Can drug addition really be overcome?

[purduefan]

I'm feeling very down right now and I need some encouragement. On November 16th, our son was busted for possession. The amount he had with him makes it a felony.
He spent the night in jail which gave him plenty of opportunity to think. He has admitted to being addicted to pot as well as being an alcoholic (He just turned 22). He says he wants to quit and get his life back on track. He's dropped out of college once, and flunked out once.
Hubster and I bailed him out of jail the next day, paid the retainer fee for a good attorney and have paid for professional counseling. The counselor recommended an "Intensive Outpatient Therapy" for our son, which he is willing to do. He still hasn't had his day in court yet to hear the official charges. But it could be even worse. In addition to the possession there could be: contributing and open container and let's not forget disregarding a traffic signal which is why he was pulled over in the first place. The only good news in this is that he tested under the legal limit for DUI. And he has been "clean" since then.
Does this therapy stuff really work? Can this addiction thing be beaten? Has anybody out there been through this sort of thing? He's our son and we love him and I pray he can get his life back on track. But I'm really worried.

[Qdoggie]

I dont usually come to this site, but Im glad. I may be able to give you advice...
As a police officer Ive dealt with many of people in your situation....

!. He may be telling you just what you want to hear.. Its easier to blame a "problem" such as addiction than just admitting a big mistake and taking responsibility for it. One doesnt want to let down his parents.....
2. The above could be a good thing. He may not really be addicted. If he is, the best therapy Ive seen work is the in house type. That is where he would be sent to a facility he could not leave from. Its intensive but allows him to concentrate on the issue at hand. They run anywhere from 2wks to 6months usually.
3. An important factor is environment. He needs a new set of friends and a new location to live or start over. This is if he is truly off the end. Realistically, he will not abandon his close friends. The choice is up to him. He needs to make the right decisions...
4. You CANT help someone if they dont want it...... Remember that ALWAYS. Doesnt matter how hard you try, believe me!!! Dont waste your time, effort, and money.. If hes not ready, hes not ready!!! Good Luck

[skippy2]

I am so sorry you are going through such a difficult time. I am proof positive that your son can quit. But, and it's a big but, he has to want to on his own. Therapy will definately help but it has to be his decision. He says he wants the help but it might be only because he knows that is what the Judge wants to hear.
I was doing coke and drinking 24/7 7 years ago. I may have a drink once in awhile-maybe 5 times a year-but I have not done any type of drug in 7 years.
Definately get him into therapy. All you can do is take it one day at a time. My ex (single father with 2 teenagers) still gets drunk and who knows what else. This is after going through treatment programs and numerous times in jail.
Good luck to your family. A united front is what is needed here.

[NTidd]

My parents always told me that they wouldn't bail me out of jail, let alone pay for a lawyer to try to get me out of the place I put myself. It is very possible to overcome these addictions, however I don't think that an addiction to marijuana is that strong, and that shouldn't be difficult to overcome, alcohol on the other hand is. The first step he should do is look at his friends and find out what kind of an influence they are on him, good or bad, I'm guessing the second of the two.

[musicsmaker]

Concentrate on the alcohol, and try not to be too worried about the weed. If you try to treat an "addiction" to weed you are wasting your time. Society has probably led you to believe that weed is worse than alcohol, but believe me this is not the case. Alcohol can be a very serious problem, and yes it can be beaten.

[skeletor121]

I agree with everyone above. You cannot help someone that doesn't want it. It is also true that you cannot have a physical addiction to marijuana like you would other drugs (alcohol and other drugs like coke). The addiction you get from marijuana is all mental/psychological (i.e. he likes the feeling, not physical need for the drug). I know a lot of people who have had problems, mostly with alcohol. The best thing for you to do is support him, if he really wants to change. If he really means business get him into a treatment facility. When he gets out do not have any alcohol near him when you are with him. I have an uncle that has been alcohol free for around 10 years. He said the best thing for him was having a supportive family around that didn't turn their backs on him when he needed them the most. Hopefully everything works out for you.

[BrianD]

Couple of things:

Is the statement that you cannot have a physical addiction to marijuana an opinion, or is this medically certifiable?

I have a client who spent over $200,000 trying to get his son to give up various drugs (from the ages of 25-35). Let's just say it wasn't money well spent.

Brian

[NTidd]

Originally posted by BrianD
Couple of things:

Is the statement that you cannot have a physical addiction to marijuana an opinion, or is this medically certifiable?

I have a client who spent over $200,000 trying to get his son to give up various drugs (from the ages of 25-35). Let's just say it wasn't money well spent.

Brian

The problem is the person has to want to quit using marijuana, if they want to quit, they can.

[purduefan]

Thanks everyone. I will admit that the alcohol thing scares me more than the pot. He is very young to be drinking himself into a stupor every night. Thank God he didn't hurt/kill someone or himself when he was behind the wheel of a car. I think the night in jail really scared BJ. I believe him when he says he's been "clean" for over a month. I'm almost positive there has been no alcohol. He moved back in with us and we don't have any in the house at the moment. I guess part of me just feels so helpless. As a Mom, I want to do things for my kids -- but I know he has to do this on his own. We'll help him by making sure he has the help he needs available for him -- but its up to him to use it. But it is getting pretty expensive too -- we're already over $4,000 and the Intensive Therapy is about $3,000 more. We really can't afford it either because I'm going back to grad school in a couple of weeks. But, how can I put a price on my son's life? If he takes this opportunity -- it'll be worth it. I guess we just watch, wait and pray. You know, the disappointment thing really hurts though. Thanks for listening.

[MiddletonMark]

See what the state/area offers [maybe talk to the lawyer yourself about it?].

My experience says both can be beat - if he wants to try. If he doesn't, it won't happen. But serious consequences [and the threat of them] can be a real eye opener.

Where I live, there is a program that one can plea into when facing felony charges.

Essentially you are pleaing guilty with the court - all put on hold to enter either of these programs. Successful completion of the program means either complete dismissal of the charges [aka gone from record] or major reduction of the charges to misdemeanors and `time served'.

They are not easy, require a fair bit of time ... but do cover counseling, require time every few weeks at court with other program people, judge, and D.A. to review how folks are doing ... and random UA testing [peeing in a cup, breathing in a tube].

Success rates are great, as your second `dirty' test results in a night in jail, third 2 nights or removal from the program [and thus having signed something pleading guilty & thus straight to sentencing].

Personally, I was able to totally `void' a felony charge, after a year of doing the counseling they recommended, testing `clean' the whole time ... and having a year to reconsider where I was/ was going in my life. Yes, on occasion I do drink [but don't drive] ... and on rare occasions do more. Yet ... I value my clear head, my friends who proved to be real friends, and have channelled all my energy into reefing and my personal life.

It's not an easy road [gets easier after a while, for sure] ... but if he wants it, it can happen. Quite a number of people on RC are proof positive of that.

And all I can say is - thank god for the democrats and all their social programs. This program has been nearly cut a couple of times - and I can say I would have benefitted none from sitting in a cement box for a while - and benefitted greatly from keeping my job, keeping my home, and given a chance to get my head straight. Worked for me!

[jwm2k3]

Ok, about the addictiveness of weed....I smoked it everyday for 12 years straight, never missed a day. A few times I tried to take a day off. Not possible for me. My mind would churn until I rationalized why it was OK to smoke, until I did. It started to catch up to me. I was very angry when I wasnt high. I was fighting with my bosses at work, my co-workers, I was yelling at my young daughters, fighting with my wife, etc. As soon as I would get high, I wasnt angry anymore, but still didnt want to hear any BS from anyone. I wouldnt listen to anything anyone had to say. I would get a ration of crap from my wife, then just run away and get high. Terrible. I eventually lost the best job I ever had, went to another job, failed the drug test but they let me stay on. That one lasted 20 days. Went to another place, needed to complete a drug test, tried to fake it with synthetic urine, didnt work, lost that one too. That was 5 days. I knew there was a very serious problem. I couldnt stop, I wanted to. I was ashamed of myself. My family was being effected, my daughter were afraid of me because of my yelling all the time. Yelling about really stupid stuff.

I finally fessed up to my mother.(she and I are close) When I told her, she said she knows and she had seen it 100's of times. I told her I needed to stop and I couldnt. I couldnt pass a drug test. I was stuck. When I finally decided to stop right then and there, my mind made my body crave the drug. Psychosomatic? I FELT, with my body that I was in need of this drug. I know most think that it isnt physically addictive. Maybe it isnt. But I had full on body/physical need for the stuff. It may have been psychosomatic, but maybe not.

Its been about 5 months without, I feel better, I act better. My kids love me again and are not afraid. My marrage is strong and we are very affectionate now, whereas before she was disgusted by the smell of the weed and really hated the dumb look on my face all the time.

I completely have permenant effects from it. I cant remember lots of things. It still bothers me.

I needed to alienate my smoking friends(which was just about all of them) and remove it from my life completely.

So far so good. Dont give up on your son. Money means NOTHING in life. Family means EVERYTHING. Life is better this way...

[BigBird]

I've got to agree with jwm2k3, pot isn't as harmless has some folks make it out to be. The simple fact is that living life in an inebriated state is incredibly destructive to your self esteem and development and it's re

BTW: jwm2k3, congrats on kicking the habit!!!! Stick to your choice like glue -- a strong, happy family is a better reward than an endless buzz:) :)

Purduefan: my jurisdiction offers first-time non violent offenders the chance to participate in a year-long treatment program through a "drug court." If the participant completes the program successfully, the charges are often greatly reduced or dismissed. If that choice is available to you, I encourage you to take it. It's not the easiest program to complete, but its worth it.

Afterward, you might encourage your son to consider the military. If nothing else, he'll get into shape and be in an environment which, while not completely free of drugs, is not conducive at all to drug use. Not to mention the fact that he'll be away from all the friends who are currently enabling his drug and alcohol use.

[purduefan]

Thanks!
Jwm2k3 -- it's interesting that you talked about being so angry. One thing I noticed about BJ was that he always seemed to be ****ed about something. Even small things that he used to laugh off would send him into a cursing fit. I couldn't even talk to him AT ALL (not that I expected a 21/22 year old to be my best friend). He was mean and hateful about 98% of the time.

I'm starting to believe that intensive counseling is the help BJ needs. But it's up to him to TAKE it.

It's also interesting that the military was mentioned. BJ's younger brother went into the Navy in November I know Jay has talked to BJ about the military -- Hmmmmm.

Any suggestions about what hubster and I could/should do for BJ other than encourage, love, (and pay for counseling)? Again, I feel so helpless -- I want to DO something to help. I guess that's just the mom thing kicking in.

[SteveMH]

If he needs help with alcohol, and he is really ready to help himself, there's always an AA meeting he can go to. That doesn't cost anything, and in my experience was far more helpful than any rehab I was ever in. It saved my life, and very possibly the lives of others around me. You don't ever beat it, but he will learn how to deal with it. He has to be ready though.

[chipmunk]

Ever notice that the folks arguing the hardest that pot is harmless and non-addictive are the ones smoking it?

I spent a decade and a half being close friends with cigarettes, booze and pot.

6 years clean and sober.

I didn't need therapy, but some people NEED it. If your kid needs it, he needs it. But in the end, the victory needs to be won on his own. Only he can quit. He can only quit if he wants to quit it.

If he says, "Mom, dad, I'll really try hard." He's already failed.

Some people fail a few times before succeeding.

I'll tell you this much though, and those who have personal experience please tell me if I'm right or wrong here. When the moment comes, the moment the addiction loses it's hold on you, and you take permanent control of your life...it's like a switch in your head that goes from off to on, in a split second. In that split second you realize your life is too valuable a thing to waste. Once that switch is flipped on you truly start living on your own terms.

[musicsmaker]

Originally posted by chipmunk
Ever notice that the folks arguing the hardest that pot is harmless and non-addictive are the ones smoking it? FTR, "clean" for 2 years here. Smoked every day for 8.

[chipmunk]

Originally posted by musicsmaker
FTR, "clean" for 2 years here. Smoked every day for 8. Good for you! So speaking from experience, would you say that pot is harmless and non addictive?

[Flanders]

I didn't need therapy, but some people NEED it.

If you quit on your own, personally, I don't think you were addicted. Addicts can't quit on their own. Congratulations on ridding yourself of three bad habits. Seriously.

Ever notice that the folks arguing the hardest that pot is harmless and non-addictive are the ones smoking it?

Along with the doctors and scientists who are studying it and anyone who knows anything about it. Anything can be harmful in insane quantities. Anything mind-altering has the potential to be harmful. That's why you have to be sensible about it. Some people aren't capable of doing that. Those people need to quit. That does not make the substance itself physically addictive, or particularly harmful.

[MiddletonMark]

Originally posted by chipmunk
Ever notice that the folks arguing the hardest that pot is harmless and non-addictive are the ones smoking it?

I've been clean a while - and I disagree with this. Personally, alcohol, or even nicotine are more affecting than pot. I found it much harder to give up either of these [and more harmful effects] than pot - which wasn't easy to give up but once `gone' was not a big issue [over a decade-long use, including a number of `daily' years].

And to me `trying' is a very important step, if really trying. Honest truth is that one can't `just give it up' without possibility for using again. One can get on that path, but few never stumble and never touch it again.

Most who do give it up for a while never go back like it was before. Yep, I still do every now and then [after court-related issues, going through a court program of enforced year-long abstinence]. However, like said above - once you get your life clear of any of these ... that potential for abuse, after a while, IMO, is gone. Soon enough you don't want to give up control, except for few `special' occasions. Not being able to interact meaningfully and coherently, losing control ... once you've got full control you rarely want to let that go.

Or so my experience is ... with situations like this - it's totally individual. His story is his story ... somewhat relating to others - but totally unique too.

I wish you all luck. Take it day by day, don't hold onto the past - look to the future :D

[SteveMH]

Originally posted by chipmunk
I'll tell you this much though, and those who have personal experience please tell me if I'm right or wrong here. When the moment comes, the moment the addiction loses it's hold on you, and you take permanent control of your life...it's like a switch in your head that goes from off to on, in a split second. In that split second you realize your life is too valuable a thing to waste. Once that switch is flipped on you truly start living on your own terms.

I don't even know how long it's been, but it's at least over ten years sober for me and I still have to be careful. I know my problem was I didn't know how, or want to, deal with life in general. Once I learned how to do that I found it to be much easier to live sober and enjoy my life. The addiction is always there for me, but I know now the things that can trigger it and how I can control that.

[chipmunk]

Originally posted by SteveMH
I don't even know how long it's been, but it's at least over ten years sober for me and I still have to be careful. I know my problem was I didn't know how, or want to, deal with life in general. Once I learned how to do that I found it to be much easier to live sober and enjoy my life. The addiction is always there for me, but I know now the things that can trigger it and how I can control that.
Exactly. But you know that only you can flip that switch the other way...by pouring yourself a shot. If you ever fall, it'll be your own doing. The Devil won't be there with a pistol to your head saying "drink or die."

BTW, congrats on your 10 years sober. You da man.

[BrianD]

Along with the doctors and scientists who are studying it and anyone who knows anything about it.

Au contraire

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html

[chipmunk]

Originally posted by MiddletonMark
I've been clean a while - and I disagree with this. Personally, alcohol, or even nicotine are more affecting than pot. I found it much harder to give up either of these [and more harmful effects] than pot - which wasn't easy to give up but once `gone' was not a big issue [over a decade-long use, including a number of `daily' years].

I wasn't comparing it to cigs and booze. Why is it that everytime someone argues that pot is harmless that they compare it to other drugs?

You folks are missing the point.

I'm talking about pot in and of itself. Even you admit it wasn't easy to give up. For you, what "wasn't easy" can be near impossible for someone with less control than you.

[NH3]

Originally posted by BrianD
Couple of things:

Is the statement that you cannot have a physical addiction to marijuana an opinion, or is this medically certifiable?

I have a client who spent over $200,000 trying to get his son to give up various drugs (from the ages of 25-35). Let's just say it wasn't money well spent.

Brian


Medically certifiable.

[chipmunk]

Originally posted by Flanders
That does not make the substance itself physically addictive, or particularly harmful. I didn't say it was physically addictive. I was talking about the mental dependance.

And before you say, "Chocalate can be mentally addictive, should we outlaw it?" I'm not saying we should outlaw pot. I'm only saying pot is harmful and addictive. I'm not pushing any politcal agenda.

[MiddletonMark]

Ok, so one guy says it's bad. There are very few good U.S. studies on it.

Let's just compare that with alcohol use [heavy] ... or shall we say nicotine. IMO, it's just a joke to relate them.

Anyway - back to her son. To me, hardest to quit will be alcohol, given it's huge social use and the difficulty finding friends who don't drink or engage in bad behavior with alcohol. That IME is the hardest part of it ... as so much of culture [young people] is centered on bars, drinking, and the such. It's easy enough to find people who don't imagine relaxing with a joint in their hand ... but without a beer in their hand is much harder.

Doable, but harder. Likely most of his friends he will have to realize aren't really friends at all. A suprising couple will likely still be the good friends he thinks ... but I found quite a shift in who really cared when I needed to quit. Those that stuck by me ... now those are REAL friends. But the majority ... not :(

[musicsmaker]

BrianD, that link has "law" in the name of it. Maybe just a little biased? Maybe just a little BS?

Chipmunk ~
Honestly, it was easy. It's a fun thing to do that you think about when you are not doing it (like sex, taking a nice long ride on the Honda, or skiing), and that's about it. It wasn't easy to quit when someone else wanted me to, but when I decided I had enough I pretty much just put it down. Harmless? Maybe not completely (what really is?), but it's nothing like what they teach kids in school, and it's not even a fraction as harmful as alcohol. That was my original comment; concentrate on the alcohol.

I can (used to) start smoking first thing in the morning and not stop all day long. At the end of the day I could walk, talk, balance my checkbook, ace my test, you name it. Talk to someone who started drinking first thing in the morning, and there is no mistaking their intoxication level.

[MiddletonMark]

Well put MM ... when YOU decide to quit ... it's not that hard. When forced to [or before you realize you really like a clear head] ... it's hard.

I had no problem with 12 months of `forced' sobriety ... as quickly I realized I was just as happy without it as with it. I decided to do it ... and it was easy.

You can't `make' your son want it, maybe help wake him up to the perks of not being messed up ... but despite how badly you want it ... all you can do is make every day as positive as possible. Really, listen when needed, but IMO don't push. He doesn't need a lecture, he needs to have just plain ol' clear-headed fun.

[Flanders]

Brian - that link you posted is about the use of marijuana by people with severe health disorders. This is solely about medical marijuna from what I can tell, and IMO has no bearing on this discussion. :confused:

Even so, I think that doctor's argument is a bit backwards. When you look at pot's possible danger to the immune system in terms of chemo and radiation therapy, RU 486 (soon to be available over the counter) just for starters, it puts things in perspective. We KNOW those things are dangerous, yet each is effective in its particular application. But that's unrelated to this thread.

If you are truly interested in reading some recent studies with data about the "dangers" of marijuana, I can dig up some informative links. If you've already made up your mind, I won't bother.

[Imaexpat2]

Odoggie has some good advice. It dont buy off on the marijuana addiction from a physical dependency point, although almost anything can be mentally addicting for sure. Bottom line is, he will have to help his self before anyone else can help him. I worked SDPD for 7 years and can attest to that fact. But another fact that I can attest to is before I joined the military in the early 80's, I had 4-6K a week habit!!! If I can beat it - so can he, when he is READY to.... It will take a lot of determination on his part and a serious life style change or he will end up back in square 1 again, if not worse. Dont under estimate the things in the previous sentence. Those were the two biggest factors in my turning my life around in no uncertain terms!

I hope the best for you and him, good luck!

[BrianD]

LOL, the fact that it has "law" in the link means it is untrue? LMAO! You're kidding, right?

Flanders, the article is related to medical use of marijuana and whether the health risks are worth the claimed benefits. Surely you are joking when you say you can't see the relevance. No thanks, I don't need any links. I am not trying to rationalize my beliefs ;)

[PK]

Hi There....so sorry to hear about your son....a real heartbreaker, to be sure. Check out the following link:

http://www.teenchallenge.com

It's a GREAT program (not just for teens, btw). And it boasts the best success rate in the world for sustained recovery. I know a LOT of people who have gone through this program....years ago....are are clean today!

Best part: it's FREE !!!

See ya,

PK

[Flanders]

Surely you are joking when you say you can't see the relevance.

Surely you must be joking if you think there is any relevance. There is no discussion of medical marijuana going on here. I am not a doctor and have no idea if marijuana has any medical benefit.

From the article:

"Obviously, this suggests the conclusion, which is well-supported by scientific studies, that the use of marijuana as a medical therapy can and does have a very serious negative effect on patients with pre-existing immune deficits resulting from AIDS, organ transplantation, or cancer chemotherapy..."

Explain to me how the dangers of someone with full-blown AIDS and a suppressed immune system smoking a joint every day is relevant in this discussion. I am not joking.

[joeychitwood]

To an addict, any chemical which can alter your mental state is addictive, period.

Pot, coke, alcohol, tobacco, Coricidin cold pills, meth, opiates, Listerine, Lysol, and countless other substances are used by people every day to escape the pain they feel when they don't have the drug or a way to deal with life.

Try telling a group of recovering addicts that pot isn't addictive and you'll get laughed out of the room. We all held that belief right up to the door of the treatment center.

I went through treatment for narcotic and alcohol addiction 17 years ago. It was the hardest thing I have ever done. My chemically dependent personality continues to be a daily influence on my life, behavior and decisions. It never goes away, and relapse is always one dose or one drink away.

Once again, I think this person is asking questions with life or death consequences. 90% of addicted people eventually die of the effects or consequences of their addicition. She doesn't need amateur advice from those who maintain and present personal beliefs as facts.

I'd take this as seriously as if your son had been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer....because the survival rate is about the same. Do what you can to help him, but ultimately, it's up to him to quit and maintain sobriety. It's a lifetime commitment.

[BrianD]

Please. The sentence you pulled out merely addresses how marijauna use can harm those with immune system issues. That is a very small part of the article, and is in no way the theme of the article.

You made the comment that no one who studies the drug believes it is unsafe. This article (one of many I found with a quick search) is one of many that cites medical professionals who would disagree. I am not interested in playing doctor and debating who is right or wrong. The point is that your implication that there is some universal acceptance of the safety of marijauna is wrong.

[BrianD]

Thanks Joey!

[joeychitwood]

OK, I'm a doctor and an addict. Everything I know about pot medically and personally is that it is addictive. Physical or psychological? Who cares!

Cocaine isn't physically addicting in the same sense as alcohol or opiates, but I wouldn't recommend it because of that fact.

You can easily and quickly die of the effects of a psychologically addicting chemical. Just ask the parents and spouses of many of my now-dead drug friends.

[Cuervo]

Over the years I have been in close proximity to drugs and the people who use them quite often.

I think what is being overlooked in this entire argument is the fact that drugs (doesn't matter which.. ALL DRUGS.) affect every individual differently. This definitely includes the main effect, side affects, and addictiveness.

I've seen this with my own eyes on many, many occasions.

It's taught to all doctors.. they have to taken it into account when prescribing drugs for their patients.

I myself was a daily smoker for a good 7 or 8 years, and I feel I was lucky in that it never had a major drastic negative impact on my life. One day I woke up and was simply over it. I tried smoking a couple of times since then and just didn't "feel right" so I dropped it completely.

Many people are not like me though. I've known friends who felt they had to have it... some people feel sick when they go without.

I have to agree with the other posters above though - A person cannot and will not quit until they are ready. No amount of treatment, rehabs, or anything else is going to make them stop.

I hope that your son is being honest with you when he says that he is ready to quit with his use. I would say that you will know soon enough. I feel you should take advantage of this opportunity to show him that you care and are willing to support him and also to expose him to the resources available for helping him. (AA, NA, Therapy.. etc) Because if it helps him to stop now that would be great, but if not he will at least be aware that there are places he can go for help down the road.

Joe

[Flanders]

Please. The sentence you pulled out merely addresses how marijauna use can harm those with immune system issues. That is a very small part of the article, and is in no way the theme of the article.

I did not say it was the theme of the article. It is only one example of how that article does not apply to this discussion. There are others. I did not mean to imply that no one who studies the drug deems it unsafe, as I know that is not true, many studies are politically motivated. However, the most recent studies have been very positive.

My response was meant only as a rebuttal to the implication that anyone who thinks it's safe is obviously smoking it. That is false.

Let's agree to disagree and hope purduefan's son will get the help he needs, if he ends up needing it. I will stop being a drain on this discussion.

Sorry.

[BrianD]

Me sorry too. (good grammar ;) )

hope purduefan's son will get the help he needs

AGREED!

[purduefan]

Thanks everyone -- you all are as good as a therapist (for me). BJ went to his first session tonight. He says he wants this and needs this. OK -- so far so good. I started talking about work (so I wouldn't be pushing). He said since he's been straight his sales have started increasing (he works a commission sales job -- no sales, no $$). I congratulated him on his increased sales. He wondered aloud if being clean had anything to do with it.
That was the tough part for me. To be honest guys, I'm from a family that ALWAYS speaks their mind. Keeping my mouth shut was the toughest thing I have done in a long time.
It pains me to say this, but I don't know my son anymore. I used to be able to "read" both of my children -- but BJ is like a closed book to me right now. He's saying all the "right" things, he's doing all the "right" things, but only he knows if it's just a sham. Let me tell you though, it hurts my husband and I pretty badly. We have spent several nights this past month just crying in each other's arms. Not only for what our son has done, is going through, but also because we know we are absolutely helpless to help him. It's not like when he was little and we could put a bandaid on a boo boo and rock him till he felt better. I don't mean to offend anyone with this next statement, but for those of you who believe in the power of prayer, I would certainly appreciate some. We've got until about the end of February, middle of March with this therapy program, I'll try to keep everyone posted. Again, thanks for the support - I really appreciate it.
Debbie

[PK]

Originally posted by purduefan
... I don't mean to offend anyone with this next statement, but for those of you who believe in the power of prayer, I would certainly appreciate some. ...

Advice? I'm not always so good at that..... prayer? Now THAT, I can do! Count on it, and keep us posted so we can pray intelligently....

Blessings,

PK

[billwynne]

I'll chime in to agree with steveMH and others. Anyone who really wants to stop-booze or weed-can do it thru AA. I'm 55 and have been clean and sober almost 25 years. There are kids in some of my meetings as young as your son. Those who want to be clean and sober, are. Good luck

[Cakepro]

Originally posted by Flanders
If you quit on your own, personally, I don't think you were addicted. Addicts can't quit on their own.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I absolutely disagree. A near-fatal OD of something as seemingly harmless as ecstasy can indeed be the motivation one needs to stop everything cold turkey without therapy or treatment ~ even a QP per week pot habit in which psychological addiction is unbelievably powerful.

Take my word on that.

Your son and your family are most certainly in our prayers, purduefan. I really hope your son wants it, because I do not believe sobriety can be forced upon someone who truly does not want to be sober.

Sherri

[slipknottin]

Originally posted by BrianD

Flanders, the article is related to medical use of marijuana and whether the health risks are worth the claimed benefits. Surely you are joking when you say you can't see the relevance. No thanks, I don't need any links. I am not trying to rationalize my beliefs ;)

That article is such a good article, the author even put his name! The entire article is based on the information from two websites. Hardly the most accurate thing in the world.

The only real argument against making marijuana legal is 'the right of people to choose.'

You have the right to eat junk food, the right to drink alcohol (assuming your of legal age), etc etc. In what cirmstances should the goverment prevent people from having a choice? And why?

[BrianD]

The entire article is based on the information from two websites.

I don't have a dog in this fight, so it really doesn't matter to me what you believe, but the article was based on far more than "two websites". Numerous studies and sources were given for the assertions made. Again, I have no desire to debate this issue, but it appears to me that some people have blinders on.

Also, the fact that the author's name is mentioned diminishes his credibility? See above ;) Perhaps the fact that the link also contains "Harvard" (who ever heard of Harvard) means it is all untrue.

[MiddletonMark]

Brian, I don't think you should need to be hearing this ... but this whole discussion is NOT about whether pot is addictive. Never was, is or will be. DROP IT!

How about actually saying something that's helpful to purduefan?

If you just focus on `pot is bad, pot is bad' ... who the hell cares? Yep, someone is always going to argue with you ... but frankly, given the amount of personal experience [those who have quit] with pot on this thread ... uh, your study means little to most.

Come on, be the mature person, and let's get back to purduefan, ok? Or do you really have to win this point? Maybe you can start a discussion on this in the religion and political forum ... as that's what it is. Sorry, this research I believe as much as Dr. Ron's salt study ...

---

As for purduefan .... it's good to hear that you are trying not to ask too much. It's a hard thing to give this stuff up, to move away from those old patterns ... and while you're a wonderful mother - I can tell you that having my own mother involved in anything still can drive me mad.

I don't know what you can do to get him doing things that he enjoys, distracts him ... at least for the next few weeks. I found during my initial `clean-time' that it was really helpful to have [and find new things] that I really enjoyed and I could spend lots of time with. Personally, setting up a new tank was a good way to spend time, I went camping/hiking a lot, played soccer a lot ... just did a lot of things that `ate up' my time that I enjoyed.

With a busy schedule of non-`wasted' things to do, counseling, etc ... pretty soon he'll realize that it's been 1 month [or more] and hasn't been terrible to be sober. If it's a daily struggle, boring, without any release ... I fear he won't last long.

Activity, athletics ... I found both really good for working off the stress and toxins from going chemical free. But right now ... I'd say anything that he can get into ... encourage.

And we're thinking of you. I can't imagine where you're at, but just know that there are quite a number of people ON THIS THREAD who have done what your son needs to do. Whether this time, or in the future, he will likely beat this.

[BrianD]

Middleton Mark,

Brian, I don't think you should need to be hearing this ... but this whole discussion is NOT about whether pot is addictive. Never was, is or will be. DROP IT!

Are you clueless? Where did I make one comment about whether pot was addictive. Right. I didn't. So keep your "drop it" to yourself.

How about actually saying something that's helpful to purduefan?

This is a discussion board. If someone makes comments that are questionable, expect others to respond. If you don't like it, don't read the posts. Simple.

If you just focus on `pot is bad, pot is bad' ... who the hell cares?

Once again, it would help if you actually knew what you were talking about before speaking. I didn't make that comment, and made it clear that I was merely offering contradictory evidence to the comment that there is some universal agreement that marijuana is safe. People can make up their own minds. Unlike you, I don't need to decide for them.

Yep, someone is always going to argue with you ... but frankly, given the amount of personal experience [those who have quit] with pot on this thread ... uh, your study means little to most.

I have to wonder at your level of vitriol. It isn't my "study". I am so glad you are able to speak for "most" :rolleyes:

Come on, be the mature person

Yes, please, why won't you?

Or do you really have to win this point?

Do you actually read other posts before you comment?

Sorry, this research I believe as much as Dr. Ron's salt study

Sorry, I missed hearing your medical qualifications to make those judgements. Could you pass those along? Oh, wait...you are a graphic designer. ...How silly of me not to acknowledge your expertise in this area.

[MiddletonMark]

Well, purduefan ... I guess I don't feel like my input is accepted here. I feel a lot of sympathy, as someone who has overcome your son's situation. He will do it ... and I wish you lots of luck, strength, and patience ... it's not an easy road, but what a great thing once this `storm' is passed :D

---
And Brian, thanks for helping purduefan.

[Flanders]

purduefan -- when I was trying to quit smoking cigarettes, I took up running. Exercise can really help to take your mind off these things, and can provide sort of a natural high. This would be a good time for your son to take up (insert sport or activity he used to enjoy) again.

If he enjoys reading, get him some books. Most people don't smoke pot and read books, so I doubt he's been reading much lately. Those are just two ideas I had last night.

[joeychitwood]

It is very true that drug addiction is a compulsive behavior carried on by obsessive compulsive people.

The OC personality will remain long after drug use stops, assuming it does, so your son will need to find other, non-harmful activities to be compulsive about.

Most former addicts throw themselves into hobbies, work, excercise or other life activities where the obsession isn't considered harmful by society. It is unlikely that he will be able to totally give up OC behaviors, so help him find an acceptable substitute.

[jwm2k3]

Originally posted by joeychitwood
It is very true that drug addiction is a compulsive behavior carried on by obsessive compulsive people.

The OC personality will remain long after drug use stops, assuming it does, so your son will need to find other, non-harmful activities to be compulsive about.

Most former addicts throw themselves into hobbies, work, excercise or other life activities where the obsession isn't considered harmful by society. It is unlikely that he will be able to totally give up OC behaviors, so help him find an acceptable substitute.


Agreed. I quit smoking pot and started eating big time. Im 20 lbs heavier since quitting......

[slipknottin]

Originally posted by BrianD
I don't have a dog in this fight, so it really doesn't matter to me what you believe...

Again, I have no desire to debate this issue, but it appears to me that some people have blinders on.

Seems you have taken sides.


Also, the fact that the author's name is mentioned diminishes his credibility?
It does diminish the articles credibility a great deal. If you wanted to use an article to support your arguments at least use one that is decent.- http://www.drugs.indiana.edu/druginfo/tashkin-marijuana.html

BTW- That original article only links to four different websites. www.sarnia.com/GROUPS/ANTIDRUG (which is extremely biased, just look at the main page.. this is the quote right in front "If marijuana is medicine, Dr. Kevorkian wrote the prescription!"
Don Feder, columnist, Boston herald 4/2/01")
www.marijuananews.com (both links given on the site dont exist, so much for unbiased linking, eh?)
http://www.adf.org.au/drughit- which is just contradictory ("Like all drugs, alcohol can cause problems when consumption is not controlled.... Remember: there is no safe level of drug use.)
http://www.health.org- brought to you by the US department of health, gee, considering its a website brought to you by the US govt, and the US govt is against marijuana, did you think they would say anything else?

The only real link that article supplies at all is the indiana university research, which I listed above.

BTW- most of the side effects listed are saying this is what happens when you smoke the drug. If the drug was legalized and the price dropped to a resonable level, people would eat the drug instead. No more immune and respiratory illinesses.

[Wolverine]

Originally posted by slipknottin
BTW- most of the side effects listed are saying this is what happens when you smoke the drug. If the drug was legalized and the price dropped to a resonable level, people would eat the drug instead. No more immune and respiratory illinesses.

Two points here. One is that there's no evidence that people will switch to eating versus smoking.

The more important point is that the immune effects will still happen, even without smoking. That article discusses the alveolar macrophages, since the article itself is based on smoking, so those are most relevant. However, THC still has effects on white blood cells within the body (and the gut).

Dave

[slipknottin]

Originally posted by Wolverine
Two points here. One is that there's no evidence that people will switch to eating versus smoking.


Of course there is evidence of that. If you could get a whole pound of it for $1, wouldnt you eat it if the health risks were much lower?

"As noted above, alveolar macrophages from the lungs of healthy, habitual marijuana smokers were suppressed in their ability to kill fungaland bacterial organisms, as well as tumor cells."

If you eat it, how exactly is it going to affect your lungs? :lol:


So let me get this straight, you favor outlawing the substance because it might reduce your immune systems ability to fight things off (this is the only thing it would do if eaten) But you favor keeping things like alcohol and mcdonalds legal? What reasoning are you doing here?

[Wolverine]

Originally posted by slipknottin
Of course there is evidence of that. If you could get a whole pound of it for $1, wouldnt you eat it if the health risks were much lower?

Well, that's assuming they don't jack up the price for the "edible" kind. That also removes the "cool" factor of smoking.

If you eat it, how exactly is it going to affect your lungs? :lol:

Reread what I said. It will affect the immune system. There are other macrophages throughout your body. They are a critical component to the immune system.THC will also be delivered the the lungs through the blood, so even those macrophages will be affected. The difference is that the effects won't be as concentrated in that area. THC is also known to effect natural killer cells, which are critical in combating cancer and viruses.


So let me get this straight, you favor outlawing the substance because it might reduce your immune systems ability to fight things off (this is the only thing it would do if eaten) But you favor keeping things like alcohol and mcdonalds legal? What reasoning are you doing here?

Let me suggest again that you reread what I wrote. Did I ever say I favored either outlawing it or legalizing it? I don't think I did.
All I did was point out the problems with that statement you made.

Dave

[chipmunk]

Addiction has different degrees.

I heard something about a crackhead fella telling a pothead at AA that he (the pothead) wasn't a true addict. That the pothead didn't know addiction until he had to resort to performing "services" on other men to support his habit.

Look, just because you haven't hit rock bottom, doesn't mean you aren't addicted.

[BrianD]

Sure Slipknottin, whatever you say ;)

[cwegescheide]

Hi PurdueFan,

I am sorry for the stress that your going thru right now with your son. You told me when I was at your place picking up your 90 gallon tank you had one at home that was stressing you out. I just wanted to give you some words of encouragement.

1st of all Marijuana IS NOT physically addictive. My background is in the medical field and as part of my training I read about stuff like this and it is definatley not. Also WHILE I WAS IN COLLEGE :) I smoked almost every day (not exgjerating and not proud of it) for probably the better part of two years. I was about your sons age when I was doing it too. I know my mother was not very happy about it and scared for my future and all that stuff like you are your son. Truth be told I would probably be in the medical field right now if I would not have gotten into pot and being a general idiot in college but all things seem to work out somehow.

I finally grew out of it and I think I am doing ok for myself now. I have a great carreer and I will honestly say that I have not touched that stuff since college. I think he's probably just having a good time being young and irresponsible and will snap out of it. Maybe this deal with getting busted will scare the hell out of him and this could be his wake up call.

You and your husband seem like really nice people and I hope that everything works out for you. Good luck and take care.

[cwegescheide]

Oh yeah! And look on the bright side.....

You will never have to worry about your son getting GLAUCOMA!:D

Just kiddin. Just wanted to make you :)

[Myladyfish]

PurdueFan, cwegescheide is right... pot is no physical addiction, it's mental addiction. If you're curious why people smoke pot, it's because they have a good time doing it while not realizing/ too lazy of thinking about consequences. I always laughed without reasons whenever I potted with my friends a year ago... my friends could just be silent and do nothing and I'd laugh at his face, we all laughed to death, really good times. But others do pot because they want to relax and be cool... all these fun are happening at the moment they forget what bad things could happen to them. It makes one think slower, but it DOES NOT make them any stupider, they just process thoughts slower than normal people do. My friend said to me, "I went to the Nike Shop just now"... and it took me two minutes to understand that short line, "oh yeah... you did?" But I wasn't stupid because I understood that, only took me longer. I realized that very time that it really sucks to be communicating slowly like that with my friends, so I decided to quit. But it was tough, I still did it for like another 3 months before I went off to Melbourne. The most important factor to have to quit pot is to have the willingness to quit... so it really depends on your son to want to quit or not. Second, IMO is the environmental influence. Rarely potters have that tough willingness to quit that their friends could not approach and influence them to smoke pot again.

If your son has decided to put an end to all this, a bit of advice to help him beat all the black bloods remaining in his body is to wake up early in the morning and do some exercices. Potters are lazy and wanna sleep all the time, so have him do this to beat his remaining lazyness. I would say morning sunlight is the best at beating all his vampireness in him, let his eyes receive sunlight. It really killed me the first week I did it I wished there were clouds or I was wearing sunglasses, but I found out in the end I have the energy to live a normal life.

[Nanook]

This thread is getting WAY too serious...


http://members.aol.com/VWware/chcop.gif

[purduefan]

Thanks for the words of encouragement. We've had good news and bad news since I posted last. The good news is that BJ has been "clean" since the end of November -- no pot, no booze. BJ is in an Intensive Outpatient Therapy program that meets 3 times a week, and he is drug tested every week as part of the program. Earlier, I said that he always was angry and grumpy -- well, the other night he was actually smiling when he talked to me. That might not sound like a big deal -- but trust me, I haven't seen his beautiful smile in a long time! So things are looking up at least a little bit on this front.

The bad news is the charges against BJ are probably going to be more serious than we had hoped. He showed up at Superior Court at his appointed time and was not on the docket. The attorney checked on it and said that the charges would probably be at the felony level and thus in a higher court. This is NOT good news. It's been almost 2 months since his arrest and we still don't know what the charges are. Is there some sort of time limit on this type of thing?

I guess we'll just take everything one day at a time. Thanks everyone for your encouragement and support. I sincerely appreciate it.

On a personal note: Grad school starts this Saturday!

[joeychitwood]

Myladyfish! Dude! (*Long toke :smokin: *) Like, it took me.....like 25 minutes to read your post, man. But, I couldn't agree more.......................or could I?..........................oh well, dude, it doesn't really matter.....................I'm hungry! (*laughing hysterically at my own avatar*)

In addiction medicine, physical addiction is easy to deal with. There are many medications which will smooth the rough edges of withdrawal. Most addicts go through physical withdrawal hundreds of times between doses.

The killer is the psychological addiction, the "Why" of addiction. There is a reason that we addicts look for the easier, softer way, the escape, the release from pain. Dealing with that is much more difficult.

It is a big mistake for someone to take comfort in the fact that pot is not physically addiciting. Neither is crack cocaine.

[joeychitwood]

And purduefan, I'm happy to hear about your son's progress.

Though the charges are serious and frightening, facing the consequences of one's use and abuse of drugs is part of recovery. Believe me, some of us have paid dearly for the mistakes we made, at great financial expense, and in some cases, at great expense to our reputations and careers. And, most importantly, we have emerged as better persons for it.

However, the smile you saw the other day is only the first of many if he continues down the road to recovery. I see great hope in your post.

[bmcelhinn]

joeychitwood

Do you go to meetings still? Or do you manage to deal with your addiction internally?

[joeychitwood]

Originally posted by bmcelhinn
joeychitwood

Do you go to meetings still? Or do you manage to deal with your addiction internally? I still go to meetings, although not as often. Perhaps twice per month. It has been 17 years so far.

[musicsmaker]

Potters are lazy and wanna sleep all the time If you go ask a supervisor at a factory, he will tell you that potheads are the hardest workers.

[joeychitwood]

Originally posted by musicsmaker
If you go ask a supervisor at a factory, he will tell you that potheads are the hardest workers. ROTFLMAO!

[Nanook]

Yep, that is true...because you are paranoid from smoking too much weed and you fear that they will catch on and fire your azz...so, work harder to make them think you are worthy, keeps the checks coming in and the baggies stuffed.


;)

[musicsmaker]

Would you like a few references?

[musicsmaker]

You guys keep stereotyping pot heads as this and that. The only thing that is true about all potheads is that they all smoke pot.

[Nanook]

http://www.drugabuse.gov/NIDA_Notes/NNVol11N1/Marijuana.html

[Nanook]

and more good reading:


http://www.drugabuse.gov/ResearchReports/Marijuana/Marijuana4.html#school

[kevlouie]

The potheads are the best employees and the ones with the keys to the shop at my dads construction company. Its the crackheads you have to watch out for, stuff will go missing.

[purduefan]

I'm beginning to understand about the psychological part of the addiction -- that's what the IOP is treating. The hubster and I have also talked to a counselor to 1) help us deal with the hurt/anger/fear/emotions of dealing with this situation and 2) to help us be supporting to BJ without going too far. The counselor tried to explain to us the "why" of drug/alcohol abuse. I guess the reasons can be many and varied. For example, we found out that BJ has ADHD -- never knew it -- it's not severe. But when he entered college it could have created problems for him thus making him feel stupid, low self esteem, and self medication with pot and booze. I am NOT saying that IS what happened, I'm just saying that was one example of what could have happened. The only one that really knows is BJ.
Anyway -- we take life one step at a time and deal with things as they arise. The bridges you cross before you get to them are over rivers that are not there.
Again, thanks for the words of encouragement and the prayers. It means a lot to me. I'll try to post an update as needed.
Debbie

[musicsmaker]

Sorry, but those are government websites. It's like asking the owner of a lumber yard about the benefits of steel buildings.

[Nanook]

Take it from the spiders then:


http://www.humorcentral.net/images/gallery/images/newspaper/nasa_spiders.jpg

[musicsmaker]

PS ~ Purduefan, glad to see you are making progress. ADHD, eh? Wonder what else comes with that? Does ADHD and things like depression and anxiety go hand in hand?

[joeychitwood]

Originally posted by musicsmaker
Sorry, but those are government websites. It's like asking the owner of a lumber yard about the benefits of steel buildings. Yeah! Let's see some studies from the growers or the users!

It appears I've been wasting my time all these years trying to stay straight. I'd be a harder-working, more trusted employee and an all-around better human being if I quit trying to deal with life head on and just smoked weed to cope.

Oh... you don't smoke weed to cope? Why do you smoke it then?

[musicsmaker]

Well, I don't smoke weed period, so I can't answer that question.

[MiddletonMark]

I used to smoke it as well ... and yet don't demonize it.

IMO, I'm not going to consider government websites [why no such pages on alcohol, tobacco?] as trusted. Given they're lack of good research on it ... sorry.

Maybe it's not the greatest, but there's a LOT of crap people do [legally] that's just as bad. Let's just talk about alcohol, if we're going to discuss this ....

[Flanders]

There are two sides to every story, and anyone who thinks you can trust the government on this one (or pretty much anything) has a major screw loose IMO. Besides, that spider wove a pretty good web compared to the caffeine web.

http://www.marijuana.com/myths.php3

My purpose is not to belittle anyone's drug problems here, but just to offer what I feel is a *more* impartial viewpoint (nothing should be considered totally impartial). For those who insinuate that the only people who feel marijuana is safe or medically beneficial are using or growing it, please grow up. That is not true at all.

[joeychitwood]

Originally posted by Flanders
There are two sides to every story, and anyone who thinks you can trust the government on this one (or pretty much anything) has a major screw loose IMO.
http://www.marijuana.com/myths.php3 Now there's a non-biased web site!

[Flanders]

Any compilation of studies and research is going to have a bias. You then, however, sort through that bias to form your own opinion. It's called thinking.

[musicsmaker]

I find the spider web experiment interesting. Do you know where I can read more about it?

[MiddletonMark]

I want to see what the drunken spider did for a web :D

[kevlouie]

I just have this image of some college researcher blowing shotguns to a spider and going...... whoa.....check the little dude out.

[musicsmaker]

LOL!

[musicsmaker]

Besides, that spider wove a pretty good web compared to the caffeine web. That's an interesting observation.

[Myladyfish]

Originally posted by Nanook
Yep, that is true...because you are paranoid from smoking too much weed and you fear that they will catch on and fire your azz...so, work harder to make them think you are worthy, keeps the checks coming in and the baggies stuffed.


;)

It's weird... well I guess different people receive different effects? Maybe it's stupidity or carelessness in my case (?) but I wouldn't get paranoid if I potted. My teacher would even approach me in my class and signal a smoking action to me, as if to say, "how's your smoking activity going, mannn?" I understood him, but I still laughed at him... and honestly he was smart, he would laugh with me in the class and the class would go like, "crazy nitiwits!!" and he wouldn't catch me but instead report suspicion about me to the headmaster. :mad: The only evil that would EVER make me active and supppper paranoid (funnily) at the same time was ice.

[ReeferMonkey]

Purduefan,

This thread seems to have gotten hijacked. As far as your son not being on the docket, that is really a better situation. The longer you have between arrest and arraignment the better. More time to get clean and stay clean.

I'm not going to go into my personal situation on this public forum, but in a few moments you'll have a private message.

Nathan

[ReeferMonkey]

Originally posted by Flanders
If he enjoys reading, get him some books. Most people don't smoke pot and read books, so I doubt he's been reading much lately. Those are just two ideas I had last night.

Hrm totally not accurate in my experience. I guess it depends on who you hang out/get high with.... some people are introspective and seek knowledge, stoned or not. I love(d) to read while high. This kind of seems like a generalization along the lines that potheads can't be intellectual or intelligent people.

I have lots of experience with pot... I would wager a whole lot more than the majority of the people that frequent this board. You'd be really quite surprised if you knew the types of people that like to get high on a casual basis. Politicans, housewives, architects, engineers, businesspeople, students, college kids, adults, seniors... it's hard to make generalizations about who does or doesn't smoke weed. Very much the same as alcohol : it's whatever you make it. Use it to run away from your problems? Your fault, whatever substance you choose to use. Abuse it: again, don't blame the pot, blame yourself.

Sure, people have a hard time with it and it can be bad (like just about anything else in the world) but I think it's foolish to believe that it's illegal because the government cares about your safety. Right. And that's why alcohol is legal. Because alcohol NEVER cost anyone their lives or their livelihood. :rolleyes:

Here I go, hijacking the thread.

[Myladyfish]

purduefan, never give up even in rough time. I'd say drugs make us over-sensitive... we could get angry over small stuff... And, this happened to me: I would always love for others to assume me as independent and mature although it's obviously immature to be angry over small things.

[williams-crist]

One thing I have found to be true about drug addiction is that the people abusing drugs are people "trying to fill a void in their lives." It doesn't really matter what type of drug it is, it seems to be like self-medicating an underlying problem.

It is devastating to have loved one's suffer through addiction. My sister has been a drug addict for something like 10 years. She goes from drinking, too smoking, and to doing meth. It's too painful for me to bring up so I don't ask or stay close enough to her to really know how bad her problem really is... She is so smart (always straight A's even through college) but makes horrible decisions on a consistent and predictable basis...

I know this is going to p*ss the smoker's off, but honestly I've never been around more boring, and unmotivated people as chronic pot smokers. If you can smoke at a party and be done with it cool, but how many pot smokers do you know that just sit around and smoke and smoke and smoke.

Pot is horrible because it steals your motivation and makes people complacent...

Also, pot is addictive. Case in point, pot has high levels of nicotine in it. Cigerettes have already been proven to be addictive.

Everyone knows how deadly alcohol is. If you don't please job shadow someone who works in the ER. I've seen soooo many people die because they were driving drunk or because they were hit by a drunk driver. You don't know what it's like until you've been in the ER with a dead child in the Trauma room and seen the family arrive one by one and have to tell the story again and again. It's a terrible reality. Even more so, I've seen many people who will have permanent disabilities from their accidents due to alcohol.

If your son is having problems with alcohol maybe having him spend a night job shadowing a nurse in ER. Many ER's have programs where the nurses work in the community to help educate youth about the dangers of drinking.

The only way to stop abusing drugs is to decide you will not abuse the drug, find out why you are self-medicating and remove yourself from temptation ( Friends who smoke pot or drink and are physicially and mentally unable to support your goal to stop).

Sometimes as a loved one you have to create a distance between you and your loved one. My sister knows that I love her and she knows how I feel about her drug use, she knows that I will help when she is ready.

I know it sounds terrible, but by always jumping into "bail" your son out, in some ways you are enabling him to continue with his addiction.

I agree that you should support him but if this becomes a vicious cycle, make your boundry clear to your son and give yourself some room to accept his independence (choices) and some room to heal. Tough love.

Best of luck

[sammystingray]

The spider thing caught my attention. Very interesting. Here's a page with a couple more.

http://www.missblackwidow.com/drugs.html

[lil_mikey69]

The addiction can be overcome, but only if the user really wants to stop. If he's trying to quite because of anything but what he wants, it probably won't be succesful. Alochol can be very addictive.

On to weed though. Thats a different story. I don't think it's addictive at all, and neither do most professionals. My psychology teacher, whos worked in drug rehab for years said theres really nothing to suggest its physically addictive, if anything, its all mental. If he wants too, he can easily quite.

[Megalodon]

Originally posted by lil_mikey69
On to weed though. Thats a different story. I don't think it's addictive at all, and neither do most professionals. My psychology teacher, whos worked in drug rehab for years said theres really nothing to suggest its physically addictive, if anything, its all mental. If he wants too, he can easily quite.

I completely agree. Only a super-small minority of regular pot smokers claim to be helplessly hooked on it.

I am one of those people who believe that alcohol is a ten-times worse drug than pot.

I've never heard before that pot has lots of nicotine in it.

[crescent1]

the worst thing you could of done for your son was to bail him out of jail.
he needs to know that when he gets busted again, that no one will be there to bail him out.
your son needs to get into a good rehab and after he gets out he needs a support group to help him stay clean.
get your son into a rehab today, he mite not want it, but he needs to see what its all about and make the decision himself if he wants to stay clean or not.

[musicsmaker]

Case in point, pot has high levels of nicotine in it. Where did you hear this at?

[Flanders]

This kind of seems like a generalization along the lines that potheads can't be intellectual or intelligent people.

If you would read my other posts you would see that I don't believe that at all. I still feel it is true that *most* people don't smoke pot and read books, sorry to generalize. Of course there are exceptions. Personally, if I am high I have trouble concentrating books and prefer to play music or watch a movie.

I totally agree that it is what you make of it. And the diversity of people who smoke pot would not suprise me at all.

Hijacking ended. ;)

[musicsmaker]

http://www.missblackwidow.com/drugs.html

Did anybody else read this? Crazy stuff.

[rvitko]

The cure is discipline, responsibility and obligations- those are all free, you just have to step up to the plate. Me and all my high school budies were really bright kids, all AP and honors classes, Cum laude, bored out of our minds so we stayed up late smoking dope and shooting each other with paint ball guns. OK, you get a mild jones when you quit, the brain is always trying to avoid inebriation, a hangover, or crash is the result of the drugs wearing off and only your brains efforts to fight the drug remaining in play. Once my life lost the boringness and became a challenge and I had obligations to be there for others, the whole issue quickly disappeared. I would agree with others who are more concerned about the alcohol, but being a pot head isn't a great accomplishment either. The concept of physical vs psychological addiction has largely been discarded because there are too many mind/body interactions to draw these lines. The Army's Merck field medical manual considers marijuana relatively harmless and non addictive. From a medical stand point the greatest concern I have about marijuanas effects are it's mimicry of sex hormones. The main effect is caused by mimicry of anandamide a neurotransmiter in the limbic system. It does have secondary effects because it resembles testosterone as well. This causes a counterbalancing effect of greater estrogen production in both males and females and the reduction of real testosterone production. In females this causes more painful menstruations and more PMS symptoms (yes, I know it was used to treat PMS in old times and if only used short term it supposedly induces some relief of symptoms) In men this may increase the risk of testicular cancer but there are no conclusive studies on this, it also seems to cause cellular anomalies in the pectoral area (breast formation- actually more correctly fatty deposits)

[Wolverine]

Flanders, the problem with that link you posted is that it's from 1995. There's been a good deal of research since then. The biggest, and most important, was a huge Swiss study (I believe it was Swiss, but from that region anyway) that came out last year or the year before. It was a long term study of marijuana users (categorized into different amount of use). They showed unequivocally that long term use reduces attention, impairs memory, impairs cognition (essentially the ability to think). All of these factors were still true even when the people were no longer actively doing pot. So far the "strongest" scientific argument I've seen against this study is that it wasn't done in the U.S, so it "can't be trusted".

Someone above mentioned glaucoma. I can assure you that if the proponents of medical marijuana want to win out, they should drop glaucoma from their list of uses. The drop in intraocular pressure is far too transient for it to be of medical use in that arena. There's also some evidence of a possible rebound rise in pressure, which would more than negate any potential benefits. For it to be of use, someone would have to literally be constantly high.

Because of the effects on weakening the immune system, it's also becoming less in favor in the use of chemotherapy and HIV treatment, because one thing you REALLY don't want to do in those situation is further weaken the immune system.

Dave

[dellrio]

i dont smoke pot... but have before... and i think addiction to pot is ecuase its fun and enjoyable.. and everoyne wants to do things that are fun and enjoyable.. even if other people see it as harmfull..
i think the best thing for u to do as a parent is be educated on what your son is doing.. read some studies on behavior and such.... learn how it effects peopel from a scientific standpoint.... i dont know lots of links to that.. but basic info can be foud here
http://www.erowid.org/

keep in mind.... your lucky it isnt coke or heroin....
however alcoholism is not a gread addiction.... i couldnt know much about it.. cause i dont drink.... however i know sever alcoholics... and thats partly why i do not take part of it...
God Bless your family... love and support will help./. not anger or guilt.. do not guilt him about himself or make him feel shame EVER... cause after feeling bad about himself.. the first thing hes gunna wanna do is drink and smoke. so dont put a craving into him.. praise him.. tell him u respect him for being strong..

[dellrio]

as far as those spiders.. it doenst say how much drug was put into them.. so that is not a valid test in my opinion..

i would think the LSD would help a spider make a wonderful web....

too many tests done on things other than humans make unfair results.. b/c they do not properly dose the animal... wrong portions... same thing with people... one pill of X on a human and 64 on a monkey is not going to give fair results... just like walking and eating 30 pies... prolly are not gunna walk too well... and throw up every now and then... feel sleepy.. and such... just not proper dosage..

[dellrio]

and as far as intelegence and smoking pot...
in my highschool there were 4 full ride scholorships to Creighton University. nice school.. but oddly enough... all 4 kids were the biggest pot heads i had ever met... strange but true... they were brilliant...

[Wolverine]

Originally posted by dellrio
and as far as intelegence and smoking pot...
in my highschool there were 4 full ride scholorships to Creighton University. nice school.. but oddly enough... all 4 kids were the biggest pot heads i had ever met... strange but true... they were brilliant...

I also knew some people like that.
There are a couple of things to consider here:
(1) Were they more the exceptions, than the rule? Of the people I knew, this was certainly the case, because for everyone of them I could easily find 10+ absolute morons who were huge pot heads.

(2) Were they simply so much more intelligent than those around them, that even with the pot bringing them down, they were still above most others? This is also the case in at least 2 of the people I'm thinking of. Even stoned they were brilliant, but in their more lucid moments, they were freakishly, frighteningly intelligent.

Dave

[rvitko]

Originally posted by Wolverine
I also knew some people like that.
There are a couple of things to consider here:
(1) Were they more the exceptions, than the rule? Of the people I knew, this was certainly the case, because for everyone of them I could easily find 10+ absolute morons who were huge pot heads.

(2) Were they simply so much more intelligent than those around them, that even with the pot bringing them down, they were still above most others? This is also the case in at least 2 of the people I'm thinking of. Even stoned they were brilliant, but in their more lucid moments, they were freakishly, frighteningly intelligent.

Dave

Bingo!

My dad would always point to my uncle- addicted to Miltown, Ulcer Meds (accelrate alcohol absorbtion) and alcohol. He could have been twice as productive and twice the genius without substances holding him back.

[musicsmaker]

(1) Were they more the exceptions, than the rule? Maybe the "rule" does not exist? Maybe since we are teaching children that pot makes them dumb, the smart ones will be predisposed to staying away from it. If the things we teach school children about pot were true, then you would have to be pretty dumb in the first place to start smoking it. Most school kids don't question what the teacher says quite often enough. They just except it as fact because they trust it to be so.

[Wolverine]

Originally posted by musicsmaker
Maybe the "rule" does not exist? Maybe since we are teaching children that pot makes them dumb, the smart ones will be predisposed to staying away from it. If the things we teach school children about pot were true, then you would have to be pretty dumb in the first place to start smoking it. Most school kids don't question what the teacher says quite often enough. They just except it as fact because they trust it to be so.

I'd argue that the rule does exist. That's partly based on the studies I've seen involving this, and partly on my own observations. The study I mentioned above was done in an area of the world that does not have such a strong stigma for marijuana, and yet they still found that it "made people dumb". Also, the study was based on following the same individuals for the full length, and found that the individuals were having decreases in their memory, cognition, attention, etc. They found that the smart people got less smart, and the dumb people got more dumb.

Dave

[iCam]

Case in point, pot has high levels of nicotine in it.

I thought that tobacco was the only plant that contained nicotine.

[ozmonster]

Originally posted by BrianD
LOL, the fact that it has "law" in the link means it is untrue? LMAO! You're kidding, right?

Surely you are joking when you say you can't see the relevance. No thanks, I don't need any links. I am not trying to rationalize my beliefs ;)

Originally posted by BrianD
so it really doesn't matter to me what you believe.but it appears to me that some people have blinders on.
..

Originally posted by BrianD
Are you clueless? Where did I make one comment about whether pot was addictive. Right. I didn't. So keep your "drop it" to yourself

Originally posted by BrianD
...Once again, it would help if you actually knew what you were talking about before speaking....

Originally posted by BrianD
Do you actually read other posts before you comment?

I tried to add this guy to my ignore list but found out you can't put moderators on ignore. This is a shame because I can actually feel my IQ fall a few points after reading his posts. :mad2:

oz

[BrianD]

Oz, I find it hard to imagine that it is possible for your IQ to drop any lower.

[Flanders]

Also, the study was based on following the same individuals for the full length, and found that the individuals were having decreases in their memory, cognition, attention, etc. They found that the smart people got less smart, and the dumb people got more dumb.

Wolverine, I'd be interested to read that study for myself. Any idea where I could locate it? I'm curious as to how long the study was, and whether it continued after the people stopped smoking pot, etc. Sounds interesting.

[ozmonster]

Originally posted by BrianD
Oz, I find it hard to imagine that it is possible for your IQ to drop any lower.

Exactly, that was my point.

oz

[Scuba_Dave]

Someone said Reefin can never be cured....

[skippy2]

Originally posted by Scuba_Dave
Someone said Reefin can never be cured....

:D I think you are probably right Dave. I can't get enough of this stuff.:rolleyes:

[BrianD]

A member reported my above post to Oz, thinking it was childish and rude of me to respond as I did. Based on this, I have no choice but to ban that member.

Not really. Actually, I apologize to Oz for the comment I made and to anyone else who was offended that a moderator would respond in that way.

Brian

[Flanders]

I am offended that you would combine a sincere apology with a joke at another member's expense. :mad2:

;)

[skippy2]

:rolleyes: Can we get back on the subject please??!!

I was just told last nite that my friend's 16 yr old son is doing crank, ecstasy and heroin. How does a 16 yr old even know where to look for this stuff. Maybe I'm naive. Scares me for my grandchildren. I know pot isn't the answer but I wish he would just stick to the pot and not all the hardcore stuff.
This kid has been diagnosed as bipolar yrs. ago and he hates the way the meds. make him feel. If he was my kid I would put him in rehab as in inpatient. The dad (mom's been absent for yrs.) is an alcholic. All I can do is be there for the dad when he wants to talk which is quite often but I am running out of time trying to save this kid's life albeit vicariously. As in previous posts on this subject you all know I did drugs. But not like this and not this young. Damn, I am so stressed about this I just don't know what to do anymore. For all those parents whose kids do drugs, or if you even suspect it, please follow through on your suspicions and get help for you and them.

[BrianD]

How sad Skippy :(

I don't know how parents deal with the stress of "protecting" their kids from getting involved with drugs.

[skippy2]

Maybe if Dad could follow your advice in your signature. He is taking his son to a psychologist and has an appointment with a family conselor this afternoon. Son has just been busted for stealing liquer at the grocery store. I suppose now is the time to tell you that the son broke Dad's nose a few weeks ago.

[BrianD]

Whenever I hear a story like that, I always think of the proud parents in the hospital with their new baby, and wonder how things develop this way. I don't have kids, and I don't know the answer, but I can't believe it happens overnight. Hopefully you will be able to offer some help to your friend and the boy.

[Nanook]

There are fantastic support groups for people affected by the disease of addiction. Al Anon is one of the most popular, based on the 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous. For anyone with a family member or close friend suffering from the disease of addiction, I would highly recommend attending Al Anon for information on the disease and how to live with an alcoholic and/or addict.

Dave

[musicsmaker]

That is very sad. Do/help/support whatever is best for the kid. Son shouldn't be breaking dads nose. Hopefully, dad taught son the "you can never be tougher than your old man" lesson and son will think twice before raising his fist to dad again. I sure hope your friend can get things back under control. Have you mentioned the drinking thing to him?

[joeychitwood]

Originally posted by Nanook
There are fantastic support groups for people affected by the disease of addiction. Al Anon is one of the most popular, based on the 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous. For anyone with a family member or close friend suffering from the disease of addiction, I would highly recommend attending Al Anon for information on the disease and how to live with an alcoholic and/or addict.

Dave Excellent point! Al Anon can teach the person affected by someone else's addiction how to live without guilt, without feeling responsible, without enabling the user and without fear.

Some of the most "together" and wise people I have ever met became that way at Al Anon.

[skippy2]

Mentioned it!!!!!!!!!!!. Omg, yes. You see, I lived with him for 71/2 yrs. Granted, I was drinking when I first met him but I haven't partyed in app. 7 yrs. His drinking is the reason he is no longer with me. He just got custody of his kids a few months ago. They were living with Grandma and Grandpa. The son also beat up Grandpa last yr. They don't want to tell the cops that part for fear of them taking him away. I think they should tell because of the fact that I don't trust either one of them with the 14 yr old girl. At the very least she will look for love in all the wrong places. I would love to call child protection services but for now I will wait and see how the counseling goes. Hopefully, I will see a difference in attitudes before it is too late.

[Wolverine]

Originally posted by Flanders
Wolverine, I'd be interested to read that study for myself. Any idea where I could locate it? I'm curious as to how long the study was, and whether it continued after the people stopped smoking pot, etc. Sounds interesting.

I've been really busy lately, but I'll see if I can dig it up. From what I remember, the study followed people for about 10 years.

skippy2,
16 y/o kids don't have to go looking for that stuff. It comes to them just fine. I can't tell you how many chances I had to try all sorts of things I had no interest in trying. And that was in Salt Lake City. It's much easier here.

Dave

[blue agua]

This is a touchy subject.You are going to get the ones who say you should get him help.Its not up to you.He is going to do it himself. All you can do is give give him support. Then you are going to get the ones who say pot is not addicting.BS.They still smoke it. I have gone through 2 in house rehabs. The firsat one for my wife which nof mcoarse didnt work and the second for me.IT WOKS. The problem with your son is he got caught and now he is forced to do something not good. Again he has to do it for himself.Take it from the experiance dopper and once a dopper always a dopper. I hate to say it. i have not touched anything in 15years. I just quit smoking. I love to eat know. The point is the addiction for something is always there. For praying to god. God or the higher power cant help. That is one thing I have to dissagree with about the programs.Good Luck

[purduefan]

Well we finally know the charges against BJ. Without going into a whole lot of detail, there are 2 class D felonies and 3 misdemenors (I think that's how you spell it). We sort of "lucked out" in a way. There are two superior court judges in town, one is really hard with drugs the other is a little more reasonable. We got the more reasonable one. That doesn't make it good, but at least this judge will think about the fact that it is BJ's first offense ever. The other "lucky" thing was that they are "only" class D felonies -- they could have easily been class B.
Additionally, BJ has been in counseling and has not smoked pot since his arrest which is good because the court will require him to take tests. However, BJ has not kicked his alcohol habit. Now, I know alcohol is legal and he is of age so that's not the problem -- I'm just scared that he has an addiction to alcohol and may not even know it. I also know that until he does nothing can be done.
Anyway, thanks to everyone for their words of support and encouragement. It has been a rough couple of months for us and it will probably get worse before it gets better. Last night when the deputy came to get him with the info on the actual charges, they had to re-arrest him including putting him in handcuffs. Not a pleasant sight for a mother -- to see her son put in handcuffs standing in our living room. BJ wasn't fighting or anything -- he was being polite and cooperative it's just the rules. Still -- was a sad moment for me.

[lil_mikey69]

I wish the best for all of you.

[gianna]

My heart goes out to you and since your son sounds amazingly like one of my brothers I just want to let you know that not everyone grows up by adult age but most people do eventually grow up. My brother had pretty much the same things going on at that age and even older. He is now a very successful employee of Lockheed-Martin and all the wiser because he took the harder road:)

[XxDutchxX]

Im 22 and almost everyone my age drinks every week and a day or 2 during the week around here. I dont drink that much because i get bad hangovers now. I wish him the best of luck.

[purduefan]

Well, BJ has actually passed a drug test last week!! He's still in counseling, (good thing), and will plead guilty to felony possession. Not that I'm happy about a felony conviction, but it could have been a LOT worse! He'll get house arrest and probation with continuing counseling and drug testing required. He's still drinking sorta heavy in my mind -- but I acknowledge -- I'm not a young person and I was never much of a drinker even when I was younger. The main thing is that it seems he has (for now) kicked the drug thing. He's also a lot nicer to be around and we (hubby and I) can talk to him again without him getting angry. I don't know if we're out of the woods yet and I suppose they'll be a couple of setbacks. But I think we've made progress. It's been a rough 4 months for us -- but I think I see a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel -- either that or it's a train coming.
Debbie

[skippy2]

Congratulations. I know you must feel like you are walking on eggshells most of the time. In my previous post I talked about a friend's son who got into trouble. He got tether with 2 yrs. probation. Must finish alternative school and get a job. His dad bought him a stereo so he wouldn't be too bored staying home. Geez Louise. Wrong message there.
In the meantime, I just had my 17 yr old grandson go to jail for stealing $5.00 in gas. Not once, but 3 times. He just got busted again. He is spending this weekend in jail. 4 months tether, 2 yrs probation and must get a job. His dad wants to buy him another car. My grandson just totaled out his car a couple of weeks ago. They aren't my kids and it's not my business but I think stereos and cars are definately sending out the wrong message.
Then there is my 14 yr old grandaughter. I don't even know where to start on that one. I thought it was supposed to be fun be a gramma but damn, I can't take any more.

[joeychitwood]

I'm hoping for the best for him and you. The fact that he continues to use (alcohol in this case) is quite distressing however. To gain long term control of his life, he'll need to give up all mood altering drugs, including alcohol. Remember, the mortality rate of alcoholism is 90%.

[galleon]

Originally posted by BrianD
Au contraire

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html

No peer reviewed references, and the crux of his argument is that the principle negative health affects arise from the fact that it is smoked. All I have to say to that is, "no ****, sherlock."

[musicsmaker]

I agree that to have control he will need to give up all mind altering drugs. Addiction takes many forms, from drugs to alcohol, from chewing gum to cheeseburgers, from sex to money.

The life of a recovering addict is like peeling an onion. Peel away one habit to find yourself forming another one. Quit that one and yet another one is surfaced. Each getting smaller and smaller until you get to the center.

[reefratt]

hello purduefan...I am glad to hear things are getting a little better..please keep in mind..while on house arrest... if your son is caught with even a single beer he will go back to court with a violation and the judge will punish him much more severly for this..I would like to tell a story of my life and family so check your PM this evening.....good luck

[billwynne]

purduefan, there's actually more good news here than meets the eye. I know many folks in recovery whose stories about their youth are worse than your son's. They'll tell you they're grateful their disease popped up so early in their lives...got clean and sober fairly young, sometimes with a few stumbles along the way, and have great lives, families, careers.

My viewpoint may be biased. As of today, it has been exactly 25 years since my last drink or drug. and I still go to meetings.

Good luck.

[joeychitwood]

billwynne brings up a great point. Many of us have life stories we don't care to recite but can't forget, nor should we ever.

Fortunately, I had the chance to clean up and straighten up in time to be there for each of my kids as they grew up, and my wife has been married to a healthy person much longer than a messed up one. I am very grateful for that.

It's been 17 years as of last Tuesday, but trouble is just one drink or pill away and always will be.

[purduefan]

Thanks all!
This has been very difficult for us. The stress level in our family has been extremely high for a while. Jay entered the military, I went back to grad school, and BJ gets arrested. Thank goodness I have a solid Rock as the foundation for my life! I also sincerely appreciate this "community" and the caring people here. Lots of good discussion and insight. I know we still have a long way to go -- but hopefully we're on the right path.

[BigBird]

Purduefan:

It sounds like things are brightening up, at least somewhat. My wife & I have a similar problem with my brother-in-law, who has now acquired so many felonies that the military won't take him. Then, to make matters worse, he's expelled from high school - during the last semester of his senior year:mad2: :mad2:

Every time my mother-in-law calls us, it's an unnerving event. I really hate the effect his behavior has on my wife.

Every time he gets a little time on his hands, he gets into more trouble. Now, the military won't take him, he's got no high school diploma so no job, and he's got zero motivation to improve himself. In other words, he's got nothing but time on his hands. Furthermore, if he gets in trouble again he'll go straight to jail, not to a (comparatively) cushy juvie facility.

This problem must be incredibly difficult to deal with when a member of your immediate family is the "victim." I know how frustrating dealing with my brother-in-law is, your situation must be really, really tough to handle. I look at these problems as a manifestation of a personality disorder - all you can really do is provide as loving and safe of an environment as possible, try to offer as much wisdom as you can, and ultimately cross your fingers and hope for the best. The sad part is that it seems to hit people who otherwise have alot to offer, were it not for their inability to control themselves with respect to drugs and alcohol.

Best of luck to you and your family!

[petedoc]

This an interesting thread, kind of a AA group for Reefcentral addicts. Addiction is a subject that few of us want to address, it is painful and causes alot of inner turmoil. The long term payoff can be very rewarding but difficult to appreciate initially.

[wdt2000]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Flanders
[B]If you quit on your own, personally, I don't think you were addicted. Addicts can't quit on their own. Congratulations on ridding yourself of three bad habits. Seriously.

This is not true. I am an addict and I have relasped I have also quit. I know I was an addict because my life was centered around the substance and I experinced withdrawls. I have been clean for about 3 years and I was clean for about 2 years before that. I still get the cravings.

What worked for me was finding a hobby and focusing all my extra time and energy into the hobby. I started with scuba but it was kind of hard to do in the mountains. Then I got a reef tank and ended up here.

[mickey57]

Originally posted by Qdoggie
I dont usually come to this site, but Im glad. I may be able to give you advice...
As a police officer Ive dealt with many of people in your situation....

!. He may be telling you just what you want to hear.. Its easier to blame a "problem" such as addiction than just admitting a big mistake and taking responsibility for it. One doesnt want to let down his parents.....
2. The above could be a good thing. He may not really be addicted. If he is, the best therapy Ive seen work is the in house type. That is where he would be sent to a facility he could not leave from. Its intensive but allows him to concentrate on the issue at hand. They run anywhere from 2wks to 6months usually.
3. An important factor is environment. He needs a new set of friends and a new location to live or start over. This is if he is truly off the end. Realistically, he will not abandon his close friends. The choice is up to him. He needs to make the right decisions...
4. You CANT help someone if they dont want it...... Remember that ALWAYS. Doesnt matter how hard you try, believe me!!! Dont waste your time, effort, and money.. If hes not ready, hes not ready!!! Good Luck
......Oh my God:eek1: I am in agreement with a Florida Police officer:cool:
......I will PM you.I have found out that is better,with this subject,concerning me anyway;)
.....Mickey

[skippy2]

I am pretty sure I am on this thread from the beginning. I have just come from the bar. Do I dare say a drink or 2 in moderation is alright. I know I want to go back for social interaction, not necessarily for a drink. I do know however I will drink at least one.

[Frick-n-Frags]

Another angle, which many have touched on is your personal attitude towards yourself. If you are in any form of denial of reality, you will be more tempted to grab an escape mechanism.

There are eataholics, gambleholics, movie,TV, readaholics, video games and tons of "diversions" all much more legal, but still able to let a person get lost.

Anyway my point is for the long haul to help a victim of some type of escapism addiction to establish dreams and goals in their lives, something to live for rather than escape from. Then all by themselves they can't get "wasted" or kill the whole day reading a fantasy story because they have things to do.

[MiddletonMark]

You mean I'm not escaping when I set up the rubbermaids, get the water change going, and spend 4 hours reaquascaping one section of my tank?

If I'm not escaping ... I'll buy you a case of any beer if you can convince my new wife of this :lol:

But good points made :)

[mickey57]

....Yeah,were escaping but the only things we are detramental to,are our wallets,and the animals we murder,when we are in denial of what is the best for them and we don't do it.Denial doesn't mean we don't know about the subject of focus,but that we do nothing about the problem.Our society does not approve or accept anyone who does harm to themselves or otheres;) My God,I am starting to sound like my Dad:rolleyes:
..........Mickey................

[NwG]

I pray for you and hope everything works out......
I have something to add.... I have been addicted to many things...
weed-beer-coke-speed-..... it goes on and on sadly the ONLY thing that worked for me was finding myself in the hospital one day....
the doctor came in and showed my a ekg....... flatline......
I died on the way to the hospital in lake tahoe and they were able to bring me back...... that was DEC.18 1999 and I haven't touched anything (other then beer I still like beer..bad me..) after that...
That is what it took to get a stupid 19year old off the crap... I can say that nothing other then that would of stopped me....
This is the scary part od being a addict.......
Another note about the more "nice" judge....
There is a judge around were I live that was easy on kids from my town when it came to drugs.. slap on the wrist type thing....
two months ago his son was found dead I a buddys bathroom due to a herion overdose...... thats all I can say
my best wishes......
nate d

[SOMEthinsFISHY]

u will beat this thing !

[purduefan]

Finally (after 7 months) the sentencing is over. By the grace of GOD the following things happened......

BJ denied nothing, and pled guilty. The judge reduced his sentence to one misdemeanor charge. So, no felony conviction on his record. He has 1 year of unsupervised probation and a fine (which he has already paid himself).

BJ completed counseling and has been drug free for 7 months. He has passed all drug tests to date and has a couple of more to go.

He has started hanging out with a different group of friends and his drinking has been GREATLY reduced -- he can now go several weeks without a single drink. He used to go through at least a fifth of rum a night. And when he does drink now it's not to the point of falling down drunk.

He continues to hold a job and is now working on returning to college. Since he does not have a felony drug conviction he will still qualify for financial aid.

He thanks his father and I frequently for "not throwing him out and giving up on him".

Do I believe everything is completely better and we will never have to deal with this again -- NO. I'm sure there will be setbacks and bad days. But BJ freely admits that he's an addict and talks to us about different ways to cope with things. I do believe he has taken positive steps and I'm starting to have more confidence in his ability to deal with life in constructive rather than destructive ways. I still worry, I'm a Mom. But he is slowly rebuilding my trust.

Thanks again for all your support and encouragement through these last several months. I feel like I've aged 10 years this summer.

[musicsmaker]

Great news! I'm glad to be reading that. Especially this part:Do I believe everything is completely better and we will never have to deal with this again -- NO. I'm sure there will be setbacks and bad days. It's good to be prepared for hard times because they always have a way of coming - at the worst time possible. Having new friends is definitely a positive.

[MiddletonMark]

Thanks for the update, glad it's a great one :)

Kudos for sticking with it, not giving up on him.

[joeychitwood]

It has been a long road, but it sounds like his life is turning around.

The one red flag remaining is his continued use of alcohol, even in reduced amounts. The truth is that chemically dependent persons cannot continue to use drugs/alcohol in moderation over time. Study after study shows that eventually usage will spiral out of control.

Hopefully, his progress will continue and he will reach a point of abstinence. **Donning flame resistant suit**

[skippy2]

So glad to hear your son is doing better. I know, being a Mom myself, you will always worry about tomorrow.

[SOMEthinsFISHY]

GREAT NEWS FOR BJ !!

[dc]

Originally posted by joeychitwood
It has been a long road, but it sounds like his life is turning around.

The one red flag remaining is his continued use of alcohol, even in reduced amounts. The truth is that chemically dependent persons cannot continue to use drugs/alcohol in moderation over time. Study after study shows that eventually usage will spiral out of control.

Hopefully, his progress will continue and he will reach a point of abstinence. **Donning flame resistant suit**

No suit needed. I think you are right tho. I have a friend of 30 years trying to stay clean. Her problem is perscription drugs. She has been in rehab several times, and alcohol is definately a trigger for her. Sometimes she goes a very long time with a small amount of drinking. And it really seems ok, but then somehow just a couple more, and those little pills go so well with it. Perdue, hopefully he will grasp this and stay on the right path. Sometimes it seems horrible to not be able to 'have fun' like others. Once you get over it, you wonder why you ever did. I've not done drugs for about 24 years, and haven't drank for about 10. I have no desire for either at this point in my life.