Ammonia not going away.

[Radicaljbr]

Hi,

I have a 105 gallon tank with 150 pounds of LR and 120 pounds of LS which I started up back in Oct. 2003. One day one my readings were

ammonia=.25
nitrites=0
nitrates=0
PH was buffed to make 8.2

After 4 weeks my ammonia never changed and my nitrites never showed aany sign, but my nitrates started appearing and rose to around 15.

So I added some fish that week and still no changes in my tests. Next week I added a few more fish. Did the same the next week. Well, now it has been almost 3 months since I started and my fish are all doing. I did have a bronw algea bloom that was solved in one day after adding 50 astrea snails. I also have for shrimp and a britle star.

Sorry about all the details, but here is my question:

Why will my ammonia not leave my tank?

I am doing weekly 20% water changes because of the ammonia and also have a skimmer that never seems to be needing emptying. I also have a 30 gallon sump.

Again, fish are fine, but my ammonia is still at .25 and has never moved. This reading has been confirmed by my LFS.

Thanks for any help!!

Frustrated,

John

[Radicaljbr]

Darn, sorry for all the typos.

[rvitko]

I dont mean to intrude on Randy's forum but what kind of test kit did you use. Ammonis kits come as either Nesslers or Salicylate and the Nesslers kit can produce false readings when used with certain dechloronaters and other additives. A Nesslers kit is two part a Salicylate kit is 3 part- the worst kits are the all in one bottle kit as these usually precipitate in storage and are essentially worthless. I would get a verification witha Salicylate kit- Tetra offers a cheap and readily available Salicylate kit.

[Radicaljbr]

Roger,

That is very good news to know, because I am using a test from a kit from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals. My test is a two part test so it must be the Nessler kit you talk of, even thought it says nothing of the sort on the box. I also do use dechloronaters when adding new fish. I use my own RO water, but add Aqua Plus or Prime to help coat the fish during acclimation. If what you say is correct, this could be my problem. I hope your right, because I am getting frustraded and have been wanting to add corals.

Thanks

John

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Usually the potentially false readings in fresh salt water disappear fairly fast in an aquarium. When do you measure relative to water changes?

[Radicaljbr]

Usually the same day I do a change I do my testing. I test before and about an hour or two afterward the water change.

[rvitko]

If your using RO their is no need to dechlorinate. I would no longe use those additives. I don't believe they make any difference to your fish and if anything just pollute the water.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Is this an RO or RO/DI?

Do you know if you water supply contains chloramine? If so, the RO (not an RO/DI) will allow ammonia to enter the aquarium.

[Radicaljbr]

My unit is an RO only I believe, but I have tested both my tap and my RO water for ammonia and get no readings.

I did my biggest water change yet late last night and have not tested since. I will do one right now, but am sure the ammonia will still be there with the test kit I have.

[Radicaljbr]

ok

I did another test and here they are:

PH= 8.2 from what I can tell...my test is a little hard to read and i think i need to get a PH monitor. If anything it might be higher.

NO2=0
NO3=10
ammonia=.25 still

tap water ammonia=0
RO water ammonia= 0

Maybe I should try a 3 part test like Nvitko suggests?

I am stumped.

John

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Another kit sounds like a fine idea. LaMotte makes a nice one. I've also used the Red Sea and it is probably OK, though it read a bit low for me when I tested it recently.

[katchupoy]

I dont know it this helps... when using Red Sea... shake it before using it.... I learned this the hard way....

[Radicaljbr]

WOW!! Check this product out. Is says exactly what you stated RVITKO. Even mentions the Prime that I was adding.

I will let you guys know the result after I get this in.



http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=SC4133

[rvitko]

Seachem makes a good set. Personally I got burned out on microlabs in chemistry and just have an aversion to the style of kit. It is a good kit though.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Personally I got burned out on microlabs in chemistry

I got burned in chem lab too, but in my case it was when I heated sulfuric acid too hot and it spattered all over my hand. :lol:

[Radicaljbr]

When I was a kid, my parents bought me a chemistry set. I think they had to take it away after a few weeks, because I kept blowing up glasses and test tubes. I was not much into mixing chemicals up so they looked like milk and then add another potion to make it look like water. I liked to mix everything together including what ever was under the kitchen sink. One day my freind and I were trying to make sparklers with metal sticks, wax,metal shavings and gun powder. Needless to say, I ended up in the emergency room with third degree burns on my hands and legs. I have 3 kids now and think I might have to pass on the chemistry sets for Christmas. Either that or keep it locked up.

Test will be in on Thursday and will let you know my findings.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Good luck!

PS, don't mess with the limewater :lol:

[rvitko]

Originally posted by Radicaljbr
When I was a kid, my parents bought me a chemistry set. I think they had to take it away after a few weeks, because I kept blowing up glasses and test tubes. I was not much into mixing chemicals up so they looked like milk and then add another potion to make it look like water. I liked to mix everything together including what ever was under the kitchen sink. One day my freind and I were trying to make sparklers with metal sticks, wax,metal shavings and gun powder. Needless to say, I ended up in the emergency room with third degree burns on my hands and legs. I have 3 kids now and think I might have to pass on the chemistry sets for Christmas. Either that or keep it locked up.

Test will be in on Thursday and will let you know my findings.

I just took out large sections of the yellow shag carpet in my bedroom.;)

[Radicaljbr]

UPDATE!!

Ok guys...remember me? Well, I got my new test kit today and here are the readings.

First let me state what my old ammonia test is. It is a 2 part Salicylate test kit that tests total ammonia by Aquarium Phmaceuticals.

My reading with this one has been .25 total ammonia from day one.

My new test is bySeachem and is a Multitest for ammonia.

My reading from this new test is:

Free ammonia= 0.00
Total ammonia=0.08

From what I can read in the instructions, the free ammonia is the one to watch as it is the more toxic.

So I guess everything is fine and I will stop using those additives like Prime in my water. Anyone know how long it takes for these additives to leave my water.

Thanks go out to Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley and rvitko

Thanks guys!!

John

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You're welcome.

I'd occassionally monitor the ammonia to see that it does not increase over those values. The two forms are strictly related by pH. So you do have some of both if you have any (though I do not know how reliable that kit is at less than 0.1 ppm).

Good luck!

[Mikefromaz]

Hello all. I have a vexing problem with my ammonia, and hope that someone can clear this up for me. Two weeks ago, I had to switch my reef from my 55gal. to an 80 gal. because the 55 was going to fall apart at any moment. I switched 100lb of substrate (DSB), and about as much LR to the new tank. My ammonia shot up to what appeared to be 3.7ppm, and has stayed that high, or so it appears. Here is the wierd part... I treated the tank multiple times with Prime, AMquel+, and did a 25% water change. I have fish, corals, polyps, clams, and an anemone, and all are doing well. With a "3.7ppm" ammonia level for over a week everything in the tank should be dead or dying, and they are all fine! Here's where I get a hint that something is not adding up. I have a Seachem in tank monitor card which reads yellow (more or less), while the three part Hagen test kit reads between 2.4 and 3.7ppm. What's going on? Has anyone experienced anything like this? Are Hagen test kits inaccurate when testing free and detoxed ammonia? All the while my nitrites and nitrates read zero. I would like to raise the PH from 8.0 back to 8.3 but am afraid to release NH3 at the higher PH level. If anyone can help me, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks
Mike

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm not familiar with all of the different kits, but some kits may not be able to read detoxified ammonia, unless they claim to be able to do so. Also, some kits never work well. :D Anyone know details on the hagen kit?

So it is hard for me to say whether the tank transfer caused an ammonia spike that the Hagen kit cannot read properly (before or after the Amquel), if the high reading was faulty somehow.

[Mikefromaz]

Interestingly enough, it is looking more and more like the "blue" indication is going to return to water clear instead of going across the color spectrum as you might expect. The reading for no ammonia should be yellow, but there is no way that is going to happen. There MUST have been some unaccounted for chemical reaction between one of the ammonia compounds, the ammonia removers and the test reading. Also, the Seachem in tank monitor badge has returnd to yellow or no ammonia, which also conflicts with this wierd Hagen test result. Nitrites are about .25, and nitrates about 5ppm. Thanks for the help, much appreciated!

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

There MUST have been some unaccounted for chemical reaction between one of the ammonia compounds, the ammonia removers and the test reading.

That's entirely possible. The active ingredient in Amquel is quite reactive.