Nitrate baby

[masterswimmer]

I got NITRATES . Yeah!!!!

Ammonia hasn't gone down yet. Nitrites are still up there. But now the 'trates are a risen.

And the cycle continues.

Russ

[andro]

Here are my parameters:

PH 8.2
Ammonia 8.0
Nitrite 5.0
Nitrate 80

[nine9d]

My params will follow this evening. :D

[nine9d]

edit*

[nine9d]

Sorry I wasn't able to post my params. Too much going on. Will post tomorrow :)

[masterswimmer]

Here's my parameters:

Temp - 81.2
Ph - low at 7.8
salinity - 1.0245
ammonia - ZERO (wooohooo)
trites - 5
trates - 5

Getting closer, I can feel the love........
Russ

[andro]

Ammonia down to .25

[seaham358]

Russ time to start thinking about a small hardy fish to toss in. Let that baby test the waters for a few weeks before you get the expensive fish. Any thoughts on a test fish?
Green chromis are a cool little fish. They like to school so 3-5-7 would be nice.

[WAGERJA]

While I agree that a school of green chromis would be great, I would hold off on any fish for some time if at all possible.
You can probably start to bring your lighting up now. I would wait til your Nitrite's are 0, and then do a good sized WC to cut down on the Nitrates. Then order your clean up crew. Wait 4 weeks and then start to slowly add fish. I know it’s hard to have the tank going for something like 8+ weeks with no fish but this is how I would do it.

read Myth 15:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-01/eb/index.htm

As always your mileage may very.
J

[Tomzpc]

I'm a big fan of Eric B. but I think that he's on the ultra-conservative side with those time-line recommendations. Of course he's the expert and not me, but I've never waited longer than a week or two after cycle to add fish, with no negative effects. By after cycle I mean Nitrates~0.

[WAGERJA]

Yes, agreed "ultra-conservative" but if I had it to do over I'd try it his way. I'd just shorten the time line up a bit. Just to see how to worked out. In theory he has some very good points and I'd like to see if in the real world they worked. Being on the "ultra-conservative" couldn't hurt just takes time a patience. :)
J
edit: this way could even be faster to the goal of REEF keeping which is to keep and grow coral, fish are a 2nd seat in my book but thats me. ;)

[seaham358]

I didn't mean toss him in right at this moment. But waiting 5-8 more weeks is out there IMO. I have had my chromis in from the beginning and they are still kicking. (numbers down due to bad yellow tail damsels) When the nitrites drop some toss something in. I would not even wait till you get the clean up crew. I see no harm to the fish or tank. I had fisn in both my tanks with no I'll effects. I dont need to read hours to know what worked for me. Key is pick a fish you like that is hardy.

[cybertomtbcb]

This is the beauty of Reef Central and our club to be more specific. You'll get many different solutions to many different problems. You start to try a few yourself and people will be asking your opinion. I think both gentleman have points but I through in a hardy inexpensive fish and let nature do the rest.
My best to all.

[masterswimmer]

I am here and at this point because of you guys. I value all opinions and make my decision based on them. I cycled my tank based on my own 'formula'. It kind of co-mingled a few various theories. I ran my skimmer from day one on a very 'wet' skimmate. The first two days I pulled out 2-5 gallon buckets of skimmate. Not real dirty but very brown. I replaced the skimmate with a new salt mix as my topoff. This basically did water changes for me at an excessive rate. During the first week to 10 days I ran my skimmer like this. During this time I changed about 45-50 gallons of water. Always replacing it with a new salt mix. I used about 3/4 of my 200 gallon bucket of Oceanic. I figured with what I've spent already, another $40 is peanuts. My ammonia is gone, the smell is gone, my trites haven't fallen yet and neither has my trates, my salinity is at 1.025 and my water is crystal clear. I have since 'throttled down' my skimmer to pull a much more dry skimmate. I found a miniscule featherduster, alive. The tank looks absolutely great. I want to put a fish in but patience has been the cornerstone of my entrance into this hobby. I'll wait till my trites are at zero and my trates are only a trace. As for a cleanup crew, I want to wait until I have some noticeable algea growth so I don't have to worry about them foraging for non-existent food.

I am starting to leave my actinics on for a few hours every day. I will introduce the daylight probably this week for a few hours every day. I'm sure that will get some algae growing (not that I really want it but I know it's somewhat necessary). Then I'll work on the cleanup crew.

At what point in time do I start the fuge lighting? I've had it running in the system with no lights since the beginning. Also, when would i add my macro's?

Bob, green chromis sound like a good choice, just not totally sure yet. You have any other suggestions for the 'canary in a coalmine'?

Russ

[seaham358]

IMO you can run the fuge now you have nitrates so the fuge will help reduce the NO3. Not 100% if that NO2 at that level will have an affect on caluerpa. I say do a 20% water change and add some weeds.
Have you thought about what fish you want... give us a list to look at and we can help tell you which are hardy.

Chromis are nice friendly hardy cheap fish but there are others out there that are hardy.
Stay away from the nasty Damsels...... My yellow tail are mean buggers and they have killed about $60 in nice fish. They are smart and can not be caught in a net........
My first fish after my Chromis in my reef was a Scopus tang yellow tangs are hardy also but can get mean. My Scopus has never bothered anyone....(brown tang)
My first in my fowlr was a yellow tang and he has fits everyonce and a while.
Now the fun part begins........

[masterswimmer]

Bob,
Thanx for the input. I agree with the fuge going now. As you said, the trites and trates are there. So, the fuge should start to function as planned.

I'll get a fish wish list together too.

Russ

[Tomzpc]

Yellow-tailed damsels seems to be hit or miss. They are not even close to being as nasty as domino or blue devil damsels and sometimes they are wimps. My YT damsel is second to last in my tank's pecking order. In my 90 I have, two mated ocellaris clowns, a royal gramma (no reef tank is complete without one IMO) :D , a yellow coris wrasse, a sixline wrasse, a blackcap basslet (lowest on the pecking order but added a good six months after everyone else) and the aforementioned YT damsel.

Good luck with your tank stocking Russ. So many fish, so little time. :p

[masterswimmer]

oops

[masterswimmer]

Tom,
Believe it or not, your stocking sounds similar to what I'd like. A definite on the royal gramma, one pair ocellaris clowns, possibly a lawnmower blenny or (3) neon blue goby, six line wrasse or bicolor pseudochromis, either a blue or yellow tang (preferrably a blue) and eventually a mandarin.

Feedback anyone?

Russ

[Tomzpc]

Originally posted by masterswimmer
Tom,
Believe it or not, your stocking sounds similar to what I'd like. A definite on the royal gramma, one pair ocellaris clowns, possibly a lawnmower blenny or (3) neon blue goby, six line wrasse or bicolor pseudochromis, either a blue or yellow tang (preferrably a blue) and eventually a mandarin.

Feedback anyone?

Russ

I'd avoid the bicolor pseudo with the royal gramma. You can try, but there's a very good chance they'll fight. I kept a strawberry pseudo and royal gramma together in a 55 for years and they hated each other but did great. The bicolor is too similar to the gramma color-wise. You'd enjoy the six line more anyway, as grammas and pseudos are both hiders and will stray from the rockwork at times but spend quite a bit of time in the rockwork as well. You've kept african cichlids Russ. They can be very much like most tanganyikan cichlids. Slow swimming, short nervous movements. A six line wrasse is always in motion and they love to dart in and out of the rocks. Great fish. I love ocellaris clowns. My last pair lived together for about five years and I wouldn't have a tank without them either. Get tank-raised if you can. Lawnmower blennies are tough. Some have success with them but many, if not most, starve in captivity. I have tried two and both starved. If you buy one, make sure that it will take prepared food beforehand. In nature, these guys get lots of algae. More than we hope to have in our tanks. I would get a yellow tang if you had your heart set on a tang. Hippos (which I assume you mean by blue) are more prone to ich and often tend to be skittish. Stay away from a Powder Blue tang until you have more experience and a bigger tank.

I have no experience with the neon blue gobies and would have to grab one of my books for info on them. By the way, if you don't already know, this is THE book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1890087386/inktomi-bkasin-20/ref%3Dnosim/002-6899669-4561638)
when it comes to fish IMO.

[WAGERJA]

IMO Tom is on the money on all counts. and so is Bob about the fuge and Damsels in general.
J

[rhdoug]

One thing I have seen with royal grammas is their fondness of shrimp. I had to actually fish for one with a tiny hook baited with a piece of krill to get him out of the tank. He had eaten several peppermint shrimp, and was in the process of dis-assembling a coral banded shrimp day by day when I finally got him out. It was kind of comical to see antennas sticking out of his mouth though.
They are beautiful and hardy fish, and a good addition if you don't mind losing shrimp.
Tom is right about the six-line, great fish. Mine did eventually kill a scooter blenny by harassing him until he wouldn't eat. That is the only fish he bothered, and now that he is at the bottom of the pecking order he is fine. Very inquisitive and active. None of the other fish have any patience for him, and frequently go after him. Usually just a quick chase and no harm done. The flame angel frequently follows him through the tank like a puppy.

[masterswimmer]

Tom, Randy great input, thank you.

Guess I'll be reconsidering.

I'll post the next list soon.

Russ

[Tomzpc]

Originally posted by rhdoug
One thing I have seen with royal grammas is their fondness of shrimp. I had to actually fish for one with a tiny hook baited with a piece of krill to get him out of the tank. He had eaten several peppermint shrimp, and was in the process of dis-assembling a coral banded shrimp day by day when I finally got him out. It was kind of comical to see antennas sticking out of his mouth though.
They are beautiful and hardy fish, and a good addition if you don't mind losing shrimp.


That's very interesting Randy. I blamed the disappearance of all of my shrimp (2 pepps, 2 skunk cleaners, 2 blood) on my yellow coris wrasse and/or my 2 sally lightfoot crabs. I never even considered my royal gramma since my past tank had one for years along with shrimp with no troubles. It just shows again how each individual fish is different in some ways, regardless of species. Just like angels are hit or miss with corals.