Iron hydroxide for PO4,safe or not ?

[jaefei]

Dear Randy,

I want to but Iron Hydroxide at Chemical store and use for lowering PO4, is it safe or not ?

thanks
Jeffry

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Putting iron oxide in the aquarium is safe, as far as I am aware, but be careful that it is not so powdery that it just clouds the aquarium.

[jaefei]

can it remove PO4 instantly ?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm not sure what you mean by instantly. It takes some time for the water to contact the solid and allow the phosphate to be absorbed. It can be fairly fast if the water contacts the media fast enough, and you are using enough of it.

[jaefei]

how about dose ?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If it is a commercial product, then I'd follow the manufacturer recommendations. Remember, you do not just add it, it needs to be contained, like carbon. Many folks use fluidized bed reactors to keep it from packing into a rock.

In general, something like 0.5 - 1 ml of solids per gallon of tank water is a fine place to start.

[jaefei]

I use no commercial product. I use from Chemical store.

[Habib]

I'm afraid that it will be much too fine to contain it in anything and for water to flow through.

Unless it is a very coarse material.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks, Habib. Thats a good point. :)

[jaefei]

So,what is the best way to remove PO4 instantly(without using commercial product)?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Good question.

I don't know of a way to remove it instantly without using a commercial product.

The best way to remove it slowly is by growing macroalgae, IMO.

This article may help:

Phosphorus: Algae’s Best Friend
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2002/chem.htm

[jaefei]

how if I use AZOO Phospate remover ? safe or not ?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don't know what it is, so I can't say.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This article also just came out:

Ferrous Oxide Phosphate Removers
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/june2004/review.htm

FWIW, ignore the title. The material is ferric oxide (or hydroxide), not ferrous oxide. :D

[jaefei]

I have been read it. Thanks.
ferric oxide = FeO ????

[jaefei]

what is the different with FeCl3 ?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ferric means iron in the +3 state. Rust. Fe2O3, Fe(OH)3, etc. It is usually organge/brown

Ferrous means iron in the +2 state. FeO, Fe(OH)2, etc. It can be a variety of colurs, including blue and colorless, but it oxidizes in air to Fe+++.

FeCl3 (ferric chloride) will dissolve in water, and if the pH is above about 0-2, it will precipitate as Fe(OH)3/Fe2O3

[jaefei]

1. So,which can I used for PO4 remover ? Fe2O3, Fe(OH)3,FeO,Fe(OH)2 ???
2. can FeCl3 remove PO4 too ?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You can use either iron oxide or hydroxide (commercial ones may be a molecular mixture of the two, when looked at very closely), but bear in mind that you need big chunks, not fine particles that will get all over the tank and turn the water orange/brown.

FeCl3 would not be suitable. It will lower pH and alkalinity way too much.

[jaefei]

If we add Iron Oxide in our tank,will it increase iron level in our tank ? and make algae bloom ???

[jaefei]

how if my iron oxide is powder ? how to use it ?

[harper]

It may be possible to use a fine iron oxide powder in a diatom type filter. For instance, a Magnum 350 or an old Vortex diatom filter. Place the intake and output in a plastic bag filled with tank water. Then while the filter is running add the powder to the bag and wait until the water clears. Then remove the bag and run tank water through it. This is easily accomplished by having the bag, input and output inside the aquarium, then you don’t need to stop the filter after it is packed. This type of filter will clog with detritus rapidly. You should be able to use it for several hours though. With fine particles the po4 decrease should be relatively instantaneous….few hours. If you wish to use iron oxide continusly, this wouldn’t be a good way to go. But it sounds like you are looking at intermittent use. This should work fine. Yu should however consider the possible negative effects this may have on alkalinity and pH. There is an active thread in the SPS forum about these possible down sides of iron oxides. I don’t think iron release will be of much concern. Good luck.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I agree that I do not think release of soluble iron will cause a problem. The method above might work, but fine iron oxide or hydroxide may be very hard to control, and if it gets out into the tank, may make quite a mess.

[jaefei]

In my city,noone sell iron oxide with big chunks.
how if I mix iron oxide with water and dissolved in the water ?
will it increase iron level inthe tank and make algae bloom ?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It will likely turn the water orange/brown with suspend particles.

[Habib]

jaefei:

If what you are trying to do with iron oxide powder was feasible then it would have been very likely available as a commercial product for aquaria. ;)

[jaefei]

how to use IRon oxide powder if I want to mix with water?

[Habib]

It might ruin your tank if the powder settles on all sort of things.

To clean it you might have to take the tank apart.

I think these all are hints and other ways of saying:

Do not use it!

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'd have to agree. It will be near impossible to control a fine powder.

[jaefei]

Okey.thanks for all reply. God Bless Randy and Habib.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You're welcome. :)

[jaefei]

how long can we use rowaphos in our filter media?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You mean before it is no longer absorbing phosphate? That depends on how much phosphate is in the water, and how fast it is flowing past the media.

[jaefei]

evenly,how long many folks use it in 55 gallon tank ?

[Habib]

Rowa seems to recommend 250 ml for an approx 80 - 160 gallon tank.

How long it will last in your situation is something no one can tell for sure.

[jaefei]

how if my Phospate level now is 3 ppm.and I never feed my coral.

[Habib]

At least approx. 350 ml.

[jaefei]

if 350ml of Rowaphos,how long it can be work ?

[Habib]

It should work untill it is exhausted. :)

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It should work untill it is exhausted

I don't usually work quite that hard. :lol:

[Habib]

Should be the new slogan over here:

Work untill you are exhausted!

BTW I went out today and bought for everyone apple pie so I guess I'm not that bad. :D

[jaefei]

I want to use SERA germany to remove phospate. Is it safe or not ? how to know it based on to Alumunium or Iron ?

[jaefei]

Dear Randy or Habib,
I use Azoo Phospate romover with yellow liquid. Is it Iron or not ?

[Habib]

I'm not familiar with the Sera and Azoo phosphate removers. Sorry.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I tried to find a picture or description of Sera, and was unable (only the outside of the bottle). If it is a red/brown solid, it is likely iron based. If it is other colors (like white or off white), then it likely is not. A yellow liquid is not the same sort of material.

[jaefei]

I asked to Azoo Sales yesterday about ingredient. and He said contain Iron and Alumunium. and he said not recomended for coral...:( :( :( hik...hik..hik. it is difficult to find Iron oxide with big chunk in here.....

[jaefei]

how if someday I get big chunk Iron Oxide,is it neccesary to be proccessed before use or not ?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The Rowaphos folks claim to process it. That might help, or not. I suspect that it may be worth rinsing out fine particles, or at least to see if any are realeased. Then I'd use it as is.

[jaefei]

thanks randy for reply...God bless

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You're welcome. :)

[saraiva]

Randy, it is possible to use Laterite instead of iron oxide for fhosphate remove ?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I wouldn't use laterite as a phosphate binder in seawater, no. It may bind some phosphate, but it may also release aluminum.