Nitrates driving me crazy

[wantareef]

OK, I have searched and searched on how to rid myself of these pesky nitrates but I am still a bit confused on what the best course of action would be.

Some info:

46 gal tank
80-90 lbs of LR
A thin layer of Live sand, I don't remember how much I put in at start up.
A sump w/ Turboflotor 1000 Skimmer and UV

The tank has been set up for a little over 6 months. I had damsels and some other fish in it as it was cycling and recently removed the damsels and was left with a Coral Beauty, a Clown fish, snails, a cleaner shrimp, coral banded shrimp, a bunch of hermit crabs and a brittle starfish.

Last week I started adding my first corals. I added a yellow colony polp, a bullseye muchroom, another colony polp, and a hairy mushroom. Everything is doing OK, except the hairy mushroom. I started trying to figure out what was wrong and what mistake I made. I believe the issue is that I have too much Nitrate in the tank. From the tests it is between 40 and 60 ppm.

I am using a Doc Wellfish Dry TAB test kit, (which I think I may need to go with something else...suggestions would be helpful.)

So what should I do to assist with getting the nitrates under control. I don't want to bandaid the problem, I want to fix it. I have thought about using a nitrate reducer, but they say not to use a UV with it. My other thought is to add more live rock and put it in the sump. What should I do? Thanks for the help.
:confused:

[dj synystr]

turn your sump into a refugium with macro algae and live rock. the algae feeds on the nitrates and will help you lower them. also you could make a simple denitrator from a bunch of different DIY plans online and this site.

[SAT]

The refugium approach suggested by dj synystr would probably work. Note you'll need a good light over the refugium and you'll need to regularly harvest the algae. Personally, I'd stay clear of denitrators... they have a reputation for being very difficult to operate.

What kind of LR did you get? For nitrate reduction, you want thick rock, not the thin branchy stuff.

In a pinch, you keep the levels down by changing water. Nitrate reducers (or just adding a little sugar every day) are another quick fix, but I'd be worried about side effects.

I use a LaMotte test kit. Salifert is another popular choice. If there is a choice, get the "low range" version... you can always dilute the sample with RO/DI water if your levels are too high for the test.

I suggest plotting the trend over a couple of weeks. If the nitrate is declining, no further action is required. If it's increasing, you need to do something.

[jackson6745]

You could also add a hang on refugium if you don't feel like messing with the plumbing

http://marinedepot.com/IMD/mi_cpr_af.jpg

[Henna Ojisan]

I've got the Salifert test kits and I'm pretty happy - I do agree with the "low-range" versions - better accuracy where you need it...

Getting rid of nitrates - I'd go with a fuge and macro algae. I have a HOB CPR aquafuge on my 7 gal nano reef and a in sump refugium on my 40. I won't do another reef without one...

Good Luck!!!

[Myladyfish]

yeah macroalgae rocks... it just grows and grows and grows and exports (nitrate) and exports and sex (sperm coulds water) and sex and sex

[jstoehr]

I agree with Henna Ojisan. I have a HOB CPR too and its great. I don't have any macro in it because the nuisance algaes took over but hey as long as something is exporting nutrients. My nitrates 0 ppm.

[wantareef]

Thank you everyone for your help and advice. I have looked into the refugium but I do not think it is going to work for me as I do not have a lot of room both on my tank, and on the sump. The denitrator may be my best option due to space issues.

Would it help to add LR to the sump? I have none in there now. The rock I have in the tank is Fiji LR. Thanks again.

[DCDeacon]

SAT, Henna, et al, when you do a refugium with micro algae how do you know how much to take out to keep it under control, and is there ever an issue with the algae somehow getting into the main tank and taking root there?

For your run-of-the-mill sized sump/refugium, what's a good light to use?

[jackson6745]

Originally posted by wantareef
Thank you everyone for your help and advice. I have looked into the refugium but I do not think it is going to work for me as I do not have a lot of room both on my tank, and on the sump. The denitrator may be my best option due to space issues.

Would it help to add LR to the sump? I have none in there now. The rock I have in the tank is Fiji LR. Thanks again.

What Denitrator?
These things don't work very well. If you can't do a refugium (eventhough the hang on unit requires minimal space:rolleye1: ) you should grow some macros in your tank.

[wantareef]

Where do you put a hang on refugium? I will see if I can get something that will fit, but the space below the tank is very small, and I have almost no room in it already.

Is there a way to build one in the existing sump?

[jackson6745]

Originally posted by wantareef
Where do you put a hang on refugium? I will see if I can get something that will fit, but the space below the tank is very small, and I have almost no room in it already.

Is there a way to build one in the existing sump?

How big is the sump? Do you have room left in it? The hang on is only 4.5" wide. Maybe you can even hang it on your sump to hide it

[SAT]

Originally posted by DCDeacon
SAT, Henna, et al, when you do a refugium with micro algae how do you know how much to take out to keep it under control, and is there ever an issue with the algae somehow getting into the main tank and taking root there?

For your run-of-the-mill sized sump/refugium, what's a good light to use?
I suggest letting macro-algae grow until there is a good mass (enough so it starts shading itself), harvest half of it, then let it regrow.

BTW, I don't like Caulerpa much. Chaetomorpha grows really fast and doesn't die back.

If you want a cheap light, there's a 65W "light of america" compact fluorescent flood lamp that you can get from Home Depot.

[wantareef]

I would have to hang it off the back of my tank. I have a little over 5 inches between the tank and the wall, so it will have to do. Definitely can not hang on the sump. No room.

Can I use my exsisting lights? How long does the light need to be on the refugium?

Please bare with me as I do not fully understand the refugium solution. What is harvesting the algae mean? How does the algae grow? Do I need to stock it with algae or something as I see there are different kinds. I currently have no algae issues in my tank, just nitrate issues.

[wantareef]

Also, if I did go with the hang on refugium, what size would be appropriate? I have a 46 gal tank.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3618&D=refugium&R=7276&Ntt=refugium&Ntk=All&Dx=mode+matchallany&Ntx=mode+matchallany&Np=1&N=2004&Nty=1

[SAT]

You'll need to stock the algae. Caulerpa is probably available from your LFS. Chaetomorpha can be purchased mail order (e.g., Inland Aquatics (http://www.inlandaquatics.com)). Basically you grow it like any plant... put it in the refugium, give it light and circulation, and it will grow. Once it forms a fairly dense mass, just reach in with your hand, rip half of it out, and toss it in the garbage disposal. Removing the algae also removes all the nutrients (including nitrates) that the algae consumed in order to grow.

As for a refugium size... the short answer is get the biggest one you can manage. The bigger it is, the more benefit you get.

[jackson6745]

I would get the largest model, it's still ony 4.5"
Think of your fish poop as fertilizer for the plants (macros)....they use it to grow. There's a little more to it but you get the idea;)

Rich

[Henna Ojisan]

Chaetomorpha grows really fast and doesn't die back. If you want a cheap light, there's a 65W "light of america" compact fluorescent flood lamp that you can get from Home Depot.

I'm running chaet - not a fan of caulerpa... I also have the 65w light listed above (It cost me $20 and the bulb is a 6500k bulb) and it's perfect.

[Alaskan Reefer]

I have the 24" AquaFuge with chaetomorpha and a 4" sand bed (probably not necessary to use this much sand as the surface area is too small to make a real difference). It has made a large difference in my tank -- phosphates now 0 and nitrates now 0. I don't know that it REDUCES nitrates (I'm sure it does phosphates), but I know it maintains nitrates at whatever level they're at. As you do water changes, the nitrates just stick at the lower level each time. I'll never have another SW tank without a refugium of some type. If you buy the 24" CPR, just make sure to beef up the center brace. My replacement is coming (center brace broke) and the acrylic chocks are waiting to be glued into the new one...

Nitrate reactors do work once you tune them correctly. I won't be buying one (no need), but a reefing buddy of mine uses one very successfully to maintain 0 nitrates.

[llebcire]

Originally posted by wantareef
OK, I have searched and searched on how to rid myself of these pesky nitrates but I am still a bit confused on what the best course of action would be.

Some info:

46 gal tank
80-90 lbs of LR
A thin layer of Live sand, I don't remember how much I put in at start up.
A sump w/ Turboflotor 1000 Skimmer and UV

The tank has been set up for a little over 6 months. I had damsels and some other fish in it as it was cycling and recently removed the damsels and was left with a Coral Beauty, a Clown fish, snails, a cleaner shrimp, coral banded shrimp, a bunch of hermit crabs and a brittle starfish.

Last week I started adding my first corals. I added a yellow colony polp, a bullseye muchroom, another colony polp, and a hairy mushroom. Everything is doing OK, except the hairy mushroom. I started trying to figure out what was wrong and what mistake I made. I believe the issue is that I have too much Nitrate in the tank. From the tests it is between 40 and 60 ppm.

I am using a Doc Wellfish Dry TAB test kit, (which I think I may need to go with something else...suggestions would be helpful.)

So what should I do to assist with getting the nitrates under control. I don't want to bandaid the problem, I want to fix it. I have thought about using a nitrate reducer, but they say not to use a UV with it. My other thought is to add more live rock and put it in the sump. What should I do? Thanks for the help.
:confused:

Just a thought...

You don't mention anything about the use of powerheads. If there aren't any, I guess it would be possible that the LR isn't able to completely do its job and dead spots/lack of circulation/buildup in pores might lead to excess nitrates.

[prezioso73]

I like what i am hearing....I am looking to build a refug. for my 200 gal system. I have been getting some hair algae. WHat kind of lighting schedule is the best?

[SAT]

You'll get differing opinions on lighting schedules. The "miracle mud" refugiums typically keep the lights on 24/7, which supposedly prevents the Caulerpa from dying back. On the other hand, we learn in high school botany (a long time ago for me) that plants need at least 4 hours of darkness for peak efficiency.

Assuming the light is shaded from your main tank, you might consider a reverse cycle -- keep it on at night and off during the day. That evens out the photosynthesis, keeping your oxygen levels higher and preventing a night-time drop in pH.

[wantareef]

Originally posted by llebcire
Just a thought...

You don't mention anything about the use of powerheads. If there aren't any, I guess it would be possible that the LR isn't able to completely do its job and dead spots/lack of circulation/buildup in pores might lead to excess nitrates.

I have 3 powerheads in addition to the main feed back into the tank, 2 Maxijet 1200s and a Maxijet 900.

I went to my LFS yesterday and spoke to them about my issues. They said do more water changes, feed less, and that my Protein Skimmer wasn't working correctly.

I have a Turboflotor 1000. It fills the collection cup over the course of 3 weeks or a month. They said that it is not pulling enough from the water and that it should fill weekly or bi-weekly. Is this a possibility? Do I need to adjust it? What should I be expecting from the Protein Skimmer as far as how much it pulls from the water? Thanks again everyone.

[llebcire]

Originally posted by wantareef
I have 3 powerheads in addition to the main feed back into the tank, 2 Maxijet 1200s and a Maxijet 900.

I went to my LFS yesterday and spoke to them about my issues. They said do more water changes, feed less, and that my Protein Skimmer wasn't working correctly.

I have a Turboflotor 1000. It fills the collection cup over the course of 3 weeks or a month. They said that it is not pulling enough from the water and that it should fill weekly or bi-weekly. Is this a possibility? Do I need to adjust it? What should I be expecting from the Protein Skimmer as far as how much it pulls from the water? Thanks again everyone.

Their advice does sound reasonable, and since you posted it I would assume that you feel it has validity.

I do not use your skimmer, so I don't know what "average" output would be. In my scenario, I pull between 1/2 cup to 1 cup every day or so, so I empty it 2-3 times a week.

[wantareef]

Originally posted by llebcire
Their advice does sound reasonable, and since you posted it I would assume that you feel it has validity.

I do not use your skimmer, so I don't know what "average" output would be. In my scenario, I pull between 1/2 cup to 1 cup every day or so, so I empty it 2-3 times a week.

I think it has validity to an extent. I do water changes often. I don't believe that I feed too much. I feed frozen food, and it is only one cube per day. Maybe I should cut it to 1/2 a cube per day.

What I am most concerned about is the skimmer. Since it is my first one and didn't have any prior knowledge to the fucntioning of one, I am not sure how much I should be skimming. From what you say I may not be skimming enough. This worrys me.

[Riptide10]

Maybe a dumb question here. Is there any reason you can't just let the macroalgae grow in the display tank? I prefer it over microalgae and I don't intend to keep corals or anemones. Some of it is actually kind of attractive (caulerpa) IMO.