Need help with DIY 150 Stand

[Pretzeldude]

Hi,

Before you read on... my main question is about joinery. What is a good (and relatively easy) corner joining method for a wood tank stand?

My tank will be 60x24x24 In-wall. I plan to oversize the stand a bit to have some room around the edges of the tank to put things on or stand on. So I'm thinking 72x30 for the "top view" dimensions.

I have access to my father-in-law's workshop, with some basic woodworking tools... tablesaw, bandsaw, jigsaw etc. But none of the really fancy stuff.

I'm planning on using 4x4's for the legs and probably top frame, and support with 3/4 ply on top and some on side to prevent shearing.

However, this is as far as I am on this... What is a good way to work the joining of the top/bottom frames and corners? I don't want to get too fancy, but don't want to put the full load on the screws/glue.

Can anyone recommend a good corner/join method? With pictures or diagram would be great as I'm a newbie woodworker! :)

[ErikS]

I don't have a diagram but it's pretty easy to explain.

1. Build two "boxes". This is two squares of 2x material with the "2" side facing up - like a picture frame. These pieces can be butt jointed & nailed or screwed.

2. Put the legs between the two frames. The legs should be set so that they span the joints in the frames. Attach w/ nails, screws, or plates. Depending on the material you used to make the frames you will/won't need to put in a center brace. IMHO w/ a 60" span anything less than 2x8 will require a center brace.

3. Sheath w/ your choice of material. An FYI on this, plywood as thin as 1/4" will prevent racking (you couldn't rack a 2x box sheathed in 1/4" plywood if you stood it on end and parked a car on the corner).

LunchBucket has a nice design that can adapted to any size tank. Here's a pic from his website (hope he doesn't mind)

LunchBucket's stand (http://www.lunchbucket.org/images/Cube%20tank/DSCN0660.JPG)

The only change you would want to make is to move the leg so that it spans the joint on the top frame (in this pic it would be moving the closest leg to the right so it's flush with the corner of the frame)

[slfCaptain]

When scalling up LunchBucket'e design do you think it is necessary to add cross bracing?

[Pretzeldude]

ErikS - Thanks, that gives me something to go on! I'm probably just over-thinking this, but I wanted to have a good plan before I go to home depot.

[ErikS]

When scalling up LunchBucket'e design do you think it is necessary to add cross bracing
As long as it's sheathed then no, cross bracing is not necessary.

I did forget to mention that if it's an acrylic tank then you will need some extra support in the top frame as these tanks require support across the entire bottom (glass only uses edge support).

Basically you'd need something like this [__|__|__] (fill in the top piece). Then sheath the top of this w/ plywood (like a floor in a house).

Just go to your LFS & see the stands, you'll be amazed at how little wood is used - it's all in putting lumber in the right place. For example, 2x4 can't carry all that much load horizontally but on end they can carry a huge load.

[slfCaptain]

I was thinking of using a similiar design for a 90g but the skin/sheething would be decorative and not supportive. In that case should some bracing be used?

[capescuba]

I have just had a custom stand made for a glass 210 and as ErikS said you would be amazed at how little wood is really needed.

Around the edges of the frame, the wood is ~ 3", there are no cross braces. I was talking to a carpenter / reefkeeper a few weeks ago and he was telling me he couldn't even imagine a tank big enough to need 4x4 to support it because of the strength of properly braced frames.

[slfCaptain]

Sorry if I am hijacking the thread. Just have so many questions.

I looked at the stand on http://www.cnidarianreef.com/capstand.cfm
and he doesn't have any cross bracing for a 180g. I guess I should build one and see how strong it is. It looks real easy to build.

[5y5tem 0verload]

Here is my thread with my 90G stand. The verticles are only 2x4's but it still may provide some ideas. IMHO it's WAY overbuilt. Lesson learned for next time. However you can never be too careful with that much water. My $0.02.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=2504085

[esox v]

I built one for my 125 a while back. I would not use 4x4's they tend to twist and warp. I think your much better off with 2- 2x4 nailed together. I've seen lots of diy stands made with treated 4x4's and they contain all sorts of nasty chemicals, arsenic being one.
If you sheath it, you can use the ply to help square the stand up.The edges on finish grade ply tends to be straight and square. I sheathed the back and both sides of mine and left the front open. I built an oak face frame for the front and divided it into 3 equal open cubes.
Test fit your tank first!!! Before FULLY installing your top piece of 3/4. With a belt sander you can get your framework perfect before installing the top piece. That way your tank will be supported its full length and width, without the use of shims or floor leveler.
If your tank is drilled and you use a 2x4 on edge for your top frame.Be sure it's not in the way of the hole you need to drill for your bulkhead.
Almost forgot construction adhesive(or glue), will help to lock everything together. It's a must when installing the sheathing to the frame.
I'd park my truck on my 2x4 stand as a demo if it didn't already have a glass box on it. V

[ErikS]

5y5tem 0verload's got it. That's what I call the classic "RC stand", it's simple & effective. It can be scaled to fir any size tank. The funny part is that the inner 2x4's aren't even necessary (they're actually doing little) - only the "outer" ones between the two frames are carrying the load.

I'm not picking on his design, it's the same way I built mine - lol. I think that shows the amateur in us, it feels a bit rickety w/o the inner 2x4 - we forget that the sheathing will take care of that - lol.

[5y5tem 0verload]

ErikS -

Amateur. Isn't that the truth.. lol

I actually learned alot being this was my first stand. Mental notes have been made for the next one.

[ErikS]

I actually learned alot being this was my first stand

LMAO - Same here, it wasn't until I went to put a sump in that I realized that:

A)The inner supports weren't needed

B) That I had a hard time finding a sump to fit as the inner 2x4 were taking up precious real estate.

Oh well, overkill never hurts anything - lol - & learning is always a good thing.

[5y5tem 0verload]

ErikS -

I didn't think the middle verticle supports were necessary, but my wife did. Sooooo.. they were put in.

I, however, did make sure I had enuf room for my sump and fuge even with my interior verticles. Planning ahead does help a little ;)

[Pretzeldude]

5x5... saw the comment by your wife about parking TWO cars on it! LOL too funny. I'm going to print out your post and use it as a guide. I might leave the center vert support in, but secure it with a T bracket so that it can be removed as needed.

[5y5tem 0verload]

Pretz -

That's a good idea about the T bracket. *Makes another mental note*

I went ahead and glued and screwed my verticles in because my sump and fuge are each only 20G tanks so there will be no problems sliding them under the stand as long as my doors are big enough. *Makes yet another mental note to start writing all this stuff down*

[ErikS]

Planning ahead does help a little
What's that? :D

Actually is was before I discovered RC & didn't even know that somthing called a "sump" existed (now there's poor planning - lol).

[5y5tem 0verload]

Well not knowing is much different than not planning :D

Although both can be detrimental when referring to our hobby. (aka: Addiction. Desire. Habit. Craving. Compulsion. Dependence. Need. Crutch. Obsession. Infatuation. Well you get the idea)

[jglover]

prezeldude. Fist of all IMO 4*4's are highly overrated they don't hold up as well and they aren't as strong as 2*6's if you wan't proof look at a house still in construction they don't use 4*4's. I would reccomend using 2*6's oh and they're cheaper too. you would need 4 2*6's at 60 inches 4 at 13 inches that's because you'll subtract the two 2*6 totaling 11 inches FYI 2*6 are really 1.5*5.5. and you would need several pieces at 21 these will be your vertical supports and I would use two nailed in an L shape for each corner at least two to attach your doors to and probably 5 along the back wall you will have plenty of support for the weight it will hold your car if you need it to. If you wan't to make it 72*30 you dimensions will be 4@72 4@(30-11) 19 and alot at (24-3)21 probably at least 17 would be my reccomendation.
any ?'s PM me

[jglover]

Oh and on the center veritcal supports you can turn the 90 degrees so they don't take up much space they do offer alot of support if there is ever any motion i.e. earthquake or fat mother in law walking nearby. L support better and are easier to make than T's and take up less room.

[slfCaptain]

I have been thinking about a slight modification to 5y5temOverload's design. I was thinking about eliminating all the 'inside' 2X4, just keep the ones that sit on the bottom frame. To secure the vertical members to the top and bottom frame I would use galvanized brackets ( sort of like joist hangers but they do come in a variety of configurations for a variety of applications). Do you DIY'ers think that will be strong enough? Any possibility saltwater could corrode the galvanized brackets? I was also thinking about spraying the brackets with a rust proof paint for extra security. So what do you think?

[5y5tem 0verload]

slfCaptain -
That will definately be an idea for my next stand. Just make sure you seal the top that the tank sits on to the skin and i don't think there would be an issue.

As far as being strong enough, after you add the skin it'll be plenty strong enough IMO.

Heck if it didn't take an act of congress i'd do that to my current stand since I haven't skined it yet.

[slfCaptain]

Originally posted by 5y5tem 0verload

Just make sure you seal the top that the tank sits on to the skin and i don't think there would be an issue.


Sorry but I don't understand what do you mean by '...sits on to the skin...'. Can you explain?

I was thinking about making the skin non-structural. So the skin won't offer any additional strenght. Do you think the strenght added by the skin is needed?

Thanks,

[5y5tem 0verload]

Steve,

My apologies. I should have been more clear on that point. My tank will be sitting on a piece of 3/4" plywood and my sheathing (skin) will be 3" taller than the plywood top to cover the plastic trim on the tank and to cover the side of the sandbed. I hate the look of sand pressed against glass. If you seal the edge of the plywood top where it meets the skin, water moisture shouldn't be an issue.

Ok i just realized after typing all that if you have a sump/fuge in ur stand your still going to have moisture that may effect the brackets, but I guess like you said, "I was also thinking about spraying the brackets with a rust proof paint for extra security."

I think that'd work fine, but then again i'm a newb. So those with more experience are more than welcome to chime in.

[bluetropic]

TIP use a galvinised primer or paint. Tremclad makes some. Regular rust paint or any paint for that mater does not bond to galvinised metal. :hammer:

[slfCaptain]

Thanks for mentioning that bluetropic. I hadn't thought of that. I found references on the internet that saltwater will corrode the metal underneath the galvanization. But the galvanization has to be rubbed or worn off first and a lot of contact with saltwater. So it probably wouldn't hurt to add an extra layer of protection.


I think I am going to build the stand and test it in my garage for a little while. I'll takes lots of pictures.

[5y5tem 0verload]

Pictures are good! :)

[bluetropic]

Cool and good luck. I forgot to mention you should probably paint the whole bracket first.

[slfCaptain]

Planned to.

However, I think this stand will cost more than I expected. If I go with what I am thinking I will have to pay about $25 more for all the brackets. Still a lot cheaper than a store bought.

[firemouth4416]

Tthe best advise that I could gove is to go look at a Oceanic stand at a LFS. They use hi grade plywood and hardly any regular wood. I think the key is that they dont have a few screws holding things together. They have the entire seam glued and probly biscuit joined

[Pretzeldude]

Well - I finally got it finished. Turned out pretty good - thanks for all the ideas!

Stand Pic 1 (http://home.ptd.net/~tsdsld/main/reef/stand1.jpg)

Stand Pic 2 (http://home.ptd.net/~tsdsld/main/reef/stand2.jpg)

[5y5tem 0verload]

Looks good! Nice job :beer:

[Pretzeldude]

Well, I used your design as a guide - so thanks!