Coral dieing. I have chelated iron problem?

[Noffler]

My 12 gallon tank is now almost 7 weeks old. Over a week ago I bought a zoo that opened up pretty nicely on it's first day in the tank. But ever since then brown algea started to grow on it and it hasn't opened up at all exept for maybe one or two. I've tested the water and it seems pretty good with the exeption for a slightly high alkaline level and a really high chelated iron level. Here are my test results.

SG = 1.023
Temp = 78
PH = 8.1
Alk = 12 DKH
Iron = 0
Chelated Iron = +1.0 (the color is off the chart!)

I'm afrain of dosing iron because of the whole chelated thing. Does anyone know what might be causing this? I use Oceanic Salt and all tests on the water changes show a chelated iron of 0. I just did a 20% water change last night but still the tests are off the charts. Here is a before and after pic of my poor zoo.

[Noffler]

aftermath

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Did you add any iron products?

[Noffler]

nope. nothing unknowingly. Only thing I've been adding to the water is. Proper PH 8.2 buffer, Seachem Calcium supplement.

Water is mainly from my tap with a tap water filter. As a responce from this coral doing poorly, I've started using Glacier RO water from the grocery store.

[Noffler]

I even rince my hand and arm off whenever I go sticking it in to mess around pulling out my dead snails and hermits.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Why did you test for iron?

What kit?

[Noffler]

Tetra test kit, the LFS said that if I wanted the zoos to grow, I need to watch my iron. Thats when I bought the test kit and supplement. Kent's Iron. But I haven't been adding any iron to my water.

[Boomer]

You may have gotten a bad zoo or it could have been the acclimation process. How are the other animals ?

[beaslbob]

I am wondering why you have dead hermits and snails?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OK, I dose iron (for macroalgae), but I do not know of anyone that has tested wataer for iron (or even dosed iron) because they have zoos. I'd ignore the iron issue for the time being, and look to another answer, along the lines that Boomer sugests..

[Noffler]

I had a shrimp die this past weekend in its molting process. My two turbo snails are extremely lazy after the first hour I introduced them to the tank. Astrea snails all die in the first week of placing them in the tank. Hermits seem to be slowly dieing off too. I think I might have a copper problem, but haven't tested for that yet. I will soon. My two false perc's are doing great.

I acclimated my zoo by doing a half hour drip like with anything I place in my tank.

[JoeMack]

Maybe the aptasia stung the zoa colony?

[Noffler]

If I do have copper in the tank, I don't know how it would get there. I have formula One pellets, they don't contain copper do they?

[Noffler]

the aiptasia all died within the first 3 days of introducing the zoo to the tank. I wasn't even aware that aiptasia stings =(

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Did you use tap water to set up the tank?

[beaslbob]

Randy:

I suspect there is something going on here other than the iron. Like some toxin of some kind. Or some parameter off.

that and with the brown algae do you suspect a phosphate problem? Would plant life help this system? Like your macros for instance?

[Noffler]

to start my tank, I just used tap water with this filter.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4484&Ne=40000&R=1884&Nao=9&N=2004+22789

I just got back from the LFS. All the salesman could recomend was iodine. He says hermit's need iodine to live. I didn't buy any though. just a rio 800 and minijet606. oh and a copper test kit

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

No, forget the iodine. That's not the answer.

If you used that filter and did not overload it, then there shouldn't be a copper problem from the tap water.

[Noffler]

the first batch of snails all died right after the 3rd week. My tank just finished it's cycle. So my problem could have existed back then. I bought regular sand, not live sand, 15 pounds of fiji uncured live rock.

Threw it all in my tank and let it sit for the first week. The second week, I took a 5 gallon bucket, filled it with saltwater and threw my rocks in there. I went out to the back deck and scrubbed my live rock with a new toothbrush to get all the dirt and dead stuff off it that I could. I used a hammer and a crowbar to help break up the rock for my aquascapping. I then took the remaining live rock and crushed it up with the hammer to throw into the back of my tank for filtration. The tank then clouded up real bad and after about 3 - 4 days, all the cloudyness went away. Then I got a cup a sand from my friends tank (he calls it his QT tank but only puts hurt coral and fish there. I don't think he ever used copper in it. Thats about when I first saw my worms for the first time. no copepods or nothing. I kept it that way until my cycling finished then added my hermits and snails. I think if anything went wrong, it had to have happened in one of these steps.

[Noffler]

hmm, when I crushed the rock I did it on newspaper. If newspaper got into my tank, could that be an issue?

[Habib]

Noffler:

Can you test new made saltwater for iron?

If that result is negative there might be something in your tank which registers as iron but is not. It might be a heavy metal in a high concentration.

If it tests positive then check the purified freshwater you are using.

[Noffler]

I did that last night. no iron or Chelated Iron of any kind =(

[Noffler]

only thing metal in my tank is the magnetic glass scrubber. Or the minijet pump.

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by Noffler
hmm, when I crushed the rock I did it on newspaper. If newspaper got into my tank, could that be an issue?

depend on which issue of the paper you used.:lol:

Naaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What minijet pump? Does it have brass parts?

[Noffler]

minijet404. not sure what material the parts are made from.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4605&Ne=40000&R=8103&Nao=18&N=2004+22788

this says "Since they're completely submergible, they're ideal for small compartments like sumps or reservoirs."

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OK, that probably isn't the problem, unless it is defective.

[Noffler]

I'll be replacing it with a more powerful one tonight anyways. My tank needs more flow if the zoo's are gonna be successful.

When I went to the LFS and told them my problem, I said I quickly rince my hand and arms off before sticking them inthe tank. The salesman suggests I should get something to really scrub them. So I'm not sure if thats how these elements are getting into the water.

[Noffler]

I'm wondering if it wold be ok to do 20% water changes each day. Think that would be too much?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Can you recap for us all of the things that are symptoms of trouble.

Closed zoos.

What else?

And what else in the tank is OK?

[Noffler]

I'm using a JBJ Nano Cube. It has 4 compartments in the back (could be described as an internal sump). In the first compartment that the water flows into I have crushed liverock filling up the compartment halfway. sitting on top of the rock I have my poly filter.

Currently my second chamber is empty. A few days ago, I used it to house my protein filter. But now I've noticed alot of the bubbles are escaping from the bottom of the tube. Its one of those cheap air stone types.

The third compartment houses my heater, 75 watt jager heater.

And in the last compartment is my new minijet606 (upgraded last night from the 404). It looks like its doing a good enough job on its own so I have added the rio 800. If I add the rio, there's a control knob that I can add that will allow me to cut back on the current it produces. Also, sitting on top of the minijet is my chemi-pure bag.

Besides that, I have a 2 inch sand bed and maybe 12 pounds of liverock for my aquascaping.

Supplements -
I use Seachem calcium and alkaline. And I recently bought Kent Iron. Up til now I haven't added any iron nor alkaline because my chelated iron is so high and my alk is testing around a 12 ever since the beginning. I'm very new to saltwater tanks and I must confess, in the beginning I thought using a PH 8.2 buffer solved all my problems. Until I started testing for Alk which a few weeks ago tested at 18DHK. Currrently my calcium is at around 450.

One a side note, I tried basting my zoo, and noticed some of it's tissue coming off. I guess there's no saving it now. Also I came home to yet another dead hermit. Over the past few days I've noticed an increase in green algae growning on my walls. Don't know if there's much help there. I tested for copper too and it tested at 0. Or maybe .1, it's hard to tell with those dumb color charts. Is it green, or slightly pale green??

When driving home from work last night I was thinking about my chelated iron problem. I do have a cpu fan in the hood to help suck out the heat. It's screwed into the hood with steel screws. The fan is dry so I doubt if any evaported water collected up near the screws.

[Noffler]

I have 2 false perc's. Both are doing ok
2 turbo snails. Both don't seem to be moving ore eating much after the first hour I placed them in the tank. I did a drip for a half hour for their acclimation. Had them for a week now. They are still alive. but for how much longer?
I see 1 nass snail still patroling my sand beds. I think all the other nass snails seemed to have died.
Astrea snails all seem to die in the first week.
Both red and blue hermits slowly die off in about 2 - 3 weeks
Cleaner shrimp died in it's molting process after 4 weeks of living in the tank. Come to think of it, he ate well to in the beginning, them I noticed him chase after food, but then suddenly ignore it.
Don't see any pods come out at night.
I do see worms. 1 or 2 bristle's and a few flats.

Thats all I can recap.
Any of this help?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OK, that certainly sounds like a poison in the water to me, although it might be other things.

Right now, it might actually be ammonia that is killing things in a domino effect: things die, release ammonia, more die....

[Noffler]

Last night I went in and cleaned up all the empty shells I see scattured around as well as 2 hermit carcuses. I bought a new scrapper and scrapped off all the brown algae off my back wall. My sand is getting pretty ugly now. I have a vacuum that I'll be using. Also I'm thinking of once again scrubbing off my live rock. they are getting too much algae building up.

What should I be doing before sticking my hands in the tank and before feeding? I've heard of a guy kill all his inverts after feeding his fish. Right before feeding, he took his dog outside for a walk. That same day his wife gave the dog tick medicine. Somehow the tick medicine got into the tank. I don't own a dog or anything, but maybe its my deoderant or something. I use the spray kind. Is there some ritual you go throu before messing around with the fish?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I wouldn't obess about your hands, as long as you've washed them and didn't touch anything nasty recently (like bug killer :D). Gloves are always recommended, however, both for your benefit and your tank's.

[Habib]

in the beginning I thought using a PH 8.2 buffer solved all my problems.

What is the name of that buffer and which brand?

[Noffler]

off the top of my head its just called "Proper PH 8.2 Buffer" I can look more closely when I get home

[AquaDiva]

OK, I hopped in this thread instead of your other on in the reef discussion forum.....a couple of questions....

1. When you did your mods on the nano, what type of sealants or epoxys (if any) did you use?

2 Ever check for stray voltage? You did a lot of modifications to the lighting on that canopy. I don't know how that would effect the inverts and not the fish.

3. How did you get rid of the flatworms or do you still have them?

4. What do you do for a living? Not a mechanic or something where you would have chemicals or something under your nails :D Just wanted to put that contaminated hand thing to bed.

[Shoestring Reefer]

You said you used "regular sand". Where did you get it from, what brand? It may have been contaminated with something.

Was your tank new or used?

Maby you need a whole lot of carbon and poly-filters.

There is a chance your hermits are killing the snails, and then the hermets are molting, and wondering where their old shells have gone. Just throwing it out there to make sure. From the sounds of it, they may be dead. If they are just molting, the old exoskeleton will look just like a hermit, same coloration, but will be out of the snail shell it was living in. Hermits hide in the rocks while their new exoskeleton hardens up.

[Noffler]

the turbo snails I noticed today ate shrivaling up. They are sticking to the glass ok, but are not eating any of the algae. The hermits are dead. I found either their empty shells or bodies entirely outside the shells. Sometimes I only find a arm or 2.

I bought plain dry sand from the LFS. I'm not sure what brand it is. The salesman just scooped it out of a bin that was lying open on the floor. Everything I bought was brand new.

[Noffler]

The only material that I used was silicone which is made for aquariums. I'm not sure of the brand, but I think it said it was fish safe. These are all good questions, keep em coming =)

I'm thinking of buying a RO unit. I remember someone saying there might be a toxin in my water that can't be tested for. Does anyone have any suggestions on a unit that can fill my needs for a 12 gallon tank?

[Noffler]

Yes I made quite a few mods. I added a 32 watt light unit in addition to the 24 waatt pc light that came with the unit, I added a pc fan for ventilation, and sealled up the water intake vent and created a surface skimmer.

I used a drill to melt the plastic. It's possible that some of the plastic fell back into the water. Could any toxins be released do to the melting effect?

As for what I do, I sit in front of a computer all day long making video games :) I use spray deodarent. Thought that could be the culprit. Also I mix the new water right next to my sink. It's my personal bathroom/lab.

Oh, the flat worms, I 've started seeing less and less of them lately. I don't know if they are dieing or what. I increased the water flow right around when they started to disappear.

In the next few days, I'm gonna see if I can buy some premade RO saltwater from my LFS. If they don't sell it, I'll pay a visit to the grocery store and try some Aquafina.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Could any toxins be released do to the melting effect?

Not likely, no.

[Noffler]

I got the manufacturer on the sealant I used. It's made by Perfecto Manufacturing. And the ph buffer I have is made by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals.

On a positive note, I am noticing my brine shimp starting to make a comeback. I had tons of them back in the begining.