New Salt Mix by Oceanic

[crlkeep]

Oceanic Systems now has their own Synthetic Sea salt mix. They are offering free 5 gallon mix samples, so check this link out...

http://www.oceanicsystems.com/seasalt/

[lchase12]

Thanks for the information

[crlkeep]

Your Welcome. :)

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks. I saw that ad. Are you going to try it?

The all natural part doesn't make sense to me. Every inorganic ion in seawater is natural.

[Scleractinian]

Beat me to it...

BTW What's w/ the 'natural sea salt' description... Would't the product of evaporated 'natural sea salt' be partially insoluble?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, drying seawater won't work out because of formation of things like calcium and magnesium carbonates.

[Scleractinian]

Just watched their quick Flash presentation... must be the ' MICRO-CRYSTALS ! :rolleyes:

[Scleractinian]

Anyone volunteering to tell us what's in this stuff?

They'll give you a free sample... you just need to pay for the analysis. :)

Also, any idea who might be producing the salt? Did Oceanic actually buy or build the capacity to do this, or have they contracted w/ another company, as (IIRC) Kent did w/ AS?

[Boomer]

To me it has the smell of Red Sea Salt:D


Coral Reef Red Sea Salt


*
A chemically balanced formula to support the most delicate marine life

*
Produces a clear solution that is almost indistinguishable from natural sea water

*
No Nitrates or Phosphates

Coral Reef Red Sea Salt is a single, chemically balanced formula that supports the most delicate marine life. It reaches a stable, natural pH shortly after mixing. Contains no nitrates or phosphates and is the most "natural" artificial sea salt on the market, with at least 87% of the raw materials being reclaimed from natural water sources. It can be mixed to any desired salinity and is suitable for marine fish and invertebrates from every sea and ocean. Tests have shown a significant difference in coral growth when using "natural" instead of "chemically pure" salts.

Please click on "More Information" for some special characteristics of Coral Reef Red Sea Salt.

[Scleractinian]

Originally posted by Boomer
To me it has the smell of Red Sea Salt:D


Coral Reef Red Sea Salt


*
A chemically balanced formula to support the most delicate marine life

*
Produces a clear solution that is almost indistinguishable from natural sea water

*
No Nitrates or Phosphates

Coral Reef Red Sea Salt is a single, chemically balanced formula that supports the most delicate marine life. It reaches a stable, natural pH shortly after mixing. Contains no nitrates or phosphates and is the most "natural" artificial sea salt on the market, with at least 87% of the raw materials being reclaimed from natural water sources. It can be mixed to any desired salinity and is suitable for marine fish and invertebrates from every sea and ocean. Tests have shown a significant difference in coral growth when using "natural" instead of "chemically pure" salts.

Please click on "More Information" for some special characteristics of Coral Reef Red Sea Salt.

I was thinkin' 'zactly the same thing...

[vgibbens]

I sent an email to Oceanic asking for an analysis a week ago. I still have heard nothing from them.

[Scleractinian]

Originally posted by vgibbens
I sent an email to Oceanic asking for an analysis a week ago. I still have heard nothing from them.

Did you get your free sample yet?

(Please be sure not to have one sent to your home, one to your lab, one to your office, one to your parents' house, one to the inlaws, etc... that would be... unethical ;) )

[nysbadmk8]

i will try the free sample

[rvitko]

Originally posted by Boomer
To me it has the smell of Red Sea Salt:D


Coral Reef Red Sea Salt


*
A chemically balanced formula to support the most delicate marine life

*
Produces a clear solution that is almost indistinguishable from natural sea water

*
No Nitrates or Phosphates

Coral Reef Red Sea Salt is a single, chemically balanced formula that supports the most delicate marine life. It reaches a stable, natural pH shortly after mixing. Contains no nitrates or phosphates and is the most "natural" artificial sea salt on the market, with at least 87% of the raw materials being reclaimed from natural water sources. It can be mixed to any desired salinity and is suitable for marine fish and invertebrates from every sea and ocean. Tests have shown a significant difference in coral growth when using "natural" instead of "chemically pure" salts.

Please click on "More Information" for some special characteristics of Coral Reef Red Sea Salt.

If it is it will have sand in it. Red Sea Salt always has sand in it.

[vgibbens]

Originally posted by Scleractinian
Did you get your free sample yet?


No, they said it would take 2-3 weeks. One of the LFSs here will be carrying the salt and the owner said that Oceanic won't even be shipping him any 'til the end of the month.

[JonL]

I woulden't ask for an anaylas untill after I recived my free sample Ha ha ha

[Scleractinian]

Anyone rec'd their salt yet?

[tsiler]

Our local shop has a bunch of the 200g buckets in the back. I was thinking of trying it but I don't want to be the guineapig. I recently fended off a bout of high pH due to some less the balanced Instant Ocean, so I'm in the market for a change. Thought about Tropic Marin but the price sucks and I have a friend who suffered from cloudy suspensions when first using it.

My pH was running 8.35 at night and over 8.5 during the day... did a big water change (with the same batch of salt) and no change... recalibrated both controller and handheld probes... no change... added buffer even though my dKH was testing at 10-11... no change... stopped dosing kalk for two weeks... no change... more water changes... no change... new RO/DI membranes... no change... changed (reduced) lighting cycles by an hour a day... well, you get the point.

I have used IO for so many years that I never imagined it could be bad. Anyhow, I'll pick up a bucket of Oceanic tomorrow and mix some up and test for everything I can test. It would sure be nice to see lab results on heavy metals, etc.

Tom Siler
Columbus, OH

[vgibbens]

I got in on a local group buy and bought 3 200 gallon buckets for ~$32 each. The shop we ordered it through tested the salt and got pretty good readings mixing the salt using RO/DI to a SG of 1.025 (refractometer).

Calcium: ~450
pH: 8.2
ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 0
phosphate: 0
alkalinity: ~9dKH

[crlkeep]

Don't feel bad, I still have not revieved anything from Oceanic myself. I was interested in testing the salt for myself, but I am not going to go out and buy a big bag of it unless I get some results on its chemical properties.

Too much time and effort, not to mention money invested in my tanks to "mess" with a good thing.

Ditto the comments on IO. Never got a single batch to test consistantly with the next. Since stability in water quality is the goal, that kinda excludes IO for me... :)

[crlkeep]

To date, I have not recieved an answer to my request for a chemical analysis of this salt mix either. I will give them a couple more days, then bug them again...

Strange though, they make some very interesting claims, but are seemingly not interested in substantiating them. Atleast not with any kind of reasonible speed.

They claim it contains - Calcium and all other essencial elements found in Natural Sea Water. - Ummmm, doesn't just about every other salt make this same claim????? Doesn't tapwater have Calcium in it? - It almost instantly dissolves in water.... - So, at what pH does it instantly mix to?

Sorry if I seem a bit cynical, but after all, it is my tanks inhabitants that would be affected by their salt. With all the money, time and effort most of us have in this hobby, they could atleast throw us a bone......

Hmmmm...... :rolleyes: :confused: :rolleyes:

[Shablin]

How do you get your home/office/garage/shed/mother/ex-wife/children/dog etc samples? Just email em?

[mhurley]

crlkeep,

Check this for info too:
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=305158

A few of us have been playing with and testing it. Quite impressive so far. Mixes up clear within 5 to 10 minutes, calcium around 460, Mg aroun 1325, alk at 8 or 9, pH 8.0. Those are pretty common numbers that some of us have independantly tested and got.

I did a 50 gallon water change with it on my ~450 gallon system and no ill effects. I really like the calcium, Mg and quick dissolve nature.

I've been in email correspondence with a very nice guy at Oceanic (to get my free sample that was never mailed). I straight out asked him for their "marketing ready analysis" and he said they were not ready to release that yet.

Mike

[crlkeep]

Thanks for the info Mike. :)

I am a bit of a skeptic. I am glad however that your tests are yeilding some positive results...

When I get my sample, I wil add my results to that thread... :)

Shablin,

They had a section on their site a few weeks ago. This was a limited time offer, so I am not sure if the samples are still available. But it never hurts to ask......

[Scleractinian]

Anyone get their free samples yet?

[MiddletonMark]

I have my free sample.

If someone has facilities to run a `high power' test on it ... I have a 5g unopened bag I'd happily allow.

I had no problems with the w/c's I've done on my tanks since the switch from IO. I guess I volunteered to guinea-pig myself, and am happy to be just adding buffer more than 2-part now, as it definitely helps keep my Calcium #'s up.

The greatest thing? I'm not sure 'bout that. Check in in a couple of months, I'll let you know how things are long-term :)

[Scleractinian]

Mark, did you have to send them a "reminder" e-mail? Seems that some people have had to do so, and others haven't.

[MiddletonMark]

I didn't have to. And I'm serious - if someone wants to test this/get this tested in some serious fashion ... just give me the shipping address and I can send.

Though I'm NOT giving my free sample away, but if someone can really get `high accuracy' #'s on a range of things in this salt ... I'm happy to move this discussion forward :)

I think that they probably got more requests than they had?

[mhurley]

Mark,

I've done two 50 gallon water changes on my ~400 gallon system with Oceanic so far. I love this stuff and I'm sold. Corals seem happier...etc..Water params are excellent.
I'm like you...I took the plunge..I did my first 50 change just to test the "Switching salt" effect and there was none...So I'm off to the races with weekly/bi-weekly 50 changes. Until I dilute this Crystal Seas out of my system completely.

Happy Customer #2
Mike

[imbuggin]

Guys take a look in the sps forum. I asked about the salt and a bunch of people using it in their sps reefs responded. There are a few threads in the forum so look around a bit. For the most part people seem to love it. Disolves quick and high in calcium. I am going to buy a few 200 gallon bucks and start to use some. Right now its about half the price of reefcystals. A store in chicago has 200 gallon buckets for i think 35$. Can't beat that. I change about 120 gallons of water a month on my 300 so the price seem right.

[Leviathan]

Happy customer #3

When I upgraded to my 90 a few weeks ago, the only salt my LFS had at the time was this stuff. I had used IO fo 5 years and was a bit worried about a sudden switch.

I ended up using this salt exclusively for the new tank.

I will say this, The calcium level is amazing, as well as a great KH and Ph level. I am much happier with it then i was with IO ( At least so far ) But only long term will tell the truth of how good it is.

[Scleractinian]

e-mailed Oceanic asking where my sample was. Their reply:

"We sent out samples in the order they were received until we ran out thousands of samples later. There are still numerous requests but our salt is selling so fast we can barely keep up with production and have no surplus to make into samples. We apologize for the inconvenience."

Guess I'll not be running out to find some until I use the 4 1/2 buckets if IO that are in the basement. :(

[Scooterman67]

Has anyone done lab test on this product?
I'd like to see actual comparisone to the others!

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm not aware of any. Full test of salt mixes is VERY expensive. Inland Reef has been raising money for a test of several brands:

http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=38052

[Scooterman67]

Thanks for the information, I know it is very costly, just wondered if anyone would of sponsored such a thing. I just wish I could compare Apples to Apples because with all of the others, the numbers I crunch is usually different than what each manufacturer provides.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, I agree. That's one reason that am eagerly awaiting the salt study. :)

[mrwhitefolks]

just started reading this thread and have a few comments.

I work at a salt and reef specialty store in the bay area. In the store we received 500gals of this stuff to try out in our systems. As far as hassle of stirring is concerned this stuff is great. We have our RODI unit hooked up to a hose so the water is usually pretty cold. We have been using IO forever and when mixing in large quantities in 50gal garbage bins it would normally take about 5-10 min for IO to completly disolve to be used in our systems. However when using the new oceanic salt it dissolved almost instantly. Its actually a pretty cool product from what I've seen. When the oceanic sales rep came by the store to inform the employees on the new mix he said that "Oceanic's scientist have been working on this product for 2 years." so I believe that oceanic is making this salt themselves. However what most people don't know is that there is a company called central pet who actually owns oceanic and kent and tetra... well pretty much the majority of the industry so who knows who is making this stuff. From what I've used and heard hear are the levels:

When salinity is between 1.023 and 1.025
calc-400 to 420
alk-10-11
ph-8.0 to 8.3
phos-0
nitrite-0
amonia-0

Well hope this has been somewhat helpful. I'll tell you one thing for sure I bought myself a 200gal mix and am pretty happy.


-MRWHITEFOLKS

[Scooterman67]

Sounds like good info, thanks for the post.

[Coral_Geek]

Originally posted by mrwhitefolks
However what most people don't know is that there is a company called central pet who actually owns oceanic and kent and tetra... well pretty much the majority of the industry......
Central Pet does not own Tetra. Tetra is owned by a European investment group. Central Pet is a publicly held company (CENT) that owns All-Glass, Oceanic, Island, Kent Marine, TFH, Aquarium Products/Interpet, Four Paws, Kaytee, Zodiac and a bunch of lawn and garden companies. The local rep who calls on a store I spend a lot of time in is a really nice guy who told me about their company. I bought some of their stock last June at $24 a share and it is trading at $38 now. As for Oceanic Salt, I have e-mailed Oceanic and they say they mix the salt locally in Dallas, TX. The head guy in marketing is a guy named Chris who said the analysis is:
"When 0.29 pounds of Oceanic Natural Sea Salt are mixed in 1-gallon of Reverse Osmosis water it will yield a crystal clear solution with the following results:
· Specific gravity 1.021 to 1.023
· pH 8.0 to 8.2
· Calcium 420 - 460 parts per million
· Magnesium 1250 - 1350 parts per million
· Potassium 380 - 400 parts per million
· Bromide 65 parts per million
· Oceanic Natural Sea Salt does not contain phosphates or nitrates
· Extremely low moisture content (prevents clumping or caking) "
I find I don't need to add a lot of CA supplement to my reef since I switched from IO. I like the fact that my water is very clear following a water change.
I would love to see a controlled, multi-trial study showing a head to head comparison of all the major brands on the market. Isn't there a reefer anywhere who needs a postgraduate project to work on?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Specific gravity 1.021 to 1.023
· pH 8.0 to 8.2
· Calcium 420 - 460 parts per million
· Magnesium 1250 - 1350 parts per million
· Potassium 380 - 400 parts per million
· Bromide 65 parts per million
· Oceanic Natural Sea Salt does not contain phosphates or nitrates

So either the oceanic folks do not know how to use the term "specific gravity", or they have grossly overloaded it with calcium, magnesium, potassium, and bromide (relative to natural seawater at the same specific gravity). I expect (and hope) that it is the former. :(

[Yellotang]

I finally added my free sample to my tank last night. no ill effects. but wouldn't think there would be for 5 gallon mix on a 200+ gallon system.

Also lots of stores around me are now pushing this salt saying it is the best thing since sliced bread.

[mrwhitefolks]

to coral_geek

sorry about confusion but coral geek is completly right, central pet does not own tetra! my bad don't know what I was thinking, long day at work I guess. Tetra was founded by Dr. Ulrich Baensch in Malle, Germany and was originally called Tetra Werke. Started company off by making optimal flake food and the rest is history. Thank you for the corection Coral_Geek.

Mrwhitefolks

[bootsy]

Guess my only worry is that oceanic stuff tends to run on the pricey side. This teaser price is great...but how long till they jack it up to where it's a premium product? concern anyone else?

[mrwhitefolks]

Bootsy

mrwhitefolks here if you read my occupation you will see that I sell this stuff at the store i work at.

I edited the remainder of this post becuase the user agreement does not allow commercial posts.

Randy




Mrwhitefolks

[bootsy]

ummm...i guess there may have been something interesting in that post. mrwhitefolks would you reply again with the general gist of what was there...maybe just take out the commercial stuff? or better yet - just send me a pm.

thx

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, he should feel free to send to the details by PM. It was basically an ad for the product at the store. When prices and phone numbers enter such posts, it crosses the line to prohibited commercial posting. :)

[mrwhitefolks]

OOOOOOps sorry about that guys! Dont really remember what exactly I had written in the post, but as far as cost affecting this product is concerned at the LFS in my area the cost of this new salt is actually CHEAPER or about the same as IO or any other salts for this matter! Not sure if its purly promtional but I havnt seen cost go up within the time my LFS has been carrying it. Hope this can help somewhat! Sorry again about the name dropping!

Mrwhitefolks

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

No problem. :)

[jfinch]

Anyone notice that this salt appeared just after the Omega-Seas salt dissapeared. I don't know about your area, but around here Omega-Seas was everywhere and pushed hard. The Oceanic salt visually looks similar to the Omega-Seas and makes some of the same claims. One claim that the Omega-Seas salt made was better buffering. I think they did that by elevating the boron in the mix. Anyone check the Oceanic salt for boron? Just curious...

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I vaguely remember someone measuring it and suggesting it was high, but I can't find that post, and could be confusing two different things.

[Reef Gambler]

I bought 2 of the 200gal pails, and just returned the unopened one today for store credit. As far as I am concerned, it needs a lot of work. When set to 1.025 sp grav. the calcium was good at 450, there was no NH3, NH4, NO2, NO3. The problem was that the pH was 7.9, with a dkh of 8 when mixed with ro/di water. Talked to the LFS and they said that they use it in their tanks because they get a real price break, so it costs them almost nothing. They got the same results as I did, but they were willing to add the required chemicals because of the low cost.
I, on the other hand am not willing to do that.
Bert

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What do you want the alkalinity to be?

[Scooterman67]

I didn't know that was bad?
Wonder if your worried that a ca of 450 & alk of 8 would be out of balance? Ph 7.9 isn't so bad & I'm sure it will raise rather quickly once added to your tank?

[Yellotang]

It should rise once the skimmers and pumps move that stuff around and drives out any CO2's and oxygenates the heck out of it.

[Reef Gambler]

I was under the impression that the pH should be 8.2, and an alk of 10-11. This is what I get from the new mix that I am using. In reference to the idea that the pH would increase once the skimmers and pumps removed the CO2, I would like to say that it did not. After being in the tank for a week, the pH remained at 7.9. I origionally thought that there was a problem with my kit, and went to the LFS where I bought the mix. They tested it and told me that I was right. They then sold me DKH buffer and pH increaser to use with every water change.
I decided to find a salt mix that when mixed with RO/DI water would be closer to what would be considered normal for the tank.
I do not profess to know much about this hobby, as I am a relative newbie. All I really know about salt mixes is that with the Oceanic, I had low pH and KH, and with the new mix, I have 8.2 pH and 10 KH.
I hope that I am not wrong in the pH and KH that I am shooting for. Those are what the LFS told me I should get with the addition of the buffers.
There are two major LFS's int he Sacramento area. One is selling Oceanic for $70 a pail, and the other is $39 a pail. I got it from the $39 store and when I returned it, I asked how they could sell it so much cheaper than the store 2 blocks away. I was told that the discount pet supplier that bought out Oceanic was basicaly giving it away so stores would push it, and that they didn't see the neew to make 1000% profit when 500% would do.
If I am off base in this, I appologize. I am only going by what the LFS told me.

[Scooterman67]

http://kademani.com/reefchem.htm

[Yellotang]

Petsmart here locally sells the 90 gallon mix for $39.

[Scooterman67]

4.45 meq/l at 450 ppm for 100g tank.

Are you reading meq/l or dkh?

[jfinch]

Scooterman67, I see no reason to get caught up in thinking that calcium and alkalinity need to be balanced in that fashion (both ratio'd up from natural seawater). But to each his own, I guess.

I wonder how common a low pH is?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I was under the impression that the pH should be 8.2, and an alk of 10-11.

Low pH after aeration when there is adequate alkalinity is usually a function of the level of CO2 int he air, not a function of the salt mix itself.

The ocean has an alkalinity of about 7 dKH. IMO, a salt mix with between 7 and 11 dKH would be fine. If you want to find a mix with a higher alkalinity, that's fine too, but I wouldn't deem there to be a problem with a mix that was more like seawater.

I see no reason to get caught up in thinking that calcium and alkalinity need to be balanced in that fashion (both ratio'd up from natural seawater).

I agree. There is no inherent reason to think that an aquarium with a calcium level of 475 ppm has a different "optimal" alkalinity than one with a calcium level of 380 ppm.

[Coral_Geek]

Originally posted by BertGamble
I bought 2 of the 200gal pails, and just returned the unopened one today for store credit. As far as I am concerned, it needs a lot of work. When set to 1.025 sp grav. the calcium was good at 450, there was no NH3, NH4, NO2, NO3. The problem was that the pH was 7.9, with a dkh of 8 when mixed with ro/di water.
What method did you use to test pH. My mix is 8.3 usually after the mix is well dissolved. Also, where are you mixing? If you are in a closed garage or basement with a gas dryer or water heater you will introduce a lot of CO2. CO2 is heavier than most of the components of atmosphere so the "concentration" of CO2 will be greatest near the floor where you are most likely mixing.

[crlkeep]

There is no inherent reason to think that an aquarium with a calcium level of 475 ppm has a different "optimal" alkalinity than one with a calcium level of 380 ppm.

You do not feel that maintaining proportionate levels of Ca and Alk. is really all that important? Is there a limit at which the level of one of these elements will directly affect the level of the other one?

This is conditional on the levels remaining at these values I assume. Additions should still be made in a proportion to natural CaCO3 removal, correct? ( ie ~ 1 meq/L Alk / 20 ppm Ca++)

[hilgert]

FYI for all - I talked to someone at Oceanic Systems last week about their new salt mix - I had to hold for the "correct" person who is in charge of this product from a production standpoint, and it was well worth it.

He indicated that the salt mix contained everything they could get into it via "natural" methods (evaporation ponds were mentioned several times), but that there would be some elements that would not be the same as in seawater. One example was iodine, which in their explaination would likely be used up during the process biologicaly (I guess from all the critters than need iodine). He did say that they did not know how much "off" their mix would be from seawater, just that they make every effort to not introduce non-natural things in it except for calcium.

Also, when asked about the very attractive cost, he indicated that Oceanic was not "buying their way into the market" for sea salt mixes, but rather that they did not understand why OTHER salts were sold for so much. In their opinion they are selling the salt for what they consider to be a correct and fair price, and any discounting or price hikes would be at the discretion of dealers themselves.

Anyway, I am not an expert in this by any means (and I am sure I mucked some of this up), but hopefully this will help with the ongoing discussion.

[hammerhead]

If retail is 40$ for a 200 pail what are the dealers paying for it 20$?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You do not feel that maintaining proportionate levels of Ca and Alk.

No, I don't. That's why I show the optimal region below by a square, not some shape where the optimal calcium depends on alkalinity, etc:

Solving Calcium and Alkalinity Problems
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/images/nov2002/figure1.gif

Additions should still be made in a proportion to natural CaCO3 removal, correct? ( ie ~ 1 meq/L Alk / 20 ppm Ca++)

If you're at a good point to begin with, yes, that is true.

[crlkeep]

I am familiar with this chart, but I must have overlooked the fact that the square represented a range. :)

Thanks Randy.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You're welcome.

Happy Reefing. :)

[Scooterman67]

I guess I wasn't so clear either, I never try to hit the exact levels but let it come to a close range, as in the square.

[Dag]

The corralline algae was growing just fine in my 1-year old tank. The back wall was covered. In the last few weeks, it's been falling off in big pieces, like old paint falling off the wall. It hasn't turned white, just fallen off.

There have been no changes in the tank or water parameters recent past, except that I began switching to Oceanic salt. Is this a coincidence or has anyone else experienced something similar?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Sometimes it falls off when it is gowing rapidly. The sheet can expand on the top (facing out) and not the bottom (attached to the glass), that stresses it, and it peels away.

[JB NY]

I get better coralline growth using Oceanic than my other salt.

[Dag]

Thanks, Randy. Under your theory, the peeling away is a good sign and consistent with Joe's results.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, unless the coralline seems to be turning white, I wouldn't worry about it for now. :)