Commercial Posting

[Antimony1019]

I want to start out by saying that I am not trying to start a "war" about commercial posting, just bringing up a few points which I have noticed over the following months, and trying to generate healthy conversation about it.

People on RC know what the rules are about commercial posting (unless you're new to the board) and for the most part these rules seem to be followed (with a few exceptions I've noticed), so this is not what my gripe is about. The thing I have been noticing the most is people trying to get around the rules of commercial posting by either:

a) posting as if they were a customer in the store (I'm not talking about the most recent thread where this was an issue, I have seen it in a couple instances in the past) or
b) getting a relative, partner, friend etc. to promote the store.

While neither of these are violations of the RC policy of commercial posting, it seems a cheap (and I'm not talking money) way of getting a business advertised. I feel that if you have a personal relationship with a local LFS owner or employee (a relationship that exists outside of being friendly and doing business with the store) then it is not proper to come onto RC and start a thread about how great this or that store is or talk about all the great things they got in this week, whether they are your mother, father, brother, sister, partner, friend, roommate, well you get the point...

I'm sure many people on RC know that I have a "personal" relationship with Mike at Aqua Addicts, and even though I have some kind of vested interest in the subject my views about the subject would not change regardless of my association with Mike. Even though it wouldn't be in violation of the RC commercial posting rules I would never come onto this board and promote AA, or talk about all the great things the store has to offer, because to me that would be close enough to being a commercial post and violating the rules of RC, and I was a customer at AA before I had any kind of association with Mike.

I'm not trying to tick people off or anything, I guess I just felt like ****ing and moaning and wanted to see what other people might think about the subject...

[Scuba_Dave]

J/K:

Well I'll just have to keep that %^%$$#!!! Mike as my enemy & the rest of the *&^%^$%&^(%^%$%$#W%!! LFS people too.

Just so I can post when I find something great or am treated right :D

I understand the thread topic tho :(

[bdr127]

So with your post mentioning Aqua Addicts, are you one of the people you are referring to?... lol.... j/k :p :lol:

[drmooncricket]

My understanding is it is a very thin line and anything you think might not be a good idea usually isn’t a good idea... Everyone here has a store they like and would do anything to see that store do well, some people post like NASCAR drivers when talking about a store, “Yea, my tanks doing well and its all thanks to my crew over there at Joe’s fish, if it wasn’t for the excellent output of my XYZ fish pump and the pinpoint results Mary’s test kits it wouldn’t be possible.�… While I might be biased to a store (because my room mate works there) I have no vested interest, I get no discount (how much does that suck) and buy stuff from other places as well… if u see something that u think is out of line call someone on it… a coward will sit back and wait for something to be said then jump on the band wagon…

[Antimony1019]

Hey Dave,
I know you were just messing around, but it made me think of a point to further clarify what I am saying...
If someone has a relationship with a LFS owner/employee which consists of spending time with that person outside of the store atmosphere on a regular basis, of course they are going to get preferential treatment and be totally satisfied with their experience there, that's just a simple fact of life. I'm by no means trying to discourage people from posting about great experiences they have at a LFS, but if you know and spend time with an LFS owner/employee, outside of the store, on a regular basis of course you'll get preferred treatment and be totally satisfied with your experience, that's a given (in most cases anyway :) )... Of course everyone develops relationships with the people who run the LSF, especially if you're in there all the time, but there is a difference between that and knowing someone outside of their duties as an LFS owner/employee...
:)
Steph

[spectrum]

Antimony writes:

I'm sure many people on RC know that I have a "personal" relationship with Mike at Aqua Addicts,

And still we don't think less of you for that, see what a bunch of nice people we are :)



spectrum

[Antimony1019]

Hey drmooncricket,
I hear what you are saying, and totally understand your point. I have no vested interest in AA either, but the fact that I have a relationship with Mike now gives me a personal interest in AA, probably more so than most of the customers who shop in there on a regular basis, and I guess that was another part of the point I was trying to make by starting this conversation.
:)
Steph

[Antimony1019]

Originally posted by spectrum


And still we don't think less of you for that, see what a bunch of nice people we are :)



spectrum [/B]


;), Thanks spectrum , I appreciate that :). Everyone on here is really nice, I'm certainly not disputing that...

[Scuba_Dave]

Well cancel that, you get preferential treatment? I'm going to have to cosy up to that ugly sucka. I need a bottle of Tequila 1st.

I do understand what you are saying. I have seen the posts that I think you are referring to (My name is Dave, I'm here all day). I know (think) one person, Chris Mu, was kicked off for (possibly) crossing the line. But he was an employee.
A very fine line to walk, and I know shop owners must get "upset" (irratated?) when one store receives praise in a thread vs another. Especially if it seems to come from a relationship that is as you described.
Not sure if there is a clear cut answer. I'm kinda shy, so haven't become good friends with any of the LFS owners (so tell Mike to be gentle).
Plus haven't had the time/tank/$$ to buy much.
I would hope that we will all be treated right, so we'll be able to post great things about all the stores we visit!!

[Jim Tansey]

I have read this post three times, I guess it only makes sense to those who know what your talking about.

Regards,

Jim

[Antimony1019]

Hey Dave :),
I think it is aggravating for many of the shop owners because whether the poster realizes it or not, by posting what a store has to offer they are soliciting business to that store, not only for what is being advertised but also for what that person may buy once they are in the store that was not advertised. When someone with a personal interest in the store (more than what a loyal customer would have) makes a post I think it can be considered a step beyond a happy customer posting, and although this is within the lines of the RC rules I think it's a cheap (once again not money) way of getting the name of your or your buddy's store out therem, along with what they have in stock. For the most part when a happy customer posts I don't think they start getting into what other stock the store has to offer, usually it's a picture and a "Look what I got at xxx today!!" type of deal.
Once again, I'm just trying to generate conversation, not trying to tick people off...
Dave, I'll let Mike know to go easy on you. And you'd probably both need a bottle of tequila to cozy up and get in good, so bring two bottles ;)
:)
Steph

[Antimony1019]

Hey Jim,
Sorry for the confusion, I guess you'd have to have noticed a few previous threads to understand what I'm complaining about, sorry about that...
:)
Steph

[Dubge]

Man I hate to ask this but I was just wondering where Chris worked?

thanks
Ray

[drmooncricket]

little shop of pets, portsmouth

[drmooncricket]

Originally posted by Antimony1019
Hey Jim,
Sorry for the confusion, I guess you'd have to have noticed a few previous threads to understand what I'm complaining about, sorry about that...
:)
Steph

so you are complaining...

go into details please, who's doing what and why is that getting you upset...

[Nocturnal]

Originally posted by drmooncricket
so you are complaining...

go into details please, who's doing what and why is that getting you upset...

I think you need to relax and go back to work. Why does this post bother you so much?

[drmooncricket]

Originally posted by Nocturnal
I think you need to relax and go back to work. Why does this post bother you so much?

shouldn't you be at the bar right now? or taking a nap old man?

na, im just really bored, the server with our data base is down today they only things that are working are e mail and internet...

[Nocturnal]

Wish I was at a bar, in fact, I'm leaving in a few minutes and just may go to one.

[Antimony1019]

Hey drmooncricket,
Like I said when I first started this post, I'm not trying to start a war, and by bringing out the names of the people who I have noticed doing what I mentioned, it would only start something which would get ugly fast. Like both you and Dave stated "it's a thin line", and there probably is no clear cut right or wrong answer, which is why it would be unfair to single out any individuals especially since what they are doing technically is not breaking any rules. I didn't start the post to place blame on anyone (especially since they technically are not doing anything for which they should be blamed-just to reiterate my point). I started this thread in hopes of keeping things civil and having a conversation about something I know many people have noticed recently... And yes I am complaining, but I'm complaining about the method being used by some people, not necessarily the people themselves. I have no problems with any of the people here on RC and wish not to take it to that level by bringing out names of people and turning this into a he said she said type of thing. I just wanted to spark a healthy conversation about a method I have noticed recently being employed about promoting a LFS and what people's thoughts on it may be...
:)
Steph

[drmooncricket]

Well someone questioned a mistake I made last week on RC and I am making sure that this isn’t in reference to that...

[Antimony1019]

If you read my first post that I made on this thread I made mention to the fact that it was unrelated to a recent post (you're mistake being that post). I also said that I have observed several different posts from different people, so you can calm down, this was not an attack on you, or the mistake post you made last week. It is just a general observation which I have made about a trend that seems to be rising as of lately, with several different posts, not just one...

[drmooncricket]

cool...

[objectfire]

Originally posted by Antimony1019
Hey Dave :),
I think it is aggravating for many of the shop owners because whether the poster realizes it or not, by posting what a store has to offer they are soliciting business to that store, not only for what is being advertised but also for what that person may buy once they are in the store that was not advertised.


Free speech and a free market go together. I think there is no clear line to be drawn here following your logic. The RC policy regarding commercial posts is simple and clear (even though I disagree with it). You have to cross a very clear line, from what I have seen.

As an aside, after observing recent events on RC, I would suggest that BRS needs a supplementary members only forum on its own website, in addition to RC, where BRS sets the rules for discussion.

This could be used to discuss BRS business (which seems to be held behind closed doors, possibly due to the inconvenience of no open forum?) and to provide a place where BRS commercial sponsors could post information freely in a dedicated area without fear of reprisal.

A forum service such as yahoo groups could be leveraged for such a purpose.

[Antimony1019]

objectfire,
You are absolutely correct, free speech and a free market go together, and I am all for the Boston Reefers starting a open forum where people are free to advertise in whatever ways they choose. What I guess bothers me is that some honest people abide by RC's rules and don't exploit them, while others find ways around the rules to get information out there about their store. If RC didn't have the commercial posting rule this would be a mute issue, I'm all for free advertising and promotion. I don't know exactly what the logic is behind no commercial posting on RC, but it does exist and I think it is aggravating to the people abiding by the rules and accepting them, while others are finding ways around the rules. I know there is no way for RC to monitor when this is going on, so I'm certainly not expecting anything to really be done about this. I just wanted to start a conversation about something that I've been thinking about for a while now and to get other people's opinions on it.
:)
Steph

[Scuba_Dave]

Actually you can post commercially on RC, but you have to be a sponsor as I understand. This board costs quite a bit to run. Members who pay a yearly fee "I support RC" logo & sponsors who pay to be a sponsor are allowed to post. To what extent I have never checked.
I have probabaly posted at some point about buying something at a store and saying, better hurry only "x" left!!
One thing I can remember is a dime size Hippo Tang, but I'm sure there were others.
It's kind of hard for RC to police all of the forums alll of the time. But I think they do a pretty good job. And there is a button "report this post to a moderator". Not sure if that is anomonous. I've never used it, never wanted to bother them, figure they have enough to keep them busy.
Tho I have been involved in threads where they have stepped in & asked people to calm down.
I try not to cross the line...there have to be some rules.
Imagine if commercial posting were alllowed?
Imagine how many people/companies/E-bayers would be posting junk for sale on all of these threads!!??
It would be a nightmare, spamland....

[Nanook]

Originally posted by Scuba_Dave
Actually you can post commercially on RC, but you have to be a sponsor as I understand.


Even sponsors are not allowed to post commercially. They may post in their respective forums, if they have one.


Nanook

[moe_k]

Antimony wrote:
I don't know exactly what the logic is behind no commercial posting on RC...

As Scuba Dave noted, if there were no rules against commercial posts, then RC would be overwhelmed with advertisements. I, for one, am glad that RC doesn't get clogged up with spam.

[denvig]

Imagine how many people/companies/E-bayers would be posting junk for sale on all of these threads It would be a nightmare!!??

You can say that again Dave

[3_high_low]

Originally posted by Scuba_Dave
.....This board costs quite a bit to run.

I bet it does Dave. And I'm thankful that Reef Central membership is free. My guess is it's funded mostly by vendor sponsorship and partly by voluntary donation. It's obvious why limitations with respect to commercial posts are necessary.

:mixed:

[Antimony1019]

I didn't really think about how bog down this board would become if people were allowed to post commercially, I can imagine the nightmare it would become. I know I for one would not be coming onto this board if it were all filled up with people posting commercially, unless of course I wanted to buy something :)...
I also do not think it's wrong for a happy customer to come onto the board and post about the great find they got and things of that nature. I think it's fun to see what is out there and what cool buys people are getting, especially when the buys are a rare find, I've seen some beautiful corals posted on this board and it helps me get an idea (or at least a wish list :) ) of things I want to stock the new 92g corner bow with :).
:)
Steph

[Scuba_Dave]

Thanks for the info Nanook, wasn't sure of the exact Policy. But it makes sense

[objectfire]

Originally posted by Antimony1019
I didn't really think about how bog down this board would become if people were allowed to post commercially, I can imagine the nightmare it would become.

This would depend on what you define as commercial posting, how it was enabled, monitored, etc. Opening the door to commercial posting is not the same as opening the door to uncontrolled commercial posting.

When I said I disagreed with the RC policy, please do not think that I would prefer no regulation at all. For the size of the audience that RC serves, and the associated cost model, the current policy may indeed be the only practical one.

I do think that this model does not serve BRS in an ideal fashion, however.

Kent

[Scott Merrill]

is this really Stephanie, or is this Mike using Stephanie's computer.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do think that this model does not serve BRS in an ideal fashion, however.

In what way?

We are continually considering updates to the user agreement, and are in fact doing so right now to make a number of points clearer.

If there was something that folks thought was important to discuss that was presently now banned, we'd be happy for any input.

I also do not think it's wrong for a happy customer to come onto the board and post about the great find they got and things of that nature.

That is perfectly acceptable under the current policy. :)

[Antimony1019]

Well we both do use my computer- we make a conscience effort to make sure not to post in each others names though- but since he doesn't have access to a computer for most of the day while he is working his day job, I'm pretty sure that this is me (Stephanie) making the posts :). Plus he said that even a bottle of tequila would not help him get cozy with Dave ;) (sorry Dave, when he read the post he said that even a bottle wouldn't do it :) ).

Hey Scott, you sending me that resume sometime soon or what?? It must be nice to have money to spend on tank stuff all day and not worry about looking for work ;), hehe

[Antimony1019]

I think it is a tough subject to monitor, especially when there are so many ways around the rules without really breaking them, just stretching them a little... The original intent of the post was to bring light to something that I have been noticing a lot lately (I may not post often, but I'm on here quiet a bit). There are so many little ways that the rules could be bent without technically breaking them, and there is no way to be able to write rules to avoid this all together, there would be far to many, and/or/but written in the rules and it would just cause confusion. I just personally wanted to shine some light on the issue (or at least what I see as an issue) and talk about why I thought that what a few people were doing was not cool, and it wasn't going unnoticed, even if there wasn't anything that could be done about it.

[Scott Merrill]

Resume? For what? I'm opening an LFS!!!!

[Antimony1019]

I heard that rumor (or I guess not rumor :) ). When I saw you on Saturday you said you wanted to send me your resume for a position possibly in Cambridge, don't go and play stupid on me now, you knew what I was talking about... :)