Degrading the beauty of your reef by overstuffing it!

[Newreeflady]

Am I the only one who thinks this way? I think that over time my opinion has changed a bit. My reef was packed with rock and corals, but now when I see tanks with mere inches between corals of different species, they just don't have the same appeal anymore. There is something to be said about keeping it simple, leaving some space between corals ... not having to worry that in a week or two you may have to frag something to avoid stings.

What are your thoughts? Am I crazy?! :eek1:

Angela.

Oh, and hi to everyone out there! I have missed this place:)

[technoshaman]

I kind of feel that way sometimes. I am redoing my 215 next week - removing some rock and most of the soft corals and letting the sps have room to spread out.


It's tempting to keep cramming corals in but these garden style tanks can be a pain even if pretty.

Less is more and all that.

[Ron]

I am with you. When I first started in this hobby I was really drawn to the tanks that were jam packed with stuff (an example are the tanks at garf). However, I find myself being more interested in tanks that have more open space in them. It just looks better to me now.

Ron
:strooper:

[Newreeflady]

hehheh. Funny how time with things changes your opinion. When I set up my next reef I will be going for a more open look. Less rock in the display, i'll leave that for the sump area. Less can definitely be more, imo:)

It seems like what is really promoted, though, is rock wall, coral stuffed tanks. Not that these aren't excellently thought out systems, but the simplicity is just gone from these. I think that someone can get just as nice a tank, or even nicer, with less coral and rock using a little imagination with aquascaping and having just a couple show fish.

Angela.

[Crawdad1]

I agree 100%. When I set up my 240 my intention was to let the corals fill the tank not the rocks. This is all the rock I have init.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/1/42733727.jpg

[dendronepthya]

What's up Angela. I think setting up a tank is like decorating a room. Sometimes, less is definitely more. I am all about open spaces, and interesting structures.

[roadstar]

Agree wholeheartedly, less is more. Kind of ironic that often times, the vastness and openness of the seas is recreated in our homes in quite the claustrophobic manner.

[dattack]

I like it jampacked with SPS.

[Sid]

And of course the less is more look is cheaper because you dont need as much live rock :)

[Big E]

I agree ..........much more appealing to see open spaces between bommies & walls. Plus it gives the fish somewhere to swim above & around.

Frags & loose corals packed up around the front of the tank also kills the whole effect of the layout.

[Bomber]

Angela, as usual we're two like minds. :)


I went from this:
http://reefcentral.com/totm/2001-12/frmtop.jpg

To this:
http://rockyshores.saltyzoo.com/Jerel/Reef2/2003-09-07-8970.jpg

[MiddletonMark]

Interesting thought and thread.

And here I was just going to keep getting bigger and bigger tanks to deal with my growth issues ;)

[Frick-n-Frags]

I don't necessarily like a packed wall of rock, but I love a continuous jumble of corals where you can't really see anything else.

My favorite reef pics are the ones with a million critters all just carpeting the landscape jockeying for position. I just want to see the Bommie, not the raked Feng shui sand :D whatever in between. There are some pics in the Veron books that are solid corals and they are breathtaking to me.


Another thing I am going to try to do more which NOBODY does (except Ryan Baker) is to have several pieces or patches of the same coral stretching across the tank. Most tanks have one of everything spaced precisely and it looks weird (to me)

Actually, I think I recall Bomber having several pieces of that same staghorn throughout his starboard tank which also created the effect that I like(in a sparser sort of way).

If you look at a real reef, or a forest or a mangy weed field for that matter, you will notice that the mix is of several types of organisms but there are several or many individuals of each type and only here and there, a stray loner appears in the mix.

Has anyone else ever noticed this? Once you do, you will realize it is the norm rather than the exception in nature.

Anyway, I never claimed to be very good at following the pack :D

[sinned]

Guys and Gals-
Are you telling me this tank, doesn't have that W-O-W!! factor.
http://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5265

[pbanda]

I like tanks that look like a real reef. I am not currently happy with mine, but that is a different story.
I have diving in Tahiti on my Honeymoon and I have never seen so many SPS packed in one spot... that is what I eventually want my tank to look like.

Bomber... your second pic looks more like artwork than a tank!! I like it cause it is different... but it is not for me :)

I guess the old expression beauty is in the eye of the beholder applies to our tanks!!!

Cheers,
pbanda

[rbaker]

I hate a reef that's jammed to the gills with corals...:rolleyes:

http://www.ryansreef.com/Reefpics/rs2.jpg

:D

Ryan

[Piero]

i like the "fruitstand" look less and less and appreciate well designed open rockwork more and more, as long as it still appears natural. I'm also goin with a very shallow 1" or less sandbed these days...just for looks.

Bomber: are you kidding? i really liked it before...lol :)

[Frick-n-Frags]

Can't touch that forest of green Sinularias. Boo-wahhh!!!

Yeah fish2223, that is sweeet!!!

I rest my case.......:D

[DJ88©]

Angela,

:wavehand:

Welcome back. :)


Nice tank Ryan.. Green.. mmmmm..

[Ereefic]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

We had the rock wall in our 55 and had it pretty packed, although when we upgraded to a 120, we opted for a little more open space and creative aquascaping, still packed with corals.

When there are so many beautiful corals, and your tank is already how you want it, and you see something you really like, you'll find room for it. :) Since we set-up our 120, we've added about 50lbs. more rock because we were running out of room to put new corals. It's still not a rock wall, but still a nicely aquascaped tank IMO.

Oh, so I guess I vote for "Pack it in!!" :D

[Newreeflady]

Hi everyone! Thanks for the welcome backs! :)

Bomber, I really like the look of your tank, ... beauty with space. Ahh, so nice.....


Rbaker, those are some gorgeous healthy specimens you have there! ! The tank itself is just too busy for me, but as always, to each his/her own. Definitely love the corals! Looks like you're doing very well with the purple gorg, too. That's a neat coral.

I can't wait to move so I can setup something new. I'm looking at trying to get into UCSD and moving out to San Diego. Once i'm settled, i'll probably start setting up something nice on loan $$. lol! I tried nano-reefing, but it just got too packed. :p

Thanks for the replies as always. Interesting to hear all of the perspectives. I know that many like the packed coral look, many like the packed rock look, and looks like some also like a bit more space. Of course, each type of tank has it's own beauty.

Angela.

[Stoli]

Great thread idea. I guess I'm in the middle of the road (facing down an oncoming truck). I like the rock work to be more open but I also like a significant variety of corals. In my little office tank (33 gallon bow), I have probably 25 different acro species. I like to think of it like a bonsai tree. Trim a bit here, clip there, etc. When I set up my new home tank (had to tear down 90 before move), it will be a long shallow tank (8'x2.5'x18" lwh). Goal will be to set up a couple of different biotopes (lower flow/higher flow, etc). I don't intend it to look like the ocean. I do intend the corals to be healthy and colorful. But variety is the spice of life and I also love wide open tanks with loads of swimming room and a few magnificent corals. Isn't this hobby great?

[technoshaman]

Well I decided I am going to do some subtractive aquascaping on Monday to conincide with a partial reef breakdown (have been trying to catch a spawn of satan dottyback for 2 months with no luck).

Tastes differ but I have gone the route of adding just one more coral or piece of live rock to make space for more corals and it's out of control!!!!

But to each their own - I'll post before and after pics.

[Newreeflady]

Isn't this hobby great?

Absolutely!



Tastes differ but I have gone the route of adding just one more coral or piece of live rock to make space for more corals and it's out of control!!!! But to each their own - I'll post before and after pics.

Can't wait to see them! Post to this thread if you remember, it's hard to keep track of the bazillion photos of peoples tanks that get posted everywhere:) This way I can search for things i've posted to.

Thx!
Angela.

[Ron]

fish2232,

Yes, that tank does make me say WOW. However, I don't find it nearly as appealing as something with more open swimming space. It is quite an impressive collection though.

Ron
:strooper:

[dc]

Hey Angie, did you rejoin us? I kind of like the cluttered look myself. It's all in how it's done too.:D

[guitarfish]

I was thinking my next tank would be simpler. 250g, bare bottom, no background. Right in the center, one anemone, and one percula clown. That's it. Whatyya think? :lol: Sorry guys, couldn't resist. It's really past my bedtime.

Seriously, I can't imagine keeping up with the bioload and requirements of those jammed systems. It's amazing people do it successfully, but I don't see myself getting there. With a lightly stocked system, your livestock selections require more forethought, since the quantity is going to be limited.

[bergzy]

while i think tanks jammed to the gills (:D) with corals and the kitchen sink can be and is visually stunning, i opted for something in the middle where there is a lot of corals, clams, gary colemans but with sufficient space between them not just to grow out but i like to see a clear border between the critters.

while i love the look of totm's...they seem to have an underlying theme of every possible space being filled with something or another.

the good thing about having a really full tank? it only takes an eyedropper to do water changes! yeah, it's past my bedtime too!

[tatoofr]

Rbaker.... Your tanks too stuffed, I'll have to take one of those green sini's off your hands! Nice tank. I notoiced on your web that they weren't that green. What do you think colored them up so nicely? I started my reef more open but every thing grows so fast its a constant chore of pruning. see my web.......

Frank.

[RicksReefs]

hey angela, welcome back!!
i knew you wouldn't be gone too long ;)

[kevinpo]

Hi Angela,
I definitely wish I had gone with less rock and will do so in the future. Reasoning being that it gives the corals more growth room. At an average of 1" a month for most corals in 5 years that's 60" so it's very difficult to not have a solid reef over time. I started with almost all frags and now one of them is 30" wide and 21" tall. I have a few colonies that I've had for 7+ years and because of the frequent pruning they look unnatural, kind of thick and stumpy. So I have given up trying to prevent them from growing into one large coral so now the 850 lbs of rock is pretty much just one large piece with the corals cementing them together.

Regards,
Kevin
PS: Nice to see you back :)

Jerel,
I like your tank both ways. You should have two
:lol:

[David M]

Well I didn't read the whole thread but I get the idea. It's all opinion and preference of course, but I personally can't stand to see those tanks with a hodge-podge mix of 30 different tiny corals, it just doesn't look natural at all.

Another thing I am going to try to do more which NOBODY does (except Ryan Baker) is to have several pieces or patches of the same coral stretching across the tank. Most tanks have one of everything spaced precisely and it looks weird (to me)

That's what I do, very few species but large colonies of each, sort of create zones for each coral. I lived in the Caribbean for 12 years, that is closer to what it looks like.

[Flipturn88]

I think the less corals you have, the more you appreciate and care for each one. You "bond" more with the inhabitants, and regard each one as important.

JMHO,
Kayla

[guitarfish]

Check out David Playfair's Mistress Reef (http://mistressreef.homestead.com/), and awesome 120g setup. I don't know guys... I think it's pretty daggone beautiful. Not everyone can, or even should, have a setup like this. But I'm filled with awe when I see them.

[Paul B]

My problem is that I have been in this hobby so long and I have been diving so long that I constantly find stuff that I have to put in the tank. I collected most of my rocks and they are all large and they were a pain to carry back from where ever I collected them. I also have bottles, chains and all kinds of other (junk) interesting things that I pick up diving. I recently cleaned my reef and removed ten gallons of rock which did not make too much of a dent. In the picture it looks like the tank is jammed with coral but very little of it is sitting on the sand and there are huge passages all over the place. I have no small rocks so the spaces are not filled up.
Bomber I love the look in your first picture. Sorry.

[technoshaman]

I broke down and rearranged my rockwork - I had to catch a couple of very wily fish so it all worked out.

In addition:

- Removed a few large soft corals , trying to reduce chemical warfare somewhat.

- Removed all fish except for my regal tang, rainford goby and bicolor blenny - am trading/selling the rest. Will also move the fathead anthias from my 29 over in a week or two.

- Removed close to 100lbs of liverock from tank and refugium and sold it - can hardly tell !

- Replaced all lost water with Oceanic salt mix.

- Made more open space on sandbed and stacked rock to leave more of it open underneath.

- Made my rockwork almost back how it was when I originally set the tank up last summer with a gorge in the middle.

Granted it looked pretty good before but I am going for a low bioload and a predominantly stony coral tank. I think I fell victim to the fruit stand look in a big way - I guess I want to have fewer corals and let them grow in now. Also noticed all that rock I crammed in collected a lot of detritus , I may add a couple of turbelles to get even more current in the tank - My new rockwork has a lot more space than before - I netted most out and am running a 50 micron bag on my return to get some other. I'll break out the diatom filter tomorrow to get some more. I can definitely see the value in a barebottom tank though after looking at all the crud collected in the nooks and crannies - maybe that Bomber guy is on to something!

Regardless pulling the sandbed out I'll save for summer when I don't have classes if I go that route.

Original tank a few weeks after setup:

http://www.maast.org/albums/MikeP/215full.sized.jpg

Tank this morning before the great fish hunt:

http://www.maast.org/albums/MikeP/215before.sized.jpg

Tank after getting most of the stonies back in - still have a lot of reguling for all the frags I made unintentionally!

http://www.maast.org/albums/MikeP/215new.sized.jpg

I'll post another pic tomorrow after everything clears up and I finish moving corals around. Overall I'm pleased with how it turned out and now I just have to resist the temptation to buy every cool piece of live rock or coral I see and wedge it in my tank :)

[Thunnus]

Your tank looks alot better. It looked good before though. This morning I put LR in a 80 that I just set up and I did a similar arrangment.

[Algae Blenny]

This tank is very interesting:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/august2003/aquarium.htm

Its really cool, and is definately not set up the way most of us set up our tanks.

[Newreeflady]

technoshaman, I REALLY like the new look! I can't wait to see it when the silt and detrius clears up. The way you have arranged the rock leaves open space, but without the empty look. It seems to create more depth than the rock wall look, in my eyes anyhow. Thanks for posting! Looking fwd to the next picture:)

Ricksreef, yeah, it's only a matter of time, ya know? I had to shut down my larger reef because even though i'd done a lot of homework, many things I did not anticipate ended up happening and to modify the system was going to be more work than it was worth. Things i'll do differently include drilling/plumbing, possibly hanging pendants rather than enclosed canopy, no or very little sandbed, less rock, less types of coral, and will not go with less than 18" of depth front to back. 12" is just not enough room to work with. So, a new project is a long way off since i'm going to be moving,... but I think my next system will outshine my first by at least 500%. :D

You guys are great. It is so nice to be welcomed back here ... I think i'm gonna cry now. hehe. :p Seriously, thanks! It's nice to be back around.

Angela.

[dendronepthya]

It's because you are cute.

[Newreeflady]

Damn! And all this time I thought it was my superior intellect;) :spin2: ... Thanks for breaking my heart:( j/k :P

Angela.

[Agu]

Hey Angela welcome back !!

[welcome]

I feel like I've been the voice in the wilderness when it comes to overstocked tanks :rolleyes: . Live rock belongs in a sump with just enough in the tank to provide places for corals,no "fruitstands" for me.

jmo,

Agu

[RicksReefs]

Originally posted by dendronepthya
It's because you are cute.

& you had the nicest buttfish around too. :lol:

[Sid]

& you had the nicest buttfish around too.

I had forgotten all about that, dam that was funny :lmao:

[CaptiveReef]

Always keep in mind, that corals grow. So when you start adding corals S P A C E them out . I know at 1st it looks like deep pockets, but in time the corals will F I L L these spots. By doing it this way you will be limited to the amount of corals you can add. So the tank won't be crammed.

:) CaptiveReef

[pbanda]

I need a bigger tank cause there isn't enough room in my 55... anyone want to donate to the Pbanda New Tank Fund?

Here is a pic of mine... I don't think I like it anymore... :)
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/amalinow/smDec_27_2003.JPG

[Medaka]

Thats why FOWLR looks best.

[Flanders]

I've given this a lot of thought, and I honestly can't say I like one look over the other. Variety is what makes this hobby so interesting. I really respect the restraint some people show when stocking their tanks, like when an artist knows when to stop working on a painting.

[Frick-n-Frags]

technoshaman, those pics made me have to take some pics of my SPS tank which i had to redo because the bulkhead was leaking.
It just looks so weird now. How ironic.

Now I have the ho hum rock wall going (intentionally). I will have to make a temp background, it's been a while since I could see out the back :D

http://www.rusynyk.com/coral/SPSredo1.JPG

At least I put a couple of Feng Shui bonzaii trees out in the raked glass.

http://www.rusynyk.com/coral/SPSredo2feng.JPG

Here is the shelf for frags which I may put a piece of eggcrate back onto and also some zoos as throwrugs on the cold floor.

http://www.rusynyk.com/coral/SPSredo3shelf.JPG

The frag on the piece of plastic is getting pretty righteous. It used to hang onthe front so I couldn't even really see it clearly. The only bummer about this is no cleaners can get to it and the algae gets gross.

http://www.rusynyk.com/coral/SPSredo4Acro.JPG

[technoshaman]

Heh Frick, I kept adding more rock to make space for more corals and it got be a never ending cycle! The worst part now is I got over 500 bucks in credit for the 100lbs of rock and a few corals from the LFS and will have to avoid the temptation to fill up the tank with new corals and just let mine grow in.

[Frick-n-Frags]

Just leave enough room for that "To die for" coral that comes along every so often :D

[Crawdad1]

Originally posted by Algae Blenny
This tank is very interesting:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/august2003/aquarium.htm

Its really cool, and is definately not set up the way most of us set up our tanks.

I agree 100% This is the look I would like my tank to have.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/images/august2003/Center_right_080302.jpg

[Denzo]

Well...personally I like the "semi" look not too open, but not densely packed. Aquascaping ideas are much eassier with larger tanks. When you have a smaller tank, aquascaping is pretty much limited, unless you get very creative.

The bottom line is "Beauty of the reef tank lies in the eyes of the beholder." Or "Different strokes for different folks!"

Beauty of a reef tank can be accomplished by many ways, not just the numbers of corals or the amount of live rock you have in a tank. Beauty is a vision, that I am trying my best copy, but has yet to succeed. That's what keeps me going and striving for more.

Just my thoughts.

[Crawdad1]

Denzo I agree with you also. Most people do have smaller tank and the limits them quite a bit, and dont get me wrong their tanks look great. I myself now that I'm going onto my 4th and 5th tank prefer an open look thats all.

[CedarReefer]

I started doing that about a month ago. I broke apart my orange cap and placed it in several places in my 125. I also have a couple of yellow chip type sps that's in 2 different places. It'll be interesting to see how they do since they are in different lighting and water flow.

Sean



[QUOTE][i]


Another thing I am going to try to do more which NOBODY does (except Ryan Baker) is to have several pieces or patches of the same coral stretching across the tank. Most tanks have one of everything spaced precisely and it looks weird (to me)

[technoshaman]

Things have had a few weeks to settle down and for me to clean tank up some. Took off black background and decided I really like the look. Also added a magnificent foxface I couldn't pass up :)

http://www.maast.org/albums/MikeP/fulltank_001.sized.jpg

http://www.maast.org/albums/MikeP/newleft_001.sized.jpg

http://www.maast.org/albums/MikeP/newright.sized.jpg

Dunno I think it looks better - I am going to leave a few spaces for some interesting sps frags but am going to keep spreading out frags of what I have for now and let it fill in.

[dennis_said]

They look good, every tank is different.. the coral selection is very important IMO

[addo]

fengshui (spelling?) is the way to go, if you ask me!

[skattabrain]

algae blenny... that tank was awesome.

to each his own, while a coral stuffed tank is impressive to us reefers... and it mesmerizes me when i see those shots... easpecialy sp stanks, i think space is key to an elegant looking system.

the wall of rocks approach is boring, at best, i think it's ugly. i would love to have a cube tank so i could just have a peak in the center of the system.

but here is my system, i chose the more space... and my fish love it.

higher res shot - http://skattabrain.com/reef/images/02-04/02-21-04.jpg

http://skattabrain.com/reef/images/02-04/02-21-04-small.jpg

not too much space... but not a pile of rocks either.

[skattabrain]

technoshaman.... very nice! way better, nice job.

[skylsdale]

I think one of the largest problems is that people don't put enough foresight into their reefs. Too many people set their LR up as if they're going to see every miniscule placement of rubble a year later. Then they add corals...but instead of trying to imagine how much growing the coral will do and how much room they should leave, they get uncomfortable with the space and fill it with a handful of 1" frags. Then you just have a huge tank full of frags that are almost exactly the same size and space apart...and it makes your eyes bleed to look at. Just let things grow.