For all those who love V-8's and Hate those darn pocket rockets

[jonnyringo]

The best christmas poem yet!!
I thought some of you might like this

Twas the night before Christmas and caught at the light,
Was a domestic V8 and no cops in sight,
I will try, I will try, I will try with this small motor,
To beat this damn Camaro, even with its big blower,
As the light goes green and I pull like no joke,
The Camaro erupts in clouds of tire smoke,
Now Smasher, now Rev-ver, now Stroker, now Blitzin,
These are the names of my four VTEC pistons,
Racing ahead I'm the star of the action,
But I know I'm in trouble when V8 gets traction,
Grabbing second, I hear the RPM's sing,
My mirror is blocked by my shopping kart wing,
I now hear the roar of the big monster gaining,
All I can do is keep the four-banger straining,
In a second, the shock wave hits with a blast,
And my stickers go flying, now a thing of the past,
Don't bother with third, cuz now it's too late,
Just try to act cool, like you can relate,
Looking up at the taillights as they get smaller,
The driver slows down just to give me a holler,
"You can't win them all," he says in the fling,
"You may not win any, in that silly thing,"
I smiled and revved as he pulled out of sight,
With my new mods tomorrow, it will be a better night.



Matt

[Chris Mu.]

lol im sick of hondas!

[jonnyringo]

i think we all are chris.....i think we all are.

[texasreefer]

lol im sick of hondas!

I agree! A friend of mine has an old 392 Hemi that was bored and stroked that I would love to talk him out of, but he won't get rid of it.

[willieboy240]

now thats funny.

[Crusty Old Shellback]

I Love it. Hope to have my stroked 385, B&M blown motor back in the truck by this weeknd. Cracked a couple of pistons and broke a ring when it pinged on me as I blew away a new BMW roadster that was becoming a nusiance. Should have seen his face when a 40 year old primmered truck pulled away hard from him on the freeway. Man I miss driving my truck. If I can just get PAW to hurry up on those pistons before my Machinist closes for the weekend.

[jon007]

Booooooo!

[Steve_B]

Originally posted by texasreefer
I agree! A friend of mine has an old 392 Hemi that was bored and stroked that I would love to talk him out of, but he won't get rid of it.

My brothers built a car with a 392 Hemi when I was a kid. I think the engine was a 57 Chrysler. By the time I was 17 I had owned a Charger with a 426 Hemi and a Challenger with a 440 Magnum.
My wife and I currently have a C5 Corvette. I wish I could own a 4 banger with a fart can!
:lol:

[got chow]

Gotta love the good ol' american V8's. I had an LS1 Camaro but I sold it about 2 years ago and got an Audi S4. Still runs mid 13's, so it's no real slouch, but not fast either. Next car will probably be the new Mustang Cobra... love those things. :)

[jonnyringo]

I had a 86 Camaro IROC with a 350,when i was 16 but i got stolen (seriously who steals a 86 camaro come on now!) then upgraded to a 97 camaro SS, but now being in college i cant really afford the insurance ( so it sits at home in my dads barn waiting to be played with :( ) now i drive a 99 grand am GT. nice little car just not my camaro.

[Steve_B]

Sure, you can supercharge, turbocharge, add NOS to a small engine and greatly increase the HP. In the end all you have is a souped up sub compact.

[VaderWS6]

American Muscle owns rice :thumbsup:

(especially GM muscle :D )

[BigBird]

Somebody needs to tell these guys -- Dude, it's still a Neon. No matter what you riveted to the hatch.

It must be some odd behavior caused by exposure to too much hair bleach.

[jonnyringo]

Originally posted by BigBird
Somebody needs to tell these guys -- Dude, it's still a Neon. No matter what you riveted to the hatch.

It must be some odd behavior caused by exposure to too much hair bleach.


LOL----now thats funny!!

[alde]

I'll take a good old cast iron V-8 any day;) .

[Jamesurq]

Used to be into the american muscle - or at least the american V8's - Had a couple of relatively quick cars:

Chevelle (70 with a 307/2 speed powerglide)
Riviera (73 with a 455)

Not muscle cars really - but fun nevertheless.

Now with a 1 hour commute - I'm driving a 4 banger - the V8 would kill me in gas....

The Hondas with stickers and coffee can exhaust crack me up... But I like my Scooby....

[alde]

Originally posted by Jamesurq
The Hondas with stickers and coffee can exhaust crack me up... But I like my Scooby....

I get a big kick out of the great big wings and fake "ground effects" plastic stuff.

[VaderWS6]

Originally posted by Jamesurq
Used to be into the american muscle - or at least the american V8's - Had a couple of relatively quick cars:

Chevelle (70 with a 307/2 speed powerglide)
Riviera (73 with a 455)

Not muscle cars really - but fun nevertheless.

Now with a 1 hour commute - I'm driving a 4 banger - the V8 would kill me in gas....

The Hondas with stickers and coffee can exhaust crack me up... But I like my Scooby....

Try a nice aluminum block LS1 V8 :) I get 31mpg on the highway with my T-56 6 speed transmission!! The LS1 engine is very efficient, and damn powerful :spin1:

[Jamesurq]

Originally posted by VaderWS6
Try a nice aluminum block LS1 V8 :) I get 31mpg on the highway with my T-56 6 speed transmission!! The LS1 engine is very efficient, and damn powerful :spin1:

Yeah - if you stick it on cruise control and REALLY take it easy on the launches.... Trouble is - I'm all about the 0-60.... I beat my rex into submission daily and still average about 28 mpg.

[VaderWS6]

Originally posted by jonnyringo
The best christmas poem yet!!
I thought some of you might like this

Twas the night before Christmas and caught at the light,
Was a domestic V8 and no cops in sight,
I will try, I will try, I will try with this small motor,
To beat this damn Camaro, even with its big blower,
As the light goes green and I pull like no joke,
The Camaro erupts in clouds of tire smoke,
Now Smasher, now Rev-ver, now Stroker, now Blitzin,
These are the names of my four VTEC pistons,
Racing ahead I'm the star of the action,
But I know I'm in trouble when V8 gets traction,
Grabbing second, I hear the RPM's sing,
My mirror is blocked by my shopping kart wing,
I now hear the roar of the big monster gaining,
All I can do is keep the four-banger straining,
In a second, the shock wave hits with a blast,
And my stickers go flying, now a thing of the past,
Don't bother with third, cuz now it's too late,
Just try to act cool, like you can relate,
Looking up at the taillights as they get smaller,
The driver slows down just to give me a holler,
"You can't win them all," he says in the fling,
"You may not win any, in that silly thing,"




Matt

You can add my poem to yours :D

As he slows down to turn, I fly by doing 60. My flashers ablaze, SH*T! my gas gauge says empty! I throw it in 5th, pray my vtec will save me. Can I get there on fumes? Hell yes, I drive a civic baby! Just one more mile till the closest gas station, 87's what I need in this dire situation. My engine starts dying, oh no I'm so close! Can I glide there with my wing? If not I am toast! As the pistons stop fireing, 3,1,2,4 I put it in park, and open the door. A policeman pulls up and says "son whats the trouble?". (ricer)"I'm out of gas sir, I need some on the double". (cop)"Whats with that wing, and the oversized pipe?" (ricer)"I'm a street racer sir, my Honda is tight". (cop)"So you think that your Honda could take my Crown Vic? I'll buy you a gallon, and race you, no tricks" Then the cop buys me a gallon of gas, I tell him my Honda will whip his pig a$$. We pull to the line and he revs his v8, 4.6 liters of fury against my 1.8. Why am I putting myself through this humilation? Because I drive a Honda, and represent the import nation. The cop pegs the gas, he's off in an flash. I fart through 4 gears, watching my monster tach on the dash. I'm doing 80, where did he go? There he is, he's pulled over, I'll put on a show. I fly by his butt, doing 85 now. I'll prove I'm a man, this is the only way how. I hit my flashers again, like in the previous race. He hits his lights too, and begins to give chase. So it was a trick, that piggy fooled me. Another example of ricer mentality.

[phuzzy3d]

Let's see a V8 try to muscle it's way through a rally course with out smashing into a tree or wiping out in turns from all that monster torque.

I seriously don't get Nascar or oval racing for that matter. There is so little skill involved. Racing is not always about speed. It more about the driver's skill in handling multiple terrains different conditions, a car that is two bolts short of falling apart. That's why Rally racing is where it's at. It shows off the skill of drivers, cars and the crew. Not some damn Beer can sponsor.

P.S. I don't own a rice rocket or a V8. I live happily ever after in my V6 Nissan Xterra.

[Steve_B]

Originally posted by phuzzy3d


I seriously don't get Nascar or oval racing for that matter. There is so little skill involved.

I think there are some Indy drivers that may disagree. You could say the same thing about drag racing but I can assure you that a driver going from 0 to 325 MPH in 4.5 seconds has some skill controlling that car. The only others to take those kind of G forces are astronauts and fighter pilots.

[Crusty Old Shellback]

Guess you haven't been down to Baja and seen what all the big Fast trophy trucks are running when they race the Baja 1000. :D Nice big high horse, high torque V8's. Even Ivan ran a V8 in his toyota.:rolleyes:
Had some ralley racers show up one time who thought they would teach us a lesson on how to drive off road. :eek: After a day of pre running, they tucked their tails between their legs and asked if they could move to a slower class as they couldn't keep up.:eek1:
So much for your rally cars. :smokin: I haven't seen anything that can out run or out turn a trophy truck down in Baja.
Also if you were to watch enough NASCAR, you'd seem them running on road courses like Sears point up in Northern Cali.
Years ago, there was a class called GTP cars than ran nothing but high torque V8's on road courses. Man these gusy could litterly turn on a dime at 150 plus MPH.:rollface:
And as for the rest of your little poem there with the Honda, I get 14 MPG out of my 500 horse Blown V8 when I'm crusing the freeways and I don't even have overdrive. Yet.;)

[fishgeek27]

Bwahahahahahahahahaha!

I love it!

my 318 C.I. Dodge Dakota has taken out more than a couple on those things and my bike humbles the rest. They actually think they can beat a crotch rocket! I love the poem, merry Christmas to all!

[fishgeek27]

Oh yeah I might add.

A Kawasaki EX500 gets about 45 MPG and does a 0-60 in 3.5 seconds. Yes bikes rule as long as it's not raining or too cold.

[Steve_B]

Originally posted by alde
I'll take a good old cast iron V-8 any day;) .

Aluminium is lighter

[Steve_B]

Originally posted by VaderWS6
Try a nice aluminum block LS1 V8 :) I get 31mpg on the highway with my T-56 6 speed transmission!! The LS1 engine is very efficient, and damn powerful :spin1:

Don't forget, it's the ALMIGHTY LS1!
Kidding aside, it is a really good motor. We have an a4 in our Corvette because my wife can't drive stick. I think a 5-speed auto would be beneficial for performance, but it still is a strong car.

[cwbroden]

Yeah, what is with kids and their cars these days. All they want is to lower them and put lights and bad paint jobs on them.

I remember the days of BIG engines and HORSEPOWER!!!! Even back 20 years ago it was engine power. Not sure when it changed to making honda civics glow in the dark. Ugghhh...

[Steve_B]

Originally posted by cwbroden
Yeah, what is with kids and their cars these days. All they want is to lower them and put lights and bad paint jobs on them.

I remember the days of BIG engines and HORSEPOWER!!!! Even back 20 years ago it was engine power. Not sure when it changed to making honda civics glow in the dark. Ugghhh...

Fortunately there is an American performance car market again. The current cars are outperforming the muscle cars of the 60’s! The next generation Corvette will be introduced in a couple of weeks and the base model will exceed 400 HP! Yee Haa, the HP wars are going strong.

[rcmike]

<img src="http://prod.bsis.bellsouth.net/coDataImages/bellsouth/Groups/62/62255/folders/31913/188996SIGmikeav.jpg" width="470" height="117">
Finally a thread worth reading! Mine is not a rocket, but it has some get up and go for a 3 ton beast. Oh, the helicopters are fun also.:D

[Steve_B]

Originally posted by rcmike
<img src="http://prod.bsis.bellsouth.net/coDataImages/bellsouth/Groups/62/62255/folders/31913/188996SIGmikeav.jpg" width="470" height="117">
Finally a thread worth reading! Mine is not a rocket, but it has some get up and go for a 3 ton beast. Oh, the helicopters are fun also.:D

I have always wanted an RC aircraft. I guess I should just stick to my other 2 hobbies that I give a full 20% of myself to. Well maybe 12 to 15%.

[ziggaboo]

GREAT POEM!! HAHA especially the one about the crown vic - thats what i drive. Since I'm only 17 I'm around all of the ricers with the import cars. Me and my friend who drives a 89 lincoln with a 5.0 in it love to F with the ricer kids. They're like "I can take both your grandma cars" so we put them to it for money.... heh. Hate em for what they drive, love em for what they're paying in lost race fees. :D :D :D

[Aaron1100us]

I used to have a fast 350 (74 camero) Now, my daily driver is my jeep and my 57 Cadillac (365 ci 300hp 400 lbs of torqe) sits in the garage. It doesn't get up and go, can't hook up, just sits and smokes them ol' tires:) Now, my old 74 camero, that thing ran. 350 bored with TRW pisons, over and inch of valve lift, 1.6 ratio roller rockers, 750 Edelbrock, 2.02 valves, valve guides, hardened push rods, heavy valve springs and angle milled heads. It'd pull the front end off the ground without nitrous or a blower:) It died by fire though:( I remember back when I had it, my friend and I were driving down the road at about 60mph and this guy in an old monte tried to pass, so, of course, I went with him and he stayed right by my side. We were at about 130mph and he was out, so I dropped it down to 3rd and hit it, then 4th and nailed about 160mph. Those were my stupid old days:) I'd like to see a Rice Burner hit 160mph without nitrous or a supercharger:)

[jonnyringo]

^
I like the stories.

[Josh125]

Originally posted by phuzzy3d
Let's see a V8 try to muscle it's way through a rally course with out smashing into a tree or wiping out in turns from all that monster torque.


LOL, that's my favorite.....I'll get you in the twistys :)

Torque = the win....end of story.

[sherm71tank]

Say anything you want, but Ford owns all. Check out the new GT. Even the new Mercedes McLaren cant touch it.

[texasreefer]

Back when I was younger and dumber I had a old Ford pickup that had a 460 bored 60 over. It had the circular speedometer that went to 120. One day we took it out one the highway and brought the speedometer all the way around past 120 back up to 30. Luckily I only had it about 2 months before it was stolen. If it wasn't stolen I would probalby be dead.

[sherm71tank]

Had a T-Bird with a 460 that would also peg out a 120 speedo and keep it there. Till it ran out of gas anyway. LOL

[blueoceandiver]

now i miss my old mopar....magnum body with a nitrious 440 wedge h.o. was fun to kill the little wind up cars...hehehe and stangs too:D

[sherm71tank]

The Hemi's were great motors no doubt... When they were running. Which wasnt very often unfortunatley.

[texasreefer]

Problem w/ the old 460 is you could actually watch the gas gauge go down. :)

[shawnz28]

I jad a 95 Z28 which I owned from June 96 till August of this year, and I loved it. Would have gotten another but needed a bit more of a family car so I got a 01 Grand Prix GTP. Just about as quick but with more room and lots more "luxury goodies". O and a truck too!

[Frick-n-Frags]

Hey Shawn, is that one of those supercharged V-6's in that GP???

Speaking of 6's, where does my '87 turbo-regal fit in??
Muscle car or whiner, er winder or whatever :D

It's getting its engine rebuilt this winter, bored out, different cam, all the aftermarket doo-dads. It was a stock corvette killer with just some add-on stuff (until it starts going airborn then it gets too scary, needs some kind of ground effects or something)

I can't wait to see what I can punish after I get it back :D

BTW, happy holidays everybody!!!!!

[sherm71tank]

That a Grand National?

[madman01]

my summer car 85 supra modified with a blown blown 350 sb chevy it hasnt been beat by a pocket rocket yet this summer were putting in a100 shot nos kit and tubbing the rear

[chipmunk]

Where are the German V-8 fans?

Wife: E500 Sport.
Me: Possibly in 3 days, Cayenne S.

[Imaexpat2]

johnnyringo

That was too sweet. I just wish I could have been the author of that one!!!

Oh yes! How I miss the days I spent at Namiki (industrial area in Yokohama Japan where Illegal Street Racing is huge 365 days a year from 10 pm till sunrise) introducing Skyline GTR, Supra, RX-7 S., 180 SX, and Silvia driving Japanese gearheads to the wonderful world of American horse power! You would have thought that the steam rollers uner the rear fender of my 78 Camaro would have been the first clue, they were about to get smoked like a cheap cigar!!! I ended up having to sell the car, its that D-I-V-O-R-C-E thing, you know. I did get lots of video footage of it though.

[sherm71tank]

A Skyline will destroy all but the very best American muscle cars. And even the very best American car would have to be driven by a pro to win.

[Imaexpat2]

In addition to my Camaro, I owend a 1982 Skyline GTR-EX, and bought a '94 GTR. Both were fast to be sure, and they are great canyon carvers. But on 92 octane, its hard for them to compete with a well tuned 406 Chevy Small Block(Thanks to Lunati stoker parts) in a 3200lbs car with traction to spare on a 1/4 mile run. I will admit that the streetability of my Camaro was a bit questionable but it did run rather nicely on 92 octane in Tokyo's ungodly rush hour traffic without any hick-ups. I did manage to loose a few 10,000 yen bills every now and again, but not very often.

[sherm71tank]

Dont get me wrong, I loved my 71 stang with a built 302. It was very quick off the line and not much could beat it either ( in the 1/4 mile that is, after that my old S-10 could beat it in top end).Spend some time and money on the Skyline it and they really can be absolutley amazing. All wheel drive and turbo charged to over 800 horse is not very hard with one. And if you really have some extra cash the traction control device they offer will make it even quicker.

[jobryan26]

I am somewhat of an f-body guy myself.

My 87
http://67.8.58.194/zzzzzzzzzzz.jpg
My 02
http://67.8.58.194/DSC00721.JPG

More info can be found on my website http://home.swfla.rr.com/jobryan26/

[Freed]

I believe a 1967/'66/'65 or thereabouts Shelby Cobra with a 428/427 cu in. would tromp all the new comers these days, or past, in the "twistys" and on the 1/4 mile at the same time. Could be wrong though. Freed

[sherm71tank]

Yep, your wrong.

[Imaexpat2]

The Skylines are pretty brutal when it comes to "canyon carving". For a car with a under 3.0L size engine, they crank out some pretty impressive power and are pretty light too. I have had mine out on Fuji Raceway and it definitely put the thrill back in death. In a straight away on a quarter mile track there is no substitute for cubic inches with 92 octane for fuel, but they are suprisingly fast dispite! Now if the big three could implement some of that technology, like OHC, 32 valves, intercooled turbo, in a V-8 at a semi-reasonable, cost street legal format, Id be in heaven! Yeah, I know Chevy made the ZR-1 vette but there was nothing remotely affordable about that. A ZL-1 aluminum 427 in a 4th gen Camaro/Firebird would be the next best thing though....I wonder just how far Mopar can take the 5.7L Hemi?

[tom@kartboy.com]

Originally posted by blown63chevy
Years ago, there was a class called GTP cars than ran nothing but high torque V8's on road courses. Man these gusy could litterly turn on a dime at 150 plus MPH.:rollface:


umm if i remember right GTP cars had to be under 2 L motors
gurneys toyotas that fangio and PJ jones were making well over 1000HP out of a "lil 2.0 liter motor.

i'd be willing to run my Stage 2 Evo against any of your cars :)

yes i've built many customers cars for NMCA but their all tanks and handled like it too...

i'll still happily take a 2.0 turbo AWD car anyday

Tom@kartboy.com

good to see a few subaru fans here too!

[sherm71tank]

I just wish the Skylines were legal in the states. However I do really like the new Subaru's boxer type motors at 300 HP and the finally realeased Mitsubishi Lancer Evolutions are looking pretty good too.

[tom@kartboy.com]

you can get legal skylines in the US now :) motrex in LA area are importing them and making them street legal.

a GTR34 would look real nice next to the EVO8 and our USDM STi

Tom

[Imaexpat2]

Small engines with astronomically over driven superchargers, high compression (13.5 to 1 plus) ratios, ungodley RPM's, and running on alcohol in some form or another, in a stripped out race car can do some great things, no doubt about that one. NASCAR is doing some pretty impressive things with SBC engines, so much so they decided to force restrictor plates on racers engines, and they are still getting up to 170-180 on some of the tracks with longer straight aways. You know your really moving when you got to install flaps on your car to keep it from grabbing air when you lose it on a course. .Now thats American muscle!

I am sorry for being so biased, but there is nothing thats raises my blood pressure quiet like getting behind the wheel of a well made BB V-8 and cranking her over and feeling it rumbble to life. Thats more ecitement than the law should permit!!! Making a under 7 second pass in the quarter mile is out right bliss!!! More than I was able to handle anyways.....(another driver got it down to 6.21 seconds that day), I just didnt have enough *****(guts) to push it that hard. BTW, I thought the 5 point harness was to protect me if I wrecked the car but after pulling the chutes, I discovered it was to KEEP me in the car seat! Man was that an E-Ticket ride.....

[sherm71tank]

Originally posted by tom@kartboy.com
you can get legal skylines in the US now :) motrex in LA area are importing them and making them street legal.

a GTR34 would look real nice next to the EVO8 and our USDM STi

Tom Oh man... nothing better than the feel of all 4 tires ripping the road to pieces and pulling you so hard thru the corners that you actually feel guilty about it.

[tom@kartboy.com]

Originally posted by sherm71tank
Oh man... nothing better than the feel of all 4 tires ripping the road to pieces and pulling you so hard thru the corners that you actually feel guilty about it.

YES!!!
we just ran the evo on the AWD Dyno yesterday. on a mix of 91 and C16 we saw 423HP and 450 tq!!! all on a stock motor.

not bad for a "ricer" :eek1:

[Imaexpat2]

tom@kartboy.com
Yeah thats pretty respectable, and probably a lot of fun too!!! It is pretty amazing what you can do with one of the little import engines when you tweak them.

Nissan is finally getting the Skyline in America, I may have to check that out. They have been saying that for years but I have yet to see one......

It would make a nice daily driver, but I still want to get a 67 Camaro and shoe horn a 541 BBC into it and go out looking for those pesky late model Mustangs and Mitsubishi's. Yeah I know, thats pretty unfair, but it would but it would be a lot of fun though!

[rbattle]

Imaexpat2

I have been wanting to do that for a long time too! I guess there must be a lot of people that want to do that huh?

Rush

[Imaexpat2]

Yeah the divorce really killed me, besides, I probably would have lost my D/L about the first 5 minutes after completing the project, if I didnt wrap it around a tree first! I guess you gotta grow up, you know...mature a little bit, sooner or later. But I am getting the itch for another "project car" again!!! I really miss the gear head/race club scene...its been way too long........

[Aaron1100us]

How about a 1977 Pontiac Firebird with an olds 455 with twin turbos and nitrous:) My friends Uncle has this car, yellow with the gold bird on the hood. Totally stock looking from the outside, except the dual 3 and a half inch pipes comming out the back. 750hp and who knows how much torque pushed this car to 90mph in 1/16th of a mile. Don't try reaching for the radio knob when you hit the gas, it won't happen:)

[sherm71tank]

Thats good, I had 1974 Firebird with 455 Olds, high rise manifold up through the hood that you could see the entire carb. But at 6 mpg I couldnt afford to drive it!! Still it was nice to drive 120 mph and still have 3/4 throttle left.

[Lionfish01]

I really wish my dad kept his 77' Gran Prix. It had a 400 in it and a big system in it too. He sold it about 3 or 4 years ago.

[thrlride]

I finally got to drive my fathers '94 ZR1 on Wednesday night. It is very fast and felt strong too! It ran a quarter in 12.5 and did 370hp at the rear wheels.

[Josh125]

AWD is a good concept, the parasitic lose is too great IMO. What kind of bottom ends EVO's have? That is the real problem with S/Cing a N/A car. You almost have to build the bottom end at the same time ( unless you don't want to max out the boost, but what fun is that )

[tom@kartboy.com]

Originally posted by Josh125
AWD is a good concept, the parasitic lose is too great IMO. What kind of bottom ends EVO's have? That is the real problem with S/Cing a N/A car. You almost have to build the bottom end at the same time ( unless you don't want to max out the boost, but what fun is that )

AWD is a excelent concept. mitsubishi has a great commbination for their AWD system to have one of the lowest parasitic loses.

the EVO's have a killer bottom end. many evo members are pushing 500WHP with a stock motor. its all about the engine management! none of that car-bu-tater stuff here :p

FYI the EVO runs 21 PSI STOCK! with our shop car we raised the boost to 22 on the street map and 25 on the race map

other parts include a 3" turbo back exhaust, adj cam gears, and a XEDE piggyback ECU. thats it! less than 3K in mods to run high 11's and sub 4 0-60.


FWIW i had a older subaru RS factory NA was 165/165
i built a custom turbo kit for it, on the STOCK motor.
just a TEC2 standalone ECU,550 injectors and a hiflow pump
i was running 375 WHP 425TQ
the car ran flawlessly for 50K till i sold the car to a punk kid that totaled it on the track :(


Dont get me wrong a BBC has its place.... for a tow-rig for my race trailer :smokin:

Happy Shifting
Tom

[Aaron1100us]

Its cool to have all that power in a little four or six banger. That is, untill the engine goes because it can't stay together for thousands of miles. Just not as much metal as a V-8. Too much strain on the small, ity bity baby sized pistons and other parts. Ever seen a four banger that had a super charger, turbo or nitrous with 150,000 miles on it and still running strong without an overhaul? Hehehehe, I don't think so. Pure physics. V-8 engines are much bigger and have alot more metal, therefore, they can handle the stress of all that power for thousands of miles. Don't get me wrong, they can still go out because from the abuse of alot of power but they sure will handle it better, especially if they are built right. Pure physics.

[tom@kartboy.com]

yup i've seen many V8's go bang too.
i spend 3 years at Roush industries in Mi. 2 years at Swift Engineering building Newman Hass CART cars. 5-7 years doing NMCA shootout cars. i built the car that used to have the fastest street legal title. 7.70 at 157 in a 3500# 55 Chevy. nice sleeper.

its all on how you tune the car. i have well over 3000 dyno pulls on my EVO and the Leakdown is 0-5% on every hole. :)

but hey to each their own.


i just did a blast from SD to SF in 5 hours flat :0
and the car got 20+mpg the whole time.

Tom

[Josh125]

Tom - post up a pull if you have it. I am interested to see the the torque curve.

[tom@kartboy.com]

Josh
i'll have to get that for you when i get back home to SD. i'm at the rents for the holidays.

but i see about 20# boost at 3500 redline is bumped to 8200 :)

Tom

[Sparkysreef]

Great poem. I am a 70 chevelle owner. i just built a new computer, reused the hard drive and didn't back up the chevelle pics. I'll have to take more with the new digital cam.
Hope to have my 700r4 and TPI inj. in by spring.

[sherm71tank]

TPI on a 70 Chevelle, very nice work.

[Sparkysreef]

Doing all my own work to boot.

[stereomandan]

Originally posted by tom@kartboy.com
YES!!!
we just ran the evo on the AWD Dyno yesterday. on a mix of 91 and C16 we saw 423HP and 450 tq!!! all on a stock motor.

not bad for a "ricer" :eek1:

O.k., but what are you running with straight 91 Octane. Also, I get the feeling that you converted those numbers from WHP to engine HP, am I correct?

What is your definition of stock engine? Obviously not the same as mine.

If you are spinning up to 8300 RPM, then why is your HP so low if your TQ is at 450? According to my calculations, that means that you maxed out at only 4935 RPM. Is that right? If so, why would you want to spin it up to 8300 RPM?

Dan

[aberg12012]

Originally posted by BigBird
Somebody needs to tell these guys -- Dude, it's still a Neon. No matter what you riveted to the hatch.

It must be some odd behavior caused by exposure to too much hair bleach.



This is just so funny! HAHAHA that is so true... I can't belive all the stupid "tricked out" neons running around here!!! As if the Civics arn't silly enough, then some weirdo with a neon says, "Hay, I can make my car look like that..." Makes me wanna push them outa the way in traffic with my chevy 2500! Instead I just pull along beside them, and rev the straight pipped v8 to show who's really the boss... LOL

I will admit, however, I am a very proud owner of a Honda 4 cyl VTEC... but's its only got 2 wheels, and It's not full of stupid stickers! ;)

[SPStoner]

I have to admit, nothing beats pulling up to a light in my new Hemi Durango and glancing over to see a Neon or Civic with some snot nosed kid with shades on thinking he's Vin Diesel.... I think the best part of all is when said SNK guns it off the light and we hear the refeshing weedwacker-esque whine of his 13 HP rice burner.....These cars may be quick, but who wants to sound like a lawn mower on helium!!!

God, I love America.......

[texasreefer]

personnally I prefer the frame twisting torque of a V-8. A friend of mine used to have a 49 Chevy pick-up w/ a 327 that he had to screw the tires to the rims because he would spin the tires off the rim if he didn't.

[sherm71tank]

I knew someone who had a Toyota pickup with a 327 in it that seriously built. Talk about getting your attention! I heard a few times in the parking lot at a mechanics school I went to but couldnt figure out where it was coming from. Very clean install and a wicked cam.

[bmcelhinn]

I don't mind worthy imports at all. I am far more impressed with a car that runs 16's stock being turned into a car that runs 11's Than I am with a car that runs 13's stock running 11's. I have a 2000 Mustang GT V8 and 71 Camaro with a 350, but I've owned alot of cars. I had an eclipse that would kill the camaro, and a 3000GT that was 320 horses... Stock and was all wheel drive that would make a ***** out of my mustang. I give credit where credit is due. I guess the stereotypical white trash who thinks he's being patriotic driving domestics and hates imports which he knows little or nothing about ruins my two "nice" domestics for me.

[stereomandan]

Originally posted by bmcelhinn
I don't mind worthy imports at all. I am far more impressed with a car that runs 16's stock being turned into a car that runs 11's Than I am with a car that runs 13's stock running 11's. I have a 2000 Mustang GT V8 and 71 Camaro with a 350, but I've owned alot of cars. I had an eclipse that would kill the camaro, and a 3000GT that was 320 horses... Stock and was all wheel drive that would make a ***** out of my mustang. I give credit where credit is due. I guess the stereotypical white trash who thinks he's being patriotic driving domestics and hates imports which he knows little or nothing about ruins my two "nice" domestics for me.

What times were you running with the Eclipse and the 3000GT?

Dan

[Freed]

These cars may be quick, but who wants to sound like a lawn mower on helium!!!

God, I love America....... [/B][/QUOTE]

I agree whole heartedly. They actually sound like weed whackers in a coffee can. Bugs the he$$ out of me every time I hear one, I want to swat at it with a fly swatter. Freed

[sherm71tank]

Obviously havent heard the New Subaru STi.

[stereomandan]

Originally posted by sherm71tank
Obviously havent heard the New Subaru STi.

They are talking about the aftermarket exhausts that people are putting on the 4 cylinder engines.

The WRX's do sound nice, as well as the SRT4's when they are stock.

Dan

[sherm71tank]

Yeah I know what they are talking about. But to say that all non V-8 cars sound like lawnmowers on helium just isnt true. Thats all I was trying to point out.

[tom@kartboy.com]

Hi
i'm still here in the bay area. so no dyno posts yet.

i'm finding it useless to post anything more on this thread. Most of the people on this thread are too close minded to even think about something that isnt a "good ol'merkan car"
thats fine with me. i still sell a ton of our parts to those kids that do like the "other" types of cars :) and these kids help fund my tank :D

Tom

[jobryan26]

Personnally I don't care if a 4 or 6 cylinder is faster than my cars. My only grip is dressing them up like Tammy Faye Baker and making them sound like Steve Urkel.

[stereomandan]

Originally posted by tom@kartboy.com
Hi
i'm still here in the bay area. so no dyno posts yet.

i'm finding it useless to post anything more on this thread. Most of the people on this thread are too close minded to even think about something that isnt a "good ol'merkan car"
thats fine with me. i still sell a ton of our parts to those kids that do like the "other" types of cars :) and these kids help fund my tank :D

Tom

I don't doubt what the 4 cylinder turbo engines are capable of, but some of the numbers you threw down seemed a little too high.

Would you be able to answer any of my previous questions?

Dan

[bmcelhinn]

I haven't ever been to the track or a dyno with my cars. When I say 320 horses on the 3000GT it's because those are the stock numbers. I'm sure you can find them online if you don't believe me. If you think I am just some import fan making stories up, I can post pics of my current cars. I'm not taking sides on the subject, I am a car enthusiast, I could find good points in any car. I miss my 3000GT and I'd still be driving it if a friend didn't wreck it.

[stereomandan]

I was wondering, because you said that the 3000 GT would kill your 2000 Mustang GT.

Knowing what both of those cars car run at the track, the 3000GT would not kill the Mustang. It would be a very close race for the Mustang. I'm a Z28 owner, so I'm not trying to defend the Mustang, but just pointing out that the 3000GT would get a better launch, but the Mustang or the Camaro would start walking on it, and then pass it a little before the 1/4 mile mark.

Of coarse, on the street, if you are only going to race from light to light, and you can't get the speed up very fast, the 3000GT has a better chance due to it's ability to launch well.

'93+ Z28's will start to pass the 3000GT by the end of second gear (65-70 mph).

The 3000GT may have 320HP, but that is due to the higher redline, and doesn't mean anything about acceleration. They are beautiful cars to look at and can be downright mean when modified, just like any other car.

I'm not an import hater. I give respect where respect is due.

Dan

[bmcelhinn]

And, if you every read the DuPont's Registry. They talk about special ordering the Mitsubishi Evolution VIII, and that with "Minor Adjustments" i.e. turning up the boost on the turbo etc. you can be running 400+ horses on the stock motor. Sure there are idiots putting stickers, wings and exhaust on a civic and thinking they have a rocket. But there are also very worthy opponents of american V8's... 93-98 supra TT= 320 HP. 97-98 Mitsubishi 3000GT AWD= 320 HP. 93-2002 Mazda RX-7= 255 HP
2003 Subaru WRX ST-i = 300 HP. 91-95 Celica GT-4 AWD=287 HP.
90-98 Nissan 300ZX TT=300 HP. Nissan 350Z=290HP. Acura NSX=290HP. Acura TL=270 HP. Mazda RX-8=240HP Honda S2000=240HP etc.
Now for americans you have, 97-2004 Corvette-340HP/Z06=405HP. 99-02 Firebird/Camaro LS1=320 99-04 Mustang GT=260HP/03+ Cobra=390 HP. 04 Viper=500HP. etc.
And if you read this months edition of HOT ROD magazine, they are comparing the 390HP mustang cobra with the 300HP Subaru WRX ST-i. Both are running similar times=13 seconds in the quarter mile. So don't compare cars that are in seperate classes, comparing a civic with the WS6 trans am is not a comparison, compare a civic si with a ford focus or something if you want to compare imports and domestics.

[bmcelhinn]

Yeah Dan, I hate to come on here and flame or argue (I'm at work right now) but some of these narrow minded people talk about things that they know nothing about. I get sick of that, I have a friend who thinks all imports are 120HP 4cyl. FWD. I like american cars as much as europeans or japanese. I don't feel patriotic buying one car or the other. Mitsubishi's are made in Illinois and Toyotas and Hondas are made in california. Things aren't what they seem anymore with cars, and that's fine with me because I only buy a car because I like it. Not to fit in or make people like me, or to be patriotic.

[bmcelhinn]

Oh and BTW, I love the LS-1. I just got the 6-speed and I'm putting it in the camaro, I'm getting the LS-1 next. I guess I"m going for the pro touring theme if you want to categorize it.

[bmcelhinn]

and adjusting the boost does wonders on any turbo application. My friend has an 86 volvo wagon turbo. He is running 14lbs of boost, and he took my mustang a few times.

[Crusty Old Shellback]

Hey bmcelhinn,
Not all 4 cylinders are created the same as you say. There are some guys running NHRA S-10 trucks with 4 bangers putting out close to 1000HP. But I bet it dosent sound anything like the 4 banger coffee can exhaust cars you hear on the street. Sound wise, there's nothing like a high HP V8. That low ground shaking rumble is awsome.
Tom,
I do beleive the GTP's were over 3 liters. It was the GTU that was under 3 liters and then they had the GTP lights that were 2 liters and the pontiac Fiero with a Iron Duke 4 banger rulled that class. Wish they would bring those guys back as I loved watching them run at Del Mar.

[Josh125]

Just gave her a bath now back to the garage till spring :)

http://joshtalley.smugmug.com/photos/1767741-M.jpg
http://joshtalley.smugmug.com/photos/1767743-M.jpg

[SPStoner]

I have no problem with imports, and definitely recognize their capabilities ( My wife drives a 95 Acura NSX). My beef is with the kids who think by adding a wing and a subwoofer to their 40HP Civic that they will be able to outrun anyone on the road. You know who I mean, the ones with the shades and the thunping bass....

[stereomandan]

Originally posted by Josh125
Just gave her a bath now back to the garage till spring :)


Looks very clean! Black is a beautiful color. I just wish haze marks didn't show so easily. Black cars are stunning at night with the all the reflections.

I chose the opposite. I have bright white. It looks clean for a long time and cleans up nice. I don't get the reflective gloss that black gets gets though.

Here's mine. I have a few mods to the suspension as well as the motor.
http://mail.chartermi.net/~stereomandan/pics/z28front.jpg
and my Christmas present for the car.
http://mail.chartermi.net/~stereomandan/pics/headers.jpg
Dan

[Habib]

here are my cars, the grey camaro is a 70, it has been sold, the white one is my current '71. http://www.digitalpose.com/mbr/1/34454/p/621369_8084952166093556011_t.jpg
2000 Mustang GT, 4.6 V8, 70mm throttle body, eibach 1.5" lowering springs/sway bars. Cold air intake, Dual Flowmasters, 2 12" boston accoustic subs, 1 400x4 1 800x2 amps, 60x4 deck. auto, leather, custom guages.
http://www.digitalpose.com/mbr/1/34454/p/621370_3661725720070292156_t.jpg
My new 1971 camaro, aluminum intake, headers, 650 holley carb, .30 over, 3.5 inch cowl hood, full set of autometer pro comp guages, T56 6-speed on it's way via con-way trucking:D
http://www.digitalpose.com/mbr/1/34454/p/621371_5915415278270815947_t.jpg

BTW, I got rid of the 70 camaro because it had a hefty cam that didn't produce too much vaccuum, 12.5:1 compression pistons...Ran like **** even on premium unless it was from chevron, and then you still had to let it warm up for about 20 minutes before you drove it, the 71 is a more worthy car for the Ls1 I'm putting in.

[Habib]

http://www.digitalpose.com/mbr/1/34454/p/621369_8084952166093556011_vl.jpg
http://www.digitalpose.com/mbr/1/34454/p/621370_3661725720070292156_vl.jpg
http://www.digitalpose.com/mbr/1/34454/p/621371_5915415278270815947_vl.jpg


That's more like it.

[bmcelhinn]

***??? I posted ^Those Pics!! It is saying "Habib" did. I'm not signed in as Habib, and I don't know Habib. I'm Bmcelhinn!!

[bmcelhinn]

http://www.digitalpose.com/mbr/1/34454/p/621390_1195555401258357505_vl.jpg

[Steve_B]

Install a twin turbo on a high performance American V8 and here
is what you get:

Lingenfelter Installed Engine Packages

1997-2004 Corvette Twin Turbo LS1, ZO6
550 BHP / 550 lbs-ft of torque
500+ rear wheel hp

:hammer: :hammer:

Lets see what a turbo Honda with a fart can, big wing and a bunch of stickers can will do up against that;)

[bmcelhinn]

Lets see what a turbo Honda with a fart can, big wing and a bunch of stickers can will do up against that

Why not compare a 600 Horsepower Twin Turbo 3.0 straight 6 Toyota Supra to it?

What you are saying is like, let's put a 86 IROC up against a 456 HP Porsche GT2.
At least be realistic man. I don't think a Lingenfelter and a Civic would be a race. And if they did race, I don't think the owner of the Vette would brag to his friends that he can beat a Civic.

And Dan, I know a mustang or camaro might beat most of the AWD's in the 1/4 (not the evolution VIII) You said they love to brag about 0-60 times, and real races are won in the quarter mile. Yes, they are called drag races, I think an AWD car would have our cars for breakfast on a real course or in an auto x competition.

[bmcelhinn]

Look up supras on the net there are plenty of 800 or 900+ horsepower Supras, I saw one that was 1200HP before.

[photobarry]

If you want something that really sounds nice get a V-12. Preferably in something red. :D

[Steve_B]

Originally posted by bmcelhinn
Look up supras on the net there are plenty of 800 or 900+ horsepower Supras, I saw one that was 1200HP before.

Don't get me wrong; I have owned a Supra and a 3000GT. They are great cars. I was making statements based upon the starting point of this thread. The whole overmod thing that kids are doing with their subcompact econo boxes is what I'm addressing. Go ahead and dump a ton of money into a Civic and all you have in the end is a Civic.:)

[Steve_B]

If this topic becomes any more heated I will be forced to move it to the RAP site! And that goes for the other thread that makes fun of mullets and smoke spewing old American cars.

Thank you,

Arnold P. Horsgravel
Junior mod

[VaderWS6]

Originally posted by bmcelhinn
Oh and BTW, I love the LS-1. I just got the 6-speed and I'm putting it in the camaro, I'm getting the LS-1 next. I guess I"m going for the pro touring theme if you want to categorize it.


Good choice :thumbsup:

[jonnyringo]

A little side note John Lingenfelter, died last week. he was an awesome engine builder and good reacer to boot.

Matt

[cyclist1]

It all depends on what you want your car to do well in. An American V8 powered car will do well in the 1/4, while many imports with 4 or 6 cyclinder engines will destroy them in the twisties. I prefer a car that will handle well which rules out a lot of the American muscle cars. My father-in-law just sold his Porsche 911 turbo (awsome car) and bought an M3 so he had a slightly more practical daily driver. I would put the M3 up against any American V8 in the twisties any day. He still has a Porsche 914 with a suped up 3.0 litre 911 engine in it that will out handle any car that I have ever seen. It also accelerates like a bat out of h3ll.

All of my cars have been imports (VW and Toyota). My wife drives a Saturn. I choose my cars for their reliability. When I decide to purchase a realy performance car, I am going to consider the build quality over the ease of modification. I will probably go with an imported car, most likely a Porsche. They are well built cars and retain their value. I have seen several Porsche 911's with more than 190,000 miles on the original engine that still perform very well. Many American V8's seem to need a rebuild after 150,000 miles and lose power well before that.

I am not going to get into a debate about foreign vs Domestic, or small displacement vs large. I just choose the car that is going to meet my needs/wants the best. Right now, most of them are made outside the US. If a US based company made a good performing car with a 50/50 weight distribution and good reliablity I would consider purchasing one. Otherwise, my choice will be the best car that fits my intended uses.

BTW: Fart pipes are not performance mods. They are rice. I have seen some Acura Integra VTECS with some pretty mean sounding exhaust pipes and real performance mods beat American V8's by a considerable distance. Don't just judge an engine or car by the number of cylinders it has. Judge them by their performance on the track. You will be surprised at what a properly built 4 banger can run at the track while still being reliable and legal as a daily driver.

Andrew

Andrew

[Steve_B]

Originally posted by jonnyringo
A little side note John Lingenfelter, died last week. he was an awesome engine builder and good reacer to boot.

Matt

<<Fred J Allen posted on the NHRA Comp/Modified Forum last night

With great sadness I am sorry to inform my fellow racers that our dear
friend, and long time racer John Lingenfelter has passed away. He passed away the
evening of December 25th. Arrangements are pending at this time and will be
posted at a later date. John will be greatly missed by his family and many
friends. >>

[stereomandan]

Originally posted by cyclist1
It all depends on what you want your car to do well in. An American V8 powered car will do well in the 1/4, while many imports with 4 or 6 cyclinder engines will destroy them in the twisties. I prefer a car that will handle well which rules out a lot of the American muscle cars. My father-in-law just sold his Porsche 911 turbo (awsome car) and bought an M3 so he had a slightly more practical daily driver. I would put the M3 up against any American V8 in the twisties any day. He still has a Porsche 914 with a suped up 3.0 litre 911 engine in it that will out handle any car that I have ever seen. It also accelerates like a bat out of h3ll.

All of my cars have been imports (VW and Toyota). My wife drives a Saturn. I choose my cars for their reliability. When I decide to purchase a realy performance car, I am going to consider the build quality over the ease of modification. I will probably go with an imported car, most likely a Porsche. They are well built cars and retain their value. I have seen several Porsche 911's with more than 190,000 miles on the original engine that still perform very well. Many American V8's seem to need a rebuild after 150,000 miles and lose power well before that.

I am not going to get into a debate about foreign vs Domestic, or small displacement vs large. I just choose the car that is going to meet my needs/wants the best. Right now, most of them are made outside the US. If a US based company made a good performing car with a 50/50 weight distribution and good reliablity I would consider purchasing one. Otherwise, my choice will be the best car that fits my intended uses.

BTW: Fart pipes are not performance mods. They are rice. I have seen some Acura Integra VTECS with some pretty mean sounding exhaust pipes and real performance mods beat American V8's by a considerable distance. Don't just judge an engine or car by the number of cylinders it has. Judge them by their performance on the track. You will be surprised at what a properly built 4 banger can run at the track while still being reliable and legal as a daily driver.

Andrew

Andrew

Try a Z06 and you'll change your story.

Dan

[VaderWS6]

Originally posted by jonnyringo
A little side note John Lingenfelter, died last week. he was an awesome engine builder and good reacer to boot.

Matt

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=289385

[cutelilfishes]

A number of years ago I was at the local (Legal) Drag Strip, a buddy wanted a grudge match against me, he had a Honda V45 Sabre and I had my 65 GTO, on the 1/4 mile I beat him by a good second and a half.
Let's see a V8 try to muscle it's way through a rally course with out smashing into a tree or wiping out in turns from all that monster torque.
When the Pontiac GTO came out in 64 there was a hullaballu in Europe over an American car company using the beloved Ferrari name sake. Pontiac sent over a Catalina with the GTO handling package, they raced it on a road course against the Ferrari. The Pontiac didn't win but considering the Catalina weighed in a whopping 900 pounds heavier than the Pontiac GTO you have to wonder... Oh the Ferrari beat the Catalina by a mere 4 seconds, the crowd however loved the big pontiac sliding sideways through the corners and keeping the rubber on the melting point.

[stereomandan]

Originally posted by cutelilfishes
A number of years ago I was at the local (Legal) Drag Strip, a buddy wanted a grudge match against me, he had a Honda V45 Sabre and I had my 65 GTO, on the 1/4 mile I beat him by a good second and a half.
Let's see a V8 try to muscle it's way through a rally course with out smashing into a tree or wiping out in turns from all that monster torque.
When the Pontiac GTO came out in 64 there was a hullaballu in Europe over an American car company using the beloved Ferrari name sake. Pontiac sent over a Catalina with the GTO handling package, they raced it on a road course against the Ferrari. The Pontiac didn't win but considering the Catalina weighed in a whopping 900 pounds heavier than the Pontiac GTO you have to wonder... Oh the Ferrari beat the Catalina by a mere 4 seconds, the crowd however loved the big pontiac sliding sideways through the corners and keeping the rubber on the melting point.

So are you saying all the European V8's can't handle too? You're talking yourself into circles. Rally cars are designed differently than track cars. They are typically AWD and are more the STI and EVO style of vehicles. If you really want to go fast on the street however, look to the V8 powered supercars like the Ferrari's and the Z06. There is nothing crazy about a V8 that makes it hard to drive. There is just more power on demand; something that many of the 4 cyl vehicles lack. If you have a high speed internet connection, check out this video. It is a modified C5 corvette, not even the Z06, racing a Race Modified Lotus Elise at the awesome Nuerburgring track in Germany. You will see that the Lotus hangs with the corvette in the twisties and even comes close to passing, but by the end of the coarse, the corvette is so far ahead that the Elise driver can't even see him anymore.
Enjoy:
http://www.smudo.com/smudo/bigdata/elise_vs_corvette.mpg

Dan

[jonnyringo]

sorry guys i missed that thread

Matt

[stereomandan]

Beautiful vehicles bmcelhinn!

I like the mods to the GT. Changing the front swaybar on my Z28 made a HUGE difference in handling. I love it. Did you notice a big difference with your sway bar set? For the Camaro's the front bar is all that is needed. Anything bigger in the rear and we get too much oversteer. I might lower my car, but I don't want the ride to get to stiff and bouncy like some lowering springs like to do. I did change out my shocks for Bilstein's though. I love them. The combo of the shocks and the sway bar is awesome. I also welded in subframe connectors to keep the chassis very rigid. This winter I will be putting on a full exhaust (Headers, High Flow Cat, and Hooker cat-back) I have a K&N Cold Air intake already. If money permits, I'll ba changing out the cam and adding roller rockers as well before the end of the summer. I'm looking to put down 340 rwhp and 340 rwtq before it's done, on a daily driver. That equates to about 385 engine HP.

Oh I have a custom audio system as well.(not to your level though.) I used to have systems like that, but in this vehicle I wanted to minimize the audio, but still have something decent. I didn't want overkill, and I didn't want it to take up any space. I added a JL audio 10" sub that is in a custom enclosure molded to slide into the side rear area so it doesn't interfere at all with the T-top storage. It's powered by a Phoenix Gold amp, with a sweet passive crossover that also powers my Boston Acoustic seperates up front all run by a Alpine head unit.

Again, beautiful cars you have there bmcelhinn (I mean habib :D )

Dan

[photobarry]

Originally posted by stereomandan
Try a Z06 and you'll change your story.

Dan

But Z06's aren't reliable. My boss has one and all sorts of things are going wrong with it and the dealerships seem pretty incompetant when it comes to fixing it. And these aren't all problems because its a new car. Some of them have been consisten problems for over 20 years of corvettes (gearbox leaking for one).

I've gotten him hooked into taking it out to the track (road course) with some regularity. I went out to Willow Springs with him once and that thing sure does have a decent amount of power. The only embarrasing thing was that I was faster through the corners in my mildly modded Honda Accord. Anyway, he's starting to think that it would have been a better idea to buy a spec Miata for taking to the track. Tires are much less expensive and some of the guys running them with racing slicks are unbelievably fast.

I will agree that the riced out hondas are incredibly lame. Us Honda/import drivers who actually take our cars out to the track make fun of them even more than you muscle car guys.

[stereomandan]

Was it the driver or the vehicle that made him slower through the corners?

Corvette's are not unreliable. Your buddy has had a bad experience. They are not the MOST reliable cars either, but they certainly aren't bad. The performance you get for the price is outstanding.

Miata's are dang impressive on the road coarses. Mod the engine a little to get more power and they are hard to beat.

Dan

[photobarry]

It was the driver. He's gotten a lot faster now though. I did impress a guy driving a Boxter S on slicks. I could pretty much keep up with him through the corners as well but he blew me away on the straights.

The car may not be that unreliable but it is a bit unnerving when the stability control and traction control start going haywire while out on the track. Darn electronics! LOL

Those Miatas can be nuts, especially for a hairdresser's car. They look like a lot of fun too. Too bad I'm 6ft tall and don't really fit in one. One of the fastest 'normal' cars I've seen at the track was an S2000 on Hoosiers. It was the only car that could keep up with my friend's Formula Ford.

[silentshadow]

Yeah I've been into domestics for a really long time. My friends owns a black on black mustang 00 GT. He belongs to a local mustang club and we're always goin to the tracks. There's a guy that owns 3 saleens about an hour north of us. Lucky SOB has 2 S-281-E's and the ever so coveted red S-351 convertible(175,000 car)....can we say don't mess your pants.
As far as hondas i'd only ever want an S-2000, 240 hp on such a small car is fun. His mom's gettin it supercharged and is expecting 50-75 % hp gains.
Driving a honda should be like having sex.....slow, obnoxious and loud enough for everyone to hear

[cutelilfishes]

Originally posted by stereomandan
So are you saying all the European V8's can't handle too? You're talking yourself into circles.
Dan I don't understand where you got that idea, nothing in my post said anything about the Ferrari not handling. The PONTIAC was the wild one...

[stereomandan]

Originally posted by cutelilfishes
Let's see a V8 try to muscle it's way through a rally course with out smashing into a tree or wiping out in turns from all that monster torque.


That should explain it.

Dan

[cutelilfishes]

AHH Dan that was a quote from a previous post that someone else made, I'm not sure why it didn't come up as a post but I was responding to their statement, I don't agree with that for a second.

Origonal post was by Phuzzy3D on page 1 of the thread.

[stereomandan]

O.k. Sorry about that. I didn't realize it was a quote from someone else.

Happy New Year.

Again, Sorry.

Dan

[cutelilfishes]

No worries I must not have done the "quote" thing correctly.

Happy New Year

Doug

[jobryan26]

Where ever there is a V-6 pushing 1000+ there is a V-8 pushing a hell of a lot more. And yeah there is a 1500hp Supra running 7 secs in the 1/4 which is also powered by a 4.3 V-8 Twin Turbo (1UZ-FE HKS Supra ).

Worlds fastest 1/4 (minus the rocket powered drag race cars of the 70's that ran low 3's)

Domestic
Class E.T. Speed Date Driver/Car Location
Top Fuel 4.477 06/02/01 Kenny Bernstein - TX
Top Fuel 332.75 04/04/03 Larry Dixon - IN
Funny Car 4.721 06/01/03 John Force - CA
Funny Car 328.06 06/01/03 Gary Scelzi - CA
Pro Stock 6.670 207.18 05/18/03 Greg Anderson -NC

Import:
Pro 6.78 205.47 Toyota Solara George Ioannou (1400hp, Bullish Motor Racing)


OWNED!
http://67.8.58.194/slap.gif

[Steve_B]

Some stats on the new Corvette "World class performance car" compared to others in the same ball park.


Not only does the LS2 engine deliver impressive horsepower, but in a true measure of real-world efficiency, it also boasts the best combination of horsepower and fuel economy among the world’s best performance cars. When the LS2’s 400 horsepower is multiplied by its 22.6 mpg combined city/highway mileage estimates, it yields a total of 9,040. Here’s how the C6 compares with some of its key competitors:

Vehicle
HP
MPG comb
Index

C6 Corvette
400
22.6
9,040

Porsche 911 GT2
477
18.2
8,681

Porsche Turbo
444
18.2
8,081

Dodge Viper
500
15.5
7,750

Porsche 911
340
20.6
7004

Ferrari 575 Maranello
515
12.7
6,541

Ferrari Modena
400
12.7
5,080

[ziggaboo]

This is the kind of stuff that cracks me up...people get defensive about everything. I think what we're all talking about that we don't like is the kids from my generation who dont have any money for any mods to their mom's old civic. They get fart cans, wings that they don't need, and intakes for them and drive around town like they're hot **** THINKING that a stock civic EX would tear alot of muscle cars a new one. This is the stuff that ****es me off. Now if you can show up in a SWEET import that can actually go, and isn't all show then come and talk to me. Until then, I'll keep my V8, and you'll keep saying that you can take me in the corners, and that you get more HP per liter. TELL IT TO MY TAILLIGHTS YOU BLEACH HAIRED *****ES.

[bmcelhinn]

According to car and driver civics can keep up with your muscle car. They did a comparison on kids modifying imports these days and kids modifying muscle cars in the 60's and 70's. the actually compared the 2002 (year article ran) Civic Si with a 1969 Mustang Mach 1 with a 351. And they both performed the same 1/4 and 0-60 times. The only thing was that the civic beat the mustang in braking slalom and about everything else. I remember they compared either 3 or 5 cars, or each generation and they were all about the same. I don't think my musclecar is very fast. My Eclipse (2001 2.4 ltr. 4 cyl.) would have beat it no questions asked. I don't have the eclipse any more. I'm from that generation, I'm 20, but I know who I can take and who I can't. Oh, dan. I wanted the WS6 ram air firebird. I found a nice blue on black one with a 6 speed. But my wife hated it, so we got the mustang. Oh well, I'm still very happy with the car.

[stereomandan]

Comparing 1960's vehicle to a year 2002 vehicle is hardly fair. Talk about stacking the deck against the Mustang! Brakes were terrible back then. Cars were not set up with any kind of handling really.

Take a current 2002 Mustang GT or Mach 1, or a 2002 Camaro Z28 and we'll see how that civic compares. You have to look at muscle cars of today if you are going to campare vehicle like that.

Everyone knows that the older muscle cars can go fairly quick in a straight line, but are dangerous around a road coarse or if asked to brake quickly.

I'd love to take on a civic on a road coarse in my '97 Z28 with modified suspension.

Oh yeah, an LS1 WS6. Talk about acceleration with decent handling. Those are some MEAN cars stock. The GT is very nice too though.

Dan

[jobryan26]

Just what are you calling modified? A stock 67 Camaro SS with a K&N filter vs a Civic VTEC twin turbo, 250shot of NOS, and another $30,000 of modifications. Hardly comparable.

I could put a jet engine from an F-17 on a Lawn Mower and say my lawn mower is faster than your Civic. It all comes down to how much you spend, and the amount of knowledge invested into anything. I would agree to say that imports have come a long way but so has cell phones.:D

Me I'll take a new C-6, that car is so sweet! I do miss the retractable headlights tho. Can't wait to see some numbers.

[stereomandan]

jobryan26,

Are you replying to me? My mods are Bilstein shocks, sub frame connectors, and front sway bar. That's all. $590 total. Handles very, very well. Soon I will have stock SS rims which will bump up my tire with to a 275/40-17. I can't wait for that. That's another $400 so total about $1000 into my suspension total. The shocks replaced the worn out stock ones, so really it's $700 in mods.

You're right though. Anyone can sink a ton of money into a car and make it fast and handle great.

I think comparisons should be fair however.

Dan

[bmcelhinn]

Comparing 1960's vehicle to a year 2002 vehicle is hardly fair. Talk about stacking the deck against the Mustang! Brakes were terrible back then. Cars were not set up with any kind of handling really.

I didn't make the comparison. Car and driver did because they are comparing the cars kids fixed up then with the ones they do now. I merely referred to the comparison. Because of this.THINKING that a stock civic EX would tear alot of muscle cars a new one. This is the stuff that ****es me off. Now if you can show up in a SWEET import that can actually go, and isn't all show then come and talk to me. Until then, I'll keep my V8, and you'll keep saying that you can take me in the corners, and that you get more HP per liter. TELL IT TO MY TAILLIGHTS YOU BLEACH HAIRED *****ES.

Just what are you calling modified? A stock 67 Camaro SS with a K&N filter vs a Civic VTEC twin turbo, 250shot of NOS, and another $30,000 of modifications. Hardly comparable.

And for someone so sure that they know who would win, they sure don't know anything they are talking about. There are no twin turbo civics, not even modified. And you obviously didn't pay attention to the post. A magazine put new sport compacts, like civic si, ford focus zx3, nissan sentra se-R against cars like a 1969 mach 1, a dodge charger, a camaro. The cars were all stock for stock. They tested braking, handling, 0-60 and 1/4 mile. And arguing that it isn't a fair test because those cars have old technology is exactly my point.

[bmcelhinn]

and there are no F-17 jets either.

[ziggaboo]

and yes there are twin turbo civics, i have a friend who owns one, and it runs mid to low 10s.

[jobryan26]

Originally posted by bmcelhinn
and there are no F-17 jets either.

See I know about as much about jets as some people do about cars. Absolutely nothing.:)


There is a YF-17 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-17.htm) does that count? :D

[jobryan26]

Originally posted by stereomandan
jobryan26,

Are you replying to me? My mods are Bilstein shocks, sub frame connectors, and front sway bar. That's all. $590 total. Handles very, very well. Soon I will have stock SS rims which will bump up my tire with to a 275/40-17. I can't wait for that. That's another $400 so total about $1000 into my suspension total. The shocks replaced the worn out stock ones, so really it's $700 in mods.

You're right though. Anyone can sink a ton of money into a car and make it fast and handle great.

I think comparisons should be fair however.

Dan

No, I was generally speaking.:) The word "Modification" is getting thrown around without any description as to what modifications one may be referring to. Some consider adding a K&N sticker as a mod while some of us consider a mod to be something that would improve the performance or improve the looks of a car.


Then again some actually think adding a K&N sticker will improve performance.:D

[VaderWS6]

Originally posted by stereomandan
Oh yeah, an LS1 WS6. Talk about acceleration with decent handling. Those are some MEAN cars stock.


:spin1: :thumbsup: :spin1:

[ShadowViper]

I have a 30 yr old Olds 455 eng with 300K+ miles on it. I want to see a Honda do that after all the mods done on it. And most likely it still wont have the power of my eng.

[cutelilfishes]

I amost bought a 65 Convertible Buick Skylark I think it had a 455 as well but I found a 65 GTO so I got the goat, but there was a 67 442 I would have liked but it was hugely expensive. What I wouldn't give to have any of those in my garage these days (not that I really have a garage).

Doug

[bmcelhinn]

Japanese automakers are actually putting V8 performance cars on the market. Toyota had the Lexus LX400 coupe with a 4.5 ltr. V8 10 years ago, but that was only 250-265 HP. The new Supra which was supposed to be out for 04 is supposedly packing a 400 HP V8. And Nissan is supposed to launch a car with the skyline name badge with the 340 horsepower V8 from the new Titan truck.