Phosphates in Gelatin?

[ScottT1980]

I have been considering using gelatin in my homemade mush to make it "hold together" at feeding. However, because the mush itself packs quite a bang for the buck (concerning overall nutrient load), I am a bit hesitant about adding another potential phosphate source...

I was concerned that perhaps the gelatin was a phospholipid but when looking at the ingredients, it contains no carbs or lipids (well, "fat"). However, in a 7 gram serving, 6 of those grams are protein. I wouldn't think the proteins would contribute much of the protein but I am worried about the mystery contents of that 1 gram. Any ideas? Do you think it would be a negligible amount of PO4 in regard to the overall mush concentration?

Thanks in advance
Scott T.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Gelation is a protein, but proteins actually comprise much of the phosphorus in a normal human diet. They don't generally teach this in beginning biochemistry, but many proteins are modified after they are synthesized, and some of those modifications add phosphate to the protein.

That said, I don't actually know how much phosphorus is in gelatin, but I can probably find out tomorrow. Nevertheless, since your mush will have a lot of other protein and phosphorus-containing molecules in it, there is not reason to think the gelatin will be a big source of phosphate relative to those other sources.

So I'd probably use it if it is an advantage for you to gel the mush.

[ScottT1980]

Thank you sir...

I assumed the PO4 would be bound in many lipids just because they are innately there, interesting to know otherwise. If you do get a number, I would be interested. Thanks again...

Take er easy
Scott T. (who knows just enough chemistry to realize he knows nothing)

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The sources of phosphate in food is a big concern to me as in my real world job I develop pharmaceuticals, and hyperphosphatemia is one of the areas I've spent a lot of time studying relative to kidney dialysis patients that absorb too much phosphate from food.

I do a search tomorrow and post the results.

[Habib]

I don't know what Randy will find.

If Gelatin is not a good choice than Agar-Agar might be a good alternative.

PO4 and some mineral and metal contents for some technical and purified Agar-agar can be found on their pages 43 and 44 of

http://www.bd.com/industrial/difco/difco_bbl_manual_sample.pdf

[ScottT1980]

Thanks Habib, I didn't even think of that and I can grab that from the lab, no problem. Once it expires, it is usually trashed...

[Scooterman67]

Just tagging anong to see results of his find!
:smokin:

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The gelatin looks low enough to not worry about it, IMO.

Here's an article:

Collaborative study of the determination of phosphorus in gelatin, dessert preparations, and mixes. Burkepile, Roger G. Food Drug Adm., Denver, CO, USA. Journal - Association of Official Analytical Chemists (1972), 55(3), 581-2.

Abstract

A collaborative study of a proposed method for P in gelatin, dessert prepns., and mixes has been conducted. The present AOAC method for P in fertilizers was modified for this study. Preliminary work by the associate referee involving 4 P std. samples compared the proposed method with the official final action AOAC method for gelatin, 23.004. Addnl., P std. spikes in gelatin at the 1 and 10 mg P2O5 levels were detd. by the proposed method. The proposed method is faster and more sensitive than the official method and is as accurate. Five collaborators and the associate referee analyzed 4 prepd. samples contg. various levels of P by the proposed method. The std. deviations varied from 0.005 for a 225 Bloom gelatin contg. an av. of 0.273% P2O5 to 0.016 for a strawberry-flavored com. gelatin with added lecithin contg. an av. of 0.110% P2O5. The proposed method has been adopted as official first action to replace 23.004, which was repealed, official first action.



For comparison, from my line of work, a low protein diet might be:



Low phosphorus-containing soya protein hydrolyzate for kidney disease patients. Kimoto, Minoru; Akasaka, Yoshimi. (Fuji Oil Co Ltd, Japan). Jpn. Kokai Tokkyo Koho (1996), 5 pp.

Abstract

Soya protein hydrolyzate for kidney disease patients contain <=1 % total P and <=4 % phytic acid-type P.

So gelatin looks low in P in the grand scheme of proteins.

[Scooterman67]

thanks for that information Randy, now can you help me with my 5 previous Kidney stones? Drink lots of H2O?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, lots of water. :D

[ScottT1980]

Great stuff Randy, thanks!!!

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You're welcome.

Happy reefing. :)