Ick just won't go

[maroun.c]

Hi all,
Now I'm really confused, Ick just keeps on going back no matter what I do, tank is 70 G fish only with 2 cleaner shrimps, fish are hippo tang, coral beauty, butterfly, maroon clown.
All water parameters are good, recently I kept the tank fishless for 6 weeks, during that time all fish were in the Q tank with copper tratment, at that time I had no shrimps, then the fish were returned and I soon saw spots on the tang followed by the coral beauty so I added the shrimps that helped a lot but not enough for the tang so I remooved the shrimps and then hyposalinity for 6 weeks and then I returned the shrimps, from then the tang was in good shape however few spots appeared and disappeared every now and then, but I kept him in the tank hoping for his immune system to start controling things,I add garlic oil powder to feedings like once a week and on consecutive days when I see spots on the fish, but it doesn't look as effective as they say. 2 weeks ago the spots increased a bit so I removed him to the Q tank and treated him with copper, the spots disappeared on the 4th day but I kept him there for 10 days, then back to the display tank, 2 days later here come the spots again (a few very small spots) and they increased and today he's all covered. The weard thing is that despite all his affections and the stress from transport to and from Q tank he never stops eating and swims really normal and is the dominant fish in the tank so I don't think any fish is a stressing factor for him. My question is what to do now do I transport him to the Q tank again, and why ain't the other fish in the tank affected by this white spot thing, it's suposed to be contagious (although I would hate to have other fish infected but it's really getting on my nerves to have my favorite fish always covered with white spots)
Could there be any stressing factor I should look for (I searched a lot but just can't find any)
Thanks for any help

[Aquamans Reef]

Tangs get ich more easily because they don't have scales like some other fish. Try to see where your stressor is comming from wether it be water parameters or another fish you might also want to consider getting a uv sterlizer to keep your ich at bay. HTH's Joe

[maroun.c]

Thanks for the help Joe, do you think I should keep it in the tank with all the other fish or quarantine and medicate it while searching for the stressor. Also I've seen Ick killing fish 2-3 days after the appearance of the spots why is it that my tang seem to coop with it, he's always eating and swimming and the other fish are not affected. And one more thing if it was water quality issue wouldn't the shrimps have shown signs of disease, aren't they much more sensitive than fish? mind you my 2 cleaner shrimps are like devils they wander all day long and follow every fish that passes by for a cleaning session and they really compete with the fish for every piece of food I through in.

[Aquamans Reef]

Yes, shrimp are more sensitive then fish but they don't get diseases they just die. I would remove the tang into the QT. How about your water temp. is it fluctuating from night to day. Mine went from 3-5 degrees before I got my chiller, this can also stress your fish. Are you feeding vitamin enriched foods at least a few times a week?
Parasites are always present in water its just when the fish gets stressed it reduces their immune system causing the attack of ich. Joe

[maroun.c]

Thanks again joe,
as to the temeprature fluctuation well it only varies 1-2 degrees between night and day, it's summer now my heater is off and water temperature is around 80.
As to feeding I feed my fish mussels and frozen artemia,krill and blood worms. I'm going to the lfs today to get some additionnal lighting, I'll check if they have some vitamin to add to fish food, also I feed nutrafin marine staple diet. I also put in some lettuce twice weekly, but i'll be looking for some nori today.

[billsreef]

Originally posted by maroun.c
why ain't the other fish in the tank affected by this white spot thing, it's suposed to be contagious

Just the Hippo tang is having this white spot problem?

Some time ago TerryB and some others (myself included) expressed some thoughts about Hippo Tangs having white spots problems simular in appearance to cryptocaryan infections but actually caused by something else. I wonder if that might be what is happening with your tang.

Any chance you can take skin scrapings from the tang to exmine under a microscope? Maybe even get some pictures if possible.

[maroun.c]

Hi bill, well I work in a hospital and it's rather easy to have someone (a pathologist) look at the scrapings, the difficult thing is that I have no idea of how tot ake them, also is it risky for the fish???
On more thing what should I be looking for under the microscope, there is no one in this whole country who is involved in examining any specimens from animals especially from fish, so it'll be me or the pathologist who will be looking at the slides, so what should we be looking for?
Thanks for the help and do you have a list of stress factors that I should look for, I can't find anything that is stressing this fish.
One more question, yesterday I increased my lighting (kind of doubled it for I'm preparing the tank to add some anemones) At first all the fish hid for a minute or two and then they acted normal will this cause any stress on them.
Thanks.

[billsreef]

Hi maroun,

Sorry I haven't replied earlier. Been working a crazy schedule. Recently got back from a vacation and they seem to have me on the vacation punishment scedule :(

Scrapings can be done by gently lifting the fish out of water in a wet a towel and lightly scraping the affeceted area with the edge of scapel or other type scraping instrument. All ways scrape going from head towards the tail. Typically scrapings are taken from the caudal peduncal (tail), the flanks of the fish, the base of the pectoral fins and the opercula.

The resulting smears should be prepared on the slide the same as for any other protozoan type parasite that your pathologist would be familiar with. If he can take any pictures that would be great.

A good book I've found available in the hobby is the "Handbook of Fish Diseases" by Dieter Untergasser. It is published by TFH and has lots of good pictures and info on preping slides and such.

HTH,

time for me to get my daughter to bed, not an easy task some nights ;)

[maroun.c]

Well I wouldn't mind switching roles, for they had no one but me on the schedule those last few days, the only difference is that it was work not vacation schedule. I went at work from friday night and could not leave till monday night.
However the good think is that I went home and as usual even before saying HI to anyone I went to check on the aquarium, don't know how or why, I found the tang to be free of any white spot. Although I'd like to know what's causing the outbreak and what's stopping it, I'd rather say I'm satisfied to see it like this. I sure do hope this will last (which I doubt) so The next time it'll have the ick i'll do the scrapings. I'll try to take some photos and will post them if I manage to have acceptable images.
Thanks for all the help.
Maroun.

[billsreef]

Ouch, you definately had the worse schedule.

Glad the tang is free of spots :)