You cant run a closed and open loop with holes in back of tank..no way

[flyin2jz]

Just wanted to see how you guys were running a closed and and open loop.... i dont think it can be done if your returns are in the back of the tank from closed loop. Reason im saying is i cant get enough flow from my bulkhead to my ampmaster 3000. i have a 1.5 bulkhead and a 1.5 durso... ran directly to my ampmaster 3000 and it wont pump back into tank holes below water level.. i have 3 of them all below water... i closed off 2 of them just to see if it would flow one of the 1in pipes.. no it doesnt... that pump is weird i have a 1.5 feeding it and it cant even flow enough to get the 1in flowing back into my tank. It has to be these crappy dursos...im convinced they suck balls. With the wild flucts in the overflow and not keeping water going to the pump... they really stink... i never had a problem with the old fashioned prefilter with a sponge. I want to see one persons tank plumbing that allows for both the way i am trying to do it. ONe bulkhead goes to sump.. no problem works like a champ.. and the other goes to the ampmaster via a 1.5 pipe... and cant flow enough water to fill the 1in line... i have 3 holes in the back of the tank. YOu wanna know the big problem... check this out.. if i turn off the pump from the sump the ampmaster runs dry... next problem if i turn off both pumps like a power outage i get the tank to empty down to the bottom of the overflow teeth, but guess what else happens? I get water coming in from the returns in the back of the tank up thru the 1.5bulkhead and back into the overflow..how you like them apples... therefore if given enough time the tank will empty itself thru the ampmaster and filling the sump... either way you lose.... please help me out.. Kevin..

[crescent1]

check valves

[flyin2jz]

thanx for the reply but im worried about them failing... you know. i was wondering if i could use one of the holes in the back of the tank to feed the ampmaster and use the other 2 for outlets would this solve my problem? thanx Kevin

[o2manyfish]

If I understand your post -- Do you have a 1.5" Bulkhead in the back of the tank that is not in the over flow box ?

Just run the 1.5" bulkhead to the dolphin and then return to you 3 1" lines.

A closed loop is not a problem.

I am guessing that your overflow box cannot handle the flow of the the ampmaster.

Also a Durso to a pump intake is going to suck air. So it's going to cause the pump to cavitate and put microbubbles in the tank.

My closed loop is through bulkheads in the back of my tank, and my overflow is the open loop.

If I am confused about the plumbing perhaps a diagram of your plumbing and tank holes will help.

Dave B

[flyin2jz]

Hey dave...thanx for the reply... im starting to feel better about this plumbing stuff. This is the deal, i have 2 1.5in bulkheads in my overflow not in the back. I have what i thought was 3 returns in the back. Im realizing it doesnt work.. shoulda done a little more research. THe 3 holes in the back are 1in bulkheads... 2 up kinda high and the other lower...i will post a pic. Do you think i can get away with running one of the 1in lines... probably the lower one since it will be under more pressure and throttle back the ampmaster? I know that you cant run the ampmaster the way i am trying to do it. I have the sump part figured out ... just this closed loop thing is killing me ... lemme know if you think the 1in will feed it ok.. gotta be better than the durso... thanx alot for the reply...im getting closer

[flyin2jz]

pic of tank

[flyin2jz]

what i was trying to do under the tank

[o2manyfish]

Okay -- Good Job on the Pic --


This is an easy fix.

Yank that tiny 1" in the bottom of the tank - Get a holesaw for a 1.5" bulkhead (Schedule 40) - And redrill the hole and plumb 1.5" to the dolphin and then run 1.5" up and split the 1.5" to the 1" bulkheads.

Take the time to do this - - And you will be much happier in the long run.

Dave B

[flyin2jz]

Okay lemme get this straight... you want me to use the lower 1in bulkhead and make it a 1.5bulkhead. Then feed it to the amp, and from the amp back to the 2 outside ones.. is this what your saying. Also should i just cap off the other 1.5bulkhead in the overflow thats going to the amp now. What do you think of me just getting another pump that i can feed with the 1in line..like another lg 4mdqxsc or a iwaki. thanx Kevin. I hate to have such a big pump and have to throttle it down so i dont blow the fish out of the water thru the 2 in holes..hehe thanx Kevin

[seeker]

Flyin,

That ampmaster is huge.. 3000 gal @ 4' of head.

There's not enough surface area in the overflow to allow that much water out of the tank that fast. If you added at least one more of those 1' bulkheads for draining you would still need to throttle down under 3000 gallons an hour.

Given that, If your sump can handle a water drain to the bottom of the upper back bulkheads, then put a (large) inlet filter cap on one of the bulkheads and use it as a return to the sump.. plumb the other two bulkheads for return plumbing. Remember to plumb the lower one to come up to the top of the upper ones or it will siphon to the the lowest return when the power goes off (overflow the sump). If your sump wont handle a drain of the tank to the bulkheads (top ones) plumb the other drain higher.

Next you'll need to add a valve to the return side of the pump and throttle the pump till it does not exeed the output of the tank.

I'm sure there's other ways to plumb it.

Seeker

[flyin2jz]

sump cant deal with that....only about a 50gal sump.. big enough to go down to the bottome of the sea swirls thats it.. I was just wondering if the 1in line down low would have enough flow to feed the ampmaster.. then pump it back into the other 2 holes.... i would think it would thats alot of flow under some pretty high pressure... i still think i may have to get the 1.5 bulkhead in place of the 1in bulkhead... how would you filter the water before going into the pump. Thanx Kevin

[MarineFiend]

Any more info on the closed loop versus this idea???

[seeker]

Here's a pic I just found from another post.

Link (http://community.webshots.com/photo/94561060/114036499jtyGiK)

Seeker

[Jim in santa barbara]

seeker:

this was a little cleaner

http://community.webshots.com/photo/94561060/114064175TcIfng

[o2manyfish]

The Dolphin is not a high pressure pump it's a high volume pump.

So you can return it to the (2) 1" lines no problems.

Since you have the Dolphin - Run it on the closed loop where you will be able to use all the flow.

Running an overflow with 3000+gph is challenging and requires a huge overflow and can be very loud.

Use a Little Giant pump on the sea swirls. - Since they are smaller openings and have internal downsizing, they will require a pump with more pressure to be effective.

Dave B

[flyin2jz]

Lets say i put in a 1.5bulkhead in place of the center low 1in bulkhead... would i still get some loud water movements... meaning alot of pipe noise under the tank...what do you think about just using the lg on the swirls like it is now.. working fine up and running thru the sump with no issues with a power outage already checked. Then try to feed the ampmaster with the 1in line from the lower center hole and throttle back the returns to help keep the pump primed... what do you think of that idea.? Its worth a try and it may just be enough flow if i throttle it down alot.. That way i could fine tune the amp because im sure i wont want full throttle anyway coming from those 1in holes.. the tank will have 2 islands.. one for stag sps corals and the other for table sps corals.. already have my old sps at phishy waiting to return.... cant wait.. hood will be done this weekend

[o2manyfish]

The closed loop will not produce any noise in the pipes. Since it's only water and no bubbles it will travel nice and silently.

You don't want to use a 1" input for a 1.5" inlet on a pump - Your suffocating the pump - This can cause the pump to overheat. If your going to spend the money to spin the pump you might as well use the revolutions.

Removing the bulkhead and redrilling and putting in a 1.5" is about a 20 minute job... Why the resistance to doing it correctly ?

Dave B

[flyin2jz]

Your right dave... im just impatient... i dont know why.. i have nothing in it but fresh water... i will drill out the hole. HOw do i filter the hole so i dont suck fish and such in it... and keep it clean.? My tank is 30 in wide i dont think i can reach that hole without getting in the tank. THanx Kevin..

[o2manyfish]

Fly,

Look Around - I have a 1.5" strainer which is available in slip or thread and is about 12" long.

What I would recommend is redrilling the hole.

In the 1.5" bulkhead use a 1.5" 90deg smooth sweep aimed up.

Then insert a good strainer.

To make life easier build yourself a three sided tower out of eggcrate. Place it around the strainer. The tower will give you a place to stack rock up against and still be able to reach in and remove the strainer and clean it as needed.


Dave B

[flyin2jz]

Hey dave... just for fun i ran the lower bulkhead with flex pvc tubing to the inlet of the ampmaster.... and hooked up the other 2 returns... and it works like a champ. I thought it would suck water or make gurgling noised because it wouldnt be getting enough water... but it runs fine...not noisy, and puts out more than i want thru the 2 remaining bulkheads... i did it just for kicks and to see if it would work... so if someone ever asks if you can do this we can say yes, it works fine... im sure not optimally but good enough for what i was looking for. Hopefully it doesnt damage the pump. If it does i will notify everyone... thanx for all the input Kevin dave you helped me a ton... really appreciate it.

[antonioca52]

^^