help design my new 120.

[David P]

Ok, I got the green light for a new 120. I want to run some ideas by yall and get your ideas/feedback

120 on DIY 3' high aluminum frame stand with easily removable maple skin. pendant lights with no canopy, bare bottom (doesnt look as nice but no detritus)

overflow will be like Calfos idea, running the entire back and only big enough for two durso heads going out 2 bulkheads 1' from both sides.

I recently won a 1" sea swirl so I will use that as main return from Iwaki 40 to center of tank.

Im thinking of an oceansmotion 4way to return my closed loop from an AmpMaster3000. I considered the sequence, but AM3K seems slightly more electrically frugal. Im thinking one return in each of upper corners, one dead center of tank, and one bottom return feeding a spray bar. Perhaps two suction bulkheads, lower in the tank about 1.5' from ends.

Water will fall from overflow bulkheads through the wall into a 45g (fuge/settle out tank/zoo grow out) tank with PC lighting on reverse schedule. It will then go through overflow back through wall to the largest sump I can fit under the tank (with no lighting to grow coraline!) Here I have a question, I already have a 6-1 simmer. Should I just buy another 6-1 or sell the one I have, loose money and buy a 8-2(3?) skimmer?

I have been having problems lately with ebo jager heaters. Not breaking or leaking but the thermostat goes WAY off, I turned one all the way down and it still heated water to 85 degrees and was still heating... What types of heaters should I use?

I think this is the majority of my ideas/questions, so please let me know what you think or if you have suggestions.

[OUinLA]

I just got an ebo jager heater and I hate it. I'm having the same thermostat issues. I forget the brand, but the titanium heaters are supposed to be pretty good. If I don't get one of those i'm getting whatever brand petco carries since the last one lasted me 6 years and the ebo laster 3 months.

Everything sounds good. i don't even know if you need another skimmer do you? won't the 6-1 handle that sized aquarium. If not, then I would sell it and go with the bigger one.

I think you still get detritus even with a bare bottom.

[David P]

6-1 is rated for either 100 or 125 so it would be maxed out. I will have detritus, but if Im pushing about 3000 gph in a 120, and no sand to grab ahold of it, it should all go down to my settle out tank or skimmer.

[nanocat]

Hard to beat the price of the AquaVia titanium heaters at BigAlsOnline. I have two and so far they are extremely accurate at holding temp. I think I paid around $14 for a 100w, and the higher wattage isn't much more.

I considered the WON Pro, but 1. they're twice the cost, and 2. too many posts from people who've had issues with the controllers.

[o2manyfish]

Dave P,

The bare bottom still collects alot of detritus.

For your heaters, get yourself a Ranco dual stage controller (less than a $100). Then use it to turn your chiller on or your heaters on.

Then just use a power strip with a couple of heaters with the thermostats all the way up.

Aluminum Stand ? I would go for steel.

Dave B

[aquariumclown]

Tagging along, I'm planning a 120 or 150 (depend on 20" high or 24")

[tankgirl2]

David, what pendants and reflectors are you thinking about?
Also are you going with VHO or PCs, and 400W MHs?

[mcsock]

Dont touch those Viaqua heaters they are total trash. I had 2 fail in 4 months. They stick on and over heat the tank. Go with a name brand metal heater. Setting up a tank like you are working with, saving a few bucks on a cheap heat is not a smart move.

[Reefholic]

I'm sorry to jump the thread. Have you guys ever thought of building 2 in one tank? So one side can have a reeftank and the other half can be made for fish only tank. The tank can share the same center overflow or maybe you can build 2 separate center overflows with adjustable connection. I was thinking like a big 150 tank but can be sealed off if you want to use the other half for something else. One tank but can be adjusted to 2 separate system. I'm just throwing ideas here.

Indra

[moonpod]

David, I have the Calfo type overflow and it ROCKS. Lots of flow, very little noise. If you keep the boxes like only 6" or so tall, you don't really even need a Durso.

Personally I like Sequences, but whatever minor point. I too will be redoing my plumbing on my 180 w/ a heavy duty 4 way off of my sequence.

Depending on your load, IMO, get the biggest, baddes skimmer that'll fit (physically and your budget). I am a you can't overskim type. For reference I use a dual beckett 36" skimmer on my 180.

I definitely second the ranco controller. No heater has a reliable thermostat IME.

[aquariumclown]

Moonpod, what does the Calfo type overflow look like? I wanna it to rock my tank too! :D

[moonpod]

Envision a slot cut into the top back of the tank that the water overflows through. Behind is a box glued onto the back of the tank (like a permanent HOB overflow). Mine is about 6x6" on the side and I actually have two long slots (doesn't run the length of the tank). Each of my boxes has a 1.5" drain.

[David P]

Dave B, I was thinking with 3K of flow (including a spray bar pointing at the bottom) the detritus would stay in suspension(?)
No chiller, but thinking of using a controller as you said.

TG2 I have ReefOptixIII+ with 20k Ultra Blue bulbs. I will be reusing them on the new tank.

Aquarium clown, look from the side of your tank and imagine an L running from one end to the other in the upper rear corner. The verical part of the letter will have teeth cut in it the entire length of the tank(vertical) so you are skimming the entire length of the tank not just around a normal overflow. Behind the teeth you have one or two bulkheads and the water overflows outside of your tank. Not only do you supposedly get better skimming of the surface watter, but you dont take up as much realestate in your tank.

heaters, ok Ive heard bad things of Won brothers, one vote against Via aqua, is there any other titanium heaters out there that are worth their weight in beans?

Does anyone have any input on my placement for the suction/return bulkheads in the back of the tank?

[David P]

chuck, your box is on the outside? hummmm....got pics?

[moonpod]

OK this is what it looks like from inside the tank. Nothing juts into or takes up space inside the tank
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/14778Overflow_tank.jpg

From the outside. Please forgive my electrical hazard. There is a lid on the overflow and a fan sits on the lid.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/14778Box_Outside.jpg

What the box looks like from the inside. 1.5" drain. There are two of these on my tank. Some polyfilter by the teeth.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/14778Inside_Box-thumb.jpg

[Konadog]

Originally posted by David P
...heaters out there that are worth their weight in beans?
Dave, I only know of one way to make heat from beans :D and your wife won't like it one bit :lolspin:

[aquariumclown]

Ahhhh...I wont be able to do Calfo. Mine will be a see through tank so a overflow box will have to be inside the tank on the side. No room on the outside of the tank on the side either. it's tight!

[David P]

Thanx Chuck.

Dave, why would you go with steel over aluminum? I know I can paint the steel, but if I paint the aluminum, wouldnt it be even that much closer to be salt water proof?

[cali_reef]

David,

I just got a total of 4 Via aqua 300W titanium heaters. one failed right out of the box, one does not heat the water but does get warm. That is a 50% failure rate. The good thing is they have a great customer service rep in the area that brings new heater to my wife. :lol: Check with Scott B, he can get them for you pretty cheap. Using a separate controller is a great idea, I just need to go get mine from California.

Aluminum or steel? I would go with aluminum and get it polished and clear coated, or powder coated if your wife wants to match the new color scheme of the room. Aluminum is strong enough for tank stand application if you stay with at least 2"x2" .125" thick square tubes.

You guy should see the POS AGA wood stand I have under the 180, it is made from 1x2's and particle boards. :eek1:

[o2manyfish]

Dave P,

Smash a been can on your head, then smash a hammer -- Now which do you want to be holding up your tank while your laying under it ?

I just don't like alum - I think if you have an earthquake shudder it is more liable to twist.

Isn't Alum a bigger PITA to work with ?

My stand is 2x3 .25" steel with 5x5 legs - I have jumped on it - So I know the tank is safe -- LOL

Dave B

[aquariumclown]

Yea, alum is a pain because you need special welder to weld them together. You can weld steel with just about anything. I know this because I used to work on cars and you can't fix a cylinder head for the reason that no one around can weld aluminum.

Leo

[tankgirl2]

David, Here's an excellent short article on overflow designs. Some surprising info!
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-07/gt/index.htm

[cali_reef]

Aluminum is much stronger than carbon steel for the same amount of given weight, which is the reason aircraft are mostly built from Alum. High price/high performance large yachts are built with alum because the strength\weight ratio and here is an article that explains it in details. http://www.kastenmarine.com/alumVSsteel.htm

I learned how to tig weld aluminum in high school so it can't be that hard. Here is a good article on how to tig weld aluminum
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledge/articles/content/tigalum.asp It does take a lot of practice to get a good bead going on a joint, but I find welding steel is as difficult if you haven’t done enough. Tig welded joint is very clean looking if done properly, same method on steel is not as nice.

Leo, I am not sure why they don’t weld aluminum heads in automotive industry. Prop aircraft uses aluminum cylinder barrels and cylinder heads that gets welded repairs all the time in their 30-50 year useful life, same goes for aluminum outdrives on boats. I know that because I have had both done in shops before.

Dave, I think the stand Con built is really nice and way over built for the purpose. Have you ever try standing on a can of beans? It won’t crush unless you first put a dent in the wall of the can. Most metal have good compression strength, you don’t need much to hold weight vertically. The stand will fail if there are excessive side movements (in an earth quake?) causing the joints to split open, regardless what material it is made from. You can strengthen the joints by using gussets, just like a steel bridge, bottom of a tall sail boat mast or aluminum bicycle frames. I haven’t priced aluminum and steel tubing in a long time so I can’t comment which would be more cost effective. I am going to built my next stand out of 2x4’s because that is the cheapest and the easiest way to do it, plus I like to work with wood.:)

[OUinLA]

there's a thread around the reef discussion forum of an engineer who built an large tank and used aluminum for it's strength. I don't really know, but I remember being surprised when I read that.

[aquariumclown]

Leo, I am not sure why they don’t weld aluminum heads in automotive industry. Prop aircraft uses aluminum cylinder barrels and cylinder heads that gets welded repairs all the time in their 30-50 year useful life, same goes for aluminum outdrives on boats. I know that because I have had both done in shops before.
You are absolutely right. I should clarify...

It's not that they don't weld aluminum heads, it's that not too many people in the auto repair business do it. Perhaps it's not that common and there's no profit in it. That's why I assumed it's not as easy (so maybe I'm wrong in this asumption). Now I'm sure they do it all the time in other high budget applications like you said. I was only referring to my own experience.

Leo

[David P]

Leo, ok I was gunna say Ive welded both steel and aluminum heads when I worked in my families automotive shop. (I also tried to magnaflux a toyota head one day while not paying attention!)

TG2 thanx Ill check out that thread

Ive got a tig welder I have to pull out to do some other welding (decorative gates for me and lumber rack for a neighbor) but Im going to have to get some 1% thoriated tungsten for practicing on aluminum. (hah! bet ya didnt think I knew that huh?) I used to weld mirrored stainless steel enviromental clean rooms for intell but its been too long playing with aluminum.

So no via aqua heaters, no won bros heaters, Im getting skeptical of Ebo heaters, whats left?

Does anyone have any experience with aqua controlers? Seems pretty cool control PH, ORP, Temp, and major lighting....

[moonpod]

Yeah, I've got an ACII and it's cool. The only catch is that it's x10 driven, so you gotta watch for electronic interference.