Protein Skimmers

[Holyreefer]

When purchasing a protein skimmer do you want one that would handle the main tank or one that would handle your entire system, like the sump mangrove tank etc...?

Example my tank is 220 my sump is 80 gallons & my mangrove is 30gallons or just one for the 220?

[VaderWS6]

Since you'll have dissolved organics in your total amount of water, go for a skimmer that will handle 330+ gallons.

[isom]

IMO it's always a good idea to go overboard with protein skimmers. You want something that can handle more than the TOTAL volume of water in your system.

It gets tricky when you try to rely on the tank size that manufacturers rate their skimmers to handle. Some manufacturers are more realistic than others. I think the seaclone is rated at 100 gallons and is really only effective for a nano!

In your case I would consider a larger skimmer that can handle at least 300 gallons or so. Are you looking for an in-sump skimmer or something to be plumbed externally? Downdraft or counter-current?

[Holyreefer]

I wanted to go with the MYREEFCREATIONS MR-2 Which is designed to go with 300gallons

I belive this is a downdraft skimmer don't quote me on that!

[VaderWS6]

Originally posted by Qmonroe
I wanted to go with the MYREEFCREATIONS MR-2 Which is designed to go with 300gallons

I belive this is a downdraft skimmer don't quote me on that!

Go with a Euroreef.

[Holyreefer]

y euroreef?
I want something i can put into my sump

[VaderWS6]

Originally posted by Qmonroe
y euroreef?
I want something i can put into my sump

For the money, Euroreef is one of the best skimmers out there. And it goes in your sump.

[srfndoc]

I have an MR-2 and it is awesome. If you need something custom Andy will build it for you. The skimmers are built like tanks and skim like mad dogs. I have mine in a 30gal sump running on a mag 18.

[Holyreefer]

tbooher,
So the myreefcreations skimmers can be put into the sumps?

[Holyreefer]

forgot to ask are they considered, downdrafts?

[crab0000]

No, they are beckett skimmers. I have had Myreef and replaced two of them with EuroReefs and have been extremely happy with my decision. Do a search on EuroReef and I think you will find plenty of people that are very happy with them.
Steve

[180Gallon]

I just ordered an ASM G-4 for my 180. I have a 75 Gallon sump so I think that this skimmer should be sufficient. It was $373 from aquarium pros. The comprable Euroreef is almost $800 and the ASM has a smaller footprint. It should be here tomorrow. I will let you know my impressions when I get it.

[crab0000]

I think you need to compare the actual sizes of the skimmers and not the rated cappacities. The G-4 is about the same size as an 8-2. I got my ES8-2 for $398 from my LFS.
Steve

[arimanius]

The problem with Euroreefs are they have a huge footprint. I had to go with another brand because the Euro won't fit in my sump and would be a very tight fit just in the stand itself. Just something to consider.

[yarsrevenge]

"The problem with Euroreefs are they have a huge footprint."
Not sure how to interpret. My Euro-Reef is a CS8-2. It has an 8" body diameter as noted in the size CS"8"-2 and is 24" high, noted in the CS8-"2". So it would comfortably encompass a 9" x 9" area -plus a Sedra pump and 24" high, no surprises and a footprint just as big as it has to be for the housing/body. My sump is 40g and WAY comfortable fits a CS8-2. I'm sure in the case of QMonroe, in an 80g sump a CS12-X series would fit comfortably and process all your system water -quietly!
I love my ER!
>L

[crab0000]

I agree with yarsrevenge, the footprint on my ES8-2 is not that big. I am almost certain I can fit it into a 20L.
Steve

[180Gallon]

Not trying to hijack the thread here. Crab0000, so ASM just way over-rates their skimmers? Is see what you mean, the diameter of the ASM g-4 is 8 and the height is 24. With the same pump and everything that would make it like the CS8-2. You got a bargain at $398. Marine depot lists them at $518.

Do you think if I am over skimming that the G-4 is undersized for my tanks? The tank is 180 and the sump 75 but with rock, and the sump not being all the way full I estimate about 230 gallons. It sounds like this skimmer will be underpowered as well. At least is bigger than my current ER.:(

[180Gallon]

I just saw that you said ES8-2 which would be almost identical to the ASM g-4 because of the extruded acrylic. Opps, maybe I should have just paid a little more to get the ER. Oh, well. they are almost identical except for the union where the collection cup is.

[srfndoc]

The myreef skimmers will go in a sump or out. The MR-2 is rated at 300gal and I think that is conservative. I suggest looking at this comparison of skimmers to get an idea on how each one works and their strengths and weaknesses:

http://www.thereefweb.com/skimmer_comparison.htm

[mojodeli]

you should get a euroreef cs12-2 or larger. ALthough I have been running a CS8-3 to great effect.

[crab0000]

180Gallon,
Here is EuroReef's response to being asked why they changed the capacities on their skimmers.
Originally posted by euroreef
Hello All!!

Hope you had a great and FULL-filling Thanksgiving!!:D

We understand that their may be some confusion regarding our skimmer ratings and we think it might help to clarify our
reasoning.

Basically, rating a protein skimmer is precarious at best because and the fact that there is no - accepted- standard by which skimmers can be rated makes it nearly impossible to rate a skimmer and make everyone happy. Our preferred method rating of a skimmer would based on the skimmers ability to remove "all" available surfactant organics quickly and then run idle until more organics are introduced/ produced. We have been using skimmers - of every brand and make- for over 15 years and until the Euro-Reef design, we had never seen a skimmer that worked like that.

With that said, our "ideal aquarium" ratings are based upon through-put and estimated dwell time. The ideal is having 2-3 times the system volume per hour flowing through the skimmer. Case in hand, a 175 reef. The CS8-3 runs on a SEDRA KSP5000 ( 500 gph @ 0' as a water pump) which, after mixing air and water, puts out approxiomately 350-375 gph. That would turn a 175 gal aquarium over just over 2x per hour. The skimmer has an 8" diameter x 20" tall reaction chamber which provides a tremendous amount of reaction time. Combining those two parameters justifies the rating.

An important point to understand is that it is just a "rating". No one is saying "...any aquarium above or below this volume and the skimmer will not work.". On the contrary, the rating should be considered a "middle ground".

As a maunfacturer of protein skimmers, it is a choice to rate a skimmer at all and beleive it, we were tempted to leave the skimmers unrated. Think about it: How would you rate a CS8-3 when the Aquamedic Turboflotor, Red Sea Berlin etc are all rated up to 250/300 galllons??? The Euro-Reef ES5-3 outperforms those skimmers hands down and our ideal aquarium rating for it is "90 gallons"....

Basically, we have provided ratings we are comfortable with. It has NOTHING to do with under-rating, overselling, overcharging , gouging etc. We want you to be happy with the product and it's performance. Ultimately it's up to you which skimmer you put on your aquarium. if you disagree with our ratings that's ok, we encourage you to use your experience and opinions to make a decision that you will be happy with. In the end, that's all that matters to us, that you are happy with our product :D

Regarding conflicting ratings at various websites, we do provide all of our Authorized Dealers with technical data and ratings for each and every skimmer model and we encourage them to use that info on their website. What they choose to do is ultimately up to them.

We hope this clarifies any confusion there may have been regarding ratings and we wish you all continued success in your aquaristic endevours!!

-ER
It is from this thread http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=276118&highlight=euroreef

HTH some about the ratings of their skimmers and why they may be lower than some.

Originally posted by tbooher
The myreef skimmers will go in a sump or out. The MR-2 is rated at 300gal and I think that is conservative. I suggest looking at this comparison of skimmers to get an idea on how each one works and their strengths and weaknesses:

http://www.thereefweb.com/skimmer_comparison.htm
You're right the Aerofoamer did very well in that test, but not all beckett skimmers are created equally and I don't think you can compare a Myreef to an Aerofoamer. JMO
Steve

[arimanius]

Originally posted by yarsrevenge
"The problem with Euroreefs are they have a huge footprint."
Not sure how to interpret. My Euro-Reef is a CS8-2. It has an 8" body diameter as noted in the size CS"8"-2 and is 24" high, noted in the CS8-"2". So it would comfortably encompass a 9" x 9" area -plus a Sedra pump and 24" high, no surprises and a footprint just as big as it has to be for the housing/body. My sump is 40g and WAY comfortable fits a CS8-2. I'm sure in the case of QMonroe, in an 80g sump a CS12-X series would fit comfortably and process all your system water -quietly!
I love my ER!
>L


Going by online listings, the CS8-2 has a footprint of 11" x 13.5" which is way to big for my sump and even my stand. Since you have one, I'll take your word for it. I don't know why they would list it bigger if it really isn't. It get's me pretty upset since that's the reason I didn't get one.

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PA&Product_Code=EURO-CS8-2&Category_Code=EURO

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=ER1133

[crab0000]

I have my ES8-2 in an 11" wide sump. I think the sizes listed are the absolute biggest dimesions the skimmer could take up including the pump.
Steve

[srfndoc]

I would definitley put the aerofoamer and myreef on the same level as far as design and throughput. They use very similar designs, based on the same priniciple and implemented in a similar fashion.

I'm sure the ER's are great skimmers but that wasn't the point of this thread. I'm just trying to give the poster some objective data so he can make his own decision without getting personal about a particual brand.

[crab0000]

Originally posted by tbooher
I would definitley put the aerofoamer and myreef on the same level as far as design and throughput. They use very similar designs, based on the same priniciple and implemented in a similar fashion.
Then why would people pay $200 more for the same skimmer from Aerofoamer? I am not trying to get personal about a brand of skimmer, just giving my opinion.
Steve

[moonpod]

JMO I actually think that most beckett skimmers perform pretty much equally. You just have to adjust for the reaction chamber height, diameter, and the amount of water going through the beckett. I've tried an old Aerofoamer, a knockoff aerofoamer, and my current MRC. What you pay for w/the Aerofoamer is SOLID well thought out construction. As much as I like my MRC unit and think that the construction is solid, the aerofoamer was even more of a tank. That's just my tactile impression of the two units. It's sort of like, why do people pay for lifereef stuff--have you ever priced their stuff it's out of this world expensive....but you don't find Lifereef owners complaining by and large.

Now I will NOT dispute that becketts ARE harder to tune/plumb than ERs. You have to make sure that the skimmer outflow isn't impeded or subject to variable sump back pressure. ER solved that w/their standpipe design (which you can add to your beckett for pennies--pvc elbow and pipe--but this is not something a skimmer neophyte will understand or anticipate). Also b/c the valve is relatively large in becketts you'd be surprised at what you'll find in them (I gotta remove snails on like a biweekly basis from my injectors).

However I will stand by my belief that in the end, if you know how to tune one Becketts' make the most foam bar none in current skimmer design.

So if you don't really understand skimmers and plumbing, in many ways ERs are better units. You just "plop" them into your sump and adjust the stand pipe. If however you want the most skimming power, I think a beckett unit is the way to go.

[srfndoc]

I've done the same modification on my MRC MR-2 (elbow and pipe on gate valve) to eliminate any problems with sump level fluctuation. Seems to eliminate the need to adjust it very often.

[moonpod]

EXACTLY. Most complaints about tuning becketts stems from this, which stems from people not understanding plumbing a skimmer.

[crab0000]

moonpod I wondered where you were:D .
Steve

[180Gallon]

Even if you don't have any sort of auto top off you can divide you sump so that the return is on one side and put you skimmer on the other. Make the divider the height that you want the water level to remain and the level will stay constant. All water evaporating from the tank will 'show' on the return side of the divider.

[moonpod]

Originally posted by crab0000
moonpod I wondered where you were:D .
Steve
You know I couldn't resist....:beer:

[180Gallon]

I was just looking and I think that the ASM G-4 will do just a little bit more than the ES8-2. The ASM is 8.5 inches wide and the ER is 8 inches. So maybe instead of being rated at 155 the ASM should be rated more around 175 (not 350). Not really any big difference though.

[Holyreefer]

O

[Holyreefer]

O

[Holyreefer]

oK I have decided to either go with the mr-2 or the cs-8. From what i have searched here on RC both skimmers are great. I mean the ER is a little $'y but i mean what isn't in this Lifestyle.

I'll update the post decided on what i do. Thanks for all of those that have replied. Much Reefing until the next TIME... Qmonroe

[moonpod]

see on h2otropicals if they have a blem cs-8 or es-8.

email 'em, they don't list everything on the site.

Alternatively call exoticfish.com and ask about southbay 8 series.

Or do what I did--call Andy at MRC....

[Holyreefer]

I talked to Andy he was a really great guy
I'll look into the h2otropicals site

[yarsrevenge]

What about the needle wheel in the Euro-Reefs alot of folks think this one itsy bitsy item makes *all* the difference. I love the teenie and I mean teenie bubbles mine makes. I personally haven't run a beckett style skimmer, but the few I have seen seem to run a little more noisy than the Sedra on the ER setup, anyone else notice this (maybe just me?) as the ER is silent -I can hear my Velocity T4 over it and it's a quiet pump to begin with!
>L

[crab0000]

I think the needle wheel is better because it chops the air up better into the smaller bubbles. I think it also slows the water flow through the skimmer, allowing more contact time fopr the bubbles, while still bringing in tons of air. IMO the becketts are very loud, my ER is almost silent.
Steve

[SPC]

Originally posted by crab0000
No, they are beckett skimmers. I have had Myreef and replaced two of them with EuroReefs and have been extremely happy with my decision. Do a search on EuroReef and I think you will find plenty of people that are very happy with them.
Steve

Crab, what do you find are the differences between the Euroreefs and the MR as far as skimming efficiency goes?
Steve

[crab0000]

I don't really know as far as efficiency goes because I had so much trouble getting my MR's adjusted. I would think they would have to be more efficient though because on the ER's you have a pump pushing maybe 350 gph putting as much air into the column as a 1500 gph pump with a beckett. I get darker smellier skimmate from the ER's than I was ever able to get out with the MR's. There are people who seem to be able to tune their MR's to pull nasty stuff, but I am not one of them. I don't like having to play with it all the time. I have not changed the setting on my ER's since I set them up and they work as well now as they did when they were new.
Steve

[SPC]

Thanks, Crab

BTW, Qmonroe, I will be purchasing a PM Bullet 3 for my new 400 gallon tank.
Steve

[Holyreefer]

a pm bullet? never heard of it from where

[moonpod]

Precision Marine--they make beckett's as well. They don't sell direct. But their website links to retailers.

[Reefraff]

Moonpod

I think I agree on your comparison of beckett vs ER skimmers to a point of coarse. I converted a skimmer I had to a beckett and was extremely pleased with the amount of bubbles it produced vs the venturi setup the skimmer came with. However, after 2 yrs of use, I just replaced that skimmer with a ER. Why? Just what you alluded to, the constant clogging of the beckett. Even if it is not totally clogged, a small amount of debris really drops off the performance and minor clogs were happening as often as weekly. Too much maintanence for me and this happened enough that I came to the conclusion that what I was gaining in bubble production, I was far more losing in skimmer down time or skimmer poor performance time. So, based on what I've read here at RC, I am going with the ER in hopes that it stays working near peak performance most all the time and that the bubbles will be sufficient.

Finished the plumbing last night and will be firing it up tonight :) so I will see.

[moonpod]

Reefraff, my problem isn't that bad. It's actually gotten much better since I put screens on my protein outflow and inflow. I'm sure the ER type units though are less venturi maintenance. I hope you drilled your collection cup though. That's one of the little points that drives me buggy. You paid how much and they couldn't put a friggin' little drain port in??? I mean these are supposed to be very effecient units that generate a good quantity of skimmate right??? I would expect them on the larger units at any rate. I'm sure it'll work fine for ya BTW.

[yarsrevenge]

I hope you drilled your collection cup though. That's one of the little points that drives me buggy. You paid how much and they couldn't put a friggin' little drain port in??? I mean these are supposed to be very effecient units that generate a good quantity of skimmate right??? I would expect them on the larger units at any rate. I'm sure it'll work fine for ya BTW.
I think my CS8 would hold over a qt., but I think as Calfo and Fenner ponit out these devices lead to laziness and further almost neglect, I was told to empty my skimmer and thoroughly clean the collection cup and neck no less than twice weekly. With thant said, my collection cup (even now two weeks into cycling again) only fills 1/2" - 1" every day and the cup is approx. 6" high.
FWIW, I don't think you need an overflow, if you go away have somebody check/empty for you.
>L

[moonpod]

But you see Yar, all this back and forth is why you're an ER club member and I'm not;) It's all opinions, point and counter point. In the end, I'm quite happy w/what I've got, and I'd imagine you're happy w/what you've got. As long as people realize that their seaclown 150 won't really handle a 150 gallon tank, I think a service is rendered.:cool:

[srfndoc]

Amen to that brother moonpod.

[Reefraff]

Moon

They (ER) musta heard ya, mine came with not only the hole drilled, but they even threw in a 3/4" hose bib. This might be due to the fact that I ordered the external version.

Of coarse, after thinking of "everything" and going through the 4 hr replumbing job of setting up the new skimmer, I find at the end of the night that I do not have any 3/4" tubing to run from the cup to the bucket.:rolleyes: Well I'll fire it up today after a trip to the lfs.

Jeff

[SPC]

Originally posted by yarsrevenge
FWIW, I don't think you need an overflow, if you go away have somebody check/empty for you.
>L

This all depends on how you run your skimmer, yar. My skimmer produces about a gallon of tea colored water every three days, this is the way I like to run mine.
Steve

[Holyreefer]

I totally agree with that Moonpod!

[Rueg]

Maybe EuroReef changed the sizes that their skimmers can handle so people would spend more money and buy the bigger more expensive skimmers.

[crab0000]

Originally posted by Rueg
Maybe EuroReef changed the sizes that their skimmers can handle so people would spend more money and buy the bigger more expensive skimmers.
That was addressed in another thread by EuroReef. They said that since rating skimmers was very subjective, they decided they would rather be conservative than have customers with skimmers that can't handle their tanks.
Steve

[yarsrevenge]

This all depends on how you run your skimmer, yar. My skimmer produces about a gallon of tea colored water every three days, this is the way I like to run mine.
Touche! I stand corrected a gallon of skimmate per 3 days, impressive!
Question. Do you find cleaning it (the cup and neck) on a regular basis helps production? I do it 2x weekly now *OR* is this just an overblown husbandry issue, with very nominal bennefit. Because I wouldn't mind just getting a 5 gallon bucket and discharging right into it and only maintenance once or twice a month on the foul skimmer (pee-yoo!). What does everybody think here?

[moonpod]

I run somewhere around a gallon a week. I still get sludge on my riser tube and so every month or so scoop that stuff out. I dunno it really matters honestly. I do it b/c it looks gross ya know? Also, b/c of my current snails all over the place issues, I like to clear my injectors once a month.