Mangrove Pods

[JustDavidP]

I have a limited quantity of Mangrove pods (1/2 dozen) up for grabs if anyone wants them.

They are all green but most are "dormant". It may take some time to acclimate and get them to throw leaves, but it should happen. Two of mine are already leafing.

First call can have some.

David

[Scuba_Dave]

I'll take 2 thanx

[JustDavidP]

2 for you! I owe you zoas too right? Let's make plans.

Here are some pics of them in my sump.

[Scuba_Dave]

Nice. We are planning atrip to NC, outer banks. Anyone know if there are mangroves around there?

Will you be at the meeting Sat?

[JustDavidP]

Just be careful....

Mangroves can be a protected species in some areas. I got mine from Florida. They are protected there. However, this guy was using a beach comber and tossing them in the trash. I figured it was worth the effort to pull them out and bring them back. Don't get yourself in trouble.

I can't make the meeting this week. Sorry. If Gumhead is going, I'll give them to him to find you.

David

[Armando]

I'll take 2

[JustDavidP]

2 more... gone to Armando.

I'm leaving the office for the day..but there are two more uncalled for.

Armando...will you be at the meeting on Sat?

David

[Armando]

i was trying to edit my post to say... Thank you :)

RC is very slow today

i'll be at the meeting

[matt-davis sq.]

I'm going to Florida on Friday

Unlimitted Mangrove seed pods for anyone who wants them. PM me,

Matt:cool:

[ScavDog]

Id like some pods

[reefnroll]

I want some if any are left.
Matt - If I missed out on these, will you please get some for me?

bec

[matt-davis sq.]

Yeah, sure.

They grow like weeds down there and the seed pods are all over the place. I'll bundle some up and bring them back,

Matt:cool:

[stevescg]

Just a quick warning about mangroves, the leaves are sturdy enough to block your pump intakes. keep them well pruned!!!

[nickoz]

I am interested in a couple.

Thanks,
-nick

[Bidadari]

David,
I would take the mangrove if you still have any left.
Let me know. Thanks

[gumhead]

DaveP I'm going to the meeting. I will bring the "pods", just figure out who gets what...

[Scuba_Dave]

Matt, bring back about a bushel :)

[JustDavidP]

Matt...

Again, be careful where you collect and how you get them back. I didn't even know they were protected until I got them back and told some people about them. I've heard some horror stories about collection/fines etc. I'd probably not have taken them if I knew. Bottom line is, they were being raked and tossed in the trash by the beach cleaning crew...I don't feel THAT bad :)

Okay... pods are all called for. I recounted last night and besides the few I put away for Gumhead... the distribution goes like this.

2 for Armando
2 for Dave
2 for Scavo
2 for Bec
2 for Nick
2 for Bidadari

I'm not sure if I'm going to use 4 or 6 in my sump. If I have any extra, I'll bag them for the meeting as well.

Everyone look for Gumhead at the meeting. I can't be there. You'll know him. He's the dude with the camera that cost more than my reef ;)

David

[Scuba_Dave]

I'm looking it up on the web, I researched this a while ago. The main issue is protection of the mangrove forest. Seed Pods that are not yet growing have been a grey area of sorts. I'll see if I can't find more info. Last time I checked it was OK to take them from certain areas (especially a trash can)
NOTE: Local laws vary - so what one town/city enforces another may not

http://www.floridaplants.com/horticulture/mangrove.htm

You can now have your mangrove professionally trimmed:
http://www.mysanibel.com/planning/mangrove.htm

[crimson156]

what are the pods used for, nutrient export?

[matt-davis sq.]

...I appreciate the warning. I wouldn't have any concern, except that I'm going to try and stuff them into a shoe box and bring them on the airplane coming home. I'll check with my carrier, and if busted, I'll just plead ignorance.

As a Florida native, I consider mangrove seed pods garbage, and have no qualms about going down into the bayou and picking up a few.

Mangroves were protected until there was a conservative shift in the political atmosphere in Florida. When I was young, you couldn't touch a Mangrove, even if it was on your property. Then you could trim them, but you could not cut them down. Finally, I think you can all out rip most of them up now. What a bunch of morons.

But I digress...

The seed pods I plan to bring back are the common Florida red mangrove. The black and white mangroves do not set out seed pods. At least not that I know of. Those are the only three species of mangrove available to me.

I will bring back as many seed pods as I can fit, and divide those amongst the people who have responded. As these things litter the swamp, there is no shortage in the state. It looks like most of you want two. I will do the best I can...

Please arrange to come pick them up in Somerville -- I will be unable to deliver them. Also, I cannot make any arrangements to keep them alive for a long period of time (they will not fit in my tank), but I don't think they'll die just lying around the house...

I cannot make any guarantees about viability...

If you have already sent me a PM, I have you on the list. If you would like a few, please send me a PM with Mangrove or seed pod in the subject line.

Thanks,

Matt:cool:

[Armando]

unless you're planning a "forest", which is unlikely :D, these are worthless for nutrient export.

They are just pretty, that's it.

[matt-davis sq.]

what are the pods used for, nutrient export?I'm not exactly sure. I just am doing a favour for my BRS friends:lol:

Seriously, I think they are used for nutrient export. Anthony Calfo wrote about them in his book, so (with all due respect to Anthony and all of us BRS members here) there is some follow the leader going on. I admit to succumbing to the reefing 'monkey-see monkey-do' mentality myself, and I'll even try a few:rolleyes:. I am not aware of any scientific data on the efficiency of using Mangroves as nutrient export versus other means.

But that's what is so fun about this hobby sometimes:) Trying new things without a scientific literature review on the matter:lol:

Bear in mind that Mangroves are a tree:eek2:, and a very large one at that with an extensive stilt root structure:eek1::eek1:. I really don't see how they belong in a fish tank:confused:, but oh well. They don't grow overnight,

Matt:cool:

[gumhead]

Originally posted by Armando
unless you're planning a "forest", which is unlikely :D, these are worthless for nutrient export.

They are just pretty, that's it.
:confused: Mangroves are a nutrient eating machines! Some say they do too good of job, striping other things like Magnesium from the water. Another down side is if they die the mangroves with release all the nasties back in the water.

But mangroves are super nutrient exporters...

[Armando]

not trying to be a smart S but i did extensive research and from what I've read the number of mangroves used in a tank is too small for significant nutrient export. I did find some articles saying they are "super nutrient exporters". Just decided to go for the other ones, they seem more credible.

[gumhead]

I did have a bunch of links on mangroves but that was on my old computer from years ago. Maybe the consensuses changed from when I last did research on them. Not that things change quickly in reefing :rolleye:

Here a good article tho...
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/apr2002/feature.htm

[JustDavidP]

Yeah...what he said :lol:

There is a lot of literature out there that states the mangrove to be a great consumer of Nitrate. They aren't fond of the Ammonia, but will catch up with waste at the Nitrate stage. Most tests conducted reccommend 1 plant per 10-15 gallons. I have a lit sump, and an inquiring mind, so I'm going to test it out....can't hurt.

Matt.... I simply wrapped them in wet paper towels, and put them in a huge ziplock storage bag. I carried them onto the plane with my sandwich and other food stuff. They must have thought they were my snack ;)

< D >

[Armando]

yep, from the article above:

"But, on the other hand, regarding the nutrient export capacity of some mangrove plants living on the upper zone of our reef tank, we should not expect miracles. They are slow-growing plants, and their nutrient uptake is limited. To say it clearly: if we have the problem of exporting phosphates and/or nitrates from our tank, due to over-feeding, insufficient foam fractionation, etc, we will certainly not be able to solve it by planting mangroves."

[Scuba_Dave]

I AM planning a forest :)
But I'll share. I'll take as many as you can, but only 2 more from Matt until others are not interested
...now I just need a gator & my bayou will be complete...

[gumhead]

Also from the article...

Mangroves take the nutrients necessary for their growth from the aquarium water. This means that we have a means of exporting phosphates and nitrates. Macro algae do the same, but they easily set those nutrients free when they are eaten by fish or die and dissolve. With mangroves this is different, at least if the aquarist succeeds in preventing the mangrove leaves from falling into the water and dissolving there.

[Armando]

well i dont have any fish in my fuge, and never seem my macro die :)

[Scuba_Dave]

Thanx for the mangroves!!
Also thanx for the zoos!! They are great, I'll have to post some pics later.
When they grow out I will pass them on to someone else

[matt-davis sq.]

I'm here in Florida, and I'm going to head down to the shore looking... I just have one awful thought... What if they aren't in season? I was always so used to them being around, literring the ground, I never thought if they have a season...

Matt:cool:

[Scuba_Dave]

heading out at nite...:)
not sure if there is a season

[JustDavidP]

Matt,

Although there is a "season", you can still find pretty good quality pods in and around some beaches. They are not all totally green. Some have started to brown over. Others have black tips. If there is ANY green on them, they can rejuvinate. Obviously, the more green, the faster they will take.

Have fun down there.

Scuba_Dave...glad you liked the zoos. I'll have more zoos and GSP in the next couple weeks. I broke down the office nano. The rock is in my sump for now. I'm stripping some of the corals for my 75. The other couple thousand zoos and GSPs are up for grabs.

David

[JustDavidP]

For those of you who did get mangroves from me, you may want to check out some on-line resources for using them.

Most people float their mangroves in Styrofoam in the sump in a “hydrophonic� kind-o-way. The pods must be vertical rather than horizontal so that the leaves remain dry and the roots can be wet. The Styrofoam trick is one way of doing this, but I found that it blocked too much light from reaching the other macro alga and such in my sump-fugium. Instead, I rigged an egg-crate rack for my “pods� which allows them to stand upright yet let light into the depth of the sump.

I used 7-inch acrylic rods for legs, a 6� X 12� section of egg-crate/light diffuser, and 8 # 94 O-Rings from Home Depot. 4 of the O-Rings slide onto each “leg� of the stand. Simply put the legs through the diffuser and slide the other 4 O-Rings on top to finish. The reason I used O-rings rather than “fix-mounting� the legs was to allow for give and take of each leg. This rack is mounted over large pieces of Live Rock and not each leg will have to touch the bottom of the sump. As a matter of fact, none of the legs touches the bottom of my sump.

Mangroves tend to root faster if the root end is touching a substrate. They will grow hydrophonically at some point, but again, grow faster if they are touching a substrate. This is why I opted to set my plants on top of LR.

If you want to read more about mangrove sump filters, check out these sites:

http://www.athiel.com/lib8/mangrove.htm

http://moon.ouhsc.edu/pwhitby/mangrove.htm

You will note that many people root their plants in MUD. I am NOT going to do this. I am experimenting in the hydrophonic realm. I figure, the more root exposure to the water column, the more the plant will pull from the system.

David

[nickoz]

Sorry I didnt make it to the meeting. Gumhead, do you have the couple pods for me?

Thanks,
-nick

[JustDavidP]

Nick,

If Dave doesn't, I still have a couple left. I'm only going to use 4.

David

[gumhead]

Nope I gave them away Nick.

Half the people that were getting the pods were not there. It was very frustrating trying to fine the people that were getting them.

[Armando]

JustDavidP thank you for the pods :) gumhead thank you for bringing them :)

[reefnroll]

JustDavidP -

I would love to have 2 if you still have a few to spare.

bec

[gumhead]

Bec someone said they saw you at the meeting and I had pods for you. When the frag swap started you were no where to be found. Someone said that you left! So I gave them away to someone else....

[gumhead]

Originally posted by JustDavidP
Everyone look for Gumhead at the meeting. I can't be there. You'll know him. He's the dude with the camera that cost more than my reef ;)

No one looked for me :mad:

[reefnroll]

Ahh.. crap.
Yeah, I was there. I saw you just across the room from me with that monster camera. I was going to mug you for that and a frag of that sweet acro you KEEP posting shots of! I didn't know you had pods for me, or I would have grabbed those too. I thought David ran out before I asked... so I didn't expect to get any until Matt comes back from Fla.

Sorry 'bout that. The swapping franzy is usually more than I can handle... so I took off. Thanks for trying though...

bec

[JustDavidP]

Nick,

I have a couple.

Bec... I'll recount in my sump to see what I have left.

David

[reefnroll]

Thanks David -
I appreciate that.

bec

[Scuba_Dave]

I ended up with some extras, so I have 2 I can also give up. Plus Matt maya be bringing more back.

[matt-davis sq.]

Originally posted by Scuba_Dave
heading out at nite...:)
not sure if there is a season :lol:I didn't mean right then!:lol:

My plan is to bring back as many as I can and split them amongst the group. If anyone doesn't need some anymore please PM me and let me know,

Matt:cool:

[Scuba_Dave]

Heh heh, I could just picture you with a flashlight strapped to your head, dressed as the Crocadile Hunter...
with the the accent & everything:
we're hunting the elusive mangrove pod, these buggers can really hurt you, ya have to be really sneaky & come up behind them... :lol:

[matt-davis sq.]

Just a reminder, Mangrove pods are for local pickup in Somerville, MA only. Please arrange to come get them, or have someone come pick them up.

Matt:cool:

[matt-davis sq.]

Okay,

As promised, I would bring back to Boston as many mangrove seed pods back as possible. Well, when I made the promise, I was forgetting the fact that mangroves, like any other tree, have a fruiting season:rolleyes:

I didn't completely strike out, though. It could have been worse:lol:. The trees could have been flowering and not even developing the fruit.

Here's where we stand in red mangrove season: the trees have finished flowering and developed the fruit (set seed). The seed has germinated on the tree (what red mangrove seeds do), but the tap root is young and only about 1 inch long. Normal tap root length before the seed falls off the tree is about 9 to 12 inches. The question is, with the tap root so young, are the seeds viable? Perhaps a mangrove expert could shed more light. I don't have any problem collecting the seeds off the tree now and bringing them back. Actually, being smaller in length makes them easier to transport. I would just be worried that the seeds are not viable. You might need to plant them in shallow water to start them, and then transfer them to deeper water once the seed germinates, if it does. Please PM me if you are not interested. The good news is, I will be returning to Florida in a matter of weeks, and I if the seeds are not ripe now (I don't know if they are viable or not), I can bring replacements back in April or May.

Matt:cool:

[matt-davis sq.]

^

(first ever in 1,159 posts)

Just so everyone gets the message...

Matt:cool:

[Scuba_Dave]

I'm not sure if they are viable. Maybe better to wait

[matt-davis sq.]

Update: I have collected about two dozen propagules (the technical term for pods). I will place the collected propagules in some synthetic salt water in the sun and see if they germinate. If they germinate, great, you guys can have them. If they are not viable, we will just have to wait until the propagules are ripe come late summer and fall. There is no shortage of propagules down here. If anyone wants to come by and take their pods now, that's super. Otherwise, I will hopefully have some germinated seedlings to bring to the March meeting,

Matt:cool: