My first sump, revisited

[melev]

Do you guys remember the first sump I built back in 2002? Here it is:

http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/tank/sump.jpg

I built a replacement for it finally. Here it is:

http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/tank/sumps/sump_model_a_3.jpg

And here are all the details. (http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/tank/sumps/sump_model_a.html) :D

I'll install it under my 29g in the next couple of days. I can't wait.

[srfndoc]

Looks good, Marc. I guess it helps to practice building these things. I'm thinking of building one myself but need to find the time. I noticed in alot of your sumps your overlow from the tank goes in to a small box/return area. Have you ever had problems with that box filling up quicker than it can dump the water in to the rest of the sump?

How much in materials does an average size sump cost (say 30-40gal sump)? Do you still recommend acrylite or are you using another brand now?

Thanks

[melev]

I'm still using AcryLite FF, and materials run about $100 for a sump your describing. That is the 4'x8' sheet, the Weld-On #4 and a needle tip applicator, plus tax.

The first sump I built I made that little corner box, as you can see in the picture. However, I made it the same height as the baffles and while water did come out the holes in the sides, most of it just flowed across the surface.

This time I made the box taller, so I'm expecting the water to boil in the box and just flow clear water out the holes. I'll post the results later.

[Carl_in_Florida]

Tagging in. Can't wait to see it in action.

[melev]

I think I"ll install it today then. :D I'll post pictures of the old (dirty) one and the new one.

[srfndoc]

A couple more questions for you Marc...

What brand/type of blade do you use to cut the acrylic?

What do you use for edge prep?

Is 1/4" thick enough for a 30gal sump or should I go to 3/8"?

Thanks,

Todd

[melev]

Hi Todd,

I bought my blades at Home Depot. There as a 2-pack of carbide tipped blades for $59 I think, and one had a lot of teeth. At least 80. I knew the 2-pack was a good deal because I do cut wood as well and buying one blade would have run at least $40 or more. Others here use Freud, which cost way more. $100 or higher.

What I do to clean the edges is run a straight edge razor blade along each edge. I used to hold the blade in my fingertips, but that wore my fingers out. So I made a wooden handle that securely grips the blade now, and it is much easier.

1/4" is PLENTY! I've made sumps that hold 80g with 1/4" but it was reinforced repeatedly to keep the shape. For sumps larger, I've used 3/8".

[srfndoc]

Here is a rough draft of the sump I'm thinking of building:

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/37911Sump__Side_-med.jpg

Anything I'm missing with this design? Should I let the water just flow over the tops of the baffles or cut holes just below the top?

For reference, the left side is where the overflow from the tank comes in, the small center section is for a refugium and the right side is where the return pump sits to go back to the main tank. I'd like the last area to be large enough for the tank to go 4-5 days without topping off and I currently lose about .5gal/day.

Thanks,

Todd

[melev]

That looks fine to me. You don't need holes along the top, unless you prefer it. I do put teeth in the refugium baffle because I put snails in there, and want them to stay out of the return area.

If you go smooth, water will flow quietly. Some macros might wash over the top, so be sure to put a screen guard on the intake of the Mag 18 to avoid blockage. It should come with a huge guard, if purchased new.

[waterlily]

Looks great! I made a modified version of your first one, except I made it with a 10 gallon aquarium and glass baffles since glass is cheaper and I know how to cut it without using power tools (my husband gets nervous when I get near his tools). I don't have it hooked up yet and I'm sure I'll find out something I did wrong.

One question - what do you do if the water stops coming from the tank and the pump uses up all of the water in its section? It would run dry and ruin the pump if you didn't have some mechanism of shutting off the pump if the water level got too low.

[BeanAnimal]

Originally posted by waterlily
...
One question - what do you do if the water stops coming from the tank and the pump uses up all of the water in its section? It would run dry and ruin the pump if you didn't have some mechanism of shutting off the pump if the water level got too low.

See my shematic for a topoff system in this thread. I have also added "sump dry" and "sump overflow" protection.

CLICK HERE FOR TOPOFF SCHEMATIC (http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2352044#post2352044)

Bill

[melev]

The new sump is installed. :D Woohoo!!! Works like a champ, and I'll post some new pictures within the next couple of hours.

Waterlily, a top off system is very good if you can't be there to add new water when evaporation consumes too much.

[TheUPSguy]

TBOOHER: I just finished making a sump that is very similar to yours. I made it out of 1/4". Mine measures 34"long x 18" deep x 16" high. I don't have pictures yet, but I just put the water in it for a leak test about an hour ago. I used weldon #4 for the initial bond, then I went back and put a nice bead of weldon#16 along all the seams.


HEY MARK !! How long is long enough for a pressure test? This is actually my 1st acrylic sump, and I don't want to hear a "pop" in the middle of the night. The sump has been curing for about 3 weeks now, so I am sure that it is done drying.

[melev]

12 hours is plenty long. If you don't see a leak by then, it should be fine. It was cured after 48 hours, btw. ;)

[TheUPSguy]

Originally posted by melev
It was cured after 48 hours, btw. ;)


LOL I didnt have any time to do anything more to it. I was also building that darn skimmer that has been inside my head for the better part of a year. BUT I got it done, and all i am waiting for now is the pump, and bulkheads. woo hoo!!!

[melev]

Okay, the webpage has been updated again. Here's the before and after shots, but the webpage has all the details.

http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/tank/sumps/sump_model_a.html

Before:

http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/tank/old_sump.jpg

Now:

http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/tank/sumps/model_a_installed.jpg

[srfndoc]

Very nice Marc. Do you think if you made the slots on the refugium baffle go all the way to the top, like a normal overflow, it would skim the surface better?

Also, in my design I was going to place the refugium in the middle compartment but do you think your design is better since it's getting more 'non-skimmed' water?

On your top brace, did you attach a whole piece of acrylic and then route out the inside? Also, what type of clamps do you use to hold the pieces together while you glue them?

Thanks for answering all of my newbie questions!

Todd

[melev]

Actually, I don't believe the slots make much of a difference. What appears to be needed is for the last baffle (the one by the return pump) to be 1" shorter than the others to keep the refugium water clear. :rolleyes: Too late now for this sump!

You can have the fuge in the center, or put your return in the center if you don't want to skim the water entering the refugium. It just has to be plumbed differently.

I glued the top piece on, and the routed out the opening once it cured overnight.

I don't use any clamps during assembly, but I have been known to stack some encyclopedias on top of the sump while the glue set. The downward pressure helps keep seams virtually bubble free. If yo uopt to use clamps, be sure to use something rigid to press along the full seam and not create 2 or 3 pressure points.

[reef4kids]

Thanks for the detailed explanation guys. Hopefully, this year I will take the plunge and build my first DIY sump.

Out of curiousity, is there any reason not to use black acrylic for the baffle next to the refugium? I would think this would help prevent algae buildup in the pump section.

Thanks,

Jim

[waterlily]

Originally posted by BeanAnimal
See my shematic for a topoff system in this thread. I have also added "sump dry" and "sump overflow" protection.

CLICK HERE FOR TOPOFF SCHEMATIC (http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2352044#post2352044)

Bill

Thanks, Bill, but my degree is in medical technology, not electrical engineering. Do you have directions for making this device?

[melev]

Originally posted by reef4kids
Out of curiousity, is there any reason not to use black acrylic for the baffle next to the refugium? I would think this would help prevent algae buildup in the pump section.

Thanks,

Jim

Black acrylic is double the cost of clear, plus when you buy a sheet of acrylic, using all of it for every part seems cost-effective.

I've never had a problem with algae growth in other sections, besided coralline. That would occur whether you had black acrylic or not.

[reef4kids]

Thanks. That makes sense.

Jim

[melev]

I thought I'd let y'all see how my bubble tower works in the new sump. Here's a video of it.

Bubble Tower - 1.2 megs (http://www.melevsreef.com/video/trapped_bubbles.wmv)

[Konadog]

Marc, is that the return from the tank to the sump? Any problems with salt creep at that corner?

[melev]

Ken, that is the drainline going from the weir box to the sump. You probably said that, eh? ;)

No salt creep yet, but it has only been 48 hours. I keep feeling the surfaces nearby, but all is dry.

[NTidd]

Just a curious question, how come you didn't bend the corner (using one piece of acylic) rather than cutting and gluing them together? btw the new one looks really professional! I wish I would of built the drainline area like you did on the new one.

[melev]

I've done the heating and bending system in the past. However, cutting and gluing gives me a more square joint over all.

Plus, in this case, I had the teeth cut at the bottom of the piece, then glued it onto two new pieces where the sand level would be. Heating and bending 1/4" material is a little tougher than 1/8", at least with a propane torch. :D

I may pull this sump back out and see about trimming down the last baffle 1/2" somehow. I'm not happy with the refugium's surface area at all.