LR cycle-nearing the end

[masterswimmer]

During the cycle/curing of my LR I know I'm supposed to have an algae bloom. What kind? How much? How long?

I've been running my actinics for about 13 -14 hrs for only two days now. Brown algae is now growing freely on my rock and southdown. Is this normal? I haven't been running my daylight bulbs yet, just the actinics.

Should I add a clean up crew yet? Seems like there would be 'food' for them.

Any help would be greatly appreciated,

TIA,
Russ

[s1xtyfe3t]

well... the algae bloom is normal, however you may want to work into the lighting. start at a few hours a day (2-3) and every couple days kick it up an hour or two. this should help a bit with the bloom. If you do decide to add a cleanup crew make sure your ammonia and nitrites are zeroed out and your nitrates are below 20. repeat the same process with your 10k's (I'm guessing thats what you have) HTH, josh

[Tomzpc]

Originally posted by masterswimmer
During the cycle/curing of my LR I know I'm supposed to have an algae bloom. What kind? How much? How long?

I've been running my actinics for about 13 -14 hrs for only two days now. Brown algae is now growing freely on my rock and southdown. Is this normal? I haven't been running my daylight bulbs yet, just the actinics.

Should I add a clean up crew yet? Seems like there would be 'food' for them.

Any help would be greatly appreciated,

TIA,
Russ

Russ,

The brown algae (assuming that it isn't stringy or bubbly) is diatoms and very normal for a new tank. Like the previous poster said, snails and hermits are good to go when ammonia and trites are undetectable, assuming the nitrates aren't through the roof, which is unlikely.

[masterswimmer]

Thnx Tom & Josh,
My ammo has been at zero for about a week. My trites are at 5 and my trates are at about 15. The brown algae is spreading over my rock, sand and on the tank too. There are some spots where it seems like it is just a little bit hairy (really really tiny sprigs of hairlike brown). When I turned on my daylights for a little while, I did notice a little bit of green too. Very slightly green but nevertheless, green.

Is this still considered normal? Are my levels too high for a cleanup crew yet? Should I do a water change? If so, how much?

Thanx again,
Russ

PS- Josh, I'm using SLS T-5's, not 10k's.

[s1xtyfe3t]

I would wait until your nitrites are zeroed for a cleanup crew, it would be a shame to spend the money only to have them all die in a few days. a water change would also be helpful, maybe 10% a day for 3 or 4 days... this should help with your nitrates as they will be rising as your nitrites fall. also make sure that you are using RO/DI water as this algae is mainly composed of silica which is very commonly present in tap water. If you dont have an RO/DI unit yet they can be found relatively inexpensive on ebay. Buy the best unit you can afford as this is a very important part of the system. in the mean time you can use spring water or some LFS's sell RO water. Be sure to watch for any brown algae that appears to have bubbles in it. these are dinoflagellates and can spread very quickly and reak major havoc on your tank. if this is the case remove them manually as best as possible at the first sighting. BACK TO YOU...

[Tomzpc]

Originally posted by masterswimmer
Thnx Tom & Josh,
My ammo has been at zero for about a week. My trites are at 5 and my trates are at about 15. The brown algae is spreading over my rock, sand and on the tank too. There are some spots where it seems like it is just a little bit hairy (really really tiny sprigs of hairlike brown). When I turned on my daylights for a little while, I did notice a little bit of green too. Very slightly green but nevertheless, green.

Is this still considered normal? Are my levels too high for a cleanup crew yet? Should I do a water change? If so, how much?

Thanx again,
Russ

PS- Josh, I'm using SLS T-5's, not 10k's.

You're fine Russ. Your skimmer should still be kicking. Hold off on the snails and crabs until nitrites are undetectable and nitrates drop a little. Snails are very sensitive to water quality.

[masterswimmer]

Thanx again guys,

Josh, I've had a 6 stage RO/DI unit since before I bought my T-5's. My TDS has been zero since day one. Thanx for the input there. No bubbling and hope it stays that way. I will do a 10% water change for the next few days. I'll keep you posted on the outcome of that.


Tom, I 'throttled back' my skimmer just a tad. I had it running very wet for the first week and a half. My theory was that pulling out a good amount of wet skimmate would permit me to inadvertantly do a lot of water changes. I'd say in that first week and a half I changed out 60% - 70% of my water. Now it's a lot drier. However I think it is time to do some changes again.

This curing/cycling can be very confusing and stressful for a first timer. Such a large expense and then you see things finally start to happen. I've been reading and preparing for this for a year now but until you finally do it, you aren't sure exactly what to expect.

Thanx a lot for your help,
Russ

[foxstop]

Ammonia = 0
but Nitrites are at 3ppm. Still very high.
This always seems like the longest part of the cycle to me. That's not a scientific opinion, just my expereince over the years.
I'm hoping to see a marked decrease now that the rock is in my tank and my skimmer is pulling out some nice dry foam and black sludge.

How's the cycle progressing in your tanks Ross and Russ?

Brian

[masterswimmer]

Hey Brian,
My cycling is just about done. What I'm really doing now is allowing the tank to mature, as Eric Borneman so eloquently puts it.

My parameters are:
ammo = 0 (for two weeks now)
'trites = 0 (for a little over a week)
'trates = 5 - 10 (not bad, will do an H2O change tomorrow-10%)
SG = 1.0255
temp = 81.6 F
PH = 8.1

I'm planning to get my LS next Thursday (with Ross). I'm also looking into what components of a clean up crew I should go with.

Looking forward to adding some 'visible' life to the tank. Just not going to rush it.

Glad to hear your tank is coming together. Can't wait for all us newbies to graduate to that next level together.

Russ

[s1xtyfe3t]

Russ,
Just checked back on this thread. How's your algae bloom doing? I would say since you're this close to getting finished with the cycle, you could probably do a 20% WC to get things going a little quicker. I would look into what kind of cleanup you are going to need as far as what clean up crew you are planning to buy. If you want a lot of corraline growth go easy on the hermits, they can do a number on it. One of my personal favorites are nassarius snails. They stay small so you dont have to worry too much about them knocking things over. They Won't harm corals, they burrow in the substrate keeping it aerated (spelling?), And they are some pretty fast movers. Those suckers fly around the tank. Turbo snails arent a bad idea either. If you have any problems with bristle worms, Banded shrimp will make work of them. If you have any problems with aptasia, peppermint shrimp do a good job of ridding the tank of this vermin. And cleaner shrimp tend to be a favorite because they'll sometimes set up a cleaning station for the fish. Just make sure you don't buy any fish later down the road that will dispose of them. Good luck to ya, and keep us posted.

[masterswimmer]

s1xtyfe3t,
Thanx for that great input. I'm planning on the nassarius & turbos. Any input on the mexican, cerith, margarita & conicals? I am also looking to add some peppermint, banded & cleaner shrimps as well. If I add these fellas and don't have the aptasia or bristleworms, will those guys starve and die off? Or, will they eat other detritus and garbage?

I did want some hermits. Will a few decimate my coraline? Should I avoid them completely?

What about starfish? I was hoping for a purple linkia (soon) and maybe a blue linkia (down the road).

As always, thanx for your input.
Russ

[Tomzpc]

Russ,

If it were my 75G I'd go for a mix of 75-100 snails. The true "turbo" snails are the large mexican turbos. They are almost golf-ball size on average. Many places will sell Astrea snails as turbos. Astreas are white conehead shaped and about half the size of the mexican turbos. They do a good job but are slower and are unable to "right" themselves when they flip over so many of them inevitably become hermit food. Margaritas fall in between the Turbos and the Astreas IMO. I've kept a bunch of all three over the years and prefer the Mexican Turbos. I second the Nassarius recommendation. These guys are great for cleaning detritus off of the sand. They're little but they sure can cruise! Cerith snails are good because they'll actually get down beneath the sand along the edge of the tank. They'll go anywhere; sand, rocks and glass. I'd go for 25 of each; mexican turbos, nassarius, ceriths.

Most hermit crabs are opportunistic omnivores (not sure who coined that but I like to use it) and will eat just about anything which is why it's good to have some IMO. I'd get a mix of scarlet(red legs with yellow eyes) and blue-legged. Some of the other popular ones grow fast and can get big. Big crabs in a reef tank are bad.
I'd go for somewhere between 15 to 25 of each; scarlets and blue-legs.

Linkia stars are very sensitive to water quality. I'd avoid them until you've had the tank running for awhile with fish and water parameters check out great and steady.

Hope that helps and these are just MY experienced opinions as always

[foxstop]

I think Tom's advice is very good.
Nerite snails are great glass cleaners. I had a few in my nano tank. The only thing is they are intertidal and will sometimes crawl up out of the water near the lip of the aquarium and wait for the tide to come in (which it never does:D) I didn't have too much trouble with them.

Brian

[masterswimmer]

Tom,
As always, fabulous advice. I will absolutely avoid the astrea's. Don't need to help the critters 'right' themselves.

I will find out on Monday which cleanup crews are available.

Brian, did you want any LS? I hope it's not too late to put in an order for you. Let me know, ASAP.

Russ

[foxstop]

Russ,

I want to wait a bit till my Nitrites drop.
I know that some LS might help, but I think the critters in the sand will have a rough time in my tank at the moment.

I can always put in an order with RM in a couple of weeks.


Thanks!

Brian

[seaham358]

IMO 75-100 snails is too many.. I don't even have that many in my 125 and I have very little algae. I lost 95% of my snails after my UV/pump crashed the tank. I just got 45 total snails and I had maybe 10 left and they have just about all my algae gone again. In a new tank I would start with 35-45 tops and see how they do, if they can't keep up then get some more. If they eat all the algae then they will starve I believe that's what happened to my first turbos that I got when I started my tank.
Shrimp the Coral banded can be a killer so if your planning on getting any small fish like blennies I would pass on the CB shrimp. I had one that grabbed my bi-color as soon as it hit the water, I had to beat the thing with my dowel rod.
Crabs are cool I have a mixed bunch of scarlet and blue legs... 30 total is a good start

Linkia as Tom stated stay away from till tank is IMO 9-12 months old. I listened to a LFS and got one when my tank was only 3 months old..... It died in less then a month.....

[Tomzpc]

Originally posted by seaham358
IMO 75-100 snails is too many..

Bob...I agree if we were talking about 75-100 turbos or astreas or margaritas, but nassarius and cerites stay very small so I don't think that a mix of these snails would be too small. Regardless, there's tons of reading right here on RC on this subject so if you spend some time getting lots of feedback then you can't go wrong Russ. :thumbsup:

[foxstop]

I plan on putting some snails in my fuge as well. Do you guys have snails in your refugiums? I don't plan on too many.

I love all of the feedback here. Keep it coming!:D

Brian

[masterswimmer]

Bob, Tom, great info. keep it coming.

So it seems the coral banded is now out. Looks like peppermints and cleaner shrimps. How many of each of these two? Just a couple?

How about 15 - 20 each of the following:
nassarius
mexican turbos
ceriths
scarlet hermits
blue legged hermits

You guys are awesome.....keep it flowing,
Russ

[seaham358]

I have 5 peppermint in my reef..... never see them all at once they hide a lot and come out at night and when I feed.
I had 2 cleaners and 2 fire shrimp. Something killed my cleaners I should be getting 2 more next week:p
The fire shrimp are great looking shrimp.....
I would only get 5 turbos... They get big and eat a lot.... I would be afraid in a new tank not having enough to feed them all.
You can always add more later........ My thinking is why start with a lot add 30-40 and give them a month or so and see how they are doing if they are not cutting it add another 10-20 and go from there. As you will find out there is nothing worse then a dead snail in your tank. I had a BIG turbo die on my overflow pipe and I could not figure out where the smell was coming from for about a week..........Then I found him took it out and is was mush inside ... talk about stink..... Field dressing a deer smells better then that.
IMO good choice on the CB .. I forgot to say that it ended up killing the bicolor after a few weeks....

Brian....
I have about 2 snails in my 15 fuge if they are still alive? I never checked after the crash.. and around 5 in my 20 fuge (survivors from the tank crash)

[foxstop]

Thanks for the advice Bob.
I was thinking of checking around locally for some clean up critters as I'm thinking it would be best to ensure they have enough of a food supply. Last time I was in Tropical World they did have some hermits and snails. Either that or I would order a smaller package, say half of what I would normally put in a 120.

I like the gradual approach as you suggested.

Brian

[masterswimmer]

Bob, I'm liking the idea of a gradual approach too. Much easier to add more as opposed to having to try to catch some and remove them.

Russ

[masterswimmer]

Bob, do you feed your shrimp and crabs? If yes, what? I want to add them, but I'm not sure if they only clean up the detritus. Also, since I have no fish or corals yet, I'm not feeding my tank. Would I add some food for the peppermints, fire and cleaner shrimps? Same question for the scarlet & blue legged crabs.

Thanx,
Russ

[Tomzpc]

I would hold off on the shrimp until you have fish or are close to adding fish. Snails and crabs will need no direct feeding of the tank. Their food requirements are very low and the live rock and algae blooms should sustain them just fine if you plan to add a fish or two a few weeks to a month later.

[seaham358]

i would wait on the shrimp also.... Toss in a fish and get the tank running.... When you add a fish no telling what is going to happen. Mini cycle, Nothing?? I would wait, it would suck to have a few $3 chromis kill a 30 fire shrimp because of some fluke cycle. JMO. Stranger things have happened.
If your going to go with the crabs and snail for a few weeks I would feed them a little flake once a week just to watch them come out running around looking for the food. My shrimp eat the brine shrimp when I feed my fish and what ever else they get from the tank.

[masterswimmer]

Damn, I didn't hear back from you guys quick enough. I just picked up 3 peppermints. Hopefully they'll be ok. I'm dripping them now. So what exactly would you recommend I feed those puppies?

Guess I'm getting a bit anxious,
Russ

[seaham358]

Peppermint are cheap so I would not worry about them. I dont really see anything happening but you never know. I would hold off on the fire shrimp. I would put some flake in every couple days. They should find stuff on the LR but its fun to see them swim after the flake.
Come on Toss a fish in..:rollface: :rollface: :rollface: :rollface:

[masterswimmer]

Bob,
lol, i wanted to go for the chromis today. But, I figured i'm getting my LS this week, let me add that first. maybe i'll add the chromis next weekend.

Are you going to make it next Sunday?

Russ

[foxstop]

Diatoms are starting now in my tank, but my Nitrites are still way high. I figure I'm at least a week behind you guys since that last shipment of rock came a week later.
The Nitrates are spiking up and the Ammonia is zero so I know the cycle is continuing.
Ceriths and Nerites are good at eating Diatoms so I will look to get them first and when ny Nitrites zero out my False Perc and Clown Goby will go in the big tank and I'm kissing my nano goodbye. I didn't want to put too much from the nano into the main tank due to some of the undesirable algae I have in there.

I also hooked up the T5 Actinic 03's and they are a really nice complement to the Hamilton 14K halides. With them the purple coraline fluoresces and looks great!

That's the update for now. I look forward to seeing your tank on Sunday Russ!

Brian

[masterswimmer]

Brian, very cool. Can't wait to see it

Russ

[seaham358]

Sand...... how much you getting to seed with......
I think it was frank that said if you get a pvc pipe maybe 2-3" and long enough to get to the bottom you can put your sand in the pvc and have it slide down into the waterand spread it slowly like this. I think he said George did it this way and had very little cloudy water.

Meeting..... don't plan on me but if I can make it I will.

[masterswimmer]

I'm getting 25 lbs of LS. I'll probably put 15 lbs in the display and 10 lbs in the fuge.

Russ

[Tomzpc]

Since live sand is wet already it generally will just fall to the bottom of the tank without a sandstorm. I'd just open the bag down near the sandbed and pour it our slowly.

[s1xtyfe3t]

depends on the live sand... if it's real small grain size I would go with the pvc type deal... I've dealt with this many times already and the pvc works best... if you have powerheads TURN THEM OFF. anything that creates water movement will stir the sand and you may not be able to see for a few days. What kind of LS are you going with? I wouldn't reccommend arag-alive for seeding. you'd be better off with grunge from the LR bin at the LFS. Or see if you can buy some sand out of their tanks. POST UP

[Tomzpc]

I forgot to mention that you definitely need to turn off your powerheads and sump return. Thanks for pointing that out s1styfe3t.

[seaham358]

When I added my LS in my 125 it was already running and I got a small sand storm and it was wet LS. It was not like you would get from south down but took a day to settle out.

[masterswimmer]

The LS is coming from Fiji. I will use the PVC method.

I've got lots of life in my sand already. I've found some kind of worms, not sure which kind though. Don't even know if they are good or bad. I added three peppermint shrimp on Sunday. One of them had a large egg sack. Well lo and behold the eggs were released already and I've got tons of miniscule shrimp running around the sandbed. Since I don't have any fish or hermits or snails yet, there are no predators and so far they are surviving!!

I'm sure that won't last for long since I'm adding the clean up crew on Thurs. It is nice to see though. Especially since the tank is so new, it's nice to see that the water param's are at least conducive to short term life support.

Russ

[Tomzpc]

Originally posted by masterswimmer
I added three peppermint shrimp on Sunday. One of them had a large egg sack. Well lo and behold the eggs were released already and I've got tons of miniscule shrimp running around the sandbed. Since I don't have any fish or hermits or snails yet, there are no predators and so far they are surviving!!

Russ

Very cool Russ. By the time your first fish go in they'll be plenty of live food to keep them busy and happy! I'm still planning on making it Sunday so PM me you address if you haven't already.

Tom