Hagen phosphate test instructions?

[sbpoll]

Arrgh! I went out this afternoon and bought a phosphate test -- trying to get a handle on our hair algae. I was looking forward to running multiple tests tonight (the tank, the source water, freshly mixed salt) and spending a little time being a complete geek. Opened the box and there are no instructions! Of course it's too late to go back and get the instructions now, so I'm trying to find them online (with the color chart too). No luck so far, but they've got to be out there somewhere. Has anyone ever seen this info online?
-Suzy

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do not have that kit, so I can't help. Sorry.

Anyone have it to help with directions?

[Shoestring Reefer]

I think mine is a Hagen. I'll check tonight, but I probably won't be able to help much with color. Is there no chart on the box?

BTW: If it's clear, no phosphate.

[rick rottet]

1) fill clean test tube with 5 ml of water to be tested

2) add 3 drops of reagent #1, place cap and shake well

3) add 3 drops of reagent #2, place cap and shake well

4) add 3 drops of reagent #3, place cap and shake well

5) wait 5 minutes

6) compare to color chart; in mg/l
clear=0
VERY faint sky blue=0.25
faint powdery steel blue=0.5
steel blue=1
dark solid steel blue=2.5
almost navy blue=5

hard to describe but hope that helps.

This is a citric acid test and will only detect inorganic phosphate.
The majority of what is found in aquariums is organic, i.e. fish poop, foods, etc. Test kit for organic phosphates is about $120 from Hatch.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

:thumbsup:

Now let's hope Suzy has a good imagination of how "dark solid steel blue" is different from "almost navy blue". :D

[rick rottet]

LMAO
dark solid steel blue has a slight silverish quality to it. almost navy blue has no such metallic overtone -smile-
maybe that will help clarify- best I can do when laughing so hard

[Shoestring Reefer]

I thought Hagen and Nutrafin were the same. In my Nutrafin test, the reagent #3 is in a glass bottle with a screw on cap and has a small hole in the plastic top, while reagents #1 and #2 are in plastic dropper bottles. It has the Hagens logo on the bottom. The front of the box has the text "ART.# A-7840" near the bottom. If this sounds like yours, read on. If not, nevermind.

My NUTRAFIN test instructions are the same as what rick posted, except only one drop of reagent #3 is used. The "almost navy blue=5" color is similar to the dark blue in the "Hagen" logo on the bottom of the Nutrafin Box. The "dark solid steel blue=2.5" color is similar to the light blue in the "Hagen" logo on the bottom of the Nutrafin Box. The "VERY faint sky blue=0.25" color is similar to the very light blue in the center of the water drop picture on the top of the box (just below the angelfish's gill).

[Shoestring Reefer]

And, my reagent bottles have these numbers:
Reagent 1: A-7841
Reagent 2: A-7842
Reagent 3: A-7843

[rick rottet]

Suzy may want to try it your way if she has the same kit you are describing. Mine is about 2 1/2 years old (I actually just still have the box and instruction booklet). It only has the Hagen name on it and all three reagent bottles are plastic. My Hagen box also has the same ART.#-7840 and the same numbers as yours on the bottles. It has no color referrence chart on the box, only in the instruction booklet.

[juststartingout]

Why do we use this test (inorganic), when we should be testing for organic phosphate? Just a quick question, sorry for sidestepping the thread.

[Rikko]

For clarity:
Hagen = Nutrafin = Fluval = Aquaclear = Laguna = Exo-Terra = Elite = Marina = ...

If the product code is A-xxxx it's Hagen aquarium supply.
PT-xxxx is reptile or pond supply.
PP-xxxx is plastic plant
B-xxxx is bird supply
H-xxxx is hamster/small animal supply
D-xxxx is dog supply
C-xxxx is cat supply
and let's not forget S-xxxx is store use only. :)

Hagen is shuffling a ton of their product around in the aquatic division to make it a little more logical. The low end stuff is all going into "Elite", the middle end into "Marina" and the high end into "Fluval" - new packaging is already on the way out.

Suzy, I don't mean to sound like an ***, but you checked inside the front face of the box, right? The booklet that's supposed to come with the kits is in a little sleeve between the front of the box and the inside and slides out. I've seen a few kits where it has been omitted.


Forget about the colour chart - in a few months it'll warp and discolour and you won't know what it's supposed to look like anyways. Unless you're deliberately keeping phosphates up, if it's not clear or faintly blue, it's too high - that's my rule of thumb anyways.
I'd scan my colour chart for you, but well... It's a couple years old. :)


BTW - your reagent #3 is in a glass bottle, right? If it's not, return the kit - it's defective. Not too long after they released the kit they realized that reagent 3 was reacting with the plastic bottles and making the test unusable. Very rarely the old ones still float around.

[sbpoll]

Wow! Thanks for all the help! I went back to the store today and got the instructions. To answer all the suggestions, yes I looked in the sleeve at the front of the box. They weren't there. I've got them now, so no problem. My reagent 3 is in the glass bottle, and the instructions for this one say 1 drop of reagent 3. I ran the test, and it looks like my topoff water is at zero, but my freshly mixed salt is at .25 (very faint sky blue for those of you using your imaginations :)). I'm going to run the tests again tomorrow because that automatic dropper on reagent 3 was giving me hard time. Thanks again, everyone.

[sparkey65]

what salt mix are you using?

[Rikko]

1 drop? This has come up before.. They typically call for 3 drops. We had a discussion on alt.aquaria and a guy and his friend both had the "same" test - but once called for 3 drops and the other wanted 1.
He tried 1 drop on his test and it showed bright blue. 3 drops and it showed NOTHING. Which to me is rather odd but I'm not a chem guy, so who knows.

[rick rottet]

juststartingout--It is my understanding (however limited that may be) that 1) some water companies use phosphate based products to inhibit rust in their pipes, 2) some people are in highly agricultural areas and water supplies may be infiltrated by field water runoff which may have crop fertilizers, 3) poor quality salt, and 4)some companies use some sort of phosphoric acid to wash carbon. These all have the potential to bring phosphates into our aquariums. There are also some binding processes which I do not understand. Lastly, (and no offense intended here) but many of us go to our LFS with an algae outbreak and a worker says, "buy this kit and test for phosphates".

[sbpoll]

Using Red Sea salt mix.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Why do we use this test (inorganic), when we should be testing for organic phosphate? Just a quick question, sorry for sidestepping the thread.

Why do you believe that organic phospahte is more important?

Organic phosphate is much harder to test for, IMO, and testing for inorganic phospahte alone is an important indicator of certain problems, IMO.

Here's an article that discusses the different forms, testing methods, how to reduce phosphate, etc:

Phosphate Issues
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2002/chem.htm

[juststartingout]

Originally posted by rick rottet
1This is a citric acid test and will only detect inorganic phosphate.
The majority of what is found in aquariums is organic, i.e. fish poop, foods, etc. Test kit for organic phosphates is about $120 from Hatch.

While being non-educated in chemistry, that made sense to me. I seem to be in small battles with cyano and hair algea, and adding macroalgea that won't seem to grow while using my inorganic phosphate kit and coming up with 0 nitrates/phosphates. There clearly are nutrients in the water column that we can't/don't test for.:confused:

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley


Why do you believe that organic phospahte is more important?

Organic phosphate is much harder to test for, IMO, and testing for inorganic phospahte alone is an important indicator of certain problems, IMO.

Here's an article that discusses the different forms, testing methods, how to reduce phosphate, etc:

Phosphate Issues
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2002/chem.htm [/B]

Thanks Randy! I will definetly read the article. I always enjoy reading/learning about the things that go on with our water chemistry.:thumbsup:

[Shoestring Reefer]

Originally posted by Rikko
1 drop? This has come up before.. They typically call for 3 drops. We had a discussion on alt.aquaria and a guy and his friend both had the "same" test - but once called for 3 drops and the other wanted 1. Maby they got the reagent in a stronger concentration. Maby they refined their test procedure because they felt that one drop was more accurate. Maby the new glass container dispenses bigger drops than the plastic dropper bottles.

I sent Hagen an email about it. I guess I might hear back in 3-5 business days.

Some interesting info in Hagen's Test Kit FAQs (http://www.hagen.com/usa/aquatic/faq_questions.cfm?CAT=1&SUBCAT=124), which might spark a few questions.

[Rikko]

That's definitiely possible. When I asked a Hagen rep about the stupid bottle sizes (ie. nitrite #1 and #2 both need 5 drops, but #2 is a smaller bottle) he said that it had to do with chemical densities that were permitted to be shipped via ground transport or somesuch.
Why the guy I mentioned before (In Oz I believe) was able to find both at nearby stores rather puzzles me.

[Shoestring Reefer]

Rikko-
The Test kit FAQ on Hagen's site sait that fluids with different densities have different sized drops, so the bottles are different sizes.

[Shoestring Reefer]

I sent an email to Hagen's Customer Service Dept. and just got my answer.

First, My Question:
The new Phosphate tests specify 1 drop of reagent #3, while older tests specify 1 drop of #3. Why did the dosage change. This question comes up frequently on discussion boards.

And the reply:
Dear Michael,
You will find the answer to your question in the FAQ at the following link:

http://www.hagen.com/usa/aquatic/faq_questions.cfm?CAT=1&SUBCAT=124

It is the third question down. Please reply if you have any further questions.

Thank you,
Sharon Emond, Customer Service Dept.
Rolf C. Hagen (USA) Corp.

So, basically, they reduced the number of drops because when the test gets old, 3 drops of Reagent #3 will make the test yellow (especially with zero phosphate) and the test works fine with only one drop.

It makes me wonder what is up with the test that Rikko was talking about. Any thoughts?