Obesity and stomach stapling

[BrianD]

Why is stapling your stomach and creating a lifetime of health issues a better option than eating less and exercising more?

I think the nation is creating a whole new generation of stomach-stapling customers. I read an article recently about young teens who are undergoing this procedure, even though it is dangerous and requires a lifetime of nutrional supplements.

Wandering through Wal-Mart over the holiday weekend, I was amazed at how many fat kids there are. I am not talking chubby. I am talking huge. How do parents allow their children to get so morbidly obese at such a young age? . I don't get it. And how is it that a surgical procedure is the answer?

Please to 'splain.

[dogfacepuffer]

Well, I had weight problems throughout my childhood, and I played softball, twirled batton, danced jazz, swam, and raced bikes. At age 27 I was finally diagnosed with a hypo-thyroid (slow). And I had been tested in my early teens, so who knows. Anyway, I sat next to a distant family member at Thanksgiving that had this surgery in July. She ate about 1/4 cup rice and 2 bites of turkey. I thought she was being rude because her and the cook (my MIL) don't get along. After dinner we talked, and she told me about the surgery, and said she has lost 110lbs, and would do it again in a heart beat. She has about another 100 to lose. But she has to have surgery to have excess skin removed, a tummy tuck, and be on pills forever. She still says it's worth it because she couldn't have lost the weight on her own. And, she used to take about 12 pills a day for heart trouble, now she takes 4, and her goal is to get to 1. So, although I wouldn't do it, I guess I see it for some, but never kids or teens. That's a lot of years to live like that.

[MarksReef]

There once was a very nice guy that joined the U.R.S. named BigG
He came to a few meets and was active on posting. His last post was "Wish me luck" I'm going in for a stomach stapling and then you can call me little G. I'm not really sure what happened but was told he died from complications from the surgery.
I think a diet would have been better but then again what do I know I just have a beer belly.
R.I.P. BigG

[dogfacepuffer]

That's a sad story. I think people make less of the surgery than what it is. It's a major thing. I asked the lady what happens to the rest of your stomache, and she said it's still their, just not used. Sounds like it'd be full of acid. Yuck.

[davidpt40]

I'm a runner. One night at work I figured up how many miles a person would have to run to burn 1 pound of fat...

The absolute minimum would be 72 miles.

[BrianD]

David, I think it is misleading to believe that you have to run 72 miles to lose a #.

[husker267]

BrianD - I think what david was saying was that the total caloric total for 1 pound of pure fat is the equivalent to the total calories burned by running 72 miles. Of course, different body structures (ie body fat % vs lean muscle, etc) will burn calories at different rates.

[davidpt40]

Yeah, you can count your daily metabolism and stuff too.

But if you continue to eat normally (and not lose weight), its going to take about 72 miles to lose a pound of fat.

But running (or even walking) can have a snowball effect. You start enjoying running or walking, then you start to eat right to have more energy to do that activity. Pretty soon your eating brown rice and cabbage for supper and changing your whole lifestyle.

A while back I read an article on a study that was done. A group of people ran 3 miles a day,6 days a week for 6 months. Their running performance improved, but they did not lose any weight. I will try to find that article when I get home.

Heres the calculations I used:
100 calories per mile
50 calories from glucose, 50 calories from fat (actually only elite marathon runners can burn this much fat, usually its 60/40 or 75/25)
3600 calories from a pound of fat
So in order to burn 3600 fat calories, one must burn 3600 glucose/glycogen calories. 3600+3600=7200. 7200/100=72miles.

[jimwat]

FYI -

Actually stomach stapling is not that popular anymore. The latest craze is the Roux en Y gastric bypass. This proceedure completely splits the stomach in two. The new stomach is about the size of a baby jar, the old stomach remains intact to produce gastric juices for digestion and stays conected to the intestine (hence the term "Y"). The people who have this done, usually have their gall bladder removed, as it is connected to the old stomach and would be prone to produce stones because it is no longer used. The proceedure can now acually be done arthroscopically. Anyway, I am not sure why anyone would want to do something this drastic unless there were some type of life threatening problem that required it. However, there are always going to be people who would do something like this for "cosmetic" reasons (and, unfortunately, doctors willing to perform it). Personally, I could not imagine NEVER being able to eat a great big juicy steak again!

I have a friend who had this done and is very happy with it. She was about 150 pounds overweight and was have some health problems. The biggest problem was that her weight was causing some hormonal problems that made it difficult for her to conceive. She had the proceedure about 2 years ago and has since lost over 100 pounds. She had a baby boy in September.

Sorry to hear about your friend. I have heard, that for some reason, extremely overweight men run a higher rate of complications from the surgery.

[BrianD]

I know I can lose a pound with a lot less exertion than running 72 miles.

[despot101]

Originally posted by davidpt40
Heres the calculations I used:
100 calories per mile

I think your numbers are a bit off. This link states that a 190lbs person running a 10 minute mile would burn 863 calories. Running a 6 minute mile would burn 1380 calories.

http://www.nutristrategy.com/activitylist3.htm

And here's another link that has numbers about the same I think.

http://www.fitresource.com/Fitness/CalBurn.htm#Individual Sports and Competitive non-team sports

Also I found to lose a pound of weight you only have to burn 3500 calories. So running 3 miles in 18 minutes you would lose over a pound.

[TropTrea]

Personaly I think it is not just the parents falt but the way society has moved over the last 40 to 50 years. What we have today is a society in which both adults in the household work. Therefore there is limited time for cooking meals and watching what the kids are eating.

How often does the family go out to eat rather than sit down and eat a healthy home cooked meal? Resturant food generaly is heavier in fats and carbs than most healthy home cooked meals. It leaves the kids still hungery after the meal and there nutrition is way off balance.

I know myself many times I have eaten at fast foods places where one meal covered more than my total daily requirement of fatts and callories. Yet two hours later I was hungry again.

Yet we cannot forget the other end of the spectrum that is out there as well. How many people develop eating disorders do to the guilt for being a few pounds over weight at one point in there life and now are at the point of being drasticly undernurished.

Dennis


Originally posted by BrianD
Why is stapling your stomach and creating a lifetime of health issues a better option than eating less and exercising more?

I think the nation is creating a whole new generation of stomach-stapling customers. I read an article recently about young teens who are undergoing this procedure, even though it is dangerous and requires a lifetime of nutrional supplements.

Wandering through Wal-Mart over the holiday weekend, I was amazed at how many fat kids there are. I am not talking chubby. I am talking huge. How do parents allow their children to get so morbidly obese at such a young age? . I don't get it. And how is it that a surgical procedure is the answer?

Please to 'splain.

[rallendorph]

Hi folks,

I thought I would chip in here given that I'm a poster child for this type of operation. I have not had this procedure, but I am considering it (or similar path). So why do I think it may be the correct path,

1st - always a big kid although athletic.
2nd - 9 knee dislocations (sports), and 3 major surgeries later walking is no longer taken for granted. Will be exploring artificial knees soon. But first need to drop 100lbs to 150lbs. (Chicken / Egg.)
3rd - Family History of Father, Grand Father, ... passing away from chronic Heart disease.
4th - 6'3" and pushing 4 bills.
5th - While I understand the concept of self control and iron will power, the facts are for me to lose significant weight, I need to make it a top priority in my life. Right now it is 3rd on my list behind Family and my Career. Empirically, I know for me to dedicate enough energy and effort to lose significant weight, I need to make it either #1, or #2. The problem is not short term, but long term control.
6th - Age 40+ - I'm now combating muscle loss as well as diet.

So, why might I want to undertake this surgery,
1. Lower risk of Heart Disease
2. Lower risk for Diabetes
3. Lower the risk of infection. (Heavy folks tend to suffer from a greater number of infections.)
4. To be able to stand / walk longer than 2 or 3 hours before joint pain becomes debilitating.
5. Improve Apnea
6. I want to make 50.
7. Sedentary Job has me in chair for percentage of day, or on the road in a hotel.
8. There is no magic weight-loss pill. Most chemical solutions have severe detrimental effects on the body.
9. The perception of weight as being a deficiency in ones moral character is very real. Please watch the news, or take notice of your companies upper management. Note how many of them have a significant weight problem....
10. And a host of other medical conditions brought on by the stresses of carrying a heavy load. And, the resulting environmental impact that places on ones body.

No doubt, there are many ways to attain short term (small) goals. It's a different game when your talking large % weight loss. I've lost 100lbs once before (Nutri-system), and successfully kept it off for over three years. Then I ripped apart a leg doing Martial Arts, and 3 months later started gaining weight again.

I would never advocate this type of surgery for the young, and or for folks who do not have other debilitating conditions (asthma, joint issues, ...) that contribute and, or limit their exercise. But at some point you face a losing battle between your body aging, and the aggregate damage you inflict on your body over the years. While, I make no argument that I choose to place food in my mouth. I do offer that that at some point I need to consider alternative (maybe drastic) approaches to deal with my weight that I have been unable to resolve in a more mundane fashion.

Thanks,
Rob A. :beer:

[joeychitwood]

From a medical standpoint, one has to assess risks and benefits before initiating any kind of therapy, surgery or medication.

In the case of morbid obesity, there are times where the risk of gastric stapling or bypass is much less overall than the risk of continued obesity, with its ensuing diabetes, degenerative joint disease, heart disease, hypertension, strokes, etc.

In every case, measures such as exercise and calorie restrictions have failed repeatedly.

It is very true that our sedentary lifestyles and poor diet have contributed to an epidemic of obesity in the West. In travels to other parts of the world, particularly the Far East, I have always been struck by the absence of obesity. Of course, their diets consist of fish, rice, fruits and vegetables, and locomotion is almost always on foot or by bike.

[rallendorph]

There was a global study done a while back (Sorry, I forget the reference) that indicated that the old folks who were in the best health tended to have lived a diet that fell somewhere between starvation, and barely adequate. The summation of the study was that the body operated more efficiently at nominal sustenance levels than when fed a bountiful diet.

It's interesting that longevity and health are not commensurate with a full plate.

Rob A. :beer:

[davidpt40]

I think your numbers are a bit off. This link states that a 190lbs person running a 10 minute mile would burn 863 calories. Running a 6 minute mile would burn 1380 calories.

http://www.nutristrategy.com/activitylist3.htm

And here's another link that has numbers about the same I think.

http://www.fitresource.com/Fitness/....htm#Individual Sports and Competitive non-team sports

Also I found to lose a pound of weight you only have to burn 3500 calories. So running 3 miles in 18 minutes you would lose over a pound.

Whoa, thats way way off. That site is telling calories burned per hour or something. Running uses approximately 100 calories per mile. The faster you run, the higher ratio of sugar to fat that is utilized, but uses close to the same amount of calories.

Calories burned per hour are listed below for the example body weights of 130, 155 and 190 pounds.

[despot101]

Ohh yes, I see that now.
It's monday...just ignore me.
:rolleyes:

[BrianD]

David, are you saying you burn the same amount of calories regardless of how fast you run? If so, I disagree. If not, sorry :)

[dc]

Well I've only known one person who had it done. She said it changed her life for the better. She started excercising and eating better. Something she just couldn't seem to get going without it. She said she was always heavy and just got heavier. It kind of just snuck up on her. When you are that obese you can lose fifty pounds and noone notices, so why try?? That's how she felt anyway.

[cal3v]

One of the teachers at my school had a gastric bypass, he has lost a lot of weight and he has always been big ever since he was younger. It is very hard and sometimes the pain is so bad it feels like dying but its often the lesser of two evils. If he didn't have a gastric bypass on the other hand we were talking about it with one of my teachers, and that he probably wouldn't be able to make it much longer being that much overweight. On the other hand another teacher at our school who is also very heavy refuses to have an operation like that and diets, exercises, etc, but it might not be enough. Just different ways of looking at it I guess.

[Megalodon]

I think using crystal meth as a means of weight loss is stupid just like stapling your stomach is. It just forces you to not eat so much junk and causing a new set of health problems.

You need all that room in your stomach to help digest all the food you should be eating in order to get the nutrients you need. What you eat is the problem. Too much carbohydrates and fat? Well guess what... you get more calories than you need. People with slower metabolisms need to pay even more attention to this than skinny minnies like myself.

Eat a lot of fruits and veggies and low-fat sources of protein only. If you have a low metabolism, IMO, screw potatoes, bread, and pasta altogether, even the whole grain. Take multi-vitamins anyway. Avoid sugar, booze, and other junk like the bubonic plague. Watch your caloric intake. Don’t eliminate olive oil from your cooking, but forget McDonald’s ever existed.

Yet so many obese people are still deficient in certain nutrients. Too much potato, slurpy, and ground beef taking up valuable space in their bellies. Then they go on diets by starving themselves, but still eat candy and Burger King the rare time they do eat.

Can anyone say "malnourishment"?

[Kevomac]

Megalodon,

I couldn't disagree more. I'm not trying to start a flame war, but you noted yourself that you are a skinny minnie. Being such, you have no idea what it's like to be a morbidly obese person, so stop trying to make it into a "self-control" issue.

Someone noted above that the human body functions best at starvation levels, and that is probably true. Why do we have a problem with obesity now? I propose a multi-facet explanation.

1. Our diet has improved - A hundred years ago, you skinny minnies would have croaked the first time the crops failed...your bodies burn calories at such a rate that you can't store reserves for the lean times. People with slow metabolic rates would have been better equipped to survive. The ability to store fat was a survival technique that no longer serves a purpose and has become a threat.

2. We are consuming more high calorie / fat foods. Again, from a historical viewpoint, out bodies crave these foods because they would have been vital to survival in a subsistence diet.

3. We get a lot less exercise. This is true, but when you consider the negative effects that excess weight causes, its no wonder that overweight people are reluctant to exercise. Try this, go jogging with an extra 100-200 pound strapped to your body and see how far you get. Its a vicious cycle.

Stomach stapling? My wife had it a few years ago and it has given her her life back. She has lost to date about 160 pounds. Since the initial surgery, prior to which she had problems ranging from repeated hernias, asthma, joint problems, etc, she has had multiple surgeries for skin reduction. BTW, if anyone wants help getting insurance to pay for these medically necessary procedures, send me an email. My wife will be glad to help.

My wife now spends 6 days a week in the gym and even though she is still "overweight" by medical standards, her heart rate, blood pressure, and overall health are far better than any skinny minnie I have ever met. She goes to aerobic spin class five times a week, and kicks everyones butts in endurance.

Was it necessary? She had been overweight since she was four. She used to come home from school everyday to hear her father tell her fat jokes until he passed out drunk. Her mother was giving her diet pills when she was in elementary school and taking her to weight-watchers meetings. There is no question that what my MIL did constitutes child abuse. Who's in shape now? Not my MIL. Nor my FIL. He's slowly dying from obesity. Good for him. My 11 year old daughter is morbidly obese. She doesn't see her grandparents because they threatened to have the state take her away because her weight problem was, according to them, because of our neglect. What do you think the problem is? I just hope that medicince can find a better way by the time she's an adult so that she won't have to go through what her mother has.

BTW, my wife also takes vitamins, but has no health problems due to the surgery. The people who usually die from these surgeries do so because their heart muscles are so enlarged that the stress of the weight loss is too much for them. Why can't we head things off before it gets that bad? Why can't we stop labeling obesity a character flaw? I'm sorry if this seems accusatory and angry, but I am angry that people still feel this way despite the overwhelming medical evidence to the contrary. Obesity is a disease, not a joke. Remember that the next time you hear a fat joke.

[BrianD]

How does one allow an 11 year old to become morbidly obese?

[Kevomac]

My husband, as you can see, is passionate about this subject. From reading other reader's posts - I am sad to see that so many people still choose to see obesity as a choice made by the weak. The funny thing I found, is at the gym. The body builders, personal trainers and a vast majority of the regulars that I speak to, they all say that what your body looks like is hugely dependant on your genes. Why then, do so many see this as a lack of control? If your mom, dad, family are all skinny - the odds are that you are too. Is it because you eat and exercise like an Olympian? Doubtful. The families that are predominantly obese may just be eating the same thing you are. You might also notice that there are a few skinny people eating at McDonalds. Long story short - that surgery saved my life and gave my husband his wife back and my children their mom back. Now I can outrun my 7yr old - and I can't remember the last time I was tired. I am in the gym for 5 spin classes a week and I power lift 3 days a week. My cholesterol is 162 now, asthma is gone - even my allergies are better. Think of the money my insurance company is saving now. I am 10 foot tall and bulletproof. I know that it is easier to fluff people who are obese off as weak, but you are fooling yourself if you do. For those who refuse to acknowledge that it just might be genetics - I say - keep underestimating us, it keeps us one step ahead.

[jimwat]

Mrs. Kevomac - Well Said!! And congratulations on your success! :beer:

[BrianD]

If you make healthy diet choices and exercise regularly, you will control your weight. If I decide to have that hot fudge sundae, I know it will cost me another 30 minutes on the treadmill. Yes, some people burn fat easier than others, but that is something you have to consider when planning your diet and exercise routine.

[jimwat]

If you make healthy diet choices and exercise regularly, you will control your weight.Sounds simple! However, you might want to consider that less than 10% who attempt diets have success beyond 5 years. Also, that if dieting was something anyone could do, why is there a 30 billion dollar industy supporting it? My guess is that there is still a lot about maintaining a healthly body weight that we do not understand. Painting it in black and white will not work for most people.

[sammystingray]

If a person needs to be "forced" to eat less, I would rather see them get their jaw wired shut instead of their stomach stapled. Strangely enough, I read an article in the paper this week here in Cleveland about how a person died on the operating table getting their stomach stapled, and this person also worked at the hospital although I'm not sure of what their job was. I have heard of people getting their jaw wired shut for dietary reasons, but I don't personally know anyone. I do however know someone who had a broken jaw, and they dropped 70 pounds while their jaw was wired. A liquid diet and mumbling doesn't sound like much fun, but neither does death.

[Melody]

I was in a wreck several years ago and my jaw was broke. Wired shut for 4 weeks I weighed 110 lb at the time and lost down to 89 lbs almost anorexic before it was all over with. :( Yeah...getting 'wired' will definitely cause weight lose.

[BrianD]

When I say "diet", I mean your daily meals. Weight-loss plans are another matter entirely. Unless you change the lifestyle that got you to the point that you need to lose weight, no weight loss plan will help long term.

[davidpt40]

The amount of fats cells your body has is dependent on genes and what you eat as a little kid. If your parents feed you cakes and candy while your body was in its developmental stages, you will have more (permanent) fat than others. I think theres 2 or 3 fat building stages in early childhood, and one during adolescents.

Fat cells, like muscle cells, are permanent. You will always have the same number after a certain time.

[Kevomac]

Thank you Davidpt40. Shame on you BrianD for sitting in moral judgement. Where did you get your degree in physiology and nutrition? What about endocrinology? Don't have one, you say?

And you, Sammy Stingray, how long do you think the weight loss from a liquid diet lasts? My wife was on the opti-fast liquid diet plan for eight months and lost over 100 pounds. Think it stayed off? Have you ever heard of opti-fast? No? That's because it doesn't exist anymore. Not only was it ineffective, it was dangerous and stupid. You're a fool if you think that such a thing would work.

As far as how my 11 year old got obese? Eating the same diet as her brother whose weight is normal. They are half-siblings, she got the fat gene, he didn't.

As for dieing on the operating table, the actor who played Hoss on Bonanza died on the table during knee surgery. Should we all stop having that surgery done? People die on the OT every day. Wake up and smell the reality. I would love to hear from someone who knows that statistics. Who is more likely to die on the OT? Someone having heart surgery or someone having the gastric bypass? Should we avoid doing heart surgery? Obesity is just as much a disease as heart disease and just as lethal. Some people are too bigoted to admit that obesity isn't a character flaw. Its a problem. And its quickly becoming more of a problem. Personally, I worry about my daughters health, and I also worry about her living in a world that will judge her by her size and not by who she is.

Thank you jimwat for your input.

BTW, liposuction removes fat cells which, as Davidpt40 pointed out, do not regenerate. They can fill up, or shrink down, but you are born with what you have and you are also born with the tendency for your body to try to keep them filled or not.

Also, consider what was said about the diet industry. If it was as easy as you make it sound, BrianD, why would so many people be so desperate as to spend billions trying to lose weight?

Forgive me for being angry. But I am. Bigotry against big people is no different than bigotry against people of another race, except for the fact that bigotry against big people is legal and acceptable.

[Megalodon]

Originally posted by davidpt40
If your parents feed you cakes and candy while your body was in its developmental stages, you will have more (permanent) fat than others.

It sounds like children shouldn't be fed "morbid" amounts of calories. It won't be long before she'll be old enough to go out and buy her own high-fat high-carb food. (Although stomach-stapling is an option later in life.)

:rolleye1:

[despot101]

Originally posted by Megalodon
It sounds like children shouldn't be fed "morbid" amounts of calories. It won't be long before she'll be old enough to go out and buy her own high-fat high-carb food. (Although stomach-stapling is an option later in life.)

Yeah thats right lets judge someone that is getting their stomach stapled because their parents didnt feed them right as children. :rolleye1:

2000 calories is correct amount to consume daily correct?

[BrianD]

Kevomac, where am I sitting in moral judgement? I said that if you have the correct diet and exercise regularly, you will control your weight. Is that being judgemental?

Why is there a diet industry? Because we are a nation of fads and quick-fixes. You are the one making comments about obesity being a character flaw, not me. If being overweight was solely a genetic trait, why has this problem ballooned in the past generation?

Let me ask you this. Do you control what your daughter eats? Do you eat fast food? Do you have snacks in the house? Do you allow her to drink soda? How many minutes of exercise do you do on a daily basis?

I think your anger is misdirected.

[jimwat]

It is kind funny, that almost all of the weightloss plans include "eating right and exercising". One of the problems is defining "eating right". I remember growing up and going to health class and learning about the food pyramid. Today, research is showing that pyramid is upside down, carbs are bad, and some fats are actually good (and necessary). It seems pretty obvious to me that the "experts" are really just winging it. The only thing that everyone agrees on is exercising (and drinking lots of water).

The opti-fast diet is a good example of what was once considered a viable, "healthy", weightloss plan (remember all the weight that Opra lost). It was a 0 fat diet diet (initially), that was supposed to be integrated slowly with a "healthy diet and exercise" (as one got closer to their goal weight). We now know that 0 fat is bad for you. In the case of Opti-fast, the lack of fat in the diet causes a persons gallblader to be inactive. Once the person started adding fat back into their diet and their gallbladder started working again (after a period of inactivity), they were at risk of causing gallstones.

[despot101]

Ok here's a question for everyone that things overweight people have only themselves to blame.

My senior year of high school. I started out 35 pound overweight for my height. I cut down to 1200 calories daily, exercised everyday. After 3 months I was still 15 pound over. I cut to under 500 calories daily. Still after another 2 months I was 5 pounds overweight. But in some peoples mind's it just a matter of trying isnt that right?

[Megalodon]

I agree BrianD. Some people are very sensitive, and you know, rightfully so. But it's misdirected. Our discussion here is one of health anyway, not morality.

I don't agree with these stupid fad diets. The reason why they don't work is because people should be eating a proper diet and exercising all through their lives.

I agree that genetics can account for someone being quite chubby, but I don't agree genetics alone account for someone being "morbidly obese" to the point of facing death over it.

Despot, I'm obviously not judging anyone who wasn't fed right as a child. My statement was directed to parents of the present who for some reason can't restrict the amount of food their kid eats.

[Kevomac]

By making the argument that weight is the product of diet and exercise alone, you are implying your belief that obesity is caused solely by personal choices, not by any medical condition. As for how obesity has bloomed in the past century, read my argument for that in my original posting. I think I made that clear, and my position is the same as many in the medical field. To quote the endocrinologist my wife saw a few years ago, she has "done a better job of overcoming genetics" than anyone he had seen. He also told her that no matter what surgery she had, or how much weight she lost, she would never look "normal" because of her genetics. He didn't mean that in a harsh way, just that the way her body was built, she would always be big. Since when is big not "normal" anyway?

Do we control what my daughter eats? Yes. We do eat good food, we also eat fast food occasionally. Do you? Does she drink sodas or have snacks at the house? No. But she still gains weight. It scares me, but so do people who think that her weight problem is the result of my not raising her right. I would wager that there a more than a few RC'ers who are overweight but who wouldn't be willing to admit it to a bunch of strangers online simply because they fear ridicule from people like you who trivialize their problem as bad choices. I wish it was that simple.

[despot101]

Sorry, I just mistook your statement.

[jimwat]

In my experience, the people who think that weightloss is just a case of "mind over matter" have never really had a serious weight problem. In most instances it is a person(s) who have had some short term success (less than five years) with some type of diet/health plan and want to let everyone know how easy it is. :rolleyes:

[Kevomac]

FROM MRS KEVOMAC -
Wow, this really is a passionate topic isn't it guys? Let me add this one thing. If you are not obese, if no one in your family is obese, arguing the subject is like me arguing for or against testicular cancer treatments. I can have an opinion, but it would be subjective at best because I have never experienced it. Obesity is an hour by hour, day by day battle that never ends. My two children eat the same thing, but their BMI is drastically different. When my daughter was a baby, she slept more that my son did. She didn't play as actively as an infant. She DID NOT eat more though. In fact I'd say she ate less. Her metobolic rate was slower. I had her thyroid tested and she was normal. But the slowness began to catch up with her and now she is a beautiful, sweet and gentle little girl who is morbidly obese. I have her reading labels, excersizing and paying close attention to what goes in her mouth. The only difference between my daughter and me as a child is that she has a strong sense of self esteem. We have got to instill that in our children. I will not have her spend her childhood loathing the image in the mirror like I did. We have all got to stop judging and elevating ourselves over each other based on things we really don't fully understand. I fasted for 8 months people. Whomever thinks I did that with no will power is crazy. I am in the gym more than most people. I am restricting my caloric intake to 1200 a day. I weigh 220 and wear a size 14 still. It should also be noted that in order to have the gastric bypass surgery done, you must provide documented - 3rd party verification of all the diets and weight loss programs you have done in an attempt to lose the weight traditionally and have a full battery of test that include a psychological exam is required. This must all be completed prior to the procedure. Anyone who thinks this is a quick fix is misinformed.

[Soltaker]

get a tummy pace maker!! :D

[BrianD]

A year ago I decided that I had allowed myself to gain too much weight. I wanted to take 15# off. I did it in about 5 weeks. I haven't gained a bit of it back. Kevomac, do I eat fast foods? No. Never. Zilch. I haven't had a candy bar in probably 6 months. French fries or pizza? No way. If I "binge eat", I exercise more. In my opinion, if your daughter is truly morbidly obese there is no way she should ever touch fast foods.

Am I a nutritionist? No, but my sister is a nutritionist/personal trainer, her husband is a doctor, and my cousin is a dietician. I listen to their advice, watch what I eat, and exercise a minimum of an hour a day.

Brian

[Megalodon]

Originally posted by Kevomac
As for how obesity has bloomed in the past century, read my argument for that in my original posting. I think I made that clear, and my position is the same as many in the medical field.

If this is your argument in your origional posting...

1. Our diet has improved - A hundred years ago, you skinny minnies would have croaked the first time the crops failed...your bodies burn calories at such a rate that you can't store reserves for the lean times. People with slow metabolic rates would have been better equipped to survive. The ability to store fat was a survival technique that no longer serves a purpose and has become a threat.

2. We are consuming more high calorie / fat foods. Again, from a historical viewpoint, out bodies crave these foods because they would have been vital to survival in a subsistence diet.

3. We get a lot less exercise. This is true, but when you consider the negative effects that excess weight causes, it's no wonder that overweight people are reluctant to exercise. Try this, go jogging with an extra 100-200 pound strapped to your body and see how far you get. Its a vicious cycle.

Then I agree completely. I think from that it's quite clear what has to be done in order to not become extremely obese.

Remember, I'm not talking about chubby people who eat right yet stay chubby because of a slow metabolism/genetics here. Many of my friends are like that. One friend went from chubby to obese within a year. She has diabetes, so I know she can do something to help lower her weight, but she'll always be chubby, no fault of her own. I'm talking about very obese people who staple their stomach to force them not to eat so darn much.

And I'm talking "generally" here as indicated in my first post... so Kevomac, please don't be so upset with this debate. It's not personal. I feel terrible for the emotional child abuse your wife faced growing up. Shame on her parents. I don't know you two and I really don't know what cards you have been dealt in your life.

I had a crystal meth addiction for one year, ending five months ago. Did I ever consider stapling my hands to my side to stop me from driving to my dealer’s house? NO! I use will power to not do it anymore because I know the health costs. And believe me, crystal is many times harder to say ‘No’ to than food when addiction and habit calls.

[Kevomac]

Megalodon, you don't have to moderate crystal meth to live. You do have to eat. Your ability to overcome a drug addiction is not an apples to apples comparison.

Brian, 15lbs is not 250lbs, again - not apples to apples. I can promise you - you have had a candy bar since I have. Even your
doctor family will tell you that not one of our metabolisms are the same. If it were then there would be no diet industry.

Think how great it would be if we could all see each others positive aspects instead of seeing other peoples stuggles and flaws and labeling ourselves better, more in control or superior because we don't have that problem. The truth is that none of us know everything about weight loss, obesity or fitness. But maybe if we supported one another and shared what we DO know, we could all get a little bit better at managing our own struggles and help everyone get a little stronger. Just a thought.

[joeychitwood]

The posts suggesting a balanced diet and exercise for morbidly obese people sound a little like suggesting drinking in moderation to a flaming alcoholic!

And Megalodon, if you stop doing meth with will power alone, you weren't addicted, you were an abuser of meth. No one deals with an addicition by will power alone.

[dc]

Unfortunately people who don't have a problem losing weight will just never understand that is isn't that simple. My congratulations to Mrs. Kevomac for both her weight loss and the guts to post here. :thumbsup: Also for giving your child encouragement, they say kids are cruel, but adults are worse.

[Kevomac]

Thanks for all the positive comments. I wish it were so simple, then we would't be in this boat. Will power is one thing, but as Joeychitwood said, it isn't as simple as that. I also agreed with what he said about suggesting moderation to a raging alcoholic. My FIL is an alcoholic. He quit years ago when he thought he had cirhossis (sp?), which for those who don't know is terminal. He apparently started again about the time that we stopped allowing the kids to see him. When he called and screamed at my wife on the phone about our daughter's weight problem, she told him that she would not allow him to abuse the kids the way he had her. To our shock, her mother, ever eager to protect her own interests, sided with him. He then sent the local detectives to our house alleging that my wife had cost him $20,000 when she was a teenager, an amount that included him putting in a backyard pool so that she would exercise. Luckily for us, the police looked at the e-mails we had exchanged with them and dropped the whole matter. In fact they advised us as to what we could do to protect ourselves and our children from him.

As for the alcohol, he left several drunken messages on my wifes cell phone, including one in which he stated that he "would be better off raising the children" himself. He is a former US Navy sailor, avid gun collector and hunter. We weren't sure if he was going to try to accomplish this by killing us both. Am I sensitive about this issue? You better believe I am. My wife's entire family took his side and we have had to seperate ourselves from all of them. Meanwhile, my FIL who is about 6'4" and at least 400 pounds is slowly dying, or may be dead by now. He isn't even 60 yet. But he still insists that obesity is a character flaw and will not allow himself or his wife to have a surgery that could save both of their lives (my MIL is obese as well). My wife will always wonder if she could have done something to gain his approval, but she never will.

Perhaps it is best that we let this issue die here. Thanks for all of those who agreed with me and spoke up. If anyone out there is need of this surgery, please feel free to e-mail us. One of the plastic surgeons who performed several of the surgeries she has needed to remove the loose skin left over from her weight loss still refers people to her who are in the same boat and need help getting their insurance to pay for the procedures. It really can save peoples lives.

[Kevomac]

BTW

joeychitwood,

I love your avatar! Is that you?

[Megalodon]

Originally posted by joeychitwood
And Megalodon, if you stop doing meth with will power alone, you weren't addicted, you were an abuser of meth. No one deals with an addicition by will power alone.

I know you're a doctor, but I was and I did. Maybe I'll explain over there on Brian's meth thread.

[rspar]

I'm a firm believer in the Adkins diet. I've lost 30lbs and it hasn't been that hard. Thats after umpteen different diets over the years. I still have 20 or so to go. I like that I can diet for a few weeks then take a mini vacation from it ~a day or two. The blood pressure took a nice drop as well. I wouldn't do the staple thing but I wouldn't blame anyone for trying either.

Sorry 15lbs nice try but I don't think you get it. I know you think you do it's like softball and the majors it's a whole different game.

[JazzMan]

It is all a matter of self control/ and controling the addiction. I know, I was there. I was very very fat. Fat people are weak people.......once they accept that they will be able to move on.

My family is a long line of heavy people. Father 400lbs. Mom 200lbs. Brother 300lbs. Both Grandparents were morbidly obese. My aunt was over 550 at one point. I was 250 lbs all through High School.

I realized that I was out of control and decided to stop. I had no control or will powere and was weak when it came to food. Food had me in it's clutches and I could not break free.........so what did I do. I looked in the mirror one day after many many fad diets and decided that I had enough. I wanted some self control and dignity. I was 315 lbs and had no control. I was weak. Here is what I did and still do.....

1. I started walking.......still eating my Mcdonalds and Ice Cream
2. I started slowly running when I could....still eating my ice creams and Burger King.
3. I started running more frequently.
4. My body began rejecting some of the ice cream and fatty foods because they would not sustain me.
5. I ran some more and began to eat alot of fruits and vegetables and fish and chicken
6. I ate more fish and chicken and ran some more.
7. I lost a total of 128 lbs in 19 months
8. I keep running and walking.
9. I walk 2 miles a day with my kids.
10. I run 3 days a week.
11. I eat more now than I ever did but my choices are fruits, vegetables, nuts,chicken and fish.
12. I pig out on Sundays.


Gastric Bypass scares the crap out of me. It has been implmented by the same society that helped me get fat in the first place.

[BrianD]

At what level of weight loss is one "worthy" of notice?

You can minimize 15# all you want, but you can't lose 100 without losing the first 15. If battling obesity isn't about will power, what is it? Stomach stapling doesn't change any of the myriad genetic causes cited. So why does it work? Because you eat less. Isn't that it in a nutshell? How can you say on one hand that obesity is caused by lower metabolism, how fat is converted, etc etc, yet look to a surgical procedure to reduce how much you eat to solve it? I am sorry, I just don't get. I have never understood why engaging in behaviour that harms your body can be seen as something you have no control over. My family has a history of high blood pressure and diabetes. If I am over-weight, my odds of suffering either or both go up dramatically. So I work hard to maintain a reasonable weight. I think we do way too much rationalizing and enabling as a society.

[joeychitwood]

Originally posted by Kevomac
BTW joeychitwood, I love your avatar! Is that you? If I told you, I'd have to kill you!

[BrianD]

Joey, about time we find something we totally disagree on. Life was getting boring.

[sammystingray]

Kevomac, I have no idea what offended you about what I said??? I meant every word. I also MEANT, and made no mistake when I posted that someone just died within the last couple days here over a stomach staple. I am a bigot to no man, yeah it's easy to say, and I won't bother trying to prove it.

Honesty is sometimes given bluntly, and here it is.....

I honestly do believe it is 80% will power, 10% environment, and 10% heredity.

Gastric bypass surgeries were mentioned in todays paper, so what gives?? Is something going on that I'm missing? why did this topic appear the same time that the papers here are running articles about this stuff?? What's up that made this a hot topic?

[despot101]

With all these statistics saying that most of the country is overweight, has anyone ever looked at what is considered overweight. If you are 5'11" and weight 190lbs. You are overweight. 5'11" and 200lbs your obese.

I read on some health site yesterday that according to the governements numbers on what qualifies as overweight and obese. Russel Crowe and Tom Cruise were both listed as obese. Thats crazy.
As has always been the case this country cares too much about the looks of everyone else. How can anyone judge another person for getting their stomach stapled unless they have been there. Also how can anyone that has not been overweight claim it to be all your choice and have little to do the genetics. (Having a beer belly and switching to light beer to lose 10lbs doesnt count as being overweight, and losing it.)

[joeychitwood]

Originally posted by BrianD
Joey, about time we find something we totally disagree on. Life was getting boring. BrianD, you ignorant sl*t!

I speak from the experience of being addicted to drugs from age 19 to 32. Many of my obese friends relate the same kind of powerlessness over eating that I experienced over drugs and alcohol. It's just an opinion held by the medical profession.

Maybe fat people should be going to their CPA's instead of their doctors for help!

YESSSS!!!! WOW, that felt gooood! :D

[Kevomac]

Sammy stingray

Read my last post to see why this is a such a hot topic. If you've never been obese, you have no way of knowing how opinions such as yours contribute so heavily to prejudice against people of size. As I stated before, discrimination against overweight people, like that against homosexuals, seems to be last acceptable form of prejudice in our society.

Forgive me, I said I wasn't going to post again, but I've noticed that those who disagree with me the most have been sticking to their opinions without answering any of the specific arguments I made. At the risk of stirring the whole debate up again, I'd like to hear from anyone who wants to debate my argument instead of simply contradicting it. This is getting way out of hand isn't it? I've got to stop checking this thread and get back to work.

joeychtiwood: I take it that's a yes? Having a good sense of humor, especially about ourselves, is one of the best gifts that one can have in this world.

[jimwat]

JazzMan - Congratulations on your loss! :thumbsup: But if you do some research you will find that your experience is the exception, not the rule. Here's an analogy - if a diabetic if able to control their blood sugar by following a strict diet, should they try to encourage other diabetics to do the same? Yes. Should they tell other diabetics that if do not throw out their insulin, that they are weak? Probably not.

[BrianD]

Joey, you know what they say about opinions ;)

[jimwat]

Does it seem like BrianD has a fixation with one area of the human anatomy? :D

Sigmund Freud discribed this - "The anal stage of motivational development is characterized by the child's central area of bodily concern in the rectum..." :lol:

[sammystingray]

Kevomac, if you find that my posts are prejudice, that's cool, of course I disagree.

You don't want drug addiction brought into it as a comparison, but you don't feel that sexual preference and being over weight are apples and oranges? :rolleyes: You really have to be kidding with that one. You are comparing lack of effort with something that can't be changed. The drug addiction compares much more closely.

I quit heroin five years ago.......ever curled up in a ball and puked on yourself because you couldn't have a piece of cake? Ever sold things you love to get a cookie?

Well, I just deleted a page long reply, because I am actually tired of arguing. I really meant no offense, and if my thoughts are offensive, so be it. The way a human body works at this level seems pretty much understood in my opinion. I simply refuse to believe that anyone can NOT lose weight if they really really tried....that makes no sense. If it's not willpower that fails, then it's supernatural forces.

I do wish you the best of luck.

[jimwat]

The way a human body works at this level seems pretty much understood in my opinionGreat!! Shut down the 30 billion dollar industry, stop all of the biochemical, genetics (etc. etc.) research in the area of obesity, because sammy has it all figured out. :rolleye1:

[sammystingray]

I give up.......so I suppose that intake and usage mean nothing, and exercise is a waste of time.....what was I thinking? If you are overweight, don't bother trying because jimwat believes that you are destined to be how you are. end of story.

"Shut down the 30 billion dollar industry"

yeah, a 30 billion dollar industry based on morons who look for nothing more than a way to lose weight without actually having to do anything. Instead of belittling my thoughts, sure, lets hear your new way of thinking......please, enlighten us as to why eating less and using more of what you do eat through excercise will not cause weight loss. Eat less, exercise more.....how can anyone actually argue against this?

[sammystingray]

Oooooops I forgot the :rolleye1:

Basically you slammed me for no reason?????? I'm going to bed now, so please, explain your thoughts on how exercising anmd eating less has no effect. I'll post tommorrow.

[BrianD]

Nope, not on this thread. I started this mess, and now I will end it before people get too mad.

Off to steal Joey's Twinkies before he eats them all.