles except Randy

Yes. Randy's on-line articles are very good, imo. Thought out, concise and fully referenced so I can do a little further reading if I want. Also he's a chemist that keeps his own reef tank. Many of the hobbyist authors are missing (at least) the chemical background and simply repeat the mistakes of predecessors.

Thanks Randy (and don't write a book... I like getting your knowledge free :D )

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I like getting your knowledge free

:lol:

I'll keep that in mind. :)

[Paul B]

Hey Randy, I have "Water Chemistry for advanced aquarists" by Guido Huckstedt 1963, ever hear of that one?
(he didn't know about asphalt)
Paul

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

No, I haven't. It's probably been out of print for 40 years. Did they have salt water aquariums back then? :lol:

[Paul B]

I know I did, didn't everyone?
Paul

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think I went to the beach that year, but that's as close as I came to keeping salt water creatures in 1963. :lol:

[wds21921]

I was born in '63' so I can't help there lol. I do remember a really cool local public aquarium though called Aquarama that used to be in Philly before they tore it down to build Vets Stadium which they consequently tore down last year. Progress?
I visited it first back in '68' or '69' and it was already kind of old then.