HELP ASAP! Clownfish BUGS???

[NoobieNemo]

I swear I saw something last night on my fish...but I didn't wanna turn the lights on, now this morning I look again....freakin' 4 little rolly polly type bugs on it...*** is this???how can I get it off...please help...I need to do something ASAP....

Noob

if you need a pic...i'm already on it...please help...

[NoobieNemo]

i caught him and put him in a breeder holder thing...here is a pic

http://img50.photobucket.com/albums/v152/NoobieNemo/mini-sad.jpg

how can i get these little sons of a b's off of him???

[Fountainhead]

They look like Isopods to me. Nasty, if so. See this article for more info. (I didn't see the pic the first time. We were posting simultaneously.)

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-05/rs/index.htm

[NoobieNemo]

look at the pic!

[NoobieNemo]

i got them all off with tweezers...he already looks a lot better...what kinda medications should I use now???what the hell should I do?I read that article that dr. ron wrote...3 options...throw away live rock and sand, dont do anything, or don't put anything in there...there isn't any way to kill these guys with anything?Will my clown be okay? I have never even heard of this crap until this morning...I shoulda listened to people when they said TBS is "too alive"...pretty crappy when I get sold 500 dollars of freakin' fish murderers...

[nanocat]

Read the article. Unfortunately you have a serious issue. The only sure solution is to leave your reef fishless for months :(

In the mean time, you need to remove them with tweezer ASAP.

Sorry for your bad luck.

[NoobieNemo]

yea this sucks really freakin' bad..I already waited about 2-3 months for the damn tank to cycle...now this...this is really horrible...what do I do with my clown? I can't even set up a QT tank because I can't use the live rock or sand...I'm gonna have to go drop a couple hundred bucks for more live sand and rock...how can I get it to cycle quickly so I can put him in there???

[Fountainhead]

I don't think it's really necessary to chuck the rock and sand. It does sound like the only sure way to rid your tank is to leave it fishless of three months or more to be certain that any remaining isopods have starved.

You don't need live rock and sand for a quarantine tank, in fact, it is not recommended. Bare bottom and some PVC pipe for shelter works best.

As far as the clown, I'm sure I'll get slammed for mentioning this, but I've seen it suggested that an inexpensive fish can be used as bait for Isopods...you leave him there and just keep pulling the pods off of him until they're all gone. Seems cruel to me, but I've seen that method mentioned.

Sorry about your bad luck. I got my TBS rock pretty close to when you recieved yours, so I'm a little wigged out about you problem myself.

[Sloth]

It sucks bad, but you don't have many options.
Maybe you can have someone hold your clown for you? Maybe a LFS will do it?

Anyone know? --> Would the Interceptor red bug treatment kill these buggers?

Good luck!

[NoobieNemo]

fountain, do you have any fish in your tank yet?

[NoobieNemo]

if I got a 5 gallon mini bow with no substrate...and a piece of pvc piping in there...i wouldn't need to cycle it???would I use the HOB filter that came with the kit? I'm not familar with doing it rockless...

[Trumpet12]

You could use the HOB filter that comes with the kit, but you would still need to cycle it, unless you are going to do lots and lots of water changes. IMO, you could use the clown to cycle it if you did water changes when ammonia and nitrite levels got dangerously high.

[Fountainhead]

Please keep in mind that I'm a beginner, and take my advice with caution!

5 gallons might be a little small, especially for an extended period. I think that 10 gallons would be a better bet. I set up a 20 gallon, but I've not used it yet. It needn't be fancy or expensive...bare bottom with hang-on filter, or foam filter. Though it'd be nice to have the tank "cycled", I'd think that for a single hardy fish like a clown, you could manage the water quality with frequent water changes, but you'd really have to keep on top of that.

Yes, I have a single Ocellaris which has been in my tank for a month. (I've also lost a pair to Brooklynella.) Mine looks fine, though I'll probably be checking him night and day now for signs of Isopods.

A question for those more knowledgable...can corals or inverts be added to the tank during the fishless period? Will Isopods harm these as well, or will they only harm fish?

[Trumpet12]

Fountainhead is right. 10 or 20 gallons would be better, and it won't cost that much to setup. I'm not an expert, but I am pretty sure that you can add corals during the fishless period. I think that you can also add some inverts in most situations, but some isopod species infect inverts.

[luceneck]

That picture is crazy!!! My best suggestion is to post on the clownfish message board. I'm sure there are many experts here, but it would be better off there!

[tacocat]

How long was your fish in the tank before the isopods hit?

[NoobieNemo]

I put him in on my moms birthday, Saturday...I saw one on him last night, but I thought it was like a piece of uneaten food(it was late at night)...this morning I wake up, and he's covered in them...

can I use my 55 gallon tank water and put it into a 5 gallon mini bow...would that cycle it???

[Trumpet12]

Originally posted by NoobieNemo
can I use my 55 gallon tank water and put it into a 5 gallon mini bow...would that cycle it???

It would help, but it probably would not prevent a cycle.

[tacocat]

Run to the store and buy a single 5lb piece of live rock. That should sustain your fish in a temp tank. Use one of the powerheads form your main tank for circulation. I have kept fish in a bucket for several days doing this. Also if you are considering the baiting method, a mollie can be a suitable fish. It's mean.

[AReeferIsExpensive]

pick them off right when you see them and start antibiotics for the clown.....and then build a trap so you can start ridding your tank.
heres my story (well, the beg. of it.......)
http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28745&highlight=caught+the+little

and here a neat thread
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=2928242#post2928242

info
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-05/rs/index.htm

and a warning about your fingers.......
"In many cases, these infestations appear to be the result of a pregnant female that enters the aquarium and then drops her brood of 10 to 30 young, all of which are immediately hungry for a nice meal of fish blood. A hobbyist will see the alarming sight of one or more fish with from one to twenty blood-sucking parasites on it. Often the isopods are nocturnal, and unless the aquarist is alert, they may not notice the parasites, as the bugs drop off the fish shortly after the lights go on and find shelter in the rocks. Prolonged exposure to such densities of blood suckers WILL kill fish.

The only way to rid an aquarium of these animals is to catch them all, which although tedious, is possible. Generally, this involves using a sacrificial fish, usually something easy to catch and moderately large. A yellow tang is a good choice for this because the fish's color pattern allows easy determination of the presence of the parasite. The other fish in the tank are collected and removed to a quarantine tank, and the "bait" fish is introduced. This fish is checked periodically and, if the parasites are seen on it, it is netted and removed to a flat surface where it may be immobilized with a wet paper towel. The parasite is removed with a pair of tweezers or forceps. The fish is then returned to the tank, and the procedure repeated. Often the parasites are nocturnal; consequently, the fish will have to be examined before the lights come on. The aquarium is probably free of the parasites if none are seen on the fish for a month or so after the last one has been collected.
The bug may be disposed of. Carefully!!! I had a student who was holding a three centimeter cirolanid that we had just collected in her clenched hand. The bug cut through the flesh of her palm, dug in, and started to eat HER. Her response was rather impressive. So was the tenacity of the isopod, it was HARD to remove it.

AND i found this sentence about cirolanids too!
"Some years ago there were several large sharks that washed ashore in Florida. Examination showed that they were all killed by cirolanids that had burrowed into the shark and eaten their hearts."

[NoobieNemo]

what medication should I put on my clown?

[Talonn]

I got a 35 gal. package from TBS in February and I have never seen any of those on my fish. All I have seen is the good little pods.

At 4 months
http://ozarkweather.net/reef/1jun2004.jpg

Chris

[NoobieNemo]

well to be honest, if anything bad is going to happen to anyone...it's me...

[Talonn]

NoobieNemo,

In some ways you are more lucky then some of us newbies. At least you are getting some experiance dealing with some things that some of us yet are waiting to go through.

Myself I have battled diatoms for over a month and just now I am getting rid of them but I am starting to see some green hair algea now so I will begoing into this stage next.

My whole problem was high phosphate but being a newbie I did not realize till it was too late.

Chris

[Thnikkaman]

Wow i just found one in my mantis tank that is cycling and have never seen them before. Now that i know im wondering if the mantis wil kill it or if im just better off taking it out before something bad can happen.

[NoobieNemo]

thnk do you have TBS rock???

and i went through the brown algae, the hair, etc...but this...this is so much worse than that...you can't even compare the two...

[jeffbrig]

Originally posted by Fountainhead
See this article for more info.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-05/rs/index.htm

WOW, speechless after reading that one..... :eek2: :eek1: :eek2:

I had no idea.....you have my sympathies. Doesn't TBS have some sort of satisfaction guarantee? I think this warrants a call to Richard, especially if your tank is 100% TBS. This is a BAD hitchiker.

[NoobieNemo]

yea...I'm here for the night...going isopod huntin'!

wish me luck...er...I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing if I don't find anymore...

[Thnikkaman]

No my rock is actually fiji and the thing that really scares me now is that i pulled it out of the sump of my reef tank so now i keep inspecting my fish but havent seen any yet.

[wasp]

AReeferIsExpensive is correct. Use a bait fish. Not sure how long your tank has been up but the isopods were probably real hungry after cycling and mobbed your fish when you put it in. With luck, it could be you already got most of them. The fact the clown is not showing too much damage would seem to indicate there is not too many of them.
Because the isopods are mainly nocturnal and the clown is easy to catch at night, you could use it as the bait fish and examine during the night with a flashlight. If it seems like there is huge numbers of them you may have to do the quaranteen thing, but if just a few you might clean them out in a few days.
We occasionally get swarms of those things here when we are fishing at night, if it happens, they get all over the bait, you pull up the hook and it's covered in them. Never catch a fish when it's like that, just have to pack up and go home.

[Homey the Reefkeeper]

NoobieNemo,
Goodluck with the isopods bro. I remember when you had problems with mantis shrimps and now you have to deal with this, I really feel your pain. I also have a large package of TBS in my 120g and I've yet to see isopods, but there are all kinds of weird stuff in my tank and it's difficult to ID everything. In addition I still have mantis shrimps I've yet to catch. Keep your head up and don't let this problem get you down :)

[NoobieNemo]

I stayed up late last niight and never saw anything...my bait fish stayed at the very top of the tank...I searched a million times, but never saw anything...and yes, I did give them time to come out between searches...I think I'm going to let my clown back in the tank during the day time, put the bait in the breeder...I feel so sorry for the little clown in the breeder all day and night...

[DgenR8]

I was thinking that if you wanted to use a bait fish to catch the isopods, maybe a real bait fish (killie) would be a good idea.
Then, I got to thinking, who knows what other parisites and problems that might add to your situation. All in all, not a good idea, I guess.

[Rav-65]

Would a trigger eat the isopods?

Vincent Ho

[nanocat]

A trigger would only be a larger target. These are blood sucking parasites, no fish would be safe.

[hwynboy]

I think the best option is to set up a 10 gallon QT...noi curing is necessary...just do frequent water changes every 3-5 days...leave your tank fishless for about 6 weeks or so and they will all starve to death. Your clowns will be fine in a 10 gallon tank. Just monitor water quality. You can use the water from your display tank to start you off.

Good Luck

[colnel270116]

well it sounds like the live rock thats what your tank rock looks like was infested with these next time you purchase live rock see if it is cured

[colnel270116]

Well I 2nd hwynboy

[clown2be]

I thought pic's like that were only in books!!!!!!!!!!.


Sorry to here about your troubles.

Whats TBS?

[dvlhzdu]

I want to know what happend in the mantis tank? one mean mofo to another. Any update?

[NoobieNemo]

the false perc. in the picture was my moms birthday present...it came on saturday, and the night before that, my gf and I stayed up very late hunting the mantis shrimp, we nearly took all the rock out and put it in saltwater containers...never found him, but the little SOB started clicking when we were putting the rocks back...ever since then, I hear 2 click sounds(most of the time) and sometimes 3...It almost makes me think it is a pistol shrimp...so I guess I don't have to hunt for him anymore...

no isopods last night, I put my bait fish(who only slept at the top last night, in the breeder tank, I put the false perc, back in the main tank, I will stay up late again tonight to make sure he is okay...)


wish me luck on nothing happening!

ps, when I brought my bait fish home, it gave birth...I have the best luck in the world...

[DgenR8]

Apologies in advance if I missed the answer, but what are you using as a "bait fish"?

[NoobieNemo]

a mollie from walmart(lyre)...I acclimated her, shes been doing great...

[kayl]

holy schizen-
I'm glad that I *haven't* (hopefully don't) had to deal with these yet!

[christsoldiers]

wow...
five years in the hobby, seen two TBS orders personnaly and about 100 more online and I've never seen that stuff before. Thats sad. If I was you I would just be patient and let them die. No way would I put my hand in there. That's some freaky stuff, crazy blood suckers...
I thought the mosquitoes were bad blech!

[NoobieNemo]

yea, people might start thinking about not getting TBS if they even mentioned it on their website...I feel cheated...I never read "blood sucking fish killer isopods" on there anywhere!:-(

[stupidfish]

well I'm at work tonight and stumbled across this miss fortune I feel bad for you 2. I know you love your fish as much as I love mine. They kinda grow on you like family. Just keep us informed I'm up all night if U get bored

[NoobieNemo]

haha...thanks man...I was sooo sleepy I felt like I was drunk...Last night I was adding some top off to my sump, and one of the heaters exploded...that was fun...I had two in there...so I took one out, and had to stay up awhile longer to figure out the right temp...does anyone know a really good temp that you can choose the degree on?ugh...but, on a lighter note,,, no blood sucking killers...should I go ahead and order another clown?

[tacocat]

A heater exploded. What's next for you? Whatever you do, don't watch "Master & Commander"

[NoobieNemo]

lol why not, I want to see it...

[nemogirl]

Hi Noobie. I had a similar experience shortly after putting my clown in the tank. In my case there was only one on the the fish, but I could see three large ones on the bottom of the tank - cirolanid isopods. If they have large, prominent black eyes it's a dead give away. I was eventually able to catch the three big ones I had seen - took a couple of nights of visiting the tank with a flashlight. I mixed metronidazole in his food for 10 days and it helped to keep them off him. I guess they eventually died off because I haven't seen any in over a month - only good pods in the tank now. At the time I was so new I hadn't set up a hospital tank yet so I had to just leave him in the main tank - but the metronidazole must have helped because he recovered beautifully and stayed bug-free. Good luck to you!

[crazyfingersmike]

NoobieNemo, This is the heater I have, it's excellent.... You get to set the temp you want, and it's got a built in digital display for the current temp. Also has a separate temp probe to put in another area of the tank for better readings. The heater itself is titanium, so it won't break :)

It's a little more expensive than a glass heater, but much worth it, in my opinion. Hell, you already lost one heater, and have to buy another one. So it would have already paid for itself.

http://thehiddenreef.com/saltwater_aquarium_supplies/aquarium_supplies_reef_products/won_brothers_pro_heat_ii_150_wat.htm

[NoobieNemo]

I was looking at the same heater on marinedepot...nice...I'm thinking about getting it...I want to order another clown from marinedepot, so maybe they can ship that with it...

[tacocat]

In M&C, there was a guy in the movie believed to be cursed with bad luck.

[NoobieNemo]

lol, normally my luck is great, but I guess in saltwater...it could go either way....I bought some ricordia, star polyps, and frogspawn yesterday, they all look very nice!!!I also got a mated pair or golden banded shrimp...they are pinching my condy...little sobs...

is it safe to have 2 golden banded, 1 peppermint, and 1 scarlet shrimp in the same 55 tank?

[tacocat]

Probably not. The banded can get quite aggressive. On the other hand, I have a blood shrimp the size of a small lobster. I bought a huge coral banded shrimp, and he used to mess with the blood shrimp. I guess the blodd shrimp had enough and snapped all the legs off of the CBS.

[nanocat]

Originally posted by NoobieNemo
...is it safe to have 2 golden banded, 1 peppermint, and 1 scarlet shrimp in the same 55 tank?

Rule #1 of reefkeeping, ask questions/research FIRST...buy AFTER ;)

"The Yellow Banded Coral Shrimp must be kept singly, or as a true mated pair, being intolerant of others of the same species. It may also harass other smaller shrimp of different species."

I'm not familiar with yellow banded shrimp myself, but if they're anything like the coral banded, then they can be rogues. CBS have even killed a few shrimp.

[xeon]

The pic in the early post got me hooked on reading this thread. I did notice among the standard approaches, someone mentioned fishing at night and having problems with isopods on their bait. I wonder what kind of bait they were using? If one could use some small tid bit of bloody fish to attract isopods, it may also be a good way to remove the isopods. You would not have to sacrifice a fish if this worked.

This thread makes me happy I bought rock that was ultra-cured with almost zero hitch hikers.

[stupidfish]

I agree with nanocat, ASK QUESTIONS/RESEARCH FIRST. since I have owned my tank I have made mistakes and spent lots of money in loseing fish to other fish and so on.

[Shak]

xeon:

If you saw the rock Noobie has you wouldnt be saying that. TBS rock in my opinion, is in a class by itself in the live rock industry. I might be a bit impartial though, since I also have TBS rock. I would easily bet that I have more life on a 1lb piece of my rock than you do on ALL of yours. Drawback is you take the good with the bad, Noobienemo has had his share of bad, he is due for some good luck sooooooooooooon!

I'm not trying to brag, but TBS rock has so much life you cant really compare it with "cured" rock.

Noobie:

I've been following this thread with great interest, sounds like your doing the right things so far, wish I had some advice but i've not had your same problem. I would hold off on the new clown for a bit longer though, just to be safe.

As far as the titanium heaters go, i've heard both sides of the coin. With your run of luck i'd only get one if you also invest in a seperate controller as well, dont trust it by itself, or so i've read. Personally i've stuck with the Ebo's, I used them for over 20 years and never had any problems with them, high quality although they are glass and will break, though not as easily as I believe they are made of the 2mm pyrex as opposed to cheaper versions made with 1mm.

Good luck friend, hope you get all those bugs out soon, im sweating bullets looking for the @#$%@ to show up in my tank.

[NoobieNemo]

I gave my bait fish to my sister, she has a freshwater aquarium, she is doing fine...last night there was no sign of bugs, and I checked my clown periodically through the night, nothing!

I hope it stays like this! I only got 60 pounds of live rock and 55 pounds of live sand...so I'm hoping they are gone gone!

[wasp]

Excellent!
But keep checking for several months, those isopods may have laid eggs. Therefore I would also avoid adding many other fish for a while as this could complicate matters.
So - Good Luck!!

[DgenR8]

I agree with not adding any more fish until you're certain that your problem is solved, but I believe that like shrimp, pods are live bearers, and eggs hatching down the road should not be a problem.
Keep a very close eye on your clown, and be diligent in your search for rogue isopods that have not yet been caught.

[NoobieNemo]

another night and all is fine...I put another clown in there, my two clowns are getting along nicely...when can I put another fish in there???

[PITSTOP]

Sorry to read what you are going through...my 120 never had a cirolanid until I put 40 lbs live rock from Gulf View (same as Tampa Bay). The florida live rock often has cirolanids....*****es!!!

[NoobieNemo]

did you ever complain to them that it did? I read what things came on TBS, and I don't recall reading cirolanids anywhere...

[nuts590]

You might want to consider slowing down with the constant cramming of more fish & critters into your tank. ESPECIALLY after this isopod snafu.

If your other threads are any indication of how much life your stuffing into your tank at once you are heading for disaster if you keep this pace up. I realize the desire to have a fully stocked reef quickly, but doing it at a breakneck pace will only lead to an "OMG, I puked my reef" thread.

Give it some time to balance itself out before adding anything else...

And before you start complaining to/screaming at another vendor, try some diplomacy with them first. After listening to people complain about their bank accounts for two years I can safely tell you the people that fly off the handle are the LAST people that ANYTHING gets done for. The people that try to approach a situation with some maturity and tact however are the ones that are best able to communicate the issue and are the people that are the easiest to help.

Just my two cents....

[NoobieNemo]

well nuts590, not to be offensive, but did I speak to you at Etropicals? Because if I did, you would easily recall that I was polite and well mannered...I'm a boy of the South...Backstabbers we might be...but behaved we are...I was very polite to etropicals on the phone, what I posted on the internet, I do not regret at all because if I did not do it, I wouldn't have my fish, not everyone that owns a saltwater aquarium can afford shipping for the same product twice...I'm not a doctor, I'm a person going to a college that will cost me an arm and a leg before I get out of it...And as for overstocking my aquarium, I wanted to go with 2 false percs, 1 lawnmower blenny, 1 very small yellow tang, and 1 royal gramma...And that's it...5 fish in total...

[ronrona]

Interesting pics