It's the pH thang again..

[jimfairchild]

Hi Dr. Randy,

I was asken a question bout my inverts on the Ask Dr. Ron Channel when Middleton Mark suggested if I am having a problem getting and keeping my pH above 8.0 I should ask you for suggestions. So I am begging...

First I use my home Culligan R/0 water to start.. 17 micro seemans with a ph of 6.50 with Pinpoint ph meter. I airstone this water for 24 hours to drive out all the demons. Then I add my Instant ocean to my 5 gallon bucket of R/0 water and let this airate for another 24 hours... then an hour before I add the 76.5 F. water to my 30 gallon extra high Marine tank I add a few drops of Prime and 1/2 teaspoon of Seachem's 8.3 buffer. Then add the water to the tank of course I took the old water out first... but alas.. pH 7.99 to 8.00. Now I do cheat with a charcoal filter in a bio-wheel to raise it a tad more. When my pH gets to 8.1 I know it time to calabrate my pin point again usually about 2 weeks. I do weekly water changes.

Dr. Randy if you have any suggestions or need more information please let me know... It's just hard to make the Mississippi River act the the Pacific.

Sincerely,
Jim Fairchild

This is me Doc.

"Given the range of chemistry abilities of forum readers, from zero chemistry understanding" to people :( [QUOTE]

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

How do you normally supplement calcium and alkalinity?

The easiest way to raise pH is to select a high pH alkalinity additive, like limewater (kalkwasser) or a high pH two part additive.

Assuming the alkallinity is not too low, low pH is caused by excess CO2 in the aquarium. In some cases that can be fixed with more aeration, but in many cases your home may have elevated CO2 in it, so the aeration fails, and you need to bring more fresh air to the tank.

These articles will also help:

Solutions to pH Problems
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/june2002/chem.htm

Indoor CO2 Problems
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/apr2002/short.htm

[jimfairchild]

Hi Dr. Randy,
Thank you for your reply.... we have Kallkwasser and you are right this would kick the pH up to 8.4 only to slide below 7.80 again the next day and then our Ca goes over 500.

You have given us much to research so I may take a few days before we will be back with you.... FWIW tonight our Alkalinity is 5.49 and the dKH is 15.4

I hesatate to employ an air stone because we worry about Gas Bubble Disease affecting our precious seahorses...

So I will work out the experiments in the links you supplied and get back with you... I really wish we could keep the pH at 8.3.

Thank you
Jim and Marie

P.S. Can you tell us what Co2 apparatus you use?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Can you tell us what Co2 apparatus you use?

I don't use CO2. I only use limewater.

we have Kallkwasser and you are right this would kick the pH up to 8.4 only to slide below 7.80 again the next day

Maybe you should dose it only at night.

[jimfairchild]

Hi Randy,

I forgot to add that we did dose the tank water at night. I used it as make up water... used the Kent Aquadose Delivery System.

What ever happened to the Fyrite method for testing C02? Randy because of our inexperience I think we should invest in a C02 measureing device. Any suggestions?

Back to the drawing boards... Thank you for your reply.

Jim

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The best way to test to see if CO2 is an issue is to aerate the tank water with indoor air, and also a different sample with outdoor air, and see where the pH rises. Try aerating a cup of water with an airstone for an hour and see what happens to pH.

[jimfairchild]

Will do... thank you

pH in the tank after calibration is 7.88... I added a little Seachems 8.3 to the new water. The pH has risen to 7.90.... about a 30% water change.

Dr. Randy with my Alk up to 5.49 and dKH at 15.4 do you think I should add Kallkwasser tonight?

Just in case my Mg. is 1350.

I will now do my assignment thank you..

Jim

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

With alkalinity that high, I would no longer add any buffer to the salt mix. That's probably why the alkalinity is high. If you want to raise the pH of salt mix water, limewtaer is a much better way.

What is the calcium level in the aquarium now?

[jimfairchild]

Ca right now is 400.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OK, then I'd stop adding any buffers. I'd start the limewater when the alkalinity drops to 4 meq/L. You might actually want to add a little calcium chloride if the calcium drops in the meanwhile, but let's see what actually happens.

[jimfairchild]

OK, then I'd stop adding any buffers. I'd start the limewater when the alkalinity drops to 4 meq/L.
Yes sir....
You might actually want to add a little calcium chloride if the calcium drops in the meanwhile, but let's see what actually happens
Will do..
Ok this just completed... indoor C02 test..
Indoors
Start 7.92
Finish 7.93
Outdoors...
Start 8.05
Finish. in progess.

Reason for the hi and low starts iwas a water change. bout 30%

Just heard from Dr. Ron as he is trying to save our Sarcophyton Trocheliophorara. We don't hold out much hope... but will try.

Thank you Dr. Randy,
Jim

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You're welcome.

Good luck!

[jimfairchild]

The conclusion to our C02 test is:
Indoor C02 test..
Indoors
Start 7.92
Finish 7.93
Outdoors...
Start 8.05
Finish 8.15

What does this me Dr. Randy?

[jimfairchild]

Sorry .. but what does this mean Dr. Randy?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It suggests that there is excess CO2 in your home, and that to raise the tank pH via aeration, you'll need to bring more fresh air into the house, or at least to the tank (like a hose to a skimmer inlet).

Using limewater is often the best option, however, if you cannot open some nearby windows.

[jimfairchild]

Oh my Gosh Randy,

What is "a like a hose to a skimmer inlet" I use the Aqua C with a Maxi-jet which has only one under water inlet I think?

Well we can't use the limewater aka Kallkwasser? Because our T/A is over 4.0. Funny, we have a fire place near the tank and leave the flu open year round.

We can open a near by window... Grrrrrrrr there goes my A/C bill.
But yet another bump Dr. Randy.. We must keep our Erectus Seahorses at 76.1 and right now it's 90 outside. Guess we need to float an ice pack huh?

I can't believe it's just that simple Dr. Randy .. to much C02 inhibiting the pH. I'll be darn!

Thank you Sir,
Jim and Marie Fairchild

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The skimmer must suck in air somewhere.

Use the limewater once the alkalinity drops. No need to worry about the pH before that.

[jimfairchild]

Hi Dr. Randy,

Well we are now running an air pump outdoors to the tank and in the tank with air stone. Started at 5pm CDT with a pH of 7.99. After an hour the pH meter reads 7.98. Just finished the Alk test 4.80 meq/L and KH in dKH at 13.4. Will report back tomorrow..

Thanks
Jim

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OK, good luck. :)

[jimfairchild]

Hi Dr. Randy,

Now I know why I would never been accepted at Harvard.
I ran the cotton picken air pump till Sunday late. PH steadily dropped to 7.84.. stopped the outside pump Sunday and took off for the LFS with a water sample in hand .. and worried. The owner used a Red Sea test kit for pH..... zoooom.. 8.2 moral of the story.. becareful of electronic probes.

Then we bought a lamp the Orbit 24" 2-Lamp 65 watt 24-Hour Lighting system.. 10 more pounds of Florida Rock and of course the pH test kit. Vvvvvvool-alla from a Marine tank to a Reef tank. With one swoop of a credit card...

Thank you for your time Randy...
I will do more research before I bother you again.
Sorry,
And Thank You,
Jim and Marie Fairchild

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OK, I hope the kit is correct. :D

[jimfairchild]

There you go again ......Geeeeesh!
I shall find a back up kit..

Thanks Doc,
Jim and Marie

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If you're using a pH meter, you can check its proper operation in borax from the grocery store:

20 Mule Team to the Rescue...Again
http://web.archive.org/web/20021015005420/www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/aqfm/2000/feb/bio/default.asp

[jimfairchild]

Good Morning Dr. Randy,

I'll be darned.. thank you for the borax tips Randy. I think my next step will be a sump after I buy some borax. :/

Much appreciated,
Thank you;
Jim and Marie Fairchild

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You're welcome. :)