Please critique a newbies sump/ref design!

[AndrewMT]

Hi, I'm new to the reef keeping hobby (or obsession, whatever you want to call it) and I am submitting my first sump design for review (picture attachment at the bottom of the page). Currently, I have a 75 gallon reef-ready tank setup with 100lbs of live rock currently being cured.

This forum seems to have a lot of experts on DIY sump/refugium design, so I thought I'd post my own schematic and see what you think. I got a lot of ideas (and I may not have drawn them right) from this forum and most of the knowledge from the Melev's reef site: http://www.melevsreef.com/what_sump.html

So, let me go through what I have done so far: The refugium and tank are separate so that I can fit them both under my stand where there is a supporting beam in the middle. As I said, the tank is reef ready and the water in the stand flows through 3/4" pipe for the intake and 1/2" pipe for the return. The intake drops water into a rectangular compartment holding live rock rubble and the water then flows through teeth at the bottom of the compartment. The rest of the sump is pretty self-explanatory.

The water in the return area is pumped with a Mag 9.5 to a maximum height of a little less than 4". The water will also split off into the refugium (for its supple of new water) and if needed (if the pump is too powerful), water can also flow back into the sump. This was one of Melev's ideas. The refugium will contain a 1-2" plenum and a simple tube will allow overflow while also serving to skim the water. This, too, is another one of Melev's ideas.

That's about it. Now, I have several questions:
1. Did I do the intake with LR rubble right? Or should the water come in through the bottom and come out at the top of the LR compartment?
2. Do you think the Mag 9.5 is powerful enough?
3. How deep can I make my refugium and still allow for adequate growth?
4. What type of bulkheads should I use to connect the tubes that run from the refugium to the sump? (Marinedepot has at least three kinds).

That's it for now. I'm too tired to think of anything else (but I'm sure I will have more questions later). Thanks Reef Central!

I will try to make a top-down view of the sump tomorrow. For now, just know that Aquac's exit valve is in front of the LR rubble compartment. With a depth of 14", there is space for both. Here's my sump design:

[sdmike]

How's that water supposed to get from the left side of the sump to the refugium on the right? There doesn't seem to be any pumps working on that line.

Mike

[AndrewMT]

It's similar to Melev's design for the return plumbing configuration. The return pump supplies both the aquarium and refugium with water using a T in the return plumbing. Here's a picture from the site.

[AndrewMT]

Here's a better image.

[bumpusjm]

I just have to jump in to say, that's one hell of a diagram/workup you did on that. i'll definately be printing that one up for future use. Don't even have an aquarium right now, but that looks like a winner

[thedogofwar]

Obsession/Addiction

1: Yes, It's not labeled but do you plan to use any filter media before the LR?

2:I think you might be let down by the Mag9 just a little but the 3/4" drain is only going to support 300-350GPH so it might actually be too much. :eek: I'd go ahead and try it anyway, like you said, you can throttle it back with the bypasses. I do believe you're going to need another form of circulation in the display. @350GPH, thats not even 5x turnover rate.

3: fuge can be as deep as you like, it will just take more light the deeper it is. In switching from a 10G-15G I am pleased with the added height.

4: answer one question first, how much space will be between the fuge and sump? Connection of the 2 is pretty much the key factor in selection. a union and/or vavle would be nice between them. My original thought is to use double threaded. Space allowing you could then go BH/nipple/union/nipple/BH. Inside the fuge a thread-slip 90 could be ude for attaching the skimmer pipe. I would consider adding valves by placing them inside the tank. One in the skimmer pipe and prob another connected to the BH inside the sump. If you ever need them, you'll be glad you have them!

* Use a "cross" instead of double T's and I would also place a valve in the display return line.

about those BH's, I would move the joining pipe above the plenum line, otherwise you'll destroy the sandbed if maintenance is needed.

I don't see anything else yet. :) I agree, A+ drawing

[Critter]

The only thing I see, and its from reading in these forums, is it looks like its skimming the tank water first. I was reading that the fuge will do better with the un-skimmed water from the tanks... especially if your going to grow macro. I could be reading the drawing wrong, and maybe it doesn't make a diff... I'm planing on a DYI this weekend, and will probably have the tank water go into the fuge directly, the to the sump for skimming heating and retun. GL

Chris...

ps. yes very nice drawing probably one of the 2 best ive seen.

[thedogofwar]

Originally posted by Critter
The only thing I see, and its from reading in these forums, is it looks like its skimming the tank water first. I was reading that the fuge will do better with the un-skimmed water from the tanks... especially if your going to grow macro. I could be reading the drawing wrong, and maybe it doesn't make a diff...

For now, I believe that is still one of the neverending debates. :D I need to look into it deeper myself but for now, IMO, I don't want to skim out all the production from the fuge.

[AndrewMT]

Originally posted by Critter
The only thing I see, and its from reading in these forums, is it looks like its skimming the tank water first. I was reading that the fuge will do better with the un-skimmed water from the tanks... especially if your going to grow macro. I could be reading the drawing wrong, and maybe it doesn't make a diff... I'm planing on a DYI this weekend, and will probably have the tank water go into the fuge directly, the to the sump for skimming heating and retun. GL

Chris...

ps. yes very nice drawing probably one of the 2 best ive seen.

Yeah, I've heard pros and cons for both. I think the Intake(with skimmer) > Return < Refugium is the best method because not all of the water from the intake can be skimmed. So, the refugium gets skimmed water and tank water. And, like DogofWar said, I would not want to skim my refugium water.

[AndrewMT]

You have brought up some good points dogofwar.

1. I'm going to try a micron filter pad above the top eggcrate in the LR rubble compartment. Melev, however, said they he does not use and mechanical filtration.

2. Yeah, the turnover situation is not looking good. I do, however, have a SCWD wave maker coupled with a Mag 7. But, does that count as turnover? Should I try to add an additional overflow? I will use one of my mag 7s (instead of the mag 9, which I haven't ordered yet) first for return when the sump is built.

4. The space between the refugium is 5" - 7". Do you think it would be okay to put a ball valve between the sump and refugium?

I have another question which I forgot to ask in the beginning of this thread. Does anyone know hot to build in those cylindrical carbon and other filter holders so that water can be actively pumped through them? Here's an example: http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15425&papass=&sort=1&thecat=585

[Critter]

I have not read why you would not want to skimm your fuge water? Please advise... thanks

Chris

[thedogofwar]

about the filters, bioballs have been given a bad rep for nitrates, but I tend to believe that this occurance is operator neglect rather than a flaw in wet/dry systems. You allow organic material to collect on bio balls or LR or anywhere and you'll have problems. Alot of ppl don't want to use filters because it can rob the water colum of beneficial elements as well. my .02

For the plumbing,
I'm just trying to ease any maintenance or problems that could occur down the line. It's up to you on the risks you are willing to take. If you can arrange it, ball valves on both sides of a union. At least a valve on the sump side, the skimmer pipe in the fuge will help on that side. Also take care that these holes get lined up properly and/or some flex pipe is used.

the canister, I'm not exactly sure what it is, but if it's what I'm imagining it sounds like a nice idea. Need more info on it, if it is what I'm thinking, it should be simple DIY.

[thedogofwar]

Originally posted by Critter
I have not read why you would not want to skimm your fuge water? Please advise... thanks

Chris

:o I missed your post Chris.

I've read and heard about concerns that the skimmer will strip valuable microorganisms from the water column that can be produced in the fuge. I doubt that it's very plankton friendly.

likewise, I'm unsure why pre-skimming fuge water would be a bad idea. I'm not "growing" macros, I use them for nutrient export.

Like I said, I need to investigate this more myself, but for the moment I'm lead to believe that it's better before than after.