Ball's Pickling Lime?

[wharfrat48]

Can I use this for kalkwater top-off? It says 100% natural, hydrated lime. 1-2 tsp per gallon right?

Thanks

Rich

[Hobster]

I hope so:D I use 1/2 gal a day, mixed at 2 tsp per gal.

[JoeMack]

Thats what I use also

[MDboyz]

Same here. It's cheap source of Kalk.

[aquaman67]

Me three or four...

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, you can use food grade pickling lime. :)

[tonyh67]

How are you adding, by dripping in to the topoff water, or mixing the pickling lime with your topoff water?

I am evaporating 6-7 cups of water per day. My tank is a 29g with 5g HOB fuge, Ca around 350, PH varies 7.8-8.2 depending on time of day and Alk is 7 dKH.

Other than the TBS Package, I have a 3-4" rock of green star polyps and a 3-4" w/mushrooms and yellow colony polyps.

Should I start adding a Ca and Alk supplement and what would be a good starting mix?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Lime is a solid. Folks mix it into the top off water, usually let it settle, and then dose the liquid slowly over many hours, often by dripping.

I'd start with 0.5 - 1 teaspoon per gallon of top of water.

[JoeMack]

Do not add it to pour in top off water. Your pH will sky-rocket. I highly recomend Peristaltic Pumps

http://www.animatedsoftware.com/pumpglos/peristal.htm

With drip systems you can come home to a tank crash (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=3327100&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending)

You should start adding kalk when your levels are low. Your a little bit on the low side now. Once your levels are adjusted use the kalk to keep the levels where you want. Then you dont really have to test for both, but a spot check every once in a while would be good. Start out with < 1 Teaspoon per gallon of top off water.

[JoeMack]

Randy. Whats the difference between Peristalic and Peristaltic?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I've never heard of the former. :D

Maybe a typo, maybe a brand, maybe a foreign language, maybe I don't know squat. google lists more than 1000 times as many sites for peristaltic as peristalic.

[tonyh67]

Somewhat familiar with all that.

So can I take my 5 gallon bucket, mix my RO water with lime @ .5 teaspoons per gallon in it, and place my auto topoff pump in it? I did not want to drip or use a dosing pump if at all possible.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You cannot add limewater too rapidly, or else the pH in the aquarium will rise too high. So whether you can use your pump depends on how fast it delivers water, and for how long.

[tonyh67]

The auto topoff pumps only a couple tablespoons of water at a time...and only about 6-7 cups per day.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That's likely fine, as long as it is not a nano tank. :)

You can always start with a lower dose and work your way up, watching pH as you go. :)

[jordan2871]

Can the pickling lime (Ball's) actually degrade if used after the expiration date? Each container has an expiration year on it. I have cans of 2005 and 2006.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Lime slowly reacts with carbon dioxide in the air to form calcium carbonate. So the older it is, and the more it may be exposed to air, the lower the potency is. However, it isn't aproblem to have some CaCO3 left over on the bottom of the limewater. Usually there is some there anyway.

So I wouldn't worry about expiration dates too much. :)

[tonyh67]

Nope, not a nano...about 34 gallons of water.

When you say "lower dose", do you mean the the amount of lime I mix with my topoff water, i.e. less than .5 teaspoon per gallon?

How often should I check my pH? If I am not overdosing, it should level off and remain steady?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes. Starting with less than 0.5 teaspoon is just being more conservative and careful.

Two times to measure pH are at the end of the lighting cycle, and at the end of adding a bunch of limewater.

[wharfrat48]

I have a auto top-off that adds about a cup or less of water to my sump at a time (75g + 30g tank and sump). Alk is 3.5-4 and Ca about 425 (pH around 8.0-8.1) I have been adding Kent's 2-part a few times a week to keep Alk and Ca relativly constant. Should I be topping off with lime water instead of just RO/DI? Should I finish the 2-part up and then start using limewater? Bio load is very low right now, but I'm planning on ramping up slowly (as finances allow).

Thanks

Rich

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

There is no aquarium advantage to limewater over the two part, IMO. Both are fine ways to go, although the limewater is less expensive.

How big is the sump that that cup is added to, and how fast does it turn over with the remainder of the tank??

[wharfrat48]

The sump is divided into sections, the top-off section is around 17g. The return from the sump is around 700 gph. What do you think? I'll probably just use the 2-part until it's used up and then switch to the limewater---unless you think my sump/top-off situation would be a problem.

Rich

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That will probably be suitable for limewater addition. :)

[richdragon32]

Dumb question, I went to a local supermarket and they don't know what pickling lime is. Which aisle do you find it in?

Thanks,

Richard

[richdragon32]

Double post

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It is in the canning products area. I've never seen it there myself.

[jfinch]

It is certainly hit and miss finding pickling lime in the grocery store. But this time of year (the next three or four months) is the best time to find it. It'll be in the bottling/canning section as Randy mentions. I've never found it in any of the large chain grocery stores (Kroger, Albertsons, Walmart, ect), but check the smaller regional chains or mom and pop type grocery stores. Don't ask the clerk for pickling lime (nobody knows what it is) just ask where they keep the Mason Jars, if the store has it, it'll be right there close by.

[witche42]

Also some of the feed and seed stores carry it year round.

[richdragon32]

Went to one supermarket, they had a lot of mason jars and a lot of Balls brand product but no pickling lime. On to 2nd store Wal-Mart later on this evening. What feed and seed stores are you refering to?

Richard

[JoeMack]

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/mrswages/mrswagpiclim.html

http://www.americanspice.com/catalog/search.html?SEARCH=21&WORDS=pickling%2Blime&x=1090358981&_ssess_=SEARCH_ENGINE

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=pickling%20lime&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wf

Its way easyer to get it online then hunt around town. This stuff will work also.

[witche42]

I went to Community Seed and Feed. It was only $4 for a 5 lb bag. He said you can also get a 50 lb bag for about $12. It's called Hydrated Lime. it might be listed as farm supplies or livestock suppliers.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What feed and seed stores are you refering to?

They probably don't have many "feed and seed" stores in the San Fernando Valley. :D

FWIW, I used to live in Granada Hills.

[richdragon32]

:lol: I live in Granada Hills. Love this town. I know some livestock stores around here, but I'm going to give Wal-Mart a shot first. I mean I just don't want to spend $10 on Kalkwasser just because Kent's Marine put its name on the bottle.

[jfinch]

I would use the agricultural grade (if the stuff from "FarmMart" is ag grade) with a little caution. It might be ok, but a food grade lime gives me piece of mind.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I agree that food grade lime is the way to go.

I live in Granada Hills. Love this town.

When I was a kid we lived on Woodley Ave, and I went to El Oro Way elementary school and Robert Frost Junior High.

[richdragon32]

Tried going to Wal-mart can't find the stuff. I think I'll just order online.

I went to Castlebay Lane Elementary school in Northridge and Robert Frost too. Highschool I went to Granada Hills High. I live on Rinaldi.

Richard

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Cool.

Happy Reefing. :)

[staticfishmonger]

is there in any difference in quality of food grade lime, such as between brands (balls vs. mrs. wages) and is there a big differnece in quality vs. an aquarium designed product like kent's marine Kalkwasser.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

There likely are differences between manufacturers, but I've never seen any analysis except from Mississippi Lime Company, and I do not know what grocery store brands they serve (if any). I've never seen any analysis of an aquarium brand.

[reef]

Randy is the master of all chemical equations but let me support the comment before. Use kalk to maintain, not to raise levels. PH will sky rocket and bleach your sps colonies. I am just working through a recovery of such an event. Even if very low in CA and Alk move to perfect levels over a month or more.

[DonJasper]

My two cents. Ball's not longer markets 'pickling lime' instead 'pickling salt', so in my local area it's gone from easy to find to 'not yet found'. So we're having to switch to Mrs Wages via online sources.

Despite Randy's caution I recently purchased a 50 lb bag of "technical grade" calcium hydroxide. Anyone want to buy 49 lb 10 oz of "technical grade" calcium hydroxide. As an extra insentive I'll throw in some coral skeletons for free. Who knows? Maybe I screwed up some other way, and the calcium hydroxide is fine!!

[thackray]

FWIW

We just bought Ball’s Pickling Lime at Walmart. Ask for “food canning supplies section� or “where are the canning jars?�. From an otherwise extensive display we got the last two 16oz containers.

Don-

On the shelves there was pickling lime and pickling salt. I don’t know if they are the same.

Phil Thackray

[jfinch]

On the shelves there was pickling lime and pickling salt. I don’t know if they are the same.

Nope they're not the same. Pickling salt is just table salt (NaCl) without any iodine or anticaking additives.

I haven't had much difficulty finding Balls pickling lime in my area.

[longra]

I ordered my pickling lime over the internet. Was cheap and the S&H wasn't very much. Better than spending about 2 bucks per gallon of gas driving around looking for the stuff.

Also, will adding vinegar to the topoff mixture help moderate the ph fluctuations? Thanks,

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, adding vinegar can reduce the maximum pH, but I wouldn't decide to use it unless you determine that you need it. It is not without potential drawbacks (sometimes including excessive bacterial growth).

[gitsumpottery]

What is too much kalk being added at one time?... i have been adding two part additives for a little while now, and I want to switch to using kalk with my auto top off....

40 gallon with approximately 10-15 gallons in sump... My auto top off replaces approximately 1 gallon a day. Each time it turns on, only a matter of a couple of ounces (just a guess but it isn't much) are delivered to the pump area of my sump. I would say it turns on about every 20-30 minutes. My main worry is that I have too small a system to be maintaining ca and alk with kalk this way...

Sorry, I bet you've had to answer this question a million times.

thanks,
zac

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

A couple of ounces to that size sump is likely OK. 1% of the sump volume is too much, IMO. A half a percent is likely OK.

[Soujirou]

I picked up some Ball's 100% Natural Pickle Crisp and was wondering if this was the same as pickling lime? Ingredients: Calcium Chloride.

[Soujirou]

NM, I just searched for "Pickling Crisp" in the forums and found that this has already been answered. ^^; Looks like I'll be canning some pickles sometime in the future. :)

[NBD]

Buy it online (http://store.yahoo.com/mrswages/mrswagpiclim.html), the shipping is dirt cheap and they throw in a free southern cookbook .. look what I got for you honey!

Since it is absolutely impossible to find locally, I bought like 120 - 1 lb. jars, the shipping was less than $10 .. trust me, between the cookbook (which my wife loved .. she collects `em) and the actual shipping weight .. they lost money on me.

Now how do I appease my UPS delivery dude who had to haul `em to the door.

The "sad" part is that 120 lbs. of Mrs Wages Pickling Lime cost me about the same as four or five containers of Kent or other related brand had I purchased from my local LFS.

So now I'm up to my ears in chrispy pickles, kalkwasser mix and I'll be popular with the local reef geeks come winter when they run out .. sure, Ive got some .. you gotta frag to trade?

Oh yeah, they ran out in July.. they just started shipping it again, and they KNOW that they sell a lot of it to reefers .. and they raised their price on it as well just because of it. I got that info direct from them when I called to find out why my first order had not been delivered. Of course that was before I ordered another batch to stash away.


Regards
Noel

[Soujirou]

Thank you very much for the link, Noel. I bought 10 16oz packages and the s/h was dirt cheap. BTW, when you open a package or packages, do you empty it all into say a rubbermaid container to keep it fresh?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I keep my Mississippi Quicklime in IO salt buckets.

[Soujirou]

I'm sorry... IO salt buckets? I'm not sure what that is exactly. I'm assuming a rubbermaid bucket will work just fine to keep it fresh?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Sorry. Instant Ocean salt sometimes comes in buckets, so that's what I use to store my quicklime (I also use them to trap opossums, but I don't want to confuse you even more :D).

Yes, any sealable palstic container is a good idea. :)

[Soujirou]

:D Thanks for the 'lil clarification. I guess I can use my first Oceanic 5 gallon bucket once I use it up. Saves from having to buy another container. =)

BTW, how exactly does kalkwasser differ from pickling lime? Are there any benefits of using kalk over the pickling lime? For the time being, my main reason for using pickling lime is to buffer my pH up and help stabilize it while not affecting my KH values dramatically.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Kalkwasser is the german word for the english term limewater. It correctly applies to the water solution that contains dissolved calcium hydroxide or calcium oxide.

Some aquarium companies have mistakenly used the word to apply to the solids, which is incorrect.

The solids they sell are calcium hydroxide, the same chemical as lime. One can also use calcium oxide (quicklime) to make limewater.

Limewater is a fine way to raise pH without pushing alkalinity too high, since it is a balanced calcium and alkalinity additive.

[Soujirou]

Will my B-Ionic Calcium and Alkalinity supplements still be useful? I guess I can supplement one or the other if either levels get too low, but do you think that the limewater would cover that while stabilizing the pH?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You can use either or both parts those along side limewater if you need to or want to. In my aquarium, limewtaer alone is sufficient, but that isn't true in all aquaria. :)

[palmisanonet]

I ordered five of the 16oz packages of Mrs. Wages Pickling Lime (http://shop.store.yahoo.com/mrswages/mrswagpiclim.html) over the weekend after not being able to locate any in stores locally.

I now have several months worth of supplements[1] for the same price as a single name brand supplement. Thanks again for these threads.

[1] Dowflake, baking soda, epsom salts, and now pickling lime.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

:thumbsup:

[Hobster]

Originally posted by palmisanonet
I ordered five of the 16oz packages of Mrs. Wages Pickling Lime (http://shop.store.yahoo.com/mrswages/mrswagpiclim.html) over the weekend after not being able to locate any in stores locally.

I now have several months worth of supplements[1] for the same price as a single name brand supplement. Thanks again for these threads.

[1] Dowflake, baking soda, epsom salts, and now pickling lime.

Palmisanonet,

Do you have Publix Supermarkets? They carry Balls Lime down here. Just a thought.:)

[palmisanonet]

Yes Ive scoured our Publix, but havent been able to find anything other than picking salt. What section are you finding it in?

[Hobster]

Our store keeps it in a small display(head on) back by the cold cuts. The have the Ball jars, kits, spices and Lime. I had to ask someone and being Publix they walked me right to it. "Where Pickling is a Pleasure":D

[palmisanonet]

Ive seen the mason jar display, but never noticed any lime. I'll double check the next time Im there.
Thanks for the detail.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ive seen the mason jar display, but never noticed any lime.

FWIW, that's been my experience every time I looked.

[Soujirou]

Originally posted by palmisanonet
Ive seen the mason jar display, but never noticed any lime. I'll double check the next time Im there.
Thanks for the detail.

Same here over in Cali. I've been to eight food stores from supermarkets to Mom 'n Pop stores and no luck. At least they weren't out of my way (having moved from Boston, I realized rather quickly that you drive <i>a lot</i> in California =). I bought ten 16oz packages of Mrs. Wages Pickling Lime myself not too long ago so it should be coming in this week.

And to Randy, thank you for clearing up my question about supplementing B-Ionic with limewater. :)

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You're welcome.

Good luck!

[juststartingout]

Hi Randy:wave:

I suspect that I have a high CO2 issue when my windows are closed for ac/heat. We have had a good summer and when the ac is on it's only for a day or two. My ph (pinpoint meter) has read 7.9, but generally stays @ 8.0-8.3 This will be our first winter with our tank so I'm trying to be pro active on my lower ph when the house is closed up. I might place an air pump outside under a cover and run the 2 hoses into the house into the sump to add fresh 02 to help the situation. I had piped my skimmer air supply to outside air, but that did not seem to impact ph when the house is closed up.

When I start adding limewater (I will probabley use the fg pickling lime), what effect should I see on alk? Currently I'm at a stable 10.2, and Ca has been steady as well @ abt 450, through the use of my diy Ca reactor. I am concerned about kalk raising the alk, will it have a marginal effect on alk, or will the alk get to high? I have not dripped/dosed kalk yet, thats why I ask (inexperience). As always, thank you very much for your time and knowlege.

[richdragon32]

Originally posted by Soujirou
I bought ten 16oz packages of Mrs. Wages Pickling Lime myself not too long ago so it should be coming in this week.


I bought a case of 12 x 16oz containers 4 days ago from the same place. It came in 2 days later... very fast shipping. I didn't realize that a 16oz container was HUGE! I have enough to last me years!


(having moved from Boston, I realized rather quickly that you drive <i>a lot</i> in California =).


Tell me about it! Gas prices ain't helping out either.

Richard

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

When I start adding limewater (I will probabley use the fg pickling lime), what effect should I see on alk?

Not too much. You can always back off on the bubble rate of the reactor a bit if the limewater is overdriving things. Both are balanced calcium and alkalinity additives, so there is not that much worry about driving alkalinity too high.

[reef]

What is the link for ordering the lime on the internet.

[richdragon32]

http://www.canningpantry.com/pickling-lime.html this one is the individual ones.

http://www.canningpantry.com/pickling-lime-case.html this one is the case price.