Worried about Ca effluent low pH? Solution.. Make a "bubbler"

[DJ88©]

So. Given that most of use are worried about CO2 being dripped(or poured) into our tanks we have tried to find possible end around solutions. Such as second chambers etc. I have two possible alternatives to this.

First one. Very easy. Run the effluent into the overflow of your tank. As soon as it enters the standpipe it will be mixed quite effectively with air and will raise the pH and "blow off" excess CO2. More than just having it drip.

The second one is quite easy as well. A bit more parts but.. Make a bubbler.

Make a drip container that will stay above the water level of your sump. And that will hold say 1 liter of effluent or so. Run an airstone into it. By bubbling air into the effluent you will raise the pH. I know that it works. It won't do it super fast but it will dissipate more CO2 than just letting it blow off on it's own.

I haven't seen many do the first(I like to and will again with my new tank) and have never seen the second one done. It is an easy fix. and will help remove some more of the exces CO2 and also raise the pH of the effluent so you don't have as drastic an effect on the tank pH in some cases. Tehreby negating the need for dripping kalk at night to offset pH drops if hte extra Ca isn't needed.

I know that some have dripped the effluent into a skimmer body. Same principles. :)

[grim]

First one is very similar to dripping the reactor intake into a skimmer, near the skimmer pump, near the return pump or any other turbulent area of the sump.

I drip my kalk reactor effluent into my overflow to give it a chance to mix a bit before it hits the sump, I wanted it as far as possible from the Calc drip to minimize precipitation. The Kalk pump can overcome the head pressure.. My calc reactor drips in a high flow area of the sump. The Dripping a reactor that high is tricky, unless, of course the reactor is located that high. I found that I cant get a steady effluent drip unless my effluent lines are very short with no vertical rise, and no funny roller coaster bumps, bends, or loops (any of these will cause a hydrolock)..

The second is tricky. I was always under the impression that if you quickly raised the pH of reactor effluent, you would lead to calcium carbonate precipitating. Therefore, you couldn't use an empty second chamber with an airstone to raise the pH, you would end up just precipitating your hard earned calcium and alkalinity. I read somewhere else that the highest you could bring the effluent pH to with chambers was 7.5 or so. I'd assume the same here, if the pH got higher, you'd just precipitate.

Really, multiple second and third chambers to raise the effluent pH seems like the most elegant idea.. One extra chamber, or even two depending on how much residual co2 is left..

You want to talk optimum? I'm in the process of building some prototype co2 scrubbers for my tanks.. They will take the residual co2 out of the air and pump into the skimmer intake. I figure enough co2 is added to my reactor effluent and through any air-water interface in my high co2 house. Mmm.. CO2 scrubber.. :)

jb

[Vincerama2]

Newer AquaC EV series skimmers have the option of adding a John Guest fitting to the air-intake area. So the effluent is sucked into the skimmer and bubbled like made. My tank ph is still low though, even though I also have a 24/7 kalk drip! So consider drilling and tapping a JG valve to your skimmer body!

Another source of CO2 removal, is, of course macro algae! (Or anything photosynthetic since light+CO2=um, plant stuff!) How about taking the bubbler idea a step further and making it a mini-fuge with bubbles?

V

[DJ88©]

Originally posted by grim
First one is very similar to dripping the reactor intake into a skimmer, near the skimmer pump, near the return pump or any other turbulent area of the sump.

Yup. as I said.. :)

I drip my kalk reactor effluent into my overflow to give it a chance to mix a bit before it hits the sump, I wanted it as far as possible from the Calc drip to minimize precipitation. The Kalk pump can overcome the head pressure.. My calc reactor drips in a high flow area of the sump. The Dripping a reactor that high is tricky, unless, of course the reactor is located that high. I found that I cant get a steady effluent drip unless my effluent lines are very short with no vertical rise, and no funny roller coaster bumps, bends, or loops (any of these will cause a hydrolock)..

Depending upon the pump I guess. I have run my past systems like this. Ran fine. As long as the pump can push up that high. Right now my eff lines are about 4-5' long.


The second is tricky. I was always under the impression that if you quickly raised the pH of reactor effluent, you would lead to calcium carbonate precipitating. Therefore, you couldn't use an empty second chamber with an airstone to raise the pH, you would end up just precipitating your hard earned calcium and alkalinity. I read somewhere else that the highest you could bring the effluent pH to with chambers was 7.5 or so. I'd assume the same here, if the pH got higher, you'd just precipitate.

If this were a problem then dripping the low pH effluent into your tank would cause precipitation would it not? I can see this happening with pure O2 being pumped in(tried it). But this is the same action as you are running by having the Ca output into a high flow area or into a skimmer is it not? Or down the overflow as I have done. You are dripping your effluent into a higher pH solution(tank water). The difference between the two isn't sufficient to cause a precipitation. I am basically bubbling air into a smaller chamber to get rid of excess CO2 prior to entering my tank.

Really, multiple second and third chambers to raise the effluent pH seems like the most elegant idea.. One extra chamber, or even two depending on how much residual co2 is left..

To me extra chambers may be elegant but costly and they aren't efficient unless you run a recirculation pump on the extra chambers to ensure that there is sufficient contact with the media. If you don't do this the effluent will flow over the easiest route in the second chamber. Right next to the tubing and thus minimizing contact time. I have played around with second chambers and find that they really aren't that efficient. Plus the cost. A $10 pump and a cheap airstone or the cost of a second chamber. When you don't have a lot of space as well this is an option.

You want to talk optimum? I'm in the process of building some prototype co2 scrubbers for my tanks.. They will take the residual co2 out of the air and pump into the skimmer intake. I figure enough co2 is added to my reactor effluent and through any air-water interface in my high co2 house. Mmm.. CO2 scrubber.. :)

jb

My concern there would be driving your pH higher. We do this at the store to change the pH of water in incoming fish shipments or CO2 to lower the pH of the water change water depending on the pH of the incoming water. Air, as is, works at a nice even rate for adjusting pH. Not too drastic.

I have to run to work but I'll be back later. ;)

[grim]

Reason for the scrubber is to indeed raise the pH higher. My very high indoor CO2 levels combined with my calcium reactor and high cal/alk load means, ultimately, a very low tank pH. Without dripping kalk as my top off (1.5g daily), my pH sits right around 7.8. With kalk my pH is at a morning low of 7.9 to a peak of 8.0. I accidentally dumped about a gallon of saturated kalk into my 80g system (top off issues), and my pH only rose to 8.4. So, I must have a pretty high CO2.. Even tried running an air pump pulling outside air injected (via a T) into my skimmer intake, but it does nothing at all to raise pH. I am going to try a second chamber to help with this as soon as it gets a little warmer outside to work out in the garage where the workshop is.. I'm hoping a second chamber at least brings my effluent pH closer to 7 (I run my single chamber at 6.7pH) to possibly bring the tank pH up a couple of hundreths.. :)
jb

[gbtower]

If this were a problem then dripping the low pH effluent into your tank would cause precipitation would it not?

When dripped into the tank, the Ca would be diluted so the higher pH wouldn't precipitate it. But if bubbled in a separate container and assuming that tank water isn't running through the bubbler, you'll be reducing the pH of a saturated solution, so it might precipitate (although I really don't know).