Return of the King [Archive] - Reef Central Online Community Archives

dendronepthya

12/18/2003, 01:21 PM

I don't there were many glaring changes in the third movie, but there were differences. The most obvious change was the way in which the army of the dead was used, but I didn't have a problem with it. For how much buildup they had in the book, they had a very small role. In the movie, they were more important.

Also a minor spolier, Sam never puts on the ring in the movie which I think is a very good change from the book. That part never made any sense to me since I figured someone putting on the Ring in Mordor would be detected immediately.

Overall, I think ROTK was probably the best movie I have ever seen. Usually after seeing the theatrical release of a LOTR film, I am eagerly awaiting the extended edition to flesh out more scenes that I felt looked rushed or truncated, but I have no such complaint with ROTK.

BigBird

12/18/2003, 01:26 PM

Any glaring changes in the 3rd?

Yes. Big-uns!

Saw it last night & liked it alot. I was actually a bit surprised to see how close PJ stuck to the original story line. I was expecting to see Sauron as a character.

Unfortunately, there's absolutely no way to make LOTR into a movie that would satisfy the most ardent fans and still make attract newbies. PJ did a spectacular job of reaching a compromise between a film that communicates the major themes of the book while entertaining the "I've got a 3 second span of attention" types (whose money spends just as easily as the most ardent LOTR fan's).

Personally, I'm stoked to see all the excitement and discussion for the LOTR series!! Whatever your view of the films, the present noteriety is bound to create a healthy new generation of LOTR readers, and that simply can't be bad.

Big fat BZ to Peter Jackson:D :D :D

Kengar

12/18/2003, 01:27 PM

I never read the books and didn't "get" the first movie, so I didn't bother with the second and won't with the third. Just not into sci-fi or fantasy.

That having been said, we got a brand spanking new Lord of the Rings pinball machine here at the office

http://www.btinternet.com/~pinballnews/games/lotr/index5.html

I am the ultimate king on this machine, having way outdistanced the next nearest lawyer in the office in terms of high scores. Boo-yah! Veritable Tommy.

Cearbhaill

12/18/2003, 03:52 PM

IMO they needed to wrap the Sarumon bit up better than one cryptic reference from Gandalf "he has no more power".
I understand that PJ had to cut things he swore he would never cut but the absence of Sarumon bugged me.

Loved the Fell- beasts, and really loved Grond the battering beast.
I wish these movies could go on forever!

Obi-dad

12/18/2003, 04:21 PM

Great movie, I can't believe how many things look like I imagined them to be when I read the books many years ago.

dendronepthya

12/18/2003, 06:19 PM

There are certain images in the movie that surpassed my imagination. For example, the white city. It looked like the multi-walled city in my imagination, but that huge triangular part that jutted out was a really nice touch. I didn't know what purpose it served when watching the trailers, but once I saw what was right up at the top with that garden area with the remnants of the white tree, I was impressed.

Grond was absolutely awesome too. You know a battering ram is cool if it has a name!

BigBird

12/19/2003, 09:16 AM

I'm surprised nobody's gushed about the Shelob scene!!

That was one creepy spider :eek: :eek: :eek:

I kinda thought that the design for Minas Morgul looked a bit cheesy -- sort of like the emerald city from Oz. Well, until the big scary witch king guy pops up.

Triterium

12/19/2003, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by Triterium
I'll see it when it comes out on video......(Maybe)

Well, I got some free tickets from my work, so I decided to give it a try. I really didn't like the first two, but this one was surprisingly good. The major battle scene was amazing and the computer animation was incredible!

this is me

12/19/2003, 05:22 PM

ABSOLUTELY AMAZING!!!!!!
I love it!

ClarkiiClownfish

12/19/2003, 05:26 PM

Saw it Wednesday. I hate to use this word to describe it, because it is tacky and so over-used.....but there is no other word to say about it other than AWESOME!

Best Picture FOR SURE!

Great movie, I can't believe how many things look like I imagined them to be when I read the books many years ago.

Same here. It is amazing how good of a job they did in keeping with the storyline of the books.

I wish these movies could go on forever!

ME TOO! The LOTR Trilogy was the single biggest undertaking in the history of cinematography and I think they did a most excellent job. 7 years from concept to completion and 2 full years of filming 6-7 days a week for 12+ hours a day. Amazing.

Maybe if we make so much noise about how good it is, Peter Jackson will make a pre-quel called, "The Hobbit". :)

How cool would it be to see Smaug on the big screen? :)

Macbeth417

12/19/2003, 05:54 PM

Saw it at 12am first showing. I am a big fan of the books so I was excited to see how they would finish it off. GREAT MOVIE, just GREAT. Only thing was that they didn't show them having to take back the Shire. Oh, well great stuff, a must see.

-Erik

beester15

12/19/2003, 06:09 PM

I loved every minute of it and am sad that it is now over

Wolverine

12/20/2003, 10:31 PM

Originally posted by BigBird
Unfortunately, there's absolutely no way to make LOTR into a movie that would satisfy the most ardent fans and still make attract newbies.

I don't know. I'd consider myself among the most ardent fans, and I was ver satisfied with these movies. For example, the first one didn't have Tom, but come on, he didn't make that much sense in the story as it is, and it REALLY wouldn't translate well to the movie.
And I know some people are upset about the scouring being left out of the end, but at the end of the movie, especially with it being so long, I think that would have just been awkward and tedious.

I thought it was a great movie.

Originally posted by DendronepthyaThere are certain images in the movie that surpassed my imagination. For example, the white city. It looked like the multi-walled city in my imagination,

I always had that same image of the multi-walled city. It's probably in a Lee or Howe picture somewhere.

Peter Jackson has said over and over that he has no interest in making "The Hobbit".

Dave

DJ88©

12/20/2003, 10:53 PM

I have to say that I thougholy enjoyed Return. Due to other stuff going on I couldn't see it till last night.

Was on the edge of my seat all night.

Loved Minas. Amazing.. But that was me. In that darkness to have the green glow.. The Witch king st it off right.

And Minas Tirith was outstanding in my eyes.
The parapet served it's purpose when Boromir's father took his flaming header.

The scenes with Shelob were amazing. I jumped and cringed. The detail that would come out of the darkness on here was.. :eek1: I am not bothered by spiders but I was last night.

The Oliphants were amazing. Eowyn and Merry's fight with the Witch king was... wow.. Morning star.. Tho the book had Merry take him down. Was it his stab that killed or hers? I know in the book Merry had a sword given to him by Tom Bombadil.

I was hoping to see the final scenes with the Shire as written.

Who knows about the stuff we didn't see. It may be in the extended stuff next year when the DVD is released. I have my fingers crossed.

Wolverine

12/20/2003, 11:18 PM

Originally posted by DJ88
Was it his stab that killed or hers? I know in the book Merry had a sword given to him by Tom Bombadil.

It was hers. He could be killed by no man (presumably no male).

Who knows about the stuff we didn't see. It may be in the extended stuff next year when the DVD is released. I have my fingers crossed.

Saruman and Wormtongue are in the extended edition. I think there some stuff with Faramir and Eowyn in the halls of healing. If you look around on the internet, there are several scenes that Jackson has said will be in the DVD. I think I've read about 4 or 5 scenes that will be added.

Dave

DJ88©

12/20/2003, 11:28 PM

Ahh I haven't been reading to find that stuff out. I have kept away from all spoliers trailers etc for all three movies. Even when teh extended DVD's were released.

As for the " Can be killed by no man". I'd say a hobbit has more validity with that comment than Eowyn. Hence me asking. Who was the killing blow? ;)

beefcake

12/20/2003, 11:35 PM

This is by far the best trilogy ever made. I went in to the movie with very high expectations and the movie far surpased anything I could have hoped for! The special effects were the best I've ever seen in a movie, the story and acting were brilliant. I have to say that Return of the king is probably the best movie I've ever seen. Now it's time for me to read all of the books since I never did before. :-o

rallendorph

12/20/2003, 11:54 PM

Pretty sure that the fight between Eowyn, Merry, and the Witch King was right out of the book. He broke her arm, Merry stabbed him in leg, and she killed him.

At the end of the movie, I was sad that the tale was over and there would be no more wonders. I also missed the Hobbits reclaiming the Shire, but figure that will be in the extended edition DVDs.

The movie left me fulfilled. Rare event these days.

Rob A. :beer:

cwbroden

12/21/2003, 01:42 AM

I'm am filled with all kinds of emotions. Movie was excellent. A lot of things missing that I was hoping would be included. (Of course I knew they would be as I have been following production and spoilers from the various sites.)

I'm just sad it's over. I had been following the project since PJ started it many many years about. Waiting on Fellowship seemed to take forever. Then I could not wait for Towers. And now I've seen King. Kind of sad there is nothing more to see.

Of course I can always get excited waiting for the extended edition to be released next November.

lebowski

12/21/2003, 02:30 PM

I'm going to see it today!!!!:D

Wolverine

12/21/2003, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by rallendorph
Pretty sure that the fight between Eowyn, Merry, and the Witch King was right out of the book. He broke her arm, Merry stabbed him in leg, and she killed him.

Exactly

Originally posted by rallendorph
At the end of the movie, I was sad that the tale was over and there would be no more wonders. I also missed the Hobbits reclaiming the Shire, but figure that will be in the extended edition DVDs.

Unlikely for two reasons. One is that the hobbits ride into a nice, healthy looking Shire. The second (and bigger reason) is that Peter Jackson HATES that scene in the books. He said many times that he has never had any intention of doing it. Maybe he'll end up doing something to appease some fans who are raising a stink, but I wouldn't expect to see it. For a movie style, I think it just doesn't flow, and it would make the real ending anticlimactic.

cwbroden, I know what you mean about being sad it's over. There really aren't many movies that I truly look forward to. There are none on the horizon now that I expect to be any good.

Dave

ClarkiiClownfish

12/21/2003, 06:21 PM

Peter Jackson has said over and over that he has no interest in making "The Hobbit".

I have heard rumors that with the HUGE success the trilogy has recieved, he is considering it. But those are only rumors. But I sure hope he does it some day.
"The Hobbit" is an excellent book and a great adventure in its own rite. I for one am hoping and praying that PJ does do it some day....even if it is 5 or 10 years from now.
If PJ dont want to do it, then I hope the studio that owns the rights to the movie would find another director that is willing to pour his heart and sould into it as PJ did with the trilogy.

I am very sad to see it end for now, but I am holding out hope that PJ, or someone will do "The Hobbit."

My wife absolutely loves these movies now also. She had never read the books, and when I found out years ago that they are making the movies, I was so excited. My wife told me she didnt think she would like it. When the first trailers for "Fellowship" started coming out, she told me , "it looks corney..."
I had to drag her to see it. She loved it, and is now a rabid fan just like me. She has since read the books and "The Hobbit."
Both of us think Tolkein is a genius and no one could have done the movies any better than PJ.
Sad to see it end....if it is the end. I hope we still have one more movie in the future for all of us Tolkein fans.

Obi-dad

12/21/2003, 07:37 PM

While I am sad this trilogy is over, there is one movie to look forward to for a lot of people - Star Wars Episode 3. :D

jocole37

12/21/2003, 07:54 PM

greatest movie ever to complete the greatest trilogy ever...period.

ClarkiiClownfish

12/21/2003, 11:42 PM

greatest movie ever to complete the greatest trilogy ever...period.

Exactly!

While I am sad this trilogy is over, there is one movie to look forward to for a lot of people - Star Wars Episode 3.

I am a HUGE Staw Wars fan. Grew up on it. That trilogy has had major a impact on an entire generation. When Lucas went back and started the pre-quels....I was excited and could not wait. When Episode 1 came out, I was disappointed. When Episode 2 came out, I was extremely disappointed. Dont seem like his heart is in it this time. I think now, its all about the money.

I sure hope he learns his lessons from 1 and 2 and does a good job on 3.

With that said, I dont think he can do a good enough job to top what PJ has done with LOTR.
LOTR is hands down the greatest trilogy and feat of cinematography in history. And I think it is going to stand for quite some time.

Myladyfish

12/22/2003, 01:50 AM

watch Return of the King? No and yes... No, I haven't watched the movie and yes I have seen LeBron James play, the new King since MJ retired :) :D

Runner

12/22/2003, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by DJ88
As for the " Can be killed by no man". I'd say a hobbit has more validity with that comment than Eowyn. Hence me asking. Who was the killing blow? ;) In the book, it was both, actually. The hobbit's Sword (Dagger) of the Westernese unravelled the witch-kings spells and allowed Eowyn's sword to do damage. The movie overlooked the back-story on the acquiring of that dagger in the downs and thus didn't go into more detail at this point.

NTidd

12/22/2003, 09:49 AM

musicsmaker

12/22/2003, 10:08 AM

I just watched it last night, and I want to watch it again already. I have to say that I would not have much problem taking an entire day and watching the three back to back.

At the end, I either didn't understand or didn't hear what was said. When Frodo goes to get on the ship, he says something about not being able to go back to The Shire. What was the reason for him having to get on that ship?

NTidd

12/22/2003, 10:09 AM

I think because he couldn't get back to his old life mentally.

Runner

12/22/2003, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by Wolverine
Unlikely for two reasons. One is that the hobbits ride into a nice, healthy looking Shire. The second (and bigger reason) is that Peter Jackson HATES that scene in the books. He said many times that he has never had any intention of doing it. Maybe he'll end up doing something to appease some fans who are raising a stink, but I wouldn't expect to see it. For a movie style, I think it just doesn't flow, and it would make the real ending anticlimactic.
The scene was never filmed and it is too late to do it now. Sad, because it is my favorite part of the entire book. The hobbits left fearful and running, but come back "grown up" and save their homeland. And the hobbits in their simple way honor that battle more than all the others that occured in far-off lands.

I liked the first movie much better. It was much truer to the books and flowed really well. Rivendale. Moria. The Shire. The Balrog. Good stuff. I like the Return of the King much better than the second movie, though, because it becomes less of an action movie and more focused on the story line.

Things that are really great about the RotK:

1. Theodon was handled well and is, in my opinion, the best character in the entire series. His end was true to the book and done incredibly well in the theatre. He was a good character in the books, but even better in the movie. And the charge of the Rohirrim to Gondor's aid was awesome. Tactically dumb on the followup charge against the oliphants, but awesome still.

2. Eowyn. Handled well. I hope they add more about her and Faramir in the extended DVD.

3. Legolas. Excellent in all movies.

4. Grond. Perfect.

5. Time spent rounding out the hobbits tale at the end of the movie. Right down to the "I'm home" line.

6. Power of the Nazghul in battle.

7. Lighting of the watchtowers.

8. Final battle between Frodo/Sam/Gollum.

Things I did not like:

1. Faramir was one of the best characters in the book. They made him look like a wimp in RotK.

2. Denethor was a petty, insane man in the movie. He would have been more powerful as a great, tragic man grief-stricken by the loss of his son.

3. Arwen. Bleh. Same for the wimpy way Elrond was handled -- along with the Sword of Kings.

4. Undead army saving Gondor. Renders the sacrifices of all the others pointless if the dead can do it all themselves. I understand the expediency which led to this, but it was too neat of a wrap-up and left me wanting more.

5. The seige of Gondor was rushed. It wasn't as powerful as Helm's deep, which was supposedly an attack of 1/10 the size of the one on Gondor.

6. Tactical screwups before the Black gate. A big circle? Pull-eaze. At least make a defensive square. Or seven on the hill-tops as they did in the book.

JB NY

12/22/2003, 10:46 AM

I saw it over the weekend. Thought is was absolutely amazing. I've read the books many times and thought Jackson did an incredible job. I felt it a good thing the shire part was left out. The Tolkien read is great, but there are many parts that would just come off really hooky if they left it in the movie. Tom Bobabdil, I loved it in the book, but I would probably cringe if it was in the movie. The books have lots of singing as well, something that with rare exception (pippin's song as the war starts) just would not work well in the movies. I had a hard enough time explaining to friends that Frodo and Sam were not gay, they were true to their being and pure of heart.

Also I think the liberties Jackson took in TTT were good ones. I was bothered with the extended footage with Faramir too. But after see the EE DVD and the clips with Jackson and his crew discussing why he put that it. It makes sense and helps keep the movie believable (as much as a fantasy can be).

The White City was very cool. I had a real hard time imagining the whole city the way tolkine described it. I thought it was great to see it on the big screen. But the huge battle scenes filmed from those overhead sweep was truly amazing.

BigBird

12/22/2003, 11:35 AM

At the end, I either didn't understand or didn't hear what was said. When Frodo goes to get on the ship, he says something about not being able to go back to The Shire. What was the reason for him having to get on that ship?

Frodo can never return because the ship is bound for Valinor, the home of the Valar, or the fourteen powerful spirits who assisted in the creation of "Arda," which is no longer part of the world. He is given the honor of going to Valinor because he was a ringbearer -- typically, only elves are permitted to set foot on Valinor.

Valinor used to be part of the world until the Numeanorians, after being deceived by Sauron, led an attack against Valinor. Numeanor sank into the ocean (along with Sauron, who survived) and a few survivors (namely Isuldur) escaped to Middle Earth to found the kingdoms of Gondor and Andor. This event is referred to in the movie as the "breaking of the world" during Elron's counseling of Arwen (Aragorn will be a "portrait of the glory of Numeanor undimmed before the breaking of the world")

Numeanor is an island kingdom of men, granted to humans either by Manwe (Lord of the Valar) or Illuvatar (the Grande Fromage), I can't remember which, as a sort of garden of Eden. It was a kingdom whose majesty knew no equivalent on Middle Earth. As a condition of "ownership," humans were instructed to never sail west to Valinor. When, falling victim to the lies of Sauron, they eventually sailed to Valinor, Numeanor was destroyed and sank into the sea, Arda became round, and Valinor was seperated from the rest of the world, only accessible to the Elves.

Any more questions about Tolkenien mythology, read the Silmarillion or look here (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm).

IMO, what sets Tolkein apart from other fantasy is the rich history upon which the story depends. Tolkien spent his entire life inventing this world, rather than merely writing a few books. In that respect, his work is unparalleled.

BigBird

12/22/2003, 12:00 PM

Oops, actually its spelled "Numenor."

My bad.

jwm2k3

12/22/2003, 12:50 PM

Gotta add my comments....:)

Check my avatar :)

I really liked the part where Gollum finally got the ring back, started to fall into the fire and was obvlivious, smiling, clutching the ring, falling to his death....Had he known he was about to die, it would have been sketchy....

The scene on top of Minas Tirith at the end, during the ceremony of Aragorn was great. Everyone bowed to the hobbits..nice!

I also really like the scene where Legolas climbed up onto the Oilphant, killed all its riders, shot it in the head, brought it down killing it, then sliding down the fallen Oliphants trunk, landing right in front of Gimli, who says..."That only counts as ONE!" Great line. Cant wait to see it again. Im gonna but the DVD, then buy the extended DVD, just like I did for the other two...

NTidd

12/22/2003, 12:52 PM

Ahem, "That still only counts as one!"

Wolverine

12/22/2003, 08:26 PM

Originally posted by Obi-dad
While I am sad this trilogy is over, there is one movie to look forward to for a lot of people - Star Wars Episode 3. :D

I was looking forward to that movie until Episode 1 came out. Then I was ambivalent to it. Then Episode 2 came out, and I'll have a hard time justifying going to Episode 3.

Bigbird, I think their question centered more on why Frodo felt that he had to leave the Shire, not why he couldn't come back once he had left.
Basically, as someone said, he couldn't get back to his old life in the Shire mentally. The Ring drastically changes someone. It's hard enough for the other hobbits to settle back down into their life, but just too hard for him to do. The other issue is that he has earned the right to go to Valinor by his service, as did Bilbo. You don't pass up that chance.

Runner, As for the Witch King, it's still Eowyn's blade that killed him, even if Merry's attack gave her the opening (though that's really just getting into arguing petty semantics :D ).
As for the Scouring, I liked it fine in the book, but I agree with PJ that it wouldn't have worked as well in the movie, and it's one liberty I'm glad he took. Actually, as I think back on the movies, I feel that most of the changes he made were very good cinema decisions, even if it meant not following the exact direction of the story.

Oh, and about Faramir and Eowyn, I've read that they do have some extra scenes of them in the HoH (I think I mentioned that before).

Clarkii, even after the movies were done, PJ has still be consistently saying that he doesn't plan on doing it. I've even read somewhere that they don't even have the rights to do it (not sure if that's true or not); and that Chris Tolkien doesn't plan on giving up those rights to anyone.

Dave

Obi-dad

12/22/2003, 09:09 PM

Ouch. Why are you guys so hard on SW episode 1, 2, and 3? There are critical flaws in both, but I (and son and friends) enjoyed both. Way better entertainment than a lot of other flicks during the same time frame.

ClarkiiClownfish

12/22/2003, 09:32 PM

Here's an idea, let's make an army of eagles and then just fly frodo down to the lava and let him drop the ring in (maybe drop frodo in too), after all, gandolf can just turn his light on his staff and it makes the dragons go away. THey could of made the whole movie an hour long.

NTidd..........if you dont care for the movies or the books, then why waste everyones time by posting your banter in this thread?
Think about it.

Clarkii, even after the movies were done, PJ has still be consistently saying that he doesn't plan on doing it. I've even read somewhere that they don't even have the rights to do it (not sure if that's true or not); and that Chris Tolkien doesn't plan on giving up those rights to anyone.

I have heard rumors that "The Hobbit" will be made eventually. It may be 5 or 10 years, but I am pretty sure that eventually it will be made.
Money rules the world Wolverine. "The Hobbit", if done properly, will make TONS of it. Its just a matter of time.........someone or some studio will come along and want that money. Its the way of the world. It will happen.

beefcake

12/22/2003, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by ClarkiiClownfish

I sure hope he (George Lucas) learns his lessons from 1 and 2 and does a good job on 3.

Let's hope Mr. Lucas went to see Return Of The King, maybe he'll learn something.

ClarkiiClownfish

12/22/2003, 09:37 PM

Let's hope Mr. Lucas went to see Return Of The King, maybe he'll learn something.

LMAO.....yes, lets hope so.

ClarkiiClownfish

12/22/2003, 10:01 PM

OMG.......DID ANYONE SEE ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT THIS EVENING???????

WOOOO-HOOOOOO

Whats next for Peter Jackson? We have exclusive information that negotiations are in the works with New Line Cinema to make Tolkein's first book, "The Hobbit" into a feature film

I tell ya what people. I post about it, and not 10 minutes later it comes true.
Did anyone else see it? I saw and heard it with my own eyes and ears!!!!! SWEEEEEET!!

Smaug on the BIGSCREEN is coming!
All those that said PJ is so adament about not making "The Hobbit" are wrong according to this information that was broadcast on network television this very evening!!!
This is no BS......if anyone taped it or has it on Tivo or saw it as I did....please confirm.

AWESOME!

Runner

12/22/2003, 10:43 PM

Originally posted by Wolverine
Runner, As for the Witch King, it's still Eowyn's blade that killed him, even if Merry's attack gave her the opening (though that's really just getting into arguing petty semantics :D ). Very petty, when you consider that Merry's blade was the only one that could have struck the first blow. ;) Tolkein went out of his way in the middle of the battle story to mention how the forger of that dagger would have been proud to know of its final fate.

It only counts as one kill, anyway -- and that split between two people. :D

P.S. And Eowyn gets credit for 3/4 of that kill if you count the rider and mount as one kill, total.

ClarkiiClownfish

12/22/2003, 11:49 PM

P.S. And Eowyn gets credit for 3/4 of that kill if you count the rider and mount as one kill, total.

Now whose petty....LOL :D

BigBird

12/23/2003, 09:25 AM

I would've liked to see the Houses of Healing scene to illustrate how nasty the Witch King was.

Just making contact with him nearly killed Eowyn and Pippin -- makes the whole thing a bit more dramatic IMO.

However, the fell beast attacks during Faramir's retreat from Osgiliath were COOOL!!! Big ol' BZ to PJ!

12/23/2003, 09:33 AM

LOL, it's only a movie, repeat after me, it's only a movie, again....

Granted a great movie.;)

musicsmaker

12/23/2003, 09:34 AM

It's not just a movie. It's true I tell you!

12/23/2003, 09:43 AM

:lol: Any shrinks in the house??

Runner

12/23/2003, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by BigBird
I would've liked to see the Houses of Healing scene to illustrate how nasty the Witch King was.

Just making contact with him nearly killed Eowyn and Pippin -- makes the whole thing a bit more dramatic IMO. I hear it is in the extended DVD. That, along with more on Faramir and Eowyn falling in love as they heal together.

Heck, with the movie being 3 hours and 21 minutes, I can imagine how long an extended DVD will be. If they add another 40 minutes like they did for the Two Towers, we are talking over four hours. It would take a week to watch the whole extended trilogy (provided you are a normal human and do other things during the course of a day).

12/23/2003, 10:03 AM

LOL, they are long. They told us to come an hour early, and the line was still half way through the theater. I obviously didn't see this in Wyoming!!!! :D

Wolverine

12/23/2003, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by ClarkiiClownfish
Smaug on the BIGSCREEN is coming!

We'll see. I'm still skeptical, as I've seen ET be wrong plenty before.

Either way, it won't be "next", as they said, since he's currently doing a remake of King Kong.

Dave

ClarkiiClownfish

12/23/2003, 03:06 PM

We'll see. I'm still skeptical, as I've seen ET be wrong plenty before.

Yes, I have seen them post gossip before as well when there is no solid proof. But, New Line Cinema is interested in making the movie. If PJ dont want to do it, would New Line still want to make it with someone else? I dont know. Another question is the rights. Chris Tolkein has them I beileve. It has been rumored that he will never give them up. But I think that is a bunch of hogwash as ANYONE can be bought for the right price......ANYONE.
Money runs the world we live in today, and Hollywood has an unlimited supply of it.
I have a firm belief that it will be made some day in the not too distant future, with or without PJ. Look at all the money LOTR made. And there is more to be had if "The Hobbit" is made. I am 99% sure someday, some studio will take a chance on it. They always do.
The simple fact that it is being spoken of (even if it is on a gossip show like ET) is a good thing I think, for people that want to see the book made into a movie. If done properly, I dont think it will take anything away from the LOTR trilogy, as what happened with the Star Wars pre-quels in my opinion.

ClarkiiClownfish

12/23/2003, 03:24 PM

I think the Hobbit has very good potential as a single installment film. The only thing missing from the story is a love interest. That may cause New Line to balk. However, there was talk of having Arwen appear in the Hobbit if Jackson takes the reins.

This was quoted from another site affiliated with New Line. Apparently, there has already been discussions on the making of "The Hobbit" between PJ and New Line. Yet this is still no solid proof as this is not a direct quote from PJ or anyone of any importance at New Line. I am still researching extensively and hope to find some solid proof that negotiations and/or discussions have indeed taken place on the making of the film, other than the short blurb I saw on ET last night.

dellrio

12/24/2003, 10:55 PM

i have a qustion... what is middle earth?? like.. in relevance to what? lower earth.. high earth?

also.. why did the Elves leave? why was there time over? where were they going and why?
also.. why did Frodo and his Hobbit uncle have to leave too>?
and why didn't anyone in the Shire know about the war going on?

also.. the dead marsh... what was that all about? i dont remember hearing how it got there.

beefcake

12/25/2003, 12:26 AM

I wonder if we will see any more of Boramire in the extended verison as we did in the extended version of towers. I really liked Boramire's character and was thrilled to see the relationship between he, Faramir and his father in the extended version. I have not read the books YET and wondered if there might be more flasbacks in Return of the King or not.

p.s. - best movie ever, best trilogy ever.

beefcake

12/25/2003, 12:31 AM

Originally posted by dellrio

also.. why did Frodo and his Hobbit uncle have to leave too>?

I never read the books but I assumed that Bilbo was getting very old so he would sail to the undying lands with the elves to live instead of dying in Rivendale. Frodo just went along to stay with his uncle. I could be wrong but thats what I got out of it.

beefcake

12/25/2003, 12:38 AM

I do have one question myself. In the "fellowship of the ring" the lady of the wood told Lord Elron that the quest would claim frodo's life but he never died. I was totally expecting Frodo to die at the end but never did. What gives ?

jwm2k3

12/25/2003, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by dellrio
i have a qustion... what is middle earth?? like.. in relevance to what? lower earth.. high earth?

also.. why did the Elves leave? why was there time over? where were they going and why?
also.. why did Frodo and his Hobbit uncle have to leave too>?
and why didn't anyone in the Shire know about the war going on?

also.. the dead marsh... what was that all about? i dont remember hearing how it got there.

Middle earth is where they all are. There used to be more land, but it was taken away when the Numenorians went against the law of the gods.

Frodo and Bilbo had to leave beacuse they were ring bearers. When the elves leave Middle Earth their power also leaves. This means the former ring bearers are unprotected and need to be in Valinor with the elves.

In the books the shire is overrun with orcs and has to be taken back by the hobbits at the end. No so in the movie.

Dead marsh is where there was a great war long ago where many orcs men and elves died. Their spirits are doomed to stay in that place for some reason or another, I forget.

Hope this clears it up a bit...

jwm2k3

12/25/2003, 08:42 AM

Originally posted by beefcake
I do have one question myself. In the "fellowship of the ring" the lady of the wood told Lord Elron that the quest would claim frodo's life but he never died. I was totally expecting Frodo to die at the end but never did. What gives ?

The elves have power of foresight. Galadriel (Lady of Light, in the woods) told Elrond what she had seen, if they did not succeed. Just like when Frodo looked into the pool of water she poured and he saw The Shire being destroyed and all the Hobbits being killed.......

dendronepthya

12/25/2003, 07:56 PM

The ringbearers (Frodo, Bilbo, and eventually Sam) leave middle earth for Valinor for a couple of reasons. The major reason is the ring forever scars them. Both Frodo and Bilbo still feel the emptiniess left by the ring, and can never live a normal life again. Passage to Valinor is also a reward for their heroism.

Frodo doesn't really "die" at the end, but going to Valinor isn't exactly "living." It's more like existing in Nirvana.

Maury

12/25/2003, 08:28 PM

Nor is the Shire overrun with orcs at the End of ROTK, it was overrun with MEN under the control of Saruman.

Anyway, huge Tolkien fan, and loved the movie, seen it three times already.

Saw some questions about the 'spar' of the mountain sticking out of Minas Tirith. Read the description of the city again in Return of the King, it looks exactly as it is described. I have a feeling John Howe, and Alan Lee got a copy of Karen Wynn Fonstad's Atlas of Middle Earth when they were doing the conceptual drawings of the city!

Oh, and yes, Jackson DOES want to do The Hobbit, after Kong, if the rights can be acquired, but the problem is Tolkien's youngest son, Christopher, who LOATHES these films, and is refusing to negotiate the film right (which he doesn't own, but does have a say in who films it) Of course, it doesn't help that the Tolkien estate has made a fortune off the sales in the books over the past three years due to these films, so money isn't likely to loosen their fingers, like the did with J.R.R.'s back in the 60's.

As far as the extended Edition goes, Jackson said 'It's going to be longer than 5 hours' With the Voice of Saruman, Houses of the Healing, Aragorn wresting control of the Palantir from Saruman, Mouth of Sauron, and numerous other scenes all put back in.

Can't wait!

Maury

12/25/2003, 08:31 PM

Oh, and Dendro, Frodo and Bilbo DO eventually die in Valinor. It is not withing the power of the Valar to remove the mortality from the hobbits. They were healed of their hurts, and then were givin a time to live in bliss. Tolkien explains this in his letters. A great book, which is a collection of his letters to various people, like his publisher and children, where he takes on questions about the nature of the world he created.

Answers many questions about who WAS Glorfindel! ;)

Sorry to say, he purposely keeps Bombadil an enigma! ;)

ClarkiiClownfish

12/25/2003, 11:38 PM

Oh, and yes, Jackson DOES want to do The Hobbit, after Kong, if the rights can be acquired, but the problem is Tolkien's youngest son, Christopher, who LOATHES these films

I have read at numerous places that PJ does want to make "The Hobbit" and that Warner Brothers has the rights to the film.
I think it will be made eventually. Cant wait.

ClarkiiClownfish

12/26/2003, 12:39 AM

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=entertainmentNews&storyID=417967&section=news%20+++++

Here is a link I found dated Dec 3, 2003 that quotes Jackson stating that he does indeed want to do "The Hobbit".

dendronepthya

12/26/2003, 12:12 PM

So who is Glorfindel really?

MarkS

12/27/2003, 03:46 PM

Well, I just got back from seeing it for the second time. I have never read the books, but I can say that these three movies should not be classified as "movies". They are far beyond any Hollywood production.

Sting

12/27/2003, 11:38 PM

Wow...I am certainly glad there is a thread about this movie- because I have to come out of the closet...I am obsessed! I ahve read the books an uncountable number of times and absolutely LOVE the movies...oh, and they aren't "just movies" either.

I saw ROTK 3 times on Wednesday the 17th odf December, and have seen it again and again since then! These movies are simply AMAZING- and nothing compares. There are too many replies to this thread to recout every persons user name and reply, but they (someone in the post) was right when they said one of the most incredible things about these movies, and most of all- these books, would be the astounding history Tolkien gave Middle Earth. It truly is unparalelled.

I have followed the movies since day one, but would not go as far as to call me a Purist. Therefore, I have no complaints about any of the movies except a few minor details that I can most definitely overlook.

Did I like the third movie? Let's just say- I definitely, undoubtedly consider it the greatest movie of all time, and it's number one on my list of all-time favorites.

Highlights?

Lighting of the Beacons- jaw-dropping, tingled my spine, this-is-what-lord-of-the-rings-is-all-about kick butt scene! And great music too!

Pippin's song- when Denethor told Faramir he wished he was dead instead of Boromir- and Pippin sang a sad song as Faramir rode to his death, and Denethor sat at the table and feasted, carelessly, I was pretty sad, very emotional stuff (for someone as attached as me).

Minas Tirith, Shelob's Lair, Crack of Doom, and Eowyn/Wiki Confrontation were all directly out of the book. If you were to read the books, and picture in your mind what you were reading, there would be no possible way NOT to imagine exactly what PJ put on screen. It's literally impossible- PERFECT stuff.

Denethor flying of the cliff was a little dramatic, I wished he could have just slowly burned on the pyre instead, but it was nothing to extreme to complain about.

The ending was great- it kind of drags after you've seen it so many times, and I can tell some people in the theater get annoyed, but I wouldn't drop anything for a few lousy impatient people.

Wow...sorry for such a long post- I am a member of www.ringbearer.om (Shelob) and I frequent www.theonering.net, and have since 2000- if anyone visits there- maybe we can talk...someone who loves LOTR and fish tanks? The conversations could go on for HOURS...

Originally posted by dendronepthya
The most obvious change was the way in which the army of the dead was used, but I didn't have a problem with it. For how much buildup they had in the book, they had a very small role. In the movie, they were more important.

I very much disagree- not to be rude, but I don't think this is true at all. The Army of the Dead was exactly what is was in the book, actually I consider a little played down- compared to all it was in the books. And, they did just fine at the Battle of Pelennor Field's and they didn't extend their welcome too long either. They fulfilled their exact purpose: to aid in the victory of good versus evil.

I personally think the biggest change in the movie was Gollum's manipulation of Frodo, and how he told Sam to go home- although, while it was a deviation from the basic structure of the books (since Sam was so loyal he would never leave Frodo's side "Don't leave him Samwise Gamgee, and I don't mean to") I had absoltuely no problem with it, and enjoyed the little glimpse into Gollum's cleverness as well.

Enough said- Good night!

Maury

12/28/2003, 10:27 AM

Glad you liked it, Sting. Oh, and I am the same Maury that helps RUN Ringbearer.org. (You spelled it wrong! ;) )

Oh, and Dendro, the letters get into wether Glorfindel is the same Glorfindel mention in the Silmarillion that killed a balrog as the refugees were fleeing Gondolin. Long story short, it IS the same elf.

Sting

12/28/2003, 11:02 AM

Whoa! Awesome! Haha that is crazy- I had actually seen your avatar on ringbearer.org (spelled it right ahah- see you can't blame me, I have it fixed into my computer so I type "r" into the browser and it automatically takes me to ringbearer!!!) of your two clowns in an anenome I think it was, and wondered if you liked fish, or visited any boards about fish- guess you do! Tiiite!

PaintGuru

12/28/2003, 10:29 PM

Saw it 2 times during this last week. Great movie, actually after the first watching, I thought it was my favorite movie of all time. Watching it a 2nd time, I'm not so sure, it's re-watchability is definitely hard because it is SO DARN LONG! Granted there are no slow parts to the movie, but that ending did drag on a bit. Overall, best movie by far of the 3.

beefcake

12/28/2003, 11:12 PM

Yes, i agree it's the best movie of all time but it should have ended after Aragorn was crowned king of gondor. It woulda been nice to see a bit of the Faromir/Arewen (sp?) relationship. At the end they only showed them standing next to each other. I never read the books but I assumed that they were together just from that small scene. Perhaps we will see more of that in the extended version.

Unome

12/29/2003, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by staticfishmonger
i would recomend the book then i know its long but it blows the movie out of the water.
i cant even remember how many times i have read it and it
gets better every time.. going to see the movie this weekend cant wait to see how the final chapter looks on the big screen and in surround sound.

So true....so true....for those who never read the books, you can't imagine the amount of detail that is in it. And this was written before people had a PC and could write, edit, save, etc. Amazing how much stuff he placed in that book and tied it all together.
If they had stayed 100% to the book, the movies would have been a mini-series about 48 hours total.

Believe me, the final battle scenes will leave you breathless. The battle at Helm's Deep was a volleyball match compared to the battle at Minas Tirith. :eek2:

Alberio

12/31/2003, 11:52 PM

First the Eagles rescue Sam and Frodo
I've got tears streaming down my face.

Then Aragorn is crowned. Me crying again.

Then all the men bow down to the hobbits.
I'm a basket case. I hope no one notices.

Then Aragorn see's Arwen. Tears again. How could Steven Tyler's progeny be so beautiful?

Great movie.

I've changed from a middle aged man to an old woman though.

mjd

Sting

01/01/2004, 01:00 AM

LOL ALberio- glad to hear you had such a...erm....moving experience? Haha! That's awesome though- great movie! Are you a long time fan or just a movie watcher?

Alberio

01/01/2004, 01:08 AM

Sting - I've tried to read the trilogy. I could never get through the intro. So far just the movie. I will be reading the novels now though.

I think watching all 3 movies will allow me to skip the intro!

mjd

BrianD

01/01/2004, 02:09 PM

The last 30 minutes or so were punishingly boring.

Q-ball

01/01/2004, 03:36 PM

I request that my fellow loungers ignore BrianD as he obviously is lacking in taste:D Awesome movie, great job IMO.

Q!!!

JB NY

01/01/2004, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by BrianD
The last 30 minutes or so were punishingly boring.

If you had read the books you would have been happy he only included about 1/4 of the goings on after the ring is tossed.

BrianD

01/01/2004, 04:41 PM

and how did you determine that I had not read the books? (which I have)

I say again: the last 30 minutes or so were punishingly boring in my opinion, and many of those who exited the theater as I did felt the same way.

JB NY

01/01/2004, 04:47 PM

Did you like the last part of the book "Return of the King"?

BrianD

01/01/2004, 08:06 PM

I'm not sure how that would matter. There is quite a difference between a book and a movie.

ClarkiiClownfish

01/01/2004, 08:25 PM

many of those who exited the theater

Oh puhleeease!
It was not THAT bad.
My opinion, if you got up and left, and missed the final 30 minutes, then you missed a lot.
Why would someone sit and watch for 3 hours and 15 minutes, and not be able to stick it out for the final 30? ADD maybe?
What was SOOOOO bad about it?
No, there wasnt any swashbuckling or hoardes of orcs or men on horseback, but man, there is a bit more to the story than just the battle scenes.

There is quite a difference between a book and a movie.
Yes there is quite a difference.
If you were so bored with the final 30 minutes that you just could not take it anymore and walked out, can you imagine how long the movie would have been and how bored you would have been had PJ stayed the course of the book 100%?
If he had done that, the trilogy would have been like 100 hours long!

Aneille

01/01/2004, 08:25 PM

I've read the books a few times and actually like the ending in the books. I felt that last 1/2 hour of the movie though was slow.

I thought that perhaps the reasons I thought it were slow were:

1. because I knew the endings (and in greater detail than what was being shown)

2. The movie was set at a pretty fast pace. And then wham, it went back to a normal non-action movie pace and so it felt even slower.

And even though I throughly enjoyed the movies, and think they were excellent some things bothered me. But I am understanding and realise this is the movie and not the book. It is difficult to do the same types of things you can do in a book, into a movie. The background story for LOTR is incredibly in depth and fleshed out. Reading the Silmarillion(sp) or LOTR is like reading a historical text book at times.

Biggest peeve is Fararmir. He is one of my fav. characters in the book, I was disappointed that his character wasn't truer to the book and his relationship with Aeowyn(sp) wasn't played up. Especially since it is a key item because it unites even further Rohan and Gondor.

BrianD

01/02/2004, 07:53 AM

Clarkiiclown,

Sorry to disturb your rant, but I never said I left the movie early. I was bored with the ending. You weren't. So what? You have your opinion. I have mine. It's only a stupid movie.

Runner

01/02/2004, 09:33 AM

I, too, was bored in the last 30 minutes and wondering when the movie would end. I was miffed when he didn't include the only action in the ending (the Scouring of the Shire) and kept wondering when this action-movie-turned-tear-jerker would end. I liked some of what Jackson did, but I also thought that there was too long a break between the end of the action and the wrapping-up of the movie.

I'll still buy the extended DVD and watch all 5+ hours of it -- but over 2 nights or so.

musicsmaker

01/02/2004, 09:36 AM

I agree that the ending was boring. Frodo was getting ready to get on the boat and they all just stood there and stared at eachother for like 15 minutes waving.

BrianD

01/02/2004, 09:44 AM

Be careful guys, you speak blasphemy of the greatest movie ever :rolleyes:

kept wondering when this action-movie-turned-tear-jerker would end.

Exactly.

I really thought Sam was about to give Frodo a big kiss smack on the lips the way he was looking at him :D

kevlouie

01/02/2004, 09:55 AM

I really thought Sam was about to give Frodo a big kiss smack on the lips the way he was looking at him :D

Thought or hoped ? :lol: That my friends was your "Oscar moment". I kept thinking it was funny the way they had to keep switching doubles in to match the height with Ian McKellan, and so they couldn't look back.

ClarkiiClownfish

01/02/2004, 10:35 AM

Be careful guys, you speak blasphemy of the greatest movie ever

Thats right! Be VERY, VERY careful :)

Brian, I am not trying to start a spat with you over a "stupid movie", but maybe you should re-read your post. The way you have it worded, it sounds like you DID leave the movie 30 minutes early. To me it does anyway.

many of those who exited the theater as I did

When a movie is over.....ALL of the audience, not "many of us" leave the theater. Thats what threw me. The way you worded your post, it sounded like there were "many of you that exited early".
But, I am glad you stayed.
I do respect your opinion, but I dont agree with it.
Peace.

BrianD

01/02/2004, 10:44 AM

I only meant that the chatter I heard as I left the movie (after it was over) was that people were wondering if it would ever end.

I enjoyed the movie, but my mark of a great movie is when I hate for it to be over because I am enjoying it so much. LOTR3 lost that appeal for me at the end. Again, I understand my opinion may be in the minority, but I am used to that ;)

BTW, now that Kevlouie brought it up, you would think that after spending zillions of dollars on special affects that they would have had some way of making the hobbits look more realistic from behind, instead of looking so obviously like children stand-ins.

BigBird

01/02/2004, 10:55 AM

I love the commentary about the affection between Sam and Frodo -- the books received a similar reception 40 years ago.

Americans are awfully homophobic! Just the image of 2 men smiling at one another makes us squirm:eek2: :eek2:

JB NY

01/02/2004, 10:58 AM

I do agree that ending was a little long. I felt the book did the same though. I also feel, that after almost having 9 hours invested in the movie and charaters, PJ could hang out a little to give people a more in depth view of what happens to the characters after eveything was done.

But I agree, it slows the movie down a lot after the fast pace established in the rest of the movie.

Runner

01/02/2004, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by BigBird
I love the commentary about the affection between Sam and Frodo -- the books received a similar reception 40 years ago. [French heterophobic comment snipped] I hadn't heard any commentary about it. Nor did I think anything of it except that they had an exceptionally strong friendship hammered together by common struggles. I think it is really reaching to read something sexual into that. Then again, my view is shaded because I have read the books and knew the background of their affection for each other. And the movie had Sam and Rosie paired off from the beginning.

BrianD

01/02/2004, 12:10 PM

Americans are awfully homophobic

Geesh, why do people have to take innocent comments and take them to such an extreme? Bigbird, where did anyone say anything was remotely sexual about Sam/Frodo? I said that the way Sam was looking at Frodo, it was like he wanted to give him a kiss. It was a joke. I am not sure who it made "squirm".

How can people jump to such wild conclusions?

kevlouie

01/02/2004, 12:27 PM

Yeah, people chill. I'm pretty sure we were just joking about the movie. I'll refrain from the famous Lady Macbeth comment too. :D

Q-ball

01/02/2004, 01:04 PM

Heh, now SHE's a hottie! :D

BrianD

01/02/2004, 02:19 PM

Somebody give Q his blow-up doll back so he leaves us alone.

Q-ball

01/02/2004, 02:56 PM

Bah, you took it from me after Griss gave it to me...I didn't even get a chance to get her out of the box. To be honest, I don't want her after you, so you go ahead & keep her, k? :lol:

BrianD

01/02/2004, 03:41 PM

Actually, Griss never used it because he prefers this version:

http://natzoo.si.edu/Animals/Primates/images/covers/cover_gorillaPortrait.jpg

Wolverine

01/04/2004, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by Runner
I hadn't heard any commentary about it. Nor did I think anything of it except that they had an exceptionally strong friendship hammered together by common struggles. I think it is really reaching to read something sexual into that. Then again, my view is shaded because I have read the books and knew the background of their affection for each other. And the movie had Sam and Rosie paired off from the beginning.

I agree with you, but even when the books were released there were people who decried them as promoting homosexuality, and felt that there was a clear "connection" between Frodo and Sam, so this line of conversation is not original here. And there are still those around who feel that way about the books (and now the movies).

Dave

FLpatty

01/04/2004, 08:29 PM

Actually, there is a whole pile of literary criticism based on Queer Theory that discusses the relationship between Sam and Frodo. It's not that we're homophobic, it's that we have to analyze everything to death and English Lit graduate students and professors are compelled to pick nits.
I'm a Tolkien scholar. I think he was bothered by the allusions to homosexuality back when the topic first reared its ugly head. When one considers, however, that his closest circle of friends were all male, one also has to consider the Cavalier tradition from which these Englishmen had sprung. Tightly-knit fellowships indeed!! Just because two members separate from the rest doesn't mean they're going to go do naughty things to each other in Fangorn Forest. The spotlight on Sam and Frodo represents the depths to which men's emotions can go and unabashedly celebrates that in the form of fellowship - something Tolkien lost when half his real-life fellowship were horribly killed in the first world war.

Read Tolkien's biography sometime. He was a fascinating man who had a ****ty childhood.